Not the only Hall of Fame getting Watered Down

[Shoeless Moe]

Janice Jackson, The Cure, Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, Roxy Music and the Zombies are the 2019 Class for the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.


The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.


and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????


Who's next.....White Lion, Dexys Midnight Runners, Billy Ray Cyrus.

[Stampsfan]

I have to say when I heard that earlier, I thought about the HOF discussion going on here.

Seems like the RRHOF is as watered down as one can get. Forget 3,000 hits, you only need a couple of hits to get into the RRHOF.

[riggs336]

"Losing" nominees included John Prine, MC5 and Todd Rundgren.

[moeson]

Pat Benatar somehow doesn't even get nominated:

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/night_and_day/jennings-benatar-deserving-of-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/article_d50fbfc4-2905-5edb-89c8-d35726d727ee.html

[ullmandds]

was talking about pat benatar at work today...we all assumed she was in...certainly should be!!!!

[Lordstan]

Ha. It took Rush, Moody Blues, and Yes years to get into RRHOF and now they let these in? Plus the RRHOF seems to be admitting pretty much anyone even peripherally related to RR. Last year or so was Nina Simone. Not in any way takjng away from her recognition, but she was not a RR artist. R&B, Soul, and Blues might all be better descriptors. Perhaps a separate HOF for those artists is needed.

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[gabrinus]

It took Deep Purple years to get in...it's a joke....

[Orioles1954]

The very notion of a "Hall of Fame" for an art with hundreds of genres is so ******* stupid. I'm into mostly britpop/indie, punk, post-punk, etc. Absolutely hate 1970s rock music. Many people are just the opposite. Sports halls of fame are based on interpretation of hard numbers. Music is quite the opposite. By the way, The Cure and The Zombies are awesome.

[KingFisk]

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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[BobC]

and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all. :)

[Klrdds]

I agree the RRHOF is getting watered down . I can never recall when their class had less than 5 inductees. After awhile you'll get watered down doing that because there can only be so many worthy people to induct until you start inducting peripheral artists and associated groups, singers , etc...

[Orioles1954]

Any Hall of Fame without The Smiths is not worthy to stand.

[JollyElm]

Come on now, The Cure was one of the most preeminent bands of the new wave era and they have a huge amount of great material.

Robert Smith was featured on South Park some time way back when. Cracked me up:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=south+park+disintegration+quote&&view=detail&mid=D6778B5AC15E4CC237CAD6778B5AC15E4CC237CA&&FORM=VRDGAR

"Disintegration is the best album ever..."

[frankbmd]

Is Harold Baines in the Rock & Roll HOF yet?

He had a few hits.

[BobC]

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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In 2005, Tim de Lisle of The Guardian argued that Roxy Music are the second most influential British band after the Beatles. He wrote, "Somehow, in a landscape dominated by Led Zeppelin at one end and the Osmonds at the other, they managed to reach the Top 10 with a heady mixture of futurism, retro rock'n'roll, camp, funny noises, silly outfits, art techniques, film references and oboe solos. And although their popularity has ebbed and flowed, their influence has been strikingly consistent."[9]

Madness are among the artists that have cited Roxy Music as an influence.[47] They paid tribute to Bryan Ferry in the song "4BF" (the title is a reference to the song "2HB", itself a tribute to Humphrey Bogart from the first Roxy Music album).

In 1997, John Taylor of Duran Duran produced the tribute album Dream Home Heartaches... Remaking/Remodeling Roxy Music. The compilation features Taylor as well as Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode) and Low Pop Suicide, among others.

The earliest incarnation of the band that would eventually become Sex Pistols was called The Strand, after "Do The Strand", the opening song from Roxy Music's second album, For Your Pleasure.

The electronic band Ladytron took their name from the title of a song from Roxy Music's debut album.[48]

An antagonist character in the videogame Final Fight named Roxy (a female acrobatic fighter) is named after the band, as well as other enemy characters in the game that pay homage to someone or something related to music, like her identical partner Poison.

These are just some of the credits and influences Roxy Music had on the music world. They are a European band more than anything else, and therefore not always as well known or recognized in the U.S. Roxy Music deserves to be in the RRHOF for their album covers alone!!!!!!!

Now if the Rock Hall could only get their you-know-what together and look at Hawkwind also, then you'd get some more respect!

[barrysloate]

I thought the same exact thing when I heard who got in this year. There is pressure for any HOF to keep inducting new members on a yearly basis. That's their biggest event of the year, so as time passes the list of inductees gets watered down. I'm not a big fan of any Hall of Fame. Come on folks, Def Leppard?

[milkit1]

Amen! BOB C


QUOTE=BobC;1835712]and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all. :)[/QUOTE]

[Throttlesteer]

I thought the same exact thing when I heard who got in this year. There is pressure for any HOF to keep inducting new members on a yearly basis. That's their biggest event of the year, so as time passes the list of inductees gets watered down. I'm not a big fan of any Hall of Fame. Come on folks, Def Leppard?

They have a top 100 best-selling album of all time. Def Leppard has outsold Stevie Wonder, the Who, David Bowie, and the Beach Boys. Like it or not, they probably belong. The problem is, music is more opinion beyond the sales numbers. I can't stand Jay-Z, but he's sold a ton of music and made millions. The Baseball HOF can lean on statistics, but it still has a number of people inducted because of popularity.

[rats60]

In 2005, Tim de Lisle of The Guardian argued that Roxy Music are the second most influential British band after the Beatles. He wrote, "Somehow, in a landscape dominated by Led Zeppelin at one end and the Osmonds at the other, they managed to reach the Top 10 with a heady mixture of futurism, retro rock'n'roll, camp, funny noises, silly outfits, art techniques, film references and oboe solos. And although their popularity has ebbed and flowed, their influence has been strikingly consistent."[9]

Madness are among the artists that have cited Roxy Music as an influence.[47] They paid tribute to Bryan Ferry in the song "4BF" (the title is a reference to the song "2HB", itself a tribute to Humphrey Bogart from the first Roxy Music album).

In 1997, John Taylor of Duran Duran produced the tribute album Dream Home Heartaches... Remaking/Remodeling Roxy Music. The compilation features Taylor as well as Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode) and Low Pop Suicide, among others.

The earliest incarnation of the band that would eventually become Sex Pistols was called The Strand, after "Do The Strand", the opening song from Roxy Music's second album, For Your Pleasure.

The electronic band Ladytron took their name from the title of a song from Roxy Music's debut album.[48]

An antagonist character in the videogame Final Fight named Roxy (a female acrobatic fighter) is named after the band, as well as other enemy characters in the game that pay homage to someone or something related to music, like her identical partner Poison.

These are just some of the credits and influences Roxy Music had on the music world. They are a European band more than anything else, and therefore not always as well known or recognized in the U.S. Roxy Music deserves to be in the RRHOF for their album covers alone!!!!!!!

Now if the Rock Hall could only get their you-know-what together and look at Hawkwind also, then you'd get some more respect!

And you didn't even mention Brian Eno and his influence on David Bowie, Talking Heads and U2's music among many others.

[Fred]

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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Not one of my top 5, but I think they should be in. Don't forget about Bryan Ferry.

It's really not a R&R HOF. It's a MUSIC HOF. R&R, R&B, c-RAP, etc are all genres represented.

For those of you waiting for the Todd Rundgrens and Pat Benetars (and others) to be enshrined, perhaps you'll have to wait for the RRHOF Veterans Committee to meet and give them their due entry.

What about Tit Wrench... :p

[BobC]

And you didn't even mention Brian Eno and his influence on David Bowie, Talking Heads and U2's music among many others.

Shouldn't have to, but you're right. Used to stay up late nights and listen to songs of theirs here in Cleveland on the then progressive FM station WMMS, long before they ever made it big. And again, just check out the album covers!!!!!

[KingFisk]

I am also excited about Roxy getting in because I feel like a lot of folks are now going to check them out, and get to experience them for the first time, beyond Love is the Drug or More Than This. Bryan Ferry is a treasure as a singer (a voice on another spiritual plane) and songwriter (does it get any better than Mother of Pearl?). He's been making magic happen for a very long time, glad to see him getting his due stateside.

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[BobC]

I am also excited about Roxy getting in because I feel like a lot of folks are now going to check them out, and get to experience them for the first time, beyond Love is the Drug or More Than This. Bryan Ferry is a treasure as a singer (a voice on another spiritual plane) and songwriter (does it get any better than Mother of Pearl?). He's been making magic happen for a very long time, glad to see him getting his due stateside.

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Mother of Pearl is one of my all-time favorite songs, couldn't agree more. And Both Ends Burning is also one great tune, amongst all the others.

Now like I mentioned before, they need to start looking at Hawkwind for induction!!!!

[Bram99]

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?


http://mascothalloffame.com

[JollyElm]

One of my best ever "random music pickups" (as I like to call them) was grabbing Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music “Street Life” 20 Greatest Hits in a discount bin in the 90's. Like everyone else, I knew the hits from the "Avalon" album and a couple of other things, but songs like "Oh Yeah (On The Radio)" and "Over You" were new to me and jumped right out.

(For anybody who cares, two others great random pickups were Alice in Chains "Nothing Safe: Best Of The Box" and The Alarm's EP "Electric Folklore Live.")

[Chris Counts]

I'd take the Cure over Harold Baines.

[JLange]

"Disintegration is the best album ever..."

+1

[clydepepper]

Is Harold Baines in the Rock & Roll HOF yet?

He had a few hits.



how 'bout Ike Turner :(


sorry...had to...



=

[2dueces]

Janet Jackson? Really? Over Pat Benetar? Really?

[Paul S]

Is there a GAR algorithm (Groups Against Replacement), so we can compare across genres? Or is it a alg:prhythm. I get so messed up with it all.

[Jim65]

When Madonna gets in before Rush, YES and the Moody Blues, do you really need more proof how stupid the RRHOF is?

[icollectDCsports]

If you're not familiar with Roxy Music, it's worth checking them out. They were a great band. Saw Brian Ferry in concert around 2000, and he put on a great show.

[BobC]

When Madonna gets in before Rush, YES and the Moody Blues, do you really need more proof how stupid the RRHOF is?

Saw Rush in a local Cleveland bar back in '74 I believe. Definitely belong in the hall.

[irv]

When Madonna gets in before Rush, YES and the Moody Blues, do you really need more proof how stupid the RRHOF is?

My thoughts exactly and I've thought this for years. Way too many good/deserving bands that aren't in yet but other, far less deserving ones are. :mad:

Truthfully, I pay very little attention to the RHOF anymore nor do I follow who is getting in.
That was all lost when I heard about Madonna and yet bands like Jethro Tull, The Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, T Rex, Pat Benatar to name a few, haven't even been considered yet.

John Prine is an amazing artist and songwriter who has influenced more bands/artists than we'll ever know. Snubbing him only proves, once again, they have no idea what they are doing.

The RHOF is nothing but a joke, imo.

[tjb1952tjb]

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?


http://mascothalloffame.com

The San Diego Chicken..............

[Kenny Cole]

The very notion of a "Hall of Fame" for an art with hundreds of genres is so ******* stupid. I'm into mostly britpop/indie, punk, post-punk, etc. Absolutely hate 1970s rock music. Many people are just the opposite. Sports halls of fame are based on interpretation of hard numbers. Music is quite the opposite. By the way, The Cure and The Zombies are awesome.

Wow. So wrong in so many ways. To each their own, but I would say that the late 60's and most of the 70's owned rock. For the most part, with some exceptions, I think the 80's and 90"s are a musical wasteland in that regard. I can't comment beyond that because I don't willingly listen to that stuff. Also disagree with your interpretation of what sports hofs are, or should be. There is much more to it than that IMO.

[Baseball Rarities]

The Cure and Roxy Music are both very deserving IMHO. I agree that it has become more of a Pop Music HOF than and RnR HOF though.

[commishbob]

Dammmit, I love Nina Simone :)


But your point is taken.

[doug.goodman]

I'm a metalhead, and I don't understand how Def Leppard made it. I saw them open for Blackfoot.

And Bon Jovi? Ugh.

And fucking Radiohead? Seriously?

[insidethewrapper]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the "Guess Who" and "Tommy James" are in the Hall of Fame and they had several hits.

Slim Whitman must be in the Hall of Fame, the advertisements stated he sold more records than The Beatles.

[mr2686]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the "Guess Who" and "Tommy James" are in the Hall of Fame and they had several hits.

Slim Whitman must be in the Hall of Fame, the advertisements stated he sold more records than The Beatles.

Tommy James and the Shondells had two number one hits and 14 top 40 hits, and they're not in the hall. They've also had a number of their songs covered including Billy Idol's Mony Mony, and Joan Jett Crimson in Clover. If that's not enough, then take a listen to Draggin the Line while driving with the top down in summer, and try to tell me that it's not one of the greatest songs of all time. Damn, I'm up way too early drinking coffee. LOL

[silvor]

I'm a metalhead, and I don't understand how Def Leppard made it. I saw them open for Blackfoot.

Hysteria. That album was HUGE. I believe that tour they played 2 nights in pretty much every city.

[barrysloate]

I'm a cranky old-timer. Give me Jefferson Airplane or Buffalo Springfield and I'm a happy camper. Forget anything post-1970. I want the Sixties!!

[ejharrington]

The fact that KISS had to wait 20 years to get in proves what a joke the R&R HOF is. The only time I have ever been disappointed with Gene and Paul are when they accepted the nomination. I wanted them to give the R&R HOF the Johnny Rotten treatment.

[MVSNYC]

The Cure are awesome, and very deserving.

New Order & Depeche Mode should be there too.

The above, are all very prolific, and incredibly influential bands. All of which have been making albums for almost 40 years.


PS...

Whether you agree with Ice Cube or not...this was a pretty powerful statement...

"Rock & roll is not an instrument; rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. … It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and, yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. …Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life."

-Ice Cube, during N.W.A.'s 2016 Rock Hall induction acceptance speech

[Leon]

I'm a cranky old-timer. Give me Jefferson Airplane or Buffalo Springfield and I'm a happy camper. Forget anything post-1970. I want the Sixties!!

+1 to Buffalo Springfield. And I saw Jefferson Starship Introducing Grace Slick, at the Hollywood Bowl Amphitheater. That might have been the best concert I have ever seen next to REO Speedwagon in Anaheim in 1980. And Jethro Tull, what an artist!!

[barrysloate]

+1 to Buffalo Springfield. And I saw Jefferson Starship Introducing Grace Slick, at the Hollywood Bowl Amphitheater. That might have been the best concert I have ever seen next to REO Speedwagon in Anaheim in 1980. And Jethro Tull, what an artist!!

I'm more an Airplane fan than a Starship one, probably a reflection of our age difference.:)

[Leon]

I'm more an Airplane fan than a Starship one, probably a reflection of our age difference.:)

But they "introduced" Grace and all of them gave an unforgettable performance. Of course it didn't hurt that I was in the right state of mind for White Rabbit :).

[Snapolit1]

Problem with RNR HOF is there is no real definition of Rock and Roll. I have my definition and you have yours. I certainly wouldn't put someone like Janet Jackson in a million years in the RNR Hall of Fame. Or Michael Jackson for that matter. Soul, R&B, whatever but certainly not rock and roll.

[Orioles1954]

The Cure are awesome, and very deserving.

New Order & Depeche Mode should be there too.

The above, are all very prolific, and incredibly influential bands. All of which have been making albums for almost 40 years.


PS...

Whether you agree with Ice Cube or not...this was a pretty powerful statement...

"Rock & roll is not an instrument; rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. … It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and, yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. …Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life."

-Ice Cube, during N.W.A.'s 2016 Rock Hall induction acceptance speech


+1....don't forget The Smiths

[Orioles1954]

Wow. So wrong in so many ways. To each their own, but I would say that the late 60's and most of the 70's owned rock. For the most part, with some exceptions, I think the 80's and 90"s are a musical wasteland in that regard. I can't comment beyond that because I don't willingly listen to that stuff. Also disagree with your interpretation of what sports hofs are, or should be. There is much more to it than that IMO.


Just one man's opinion. Rock was at its most creative in the late 50s and culminated with the British Invasion. With few exceptions (Hendrix), mainstream rock became so boring as the decades went along. Thankfully, in response to the mainstream, there is always a creative underground to help move things forward. Unfortunately, such subcultures are seldom represented in such a "Hall of Fame." Roxy Music is great.

[ajquigs]

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

Indeed.
The R&R HOF is a joke. Roxy Music ... not so much.
To me, it's a pretty decent museum. Even it doesn't seem to take the physical "Hall" seriously.

[darwinbulldog]

My thoughts exactly and I've thought this for years. Way too many good/deserving bands that aren't in yet but other, far less deserving ones are. :mad:

Truthfully, I pay very little attention to the RHOF anymore nor do I follow who is getting in.
That was all lost when I heard about Madonna and yet bands like Jethro Tull, The Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, T Rex, Pat Benatar to name a few, haven't even been considered yet.

John Prine is an amazing artist and songwriter who has influenced more bands/artists than we'll ever know. Snubbing him only proves, once again, they have no idea what they are doing.

The RHOF is nothing but a joke, imo.

I'm signing on with a ditto to everyone on your snub list.

[irv]

Problem with RNR HOF is there is no real definition of Rock and Roll. I have my definition and you have yours. I certainly wouldn't put someone like Janet Jackson in a million years in the RNR Hall of Fame. Or Michael Jackson for that matter. Soul, R&B, whatever but certainly not rock and roll.

I agree with that a 100%! Madonna, Janet Jackson and many others are not R&R, imo.

Not that I disagree that they aren't deserving of some type of honor, its just that the R&R HOF isn't the place for them.

[barrysloate]

But they "introduced" Grace and all of them gave an unforgettable performance. Of course it didn't hurt that I was in the right state of mind for White Rabbit :).

White Rabbit is all about that state of mind.:)

[darwinbulldog]

I'm a metalhead, and I don't understand how Def Leppard made it. I saw them open for Blackfoot.

And Bon Jovi? Ugh.

And fucking Radiohead? Seriously?


You can insult my mom, or my kids, or my wife, and no hard feelings, but don't you ever talk about Radiohead that way. You've just made a moderately powerful enemy.

[DaveW]

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?

http://mascothalloffame.com

So, does Charlie the Tuna qualify as a Mascot - if so, he’s definately in. Or is
he more of a spokesfish?

[drcy]

I'm a Cure fan, but, to be honest, it makes no difference to me if they are in a Hall or not. They were an alternative band. Being elected members of a Hall of Fame would be totally against what was the intent and philosophy of an anti-establishment band like the Sex Pistols. And if you've ever heard an interview of Robert Smith, you'd know he'd be the first to scoff at the idea of being elected to a music Hall of Fame. You should hear what he said about the British Royalty and Royal titles when someone asked if he would ever be knighted.

But, if there is a deserving band, Roxy Music would be one. I'm surprised there's a debate about that and was surprised to learn they weren't already elected.

But, to each his own, and, as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I see the merits of a Rock and Roll museum, but an elected Rock and Roll "Hall of Fame" always seemed like a dumb idea on its very face to me. No doubt it was concocted at least in part to make money (sell tickets). Thus, whether or not my favorite bands are members of a dumb idea makes no difference to me. In fact, if I had to choose, I'd prefer they not be members.

But yes, I also saw the point (and humor) of the initial post that the first wave included bands such as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Elvis Presley, and now its The Cure and Def Leppard. Whether or not I am a fan of The Cure and Roxy Music, I won't argue that it appears that they running low on bands. It may become a common running joke after a few more elections. Someone in Cleveland may be trying to figure out how they can elect The Beatles and Elvis a second time.

One problem with many Halls of Fame, including MLB and Rock and Roll, is they feel compelled to elect someone each year no matter what. But they won't do that because the inductions are money making events. It would of course be refreshing if the Baseball or Rock HOF, or Nobel Prize committee, would occasionally say "Sorry, no one deserving this year." But the Cleveland and Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce wouldn't like that. After retirement, Mickey Mantle said he became wary of awards because he deduced that most of them were attempts to get him to attend their dinner or event.

[Orioles1954]

i'm a cure fan, but, to be honest, it makes no difference to me if they are in a hall or not. They were an alternative band. Being elected members of a hall of fame would be totally against what was the intent and philosophy of an anti-establishment band like the sex pistols. And if you've ever heard an interview of robert smith, you'd know he'd be the first to scoff at the idea of being elected to a music hall of fame. You should hear what he said about the british royalty and royal titles when someone asked if he would ever be knighted.

But, if there is a deserving band, roxy music would be one. I'm surprised there's a debate about that and was surprised to learn they weren't already elected.

But, to each his own, and, as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, i see the merits of a rock and roll museum, but an elected rock and roll "hall of fame" always seemed like a dumb idea on its very face to me. No doubt it was concocted at least in part to make money (sell tickets). Thus, whether or not my favorite bands are members of a dumb idea makes no difference to me. In fact, if i had to choose, i'd prefer they not be members.

One problem with many halls of fame, including mlb and rock and roll, is the feel compelled (= $$$) to elect someone each year no matter what. Of course it would be refreshing if the baseball hall of fame or nobel prize would say "sorry, no one deserving this year."

but yes, i also saw the point (and humor) of the initial post that the first wave included bands such as the beatles, the rolling stones and elvis presley, and now its the cure and def leppard.

+1,000,000

[Promethius88]

Janice Jackson, The Cure, Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, Roxy Music and the Zombies are the 2019 Class for the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.


The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.


and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????


Who's next.....White Lion, Dexys Midnight Runners, Billy Ray Cyrus.

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!
Instead of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they should just rename it to the Music Hall of Fame or something more generic. I don't have a problem with some of these influential artists going in as their music may have meant so much to a certain generation or group of people. We aren't going to like or agree with all of them but we all have individual tastes, and that's ok. There was no legit reason for it to take so long for Rush or the Moody Blues to get in....two of my favorite bands and no arguing that they are legends in the industry.
Was in Cleveland for one of the Nationals and stopped by. Very interesting place with a lot of cool stuff. I don't think it is still there, but there was a reggae museum in Long Beach at one time down by the Queen Mary. Checked that out and was interviewed by some Jamaican music reporters. That was an amazing eye opening experience. First that I realized how political Bob Marley actually was. I'm sure they scrubbed my interview. Pretty sure I sounded like an idiot!!

[chalupacollects]

It's not a true RRHoF until Rick Springfield can get in without paying ! lol :D

[JollyElm]

The Hall of Fame in Cooperstown is Mt. Rushmore, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland is just a rocky (pun intended) hill. Musical tastes are completely individual and run the gamut from yodelers to death metal. There's never going to be any sort of consensus as to whom or what deserves to be honored in a Hall of Fame celebrating sounds. (There are a heckuva lot of bands, singers, etc., in this thread alone that make me think, "Who would ever listen to them??!!," but that's life, whatever floats your boat.)
Cleveland should probably be more accurately called 'The Hall of Musical Appreciation,' and then a lot of the contention would abate.

[drmondobueno]

Pat Benatar somehow doesn't even get nominated:

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/night_and_day/jennings-benatar-deserving-of-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame/article_d50fbfc4-2905-5edb-89c8-d35726d727ee.html

Warren Zevon has no prayer.

[Shoeless Moe]

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!

Whoops....at least I got The Cured, Roxie Muzak and Deaf Leppard correct.

[callou2131]

I went to the RRHOF last year on vacation and was very disappointed. It was neat, but there is so much actual Rock and roll missing while other genres fill rooms. The fact that Iron Maiden, who has influenced so many, and sold 90 million albums with little to know air play has never even been on the ballot is telling. Stevie nicks gets in for the second time, wile Pat Benatar is left off the ballot. And i dont listen to rap, but since they do allow it in there, it is a travesty that LL cool J Has been snubbed by the voters. he was one of the first rap solo artists, has been doing it since 1983, and still does. he is still relevant 35 years later. He has received the Kennedy Center Honors. Public Enemy is in, The Beastie boys are in, Run DMC is in, NWA and Tupac are in. There is only one of the Originals missing and that is LL.

[drcy]

Having a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like having a Food Hall of Fame. Even if the hot dog or jello or baked Alaska is elected, what is the point and significance, including to the food and the fan of the food? Is a hot dog better because it's a member of the Food Hall of Fame? A Hall of Fame is a bizarre metric.

If you judge or justify the music of The Beatles or Madonna or (fill in the blank) based on whether they are in a private for-profit Hall of Fame, I'd say you have a strange view of music that I can't relate to. To me, a band being a member of the Hall of Fame has nothing to do with nothing.

Duly note that I like bands that both are in and will never ever be in the "Hall," from The Beatles and Led Zeppelin to Discharge and The Television Personalities ("Who?").

[Kenny Cole]

White Rabbit is all about that state of mind.:)

Indeed. That is the only possible way you can understand it.

[JollyElm]

I started a thread in the post-war water cooler section for anyone looking to post play lists/songs they love, but other people may not be aware of. Like a clueless jeweler, check it out if you got some gems you want to freely share.

[Shoeless Moe]

Early Pearl Jam




THEE Best jam session/concert/tv show whatever EVER!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdeNbKeXAw


Eddie with the backwards baseball hat was the shiznit!




.....and THEE best version of ALIVE!





actually every frickin' song is a HOME RUN! and not a cheap one in the lot.

[drcy]

Eddie Vedder lives in my neighborhood, and Pearl Jam recorded their 1995 live album (Live at Easystreet) at the record store/cafe a block and a half from my home.

[Orioles1954]

Having a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like having a Food Hall of Fame. Even if the hot dog or jello or baked Alaska is elected, what is the point and significance, including to the food and the fan of the food? Is a hot dog better because it's a member of the Food Hall of Fame? A Hall of Fame is bizarre, and misguided, metric.

If you judge or justify the music of The Beatles or Madonna or (fill in the blank) based on whether they are in a private for-profit Hall of Fame, I'd say you have a strange view of music that I can't relate to. To me, a band being a member of the Hall of Fame has nothing to do with nothing.

Duly note that I like bands that both are in and will never ever be in the "Hall," from The Beatles and Led Zeppelin to Discharge and The Television Personalities ("Who?").

Television Personalities are great!

[drcy]

My art theory professor said I was a natural theorist, because, unlike most of his other students, I was able to move beyond whether or not I liked the artwork in question.

For example, I'm no Madonna fan, but she clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Though I would change the name of the Hall to the Popular (Pop) Music Hall of Fame, or Popular Rock Hall of Fame, because they are clearly dealing with commercially successful and popular bands. There is lots of great music outside of the Top 40, but that's not what this museum is about. It's a commercial endever, like a museum park. Which is fine, I guess. I have nothing against tourist attractions and museum parks. I like cotton candy.

[icollectDCsports]

My art theory professor said I was a natural theorist, because, unlike most of his other students, I was able to move beyond whether or not I liked the artwork in question.

For example, I'm no Madonna fan, but she clearly belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Though I would change the name of the Hall to the Popular (Pop) Music Hall of Fame, or Popular Rock Hall of Fame, because they are clearly dealing with commercially successful and popular bands. There is lots of great music outside of the Top 40, but that's not what this museum is about. It's a commercial endever, like a museum park. Which is fine, I guess. I have nothing against tourist attractions and museum parks. I like cotton candy.

Agree with this except the cotton candy part.

[doug.goodman]

Hysteria. That album was HUGE. I believe that tour they played 2 nights in pretty much every city.

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

[doug.goodman]

You can insult my mom, or my kids, or my wife, and no hard feelings, but don't you ever talk about Radiohead that way. You've just made a moderately powerful enemy.

Your mom, kids and wife are all less boring live than Radiohead. The best thing they ever did was their cover of Beck's "Loser".

[perezfan]

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

Nice to see Thin Lizzy mentioned.

And what’s the point, if Devo isn’t even in!!!

[oldjudge]

Tommy James and the Shondells had two number one hits and 14 top 40 hits, and they're not in the hall. They've also had a number of their songs covered including Billy Idol's Mony Mony, and Joan Jett Crimson in Clover. If that's not enough, then take a listen to Draggin the Line while driving with the top down in summer, and try to tell me that it's not one of the greatest songs of all time. Damn, I'm up way too early drinking coffee. LOL

“I Think We’re Alone Now” is one of my all time favorites

[Shoeless Moe]

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

It's pronounced:

"SLAYER...SLAYER....SLAYER...SLAYER"


SLAYER RULES!!!!!!!

[oldjudge]

Hopefully, next year The Archies will get in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

[Michael B]

Hopefully, next year The Archies will get in:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

I talked with Ron Dante (lead singing voice) in New Jersey in October. He also produced all of Barry Manilow's hits. He still does oldies shows and cruises.

'Sugar, Sugar' is on my personal top 500.

[Tabe]

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.



2 diamond albums, 6 other platinum albums, and multiple gold albums. They didn't even remotely have "one big album".

[rats60]

One big album does not a fall of fame career make.

Among those in the metal / hard rock world who should get in before Leppard are : Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Scorpions, Thin Lizzy, and Ronnie James Dio.

And Slayer. Proniounced Slaaayyyyaaahhhhh!!!!!!

And Devo.

2 big albums. Hysteria out sold Pyromania. That is also 2 more big albums that any of those listed bands had. I don't have a problem with Def Leopard making it, but none of those are worthy to me.

Only 2 rock bands really matter and now they will both be in, The Velvet Underground and Roxy Music. After that it is just who is popular and the obvious choices (Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin, Floyd, etc.).

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Shoeless Moe

The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.
and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????

Hi everyone. After reading this post I wanted to make my first ever post on the board to talk about this. Since I was 13, my favorite band is The Cure. If you don’t enjoy their music - that’s your opinion. No performer’s music is for everyone. The Cure has produced a ton of albums, had a lot of billboard hits, have a strong legion of fans and this is their 40th anniversary as a band so they are doing something right. Glad they made it.

I have also been a long time supporter of Harold Baines and Lee Smith. Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own. Baines put up some pretty impressive career numbers. My support for Baines is largely based on the assumption that if there were no strikes in 1981 and 1994 and he had that time back he would have 3000 hits and 400 home runs and there would be no question of his accomplishments. His numbers are better than Tony Perez for comparison to a current member. I take issue with the sportswriters who didn’t see this and vote for him when he was on the ballot.

To me, the 2019 inductees have earned their spots and are deserving of the honor and the institutions are better for having them.

[Tabe]

Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own.
What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

[drcy]

Hi everyone. After reading this post I wanted to make my first ever post on the board to talk about this. Since I was 13, my favorite band is The Cure.

I was well known as a Cure fanatic back in college back in the late '80s. Their albums Pornography and Faith are still #2 and #3 on my all-time favorite albums . . . Along those aesthetic lines, Echo & the Bunnymen, The Psychedelic Furs and Bauhaus were other college favorites-- and still are.

[doug.goodman]

It's pronounced:

"SLAYER...SLAYER....SLAYER...SLAYER"


SLAYER RULES!!!!!!!

The only Def Leppard albums worth listening to are prior to Pyromania

Here's my hall of fame...

[ejharrington]

The only Def Leppard albums worth listening to are prior to Pyromania

Here's my hall of fame...
I would love if there was a Hard Rock & Heavy Metal Hall of Fame.

Black Sabbath, KISS, Venom, Slayer, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Metallica could be the first class of inductees.

[tschock]

I would love if there was a Hard Rock & Heavy Metal Hall of Fame.

Black Sabbath, KISS, Venom, Slayer, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and Metallica could be the first class of inductees.

Wha? No Purple (Deep)? I really need to watch my speedometer when listening to Lazy or Highway Star live. :)

[Yastrzemski Sports]

What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

Lee Smith was the all time saves leader from 1993-2006. Still 3rd all time.

[ejharrington]

Wha? No Purple (Deep)? I really need to watch my speedometer when listening to Lazy or Highway Star live. :)
Ok, fair point. Purple is in!

[Rickyy]

Roxy Music should have been in the HOF years ago... influenced the new romantic movement in music, took Rock music to new heights and directions.

Ricky Y

[Shoeless Moe]

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?



and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!


It would be tough picking an initial 5, but I'd go:

Zeppelin
AC/DC
Metallica
Van Halen
Black Sabbath/Ozzy

in no particular order.


The next class:

Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Motorhead
Slayer
Guns n Roses




dammit.....forgot Aerosmith

[BobC]

...but what cap does Dio wear, Rainbow, Sabbath or his very own Dio?

Early work with Ozzy is where Sabbath is deserving of Hall enshrinement, by the time Ronnie James got involved.....nope! I don't see him in there with Rainbow or on his own either.

[BobC]

and I think you might have a few objectors leaving out of the first class Zeppelin, AC/DC, Van Halen, Megadeth, & Motorhead!



Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

[Shoeless Moe]

Before you go putting Motorhead into an inaugural class, they didn't originally write and perform their own self-titled/named song. The group that did should be under consideration for enshrinement before them (and many other named bands/performers) in my opinion.

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.



And I'm fine with Dio waiting to get in, as far as I'm concerned He's The Last In Line!

[BobC]

You would never have said this to Lemmy if he were still alive.



Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

[Michael B]

Sure I would have. Lemmy actually originally played for this other group I'm referring to, and wrote and performed "Motorhead" while he was with them. I believe even he agreed that it was while he with this original group that he really developed and learned how to play and perform to became the musician and performer he ended up being once he formed Motorhead the group. If I remember correctly, he ended up getting caught/arrested going from the U.S. into Canada for drugs, and because of that along with a lot of other erratic behavior he exhibited at the time, this original group ended up just replacing him. Kind of/sort of like what happened between Ozzy and Sabbath to some extent I guess.

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

[drcy]

I'm not just The Cure.

For 'hard' bands, I'd nominate Celtic Frost and Discharge. The best ever metal band and the best punk. Seminal, influential, but probably too real and extreme to ever be considered.

Discharge's Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing (1982) is the greatest extreme music and punk album ever made. In a class of its own. It is one of the most influential albums, whether or not you heard of the band or album and is as fresh and extreme today as it was 36 years ago. "A punk rock landmark if ever there was one, Discharge's Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing is one of the most bleak, angry albums to ever grace the underground."-- allmusic

Other deserving punk bands are Black Flag and Dead Kennedys, but I'm sure they laugh at a music HOF.

Duly note that I think the HOF is silly, and do want to see those bands in it.

[BobC]

It is okay to say Hawkwind though considering some of their songs they were not solidly heavy metal. Consider 'Quark, Strangeness and Charm' and 'Spirit of the Age'. Both from the 'Quark...' album. The title song is new wave/Brit pop and 'Spirit' is more electronica. I would consider much of their earlier music psychedelic/electronic.

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!

[ejharrington]

Don't disagree, their musical area was more aligned with the psychedelic/electronic format in their early years, of which they were pioneers in that type of genre. I was referring more to regular Rock HOF election than just pure hard/heavy metal hall induction, However, they were known for their live stage shows and presentations, especially in their early years, which was an influence on others to come. Their alignment with other artists and performers with different backgrounds is also well known and they often used various performers and artists coming and going in their shows and tours on a regular basis. For the hard rock side, having Lemmy as your bassist doesn't hurt either, and though they employed a lot of electronics and steered towards a more science fiction/fantasy type them in a lot of their music, based on a lot of what we have today, they could be viewed as being way ahead of their time.

They incorporated a lot of spoken word pieces in their performances, which was a bit unique for the time, and included the use of dancers and other performers on stage that became a well known part of the band and performance itself. They had an Irish performance artist, Stacia, who was built like an Amazon and would perform and dance during their live shows, often just in body paint and either topless or naked otherwise. Again, something kind of unique and possibly the first time being used in rock performances.

Their live shows were legendary and the lighting and such was so well done and orchestrated that the crew handling that work become almost as well known as the band itself in many areas. Can you name any other rock band where the crew were actually known by name, in this case "Liquid Len and the Lensmen"? Also, they were in their early years very much aligned with a popular Sci-fi/Fantasy writer of the time, Michael Moorcock. (Okay guys, be adult regarding the author's last name.) In fact, he actually wrote a full length sci-fi novel that featured the band and its current members at that time as the main characters and protaganists of the book. Who would have thought that a rock bands specific style and form of music would be the only power able to stop certain evil powers set to take over the Earth!?!?!? Can you name me any other rock bands that have had that done? I know the Beatles had their early movies, and later on MTV brought out the videos, but any actual novels written about any performers not as a documentary/biographical type works?

There may be by now, 40+ years later, but certainly not before Hawkwind as this is going back to the 70's. Also, they were more well known as a British group, another reason they aren't mainstream and popular here in the U.S. And they were not really that concerned with being big stars and making lots of money. They were well known for performing in free festivals and virtually anywhere someone would let them play. They were also very fluid in the members and genres they incorporated over the years, which is also another reason they probably don't get the due they deserve from their early years. There is virtually one person, Dave Brock, who has been the sole constant member and driving force behind the group till today. What with the ever-changing lineups and infinite re-mixes of songs and styles over the years, the musical course of the group has constantly changed over the decades. Which is another element that doesn't necessarily endear the group to the multitude of average rock fans who like to see the same group, same members, same songs, done the same way, etc., over the years. If you were to see them perform in recent years, they couldn't/wouldn't sound or necessarily perform anywhere near like what they did 40+ years earlier. Meanwhile, if someone goes to see Sir Paul McCartney perform today and he includes "Hey Jude" in the show, I'll bet my last dollar it is going to sound pretty much like it did when the Beatles released it back in the 60s. So those folks today get to hear the near same exact song people first heard in the 60s, which helps to continue the legend, the memories, and so on, and bring new fans to McCartneys camp that weren't alive to have heard the Beatles when they first hit the scene. That is another element that deals with the elevating of some person/group to HOF status in my opinion. So with a group like Hawkwind, if you weren't really into them back then, they didn't do a lot of commercially successful pop type hits for the time that would still resonate with people today, you can't go see a retro tour where they re-do their hits note for note, and you can't attend an epic live performance of their shows with the lights and visual performers they originally had, and thus there isn't really a lot besides their old recordings that people now can listen to get to know and appreciate them. At the time they first were out though, they were definitely innovative and influential in what and how they performed. Considered often as early pioneers in the electronic/psychedelic music genre, and even the early proto-punk movement, with elements of speed and heavy metal here and there as well. They were unique, and I feel deserving of HOF status for their musical contributions, style and influences, not just because of how many records they sold, as that never really seemed to be their main focus. The group was more the true artist type, caring more about the music than being commercially successful. That, in and of itself, has always got me to appreciate them more than many other groups deemed rock hall worthy. For example, KISS. I'll give KISS credit for appearing in their outfits and their theatrics onstage as rather new and innovative at the time, but their actual music was also kind of bland and simply basic standard rock, just something to be commercially successful and sell records. To me, they are the epitome of the sell out performer only interested in self-promotion and selling records (ie: making money). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to make money, but lets face it, Kiss, especially Gene Simmons, is almost totally about making the money. The music really isn't that great, the stage show just helped to get them there. And Kiss started not too long after Hawkwind so they operated around the same time frame. If Hawkwind had put more emphasis on just generating basic pop/rock anthems simply to sell records to the common masses like KISS, and included someone who was the ultimate narcissistic person and self-promoter like Gene Simmons to constantly remind people how great they were, a lot more people would know about Hawkwind than they do now and could more likely be considered as big and deserving of HOF status as KISS. But the fact they didn't, and stayed true to the music and their art form over just seeking commercial success is exactly what I think separates and elevates them above others, like KISS!

As a great example, one of the inaugural Rock HOF inductees was Robert Johnson. I'm pretty sure he didn't sell a whole lot of records during his life, at least not like artists of today. Never really made much money or became famous when he lived, but is definitely deserving. I'm not saying Hawkwind is on his level of contribution to rock music, but they sure added a lot more to it than KISS ever did!
KISS has made so many great songs. I have been listening to them since 1977 and many songs I would guess I have heard 1000 times and they never get old. KISS is the Babe Ruth of the R&R HOF.

[Fred]

Let's get ready to rumble...... :D

Lot's of opinions of who's who in the rock n' roll HOF. Since this is a baseball card board does anyone have an opinion on who is the Babe Ruth of the Rock n Roll Music HOF (RRHOF)? Are the Beatles the Babe Ruth of the RRHOF? Good argument for that - Ruth was an idol in the US as were the Beatles. Both blazed a trail, Ruth in baseball, Beatles in music.


Here's the list of the first inductees to the RRHOF:


Buddy Holly
<li>Chuck Berry</li><li>Elvis Presley</li><li>Fats Domino</li><li>James Brown</li><li>Jerry Lee Lewis</li><li>Little Richard</li><li>Ray Charles</li><li>Sam Cooke</li><li>Everly Brothers</li>


There's hardly any mention of these guys in this thread..... did the RRHOF get it wrong on the first inductees? The Beatles didn't even make it to the third year and Zep wasn't inducted until the doors had been opened for 10 years.

[rats60]

Let's get ready to rumble...... :D

Lot's of opinions of who's who in the rock n' roll HOF. Since this is a baseball card board does anyone have an opinion on who is the Babe Ruth of the Rock n Roll Music HOF (RRHOF)? Are the Beatles the Babe Ruth of the RRHOF? Good argument for that - Ruth was an idol in the US as were the Beatles. Both blazed a trail, Ruth in baseball, Beatles in music.


Here's the list of the first inductees to the RRHOF:


Buddy Holly
<li>Chuck Berry</li><li>Elvis Presley</li><li>Fats Domino</li><li>James Brown</li><li>Jerry Lee Lewis</li><li>Little Richard</li><li>Ray Charles</li><li>Sam Cooke</li><li>Everly Brothers</li>


There's hardly any mention of these guys in this thread..... did the RRHOF get it wrong on the first inductees? The Beatles didn't even make it to the third year and Zep wasn't inducted until the doors had been opened for 10 years.

To be eligible for the Rock n Roll Hof, the artist must have made their first commercial recording at least 25 years earlier. The HOF opened in 1986, so the Beatles weren't eligible until 1988.

[Gobucsmagic74]

You can insult my mom, or my kids, or my wife, and no hard feelings, but don't you ever talk about Radiohead that way. You've just made a moderately powerful enemy.

My favorite band of all-time and none of my friends or family can stand a single song, which I’m totally fine with

[Laxcat]

I see the argument for bands/musicians that heavily influenced other artist being inducted. But why in the H-E-🏒-🏒 are The Pixies not in yet?

[Shoeless Moe]

Babe Ruth = Elvis Presley

[BobC]

KISS has made so many great songs. I have been listening to them since 1977 and many songs I would guess I have heard 1000 times and they never get old. KISS is the Babe Ruth of the R&R HOF.

I don't knock anyone's taste in music and am glad you truly enjoy KISS music and songs. But a lot of people/groups over the years wrote and performed a multitude of songs that people enjoy and like. So there's nothing overly special about having done that that automatically should gain them entrance to the rock hall. But a lot of these performers write and perform their music simply to appease the likes of the masses at that time and don't really do anything different or innovative to advance or expand their musical talents and abilities, or that of the music profession itself. They simply figure out the current formula of what sells, what gimmick gets people to buy tickets to see them, and then they exploit that to the Nth degree. That in my opinion is the type of group KISS is. I never said I don't also like some of their music, just that it isn't anything really special, innovative, new, mind-blowing, whatever you want to call it. They got the formula down to create songs people liked and came up with the additional hook surrounding their makeup and costumes, and then exploited that till, well they still are to this day.

In retrospect, look at groups like the Beatles. Their early albums had a very definite, clean sound. But they weren't happy just performing the same simple songs over and over and took chances and experimented and delved into new sounds and techniques that frankly helped change the face of rock music forever. KISS music has always followed the same pattern and sounded pretty much the same. They just keep following the formula of what sells for them, which is great. Not knocking consistency, just pointing out how they never really took any chances and changed how they were to expand their own musical abilities and horizons, and how they haven't really influenced anyone else either. They just were popular enough to sell a lot of records, but I don't see anything overly special in them to distinguish them enough from a lot of other groups/performers to be in the hall, besides having sold a lot of records and having a very loyal and dedicated core base of fans that like their music and sound.

Now you have lots of other groups that also tried to jump on the bandwagon of just doing what was popular to keep selling records. Look back at some of the performers who experimented with doing disco type songs when that craze was popular for a period of time. You going to tell me that those groups that suddenly changed their style to create s few disco sounding songs weren't doing it just for the sales and money?

By the way, KISS is not the Babe Ruth of rock and roll. I wouldn't even make them any higher than maybe the bat boy on that team. And I have listened to them over the years and seen them perform live, they aren't deserving of that title. But if to your musical likes and taste the rate that, then good for you, I;'m glad you like them and can enjoy them that much.

By the way, as such a big fan, have you been on one of KISS' sponsored cruises ever?

[BobC]

Let's get ready to rumble...... :D

Lot's of opinions of who's who in the rock n' roll HOF. Since this is a baseball card board does anyone have an opinion on who is the Babe Ruth of the Rock n Roll Music HOF (RRHOF)? Are the Beatles the Babe Ruth of the RRHOF? Good argument for that - Ruth was an idol in the US as were the Beatles. Both blazed a trail, Ruth in baseball, Beatles in music.


Here's the list of the first inductees to the RRHOF:


Buddy Holly
<li>Chuck Berry</li><li>Elvis Presley</li><li>Fats Domino</li><li>James Brown</li><li>Jerry Lee Lewis</li><li>Little Richard</li><li>Ray Charles</li><li>Sam Cooke</li><li>Everly Brothers</li>


There's hardly any mention of these guys in this thread..... did the RRHOF get it wrong on the first inductees? The Beatles didn't even make it to the third year and Zep wasn't inducted until the doors had been opened for 10 years.

You did not also mention the inductees who went in back in 1986 under the "Early Influences" moniker. Jimmy Rodgers, Jim Yancey and Robert Johnson. I did make mention of Robert Johnson in reference to his not having really sold a lot of records or having a long and illustrious career. But the innovations he came up with and the trends he started by his at that time style and ability, and unquestionable. Not too mention the mythical status he holds as to the way he supposedly gained those abilities and the impact that legend has had on the music and performers over these many years, and still does. I was pointing this out earlier in reference to how being worth of rock hall status should not rest solely on record sales alone.

And of the rock hall inductees in that inaugural group, I know there are a multitude of people who crowned Presley the King, and would claim he is the Babe Ruth of Rock and Roll. But he was always more of a country crooner if you really listen to his music and style. If you want to look at it from a purist standpoint and literally think of the term Rock-n-Roll, the true Babe Ruth is Chuck Berry. His original performances and electric guitar playing and ability were the cornerstone for what we came to believe was the essence of a rock and roll band. The Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds, Zeppelin, even KISS, and so many other rock groups and performers are more aligned with and developed along the lines of Chuck Berry and his musical style and talents than ever did from Elvis. Don't get me wrong, Elvis is great, but Chuck Berry is/was the standard for true, pure rock-n-roll.

And along those same lines, how the hell did they make Les Paul wait until 1988 to get in the rock hall, and even worse, 1992 for Leo Fender? Whenever you hear people discussing rock-n-roll, at the very mention of the electric guitar, which is to me the cornerstone of rock-n-roll music and the only true sound/instrument that defined it and set it apart from every previous music style and form, there are only two names that deserve to be on that Mount Rushmore - Gibson Les Paul and Fender Stratocaster. Period!!!!

[ejharrington]

I don't knock anyone's taste in music and am glad you truly enjoy KISS music and songs. But a lot of people/groups over the years wrote and performed a multitude of songs that people enjoy and like. So there's nothing overly special about having done that that automatically should gain them entrance to the rock hall. But a lot of these performers write and perform their music simply to appease the likes of the masses at that time and don't really do anything different or innovative to advance or expand their musical talents and abilities, or that of the music profession itself. They simply figure out the current formula of what sells, what gimmick gets people to buy tickets to see them, and then they exploit that to the Nth degree. That in my opinion is the type of group KISS is. I never said I don't also like some of their music, just that it isn't anything really special, innovative, new, mind-blowing, whatever you want to call it. They got the formula down to create songs people liked and came up with the additional hook surrounding their makeup and costumes, and then exploited that till, well they still are to this day.

In retrospect, look at groups like the Beatles. Their early albums had a very definite, clean sound. But they weren't happy just performing the same simple songs over and over and took chances and experimented and delved into new sounds and techniques that frankly helped change the face of rock music forever. KISS music has always followed the same pattern and sounded pretty much the same. They just keep following the formula of what sells for them, which is great. Not knocking consistency, just pointing out how they never really took any chances and changed how they were to expand their own musical abilities and horizons, and how they haven't really influenced anyone else either. They just were popular enough to sell a lot of records, but I don't see anything overly special in them to distinguish them enough from a lot of other groups/performers to be in the hall, besides having sold a lot of records and having a very loyal and dedicated core base of fans that like their music and sound.

Now you have lots of other groups that also tried to jump on the bandwagon of just doing what was popular to keep selling records. Look back at some of the performers who experimented with doing disco type songs when that craze was popular for a period of time. You going to tell me that those groups that suddenly changed their style to create s few disco sounding songs weren't doing it just for the sales and money?

By the way, KISS is not the Babe Ruth of rock and roll. I wouldn't even make them any higher than maybe the bat boy on that team. And I have listened to them over the years and seen them perform live, they aren't deserving of that title. But if to your musical likes and taste the rate that, then good for you, I;'m glad you like them and can enjoy them that much.

By the way, as such a big fan, have you been on one of KISS' sponsored cruises ever?
KISS has sold over 100 million albums. They have sold probably more merchandise than any other band in the history of rock and roll. They have more Gold albums than any other American rock band. They totally revolutionized the live concert; no band ever worked harder onstage to put on a great show for their fans. If you read interviews of many younger musicians, especially in hard rock and metal, they almost always cite KISS as the band that got them into music (some like Dimebag and Vinnie Paul are buried in their Kaskets). They have the most loyal fan club, the KISS Army, of which I have been a member since 1977. Speaking for myself, I probably wouldn't even care about music if it wasn't for them. If they aren't HOFers, I don't know who is.

I've never done the KISS Kruise but I did the Meet and Greet with them in Bridgeport a couple of years back. They were great guys and truly appreciate their fans.

[JustinD]

and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all. :)

Yeah, not an egging on but whoa...Roxy Music is the most deserving nominee on that list.

[dgtom]

I second that thought. Chuck Berry influenced so many bands, that virtually every band that has ever mattered has had Chuck Berry cover songs that they either recorded, or had as part of their live repertoire. The Rolling Stones would not exist as a band without playing Chuck Berry songs at the beginning of their career, as they didn’t start writing their own songs until their second or third album.

[BobC]

KISS has sold over 100 million albums. They have sold probably more merchandise than any other band in the history of rock and roll. They have more Gold albums than any other American rock band. They totally revolutionized the live concert; no band ever worked harder onstage to put on a great show for their fans. If you read interviews of many younger musicians, especially in hard rock and metal, they almost always cite KISS as the band that got them into music (some like Dimebag and Vinnie Paul are buried in their Kaskets). They have the most loyal fan club, the KISS Army, of which I have been a member since 1977. Speaking for myself, I probably wouldn't even care about music if it wasn't for them. If they aren't HOFers, I don't know who is.

I've never done the KISS Kruise but I did the Meet and Greet with them in Bridgeport a couple of years back. They were great guys and truly appreciate their fans.

Saw this article online and had to bring it up in regards to KISS. Especially take a look at the comments section about KISS and their musical abilities and so on. And the comment/idea made by Simmons about maybe just hiring new people to wear the makeup and have none of the original members even playing lends to the idea that they were not that original or talented to begin with, just doing something to sell tickets and albums to make money and they could plug in anyone they wanted because the fan base would just keep paying for it. And got to love the comparison to the Kardashian's as drama queens. Soooo not HOF worthy!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ace-frehley-accuses-gene-simmons-groping-wife-scathing-facebook-post-055124104.html

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Saw this article online and had to bring it up in regards to KISS. Especially take a look at the comments section about KISS and their musical abilities and so on. And the comment/idea made by Simmons about maybe just hiring new people to wear the makeup and have none of the original members even playing lends to the idea that they were not that original or talented to begin with, just doing something to sell tickets and albums to make money and they could plug in anyone they wanted because the fan base would just keep paying for it. And got to love the comparison to the Kardashian's as drama queens. Soooo not HOF worthy!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ace-frehley-accuses-gene-simmons-groping-wife-scathing-facebook-post-055124104.html

I am not a Kiss fan. I don’t like their music and personally think it’s mediocre. In interviews, almost every band from the past 25 years names Kiss as the reason they picked up an instrument and believed they could be a rock star. For that reason I do believe that their influence and their vision has changed the course of music to make them one of the most important bands ever and they absolutely belong.

[LACardsGuy]

Roxy Music one of the greatest bands of all time. The rock and roll hall of fame is a stupid joke, and half the bands in there suck, but Roxy Music is not one of them. Neither is Radiohead.

[drcy]

Roxy Music one of the greatest bands of all time. The rock and roll hall of fame is a stupid joke, and half the bands in there suck, but Roxy Music is not one of them. Neither is Radiohead.

Agree. Surprised that anyone would question the selection of Roxy Music.

[BobC]

I am not a Kiss fan. I don’t like their music and personally think it’s mediocre. In interviews, almost every band from the past 25 years names Kiss as the reason they picked up an instrument and believed they could be a rock star. For that reason I do believe that their influence and their vision has changed the course of music to make them one of the most important bands ever and they absolutely belong.

Which is exactly why I don't really listen to anyone that has come along in the last 25 years. :)

I agree they should be in some Hall of Fame for their theatrics and marketing, for their musical ability, innovation and such, I'm not so positive! Be sure to check out the comments section of that article and see what I mean. I know KISS has some unbelievable die-hard fans, and I don't disparage anyone for liking them, and I actually don't dislike them or their music myself. But their music isn't anything innovative or new, there's no new style or sense to it. They took elements of their music and shows from others before them, from the likes of Alice Cooper and Devo, and molded it together to create the image and persona of KISS. And then they marketed the heck out of themselves and played up to the fans. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that, just not HOF worthy in my opinion from a musical standpoint.

And as to the all the others crediting KISS as to why they wanted to pick up an instrument and become a rock star, it was mostly because they realized that if these guys from KISS could do it without any special musical talent or innovation and just a lot of smoke, mirrors and theatrics, then maybe anyone else could do it as well. As pointed out in one of the comments to the article, the KISS guys even admitted to starting the band to make money and get girls, not necessarily to make great music. So all those aspiring to be like KISS, what exactly are they aspiring to be, great rock artists and musicians, or just some horn dogs making all the women and money they can?

Think about it this way. If someone could figure out a way to be a card collector and that directly led to them being able to gets lots of money and women, how many other would be collectors would suddenly start following that person and using them as their influence and example to get into card collecting as well, with the aspiration of also getting lots of women and money. Now if that same someone's actual card collection and knowledge are really nothing great at all, who cares, they're making lots of money and getting lots of women from it. And because of that someone's great success in attracting women and money simply due to their card collecting, there are tons of other people who would probably think they should be elected to the Card Collecting HOF as a result, whether they really deserve to be in there from purely a card collecting standpoint or not. Now if that is the kind of person you would want in a Card Collecting HOF, despite them not really having a decent card collection or special knowledge or expertise in the hobby, then I can understand why you would think KISS belongs in the Rock and Roll HOF.

[ejharrington]

Saw this article online and had to bring it up in regards to KISS. Especially take a look at the comments section about KISS and their musical abilities and so on. And the comment/idea made by Simmons about maybe just hiring new people to wear the makeup and have none of the original members even playing lends to the idea that they were not that original or talented to begin with, just doing something to sell tickets and albums to make money and they could plug in anyone they wanted because the fan base would just keep paying for it. And got to love the comparison to the Kardashian's as drama queens. Soooo not HOF worthy!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ace-frehley-accuses-gene-simmons-groping-wife-scathing-facebook-post-055124104.html
I'm not going to scroll through 2,000 comments by grown men who live in their parents' basement telling me how KISS sucks.

Long live the KISS Army!

[the 'stache]

Yet after all this time, Toto is still not in the RNRHOF. That's a travesty. As a band, they've sold well over 40 million albums. Ten Grammy nominations, six wins. The members of the band are some of the most sought after studio musicians in American popular music history. They were instrumental in the recording of the biggest seller of all-time, co-writing and recording multiple tracks on Michael Jackson's Thriller. Pull out a big time selling album from the mid-to-late 70s to the mid-to-late 80s, and chances are that Jeff Porcaro, Steve Lukather, David Paich or Steve Porcaro either co-wrote the song(s) on it, or lent their virtuoso playing. If the Hall celebrates great music, few bands have ever had the influence Toto has had. You can't make an album showcasing the most popular songs of the 1980s without them. From the perspective of sheer musical talent, there might be no more gifted group.

Rush got in. Now Toto is my new bully pulpit.

[seanofjapan]

My only takeaway from this thread is that everyone is pissed off because (name of band that they don’t know well because they were over 30 when they became famous) got into the Hall before (name of band that they liked at some point before they turned 30).

Which is cool because that is how I evaluate pop music too.