SGC grading standards

[MichelaiTorres83]

I have observed 2 things that I am wondering if others have seen.

Does it seem like SGC has upped its standards on mid grade card corners? There was a group of cards that looked like they were in holders one grade under what they should have been if graded before this new roll out they have been working on.

I forget where I saw the cards, but they were mid to higher grade HOF players.

The other strange thing is their banner on here toting a new price record increase of a whopping 100 dollars. Does this seem like a shift to fight off PSA and their falling card prices?

They seem to go hand in hand.

[rats60]

Since when? I graded a bunch of t205s at the 2015 National. I thought the grades were strict but fair and even a few of the HOFers I thought were under graded. I sent the cards that didn't meet my minimum grade of 5 to PSA. Most came back 4 or 4.5, but I got a few 5/5.5 and 1 6.

[Throttlesteer]

Overall, SGC and PSA seem to be getting stricter. But, it will always be one person's opinion.

[MichelaiTorres83]

The green cobb sgc 4 in pwcc
The cobb bat sgc 5.5 in pwcc
The bat on sov 150 sgc 4 in pwcc
The evers portrait sgc 4 in heritage
The red cobb old mill sgc 4.5 in pwcc
The red cobb sgc 4 piedmont 460 in pwcc

The list goes on. Those are just examples.

[Throttlesteer]

The green cobb sgc 4 in pwcc
The cobb bat sgc 5.5 in pwcc
The bat on sov 150 sgc 4 in pwcc
The evers portrait sgc 4 in heritage
The red cobb old mill sgc 4.5 in pwcc
The red cobb sgc 4 piedmont 460 in pwcc

The list goes on. Those are just examples.

PWCC and Heritage may not be the best yardstick for the rest of the hobby. I realize higher grade green Cobbs are getting rarer outside of AHs. But, both mentioned always seem to command premiums, regardless of TPG. They also get examples that are superior for the grade.

[MichelaiTorres83]

My post was not about the prices. The auction house is irrelevant. There is simply a large percentage of cards that would appear to be under graded compared to hundreds of other examples, maybe even a thousand.

They are all of a sudden showing up in bulk?

[Throttlesteer]

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post. The AHs are relevant because all of the examples you identified came from either PWCC or Heritage. They are both known for selling "undergraded" or superior examples for their respective grade (hence why they fetch bigger $$$$). I think the jury is still out on SGC as a whole. But, the common thought is both SGC and PSA are becoming tougher regardless of grading tier. In another thread, I mentioned that many cards with the recent SGC and latest-generation PSA holders seem to be .5-1.0 grades lower than older generation holders. Many new VG cards would easily have fetched a 4 a few years back. Check out the T206 Johnson Portrait PSA 3 on Ebay right now. Tell me if you think that has a shot-in-hell chance of getting that grade today.

Both PSA and SGC can cherry pick a specific auction result to try and boost their individual market reputations. But, I haven't seen any evidence that SGC is consistently outselling PSA. It's undoubtedly what they're trying to portray (per your second point).

I will also note that there are a large number of re-holders (identified by their cert #) showing up, banking on your observation.

[MichelaiTorres83]

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders? You only think PWCC got these under graded items in bulk and didn’t high end sticker them?

Again, price and auction has no part in my question, just holder, grade and card quality.

[rats60]

My post was not about the prices. The auction house is irrelevant. There is simply a large percentage of cards that would appear to be under graded compared to hundreds of other examples, maybe even a thousand.

They are all of a sudden showing up in bulk?

Under graded or look under graded compared to previously over graded cards? I think it is the later. I see very few cards that are under graded, but lots of over graded cards (in old holders?).

[Throttlesteer]

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders? You only think PWCC got these under graded items in bulk and didn’t high end sticker them?

I agree with your timeline. I think PSA realized the change with the pyramid holders. I do believe SGC is applying stricter standards since the new holder and website redesign. It does seem like they're trying to rebrand in hopes of competing with PSA's perceived quality. The AHs may skew the perception a bit, even with non-stickered submissions.

[MichelaiTorres83]

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

[CW]

Yes. There was a shift to harder grades from PSA a while back and no matching shift from SGC. That is why their prices plummeted in comparison.

You don’t think there has now been a shift in SGC to tougher grades based on everything listed in one of their new holders?

I realize the question here wasn't addressed to me, but I would like to comment and give my educated opinion on these statements.

I disagree that there was no "matching shift" by SGC in their grading standards. While any collector's observations will be a small sample compared to all the cards out there, I noticed SGC toughening up on grading at least a couple years before these new holders were introduced. This would be especially pertaining to their grading on corners.

Many years ago you would find SGC 5s with corners that were too rounded for an "EX" graded card. SGC became tougher graders on these cards, knocking them down to VG-EX and lower starting a few years ago. At least this was my perception.

Also, I don't believe SGC's prices ever "plummeted" in comparison to PSA. Sure, SGC always lagged behind in pricing with cards of the same grade compared to PSA, but on the cards I follow (prewar) I have not witnessed any plummeting prices on SGC graded cards compared to PSA.

To answer your final question, yes, I have seen a shift to harder grading by SGC but it has been quite awhile before the change to the new holders.

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[Leon]

I feel SGC standards have stayed around the same but I agree that the grading of corners has tightened up nicely (a bit stricter). SGC is still my choice of graders, even before they advertised. :) That said, I don't always agree with them and we can agree to disagree on some things. But they and BVG are my graders of choice. I don't generally have high grade material but if I did I would have to look at PSA; for their registry.

[ricktmd]

I collect mostly PSA 5 cards. Over the last 4 years I put together a T206 HOF set. My most obvious point which reflects in previous posts is the corners. SGC consistently graded T206's with touched (slightly rounded ) corners a 60/5. PSA is stricter with that as ones with rounded corners end up 4's possibly 4.5's . I bought many SGC 60's with slightly rounded corners that didn't cross. My guess and its just a guess is that most PSA 5's would cross to SGC 60's and only maybe half of the SGC 60's become PSA 5's. I am glad to hear that SGC is being tougher on corners as it makes sense. However they seem to be holding the course on lightly collected S-74 silks . The hand out 40's to near perfect silks with the factory crease and 60's to horribly frayed silks where the factory or tobacco company is only partially legible. On Leon's point BVG has become better. They do a nice job with the S-74 silks apparently understanding the issue better than SGC

On another note the recent trend of centered nicer looking cards holding as much weight as their grades may be inspiring people to sell there off centered , or lesser looking higher grade cards as a result

[Republicaninmass]

So there has not been any change at SGC regarding centering?

They used to grade the card, independent of centering, not anymore. A psa 7 oc/mc would be an sgc 6 at worst. Now they told me my psa 7 mc would get an sgc 2!

[sfh24]

Does SGC do a quicker turn than PSA? My last submission to PSA took several months to receive.

[bobbyw8469]

Does SGC do a quicker turn than PSA? My last submission to PSA took several months to receive.

I believe all graders are pretty backed up now.

[luciobar1980]

I definitely think SGC upped their standards with the introduction of their new labels. I mean it makes sense. They wanted to rebrand and up the perceived value.

[RedsFan1941]

Does SGC do a quicker turn than PSA? My last submission to PSA took several months to receive.

yes

[bnorth]

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

In modern cards I have noticed the opposite. I am a huge SGC fan but have seen several highly over graded modern cards with the new black label.:(

[whitehse]

The black label cards appear to have harder grading standards when compared to SGC grading standards during their green label phase, excluding reholdered cards, prices and auction house.

Does that clear it up?

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago after getting some cards back from SGC. I was disappointed with the grades in that I didn't expect to get 8's or better but when compared to other cards that SGC graded, I was hoping for better than I received.

The old flip picture is images I pulled from eBay with the new flips being the cards I just received back. There is no doubt they tightened their standards on grading especially when it comes to corners.

Why the pics are showing up sideways I have no idea.

[bobbyw8469]

You need to get those cards out of those slabs and sent them to PSA.

[rats60]

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago after getting some cards back from SGC. I was disappointed with the grades in that I didn't expect to get 8's or better but when compared to other cards that SGC graded, I was hoping for better than I received.

The old flip picture is images I pulled from eBay with the new flips being the cards I just received back. There is no doubt they tightened their standards on grading especially when it comes to corners.

Why the pics are showing up sideways I have no idea.

Those older slabs are over graded, but when were they graded? 20 years ago? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? or recently?

[whitehse]

You need to get those cards out of those slabs and sent them to PSA.

No doubt. I was thinking the same thing but honestly I was scared off by the reports of a nearly one year waiting period for the return of my cards! I am not sure if that was rumor or if there has been a change in the waiting period times.

[whitehse]

Those older slabs are over graded, but when were they graded? 20 years ago? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? or recently?

Not sure if there is a way to tell. I had seen these older graded cards and had assumes they were over graded but I thought my cards had a great chance to at least be one grade up from the older cards I had seen.

[T205 GB]

Funny that I didn't see anywhere in here where SGC's new program for grading was mentioned. Could that be the cause? I think rebranding your image with a program that doesn't work properly could be part of the issue but what do I know. They obviously have the issues figured out from the face plant at National. I have no clue how any of that stuff is supposed to work but I am giving an opinion anyway in hopes to solve this mystery of why SGC grading standards have varied so much recently.

[Lorewalker]

PSA's grading standards have varied from week to week...maybe day to day. Yet people continue to submit and resubmit and accept it. SGC has been the one constant on the grading front however it would appear, in trying to rebrand themselves, they have tightened up their standards. Hopefully that works out for them but from the cards I have been seeing with the new labels, they seemed to have over corrected.