What’s the obsession with Mickey Mantle?

[Snapolit1]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

[rats60]

New York Yankees 12 Pennants in 14 seasons and 7 World Championships. He also had 2 huge years in 1956 and 1957 when Baseball Cards were becoming big with kids. When the hobby took off in the late 70s and early 80s it was fueled by those 50s kids who idolized Mantle and were now grown with disposable income to relive their childhoods.

[Kawika]

I grew up around NYC in the fifties. Saw many games at old Yankee Stadium. In the world I lived in there was Mantle and there was everyone else. Lots of great stars back in those days but no one shined quite the same way as the Mick. Didn't hurt that the Yankees had that dynasty thing going.

https://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/family/familymoviescreencaps/large/FamMov1.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

We also need links to all the other threads in which someone has raised this question :)

I collect sets. If he is in a set, I need him. If he has a variation in a set, like 52 and 67 (3), I need those too.

I have seen the debate about why his premium is bigger than other stars both here on the main board and on the post war board, and on CU and other boards

It seems to me people who don't have his cards think they are overpriced and are waiting for the market to correct, while those who have them hope the market continues to climb. So far the haves have it.

[Arazi4442]

Agree that the confluence of events regarding world championships, New York, early-mid 50s, rise of baseball card collecting, all of that. But what i see personally, is the aura around the man. My dad grew up in that time through a large portion of the Midwest and even in towns that should be all about Musial, Banks and Aaron, he says there was still talk about Mickey.
My dad (and I assume most boys from that generation) can run for hours with Mantle stories. The time his rookie year he pulled up from a fly ball because he would have run over DiMaggio in the outfield. That gave him a knee injury that slowed him the rest of his career. The jersey number thing, Ruth was three, Gherig was 4, DiMaggio was 5, Mantle knew he was next but chose 7. The stories of towering home runs. Plus, I think the struggles with partying, alcohol, etc. only made him more human to his fans.

[irv]

We also need links to all the other threads in which someone has raised this question :)

I collect sets. If he is in a set, I need him. If he has a variation in a set, like 52 and 67 (3), I need those too.

I have seen the debate about why his premium is bigger than other stars both here on the main board and on the post war board, and on CU and other boards

It seems to me people who don't have his cards think they are overpriced and are waiting for the market to correct, while those who have them hope the market continues to climb. So far the haves have it.

I agree with this a lot, and also, like Babe Ruth, he is a legend, maybe even of epic proportions, and Legends will never be forgotten about.

[Touch'EmAll]

Y'know, sort of the same thing with Nolan Ryan. A lot would argue he was not the "complete all around" best pitcher in his era (Seaver, Carlton, Palmer), but his card prices sure are head and shoulders above the rest. Why? The sheer overpowering awesomeness, kind of like Mick, that's what sticks in minds...the stuff legends are made of, stuff that no one else can do.

[barrysloate]

I remember opening up packs in the early 1960's, and knew then that if I found a Mickey Mantle, I hit the jackpot. He could be traded for a whole stack of some other kid's cards. Mantle was an iconic figure in the 50's and 60's, and a lot of baby boomers have sunk big money into his cards and memorabilia.

Now it's always possible his star will fade a bit over time, when a new generation takes over the hobby. But for now he is still the post-WWII gold standard.

[The Nasty Nati]

My Dad was born in 1945 so he was primetime Mantle when he was a kid. He grew up in Cincinnati at a time when there were local stars like Frank Robinson and Ted Kluszewski, but even he worshipped Mickey Mantle.

He was like a god to kids. Good-looking, great baseball name, a 5 tool player, and he played for what was already a dynasty team.

Now when you look at his overall career stats they are good but not god-like like other players of his era like Willie Mays. But I think collectors look at Mantles glory era, during the 50s when he was relatively healthy and not plagued by alcoholism. He played a majority of his career with a torn ACL and in many ways the bottle helped ease the pain.

Mantle is like Mike Trout, but on a higher profile team. Now image if Mike Trout got hurt and found the bottle in the 2020s. That is Mickey Mantle.

[rjackson44]

love steve but I think hes drinking

[AGuinness]

Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there.

I'm pretty sure that you answered your own question with this statement. Just a quick look at some historical data and NYC had a population of nearly 8 million during the 1950s, more than twice the next biggest city in the US. And I'm not sure if that counts the surrounding area (NJ, Conn., Long Island, etc.).

[Vintageclout]

Y'know, sort of the same thing with Nolan Ryan. A lot would argue he was not the "complete all around" best pitcher in his era (Seaver, Carlton, Palmer), but his card prices sure are head and shoulders above the rest. Why? The sheer overpowering awesomeness, kind of like Mick, that's what sticks in minds...the stuff legends are made of, stuff that no one else can do.

Well said. Ryan wasn’t even close to the pitchers that Seaver, Carlton & Palmer were. They were all superior pitchers vs. Ryan. However, they didn’t throw 100 mph and compile the strike outs Ryan did. Strikeouts and no-hitters are “sparkling-like” statistics that attract attention. Mantle was perceived as “Goliath” via his supernatural-like power and ability to hit a baseball further than anyone in baseball history. A dynamic type skill set that enabled him to be viewed by his avid followers as a sort of God. Mays, Willians, Musial, Aaron all better hitters, but they weren’t superhuman like The Mick. Thus, both Mantle & Ryan carry an uncanny hobby mystique that places their cards at a higher level than their peers who actually bested their overall ability.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

It seems the Mantle mystique gets some mileage out of the tragic nature of his career---self-inflicted much of it was. It's not necessarily PC to say, but he was the ideal white, blond-haired, blue eyed ballplayer. (Not positive on the eye color, but you get the idea). I can't help but smile whenever I see footage of him playing. What an athlete!

[MattyC]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

This post quoted above is either world class trolling or world class ignorance.

If you care to engage in some research before taking a pot shot at the focus of many collectors— or even google some video documentaries— you’ll see the perfect storm/alchemy that resulted in Mantle’s enduring popularity. And that includes the flawed and thus very relatable humanity he displayed late in life. Add to all that how so many now 30-40-somethings grew up in an era where Mantle’s cards held great mystique and status. It’s a case of the sum being far greater than the parts. So while it is about so much more than stats, it’s still worth noting that Mantle at his peak was about as nasty as it got in his time. Lastly, Vintageclout and others’ citing of Nolan Ryan is apt when discussing Mantle— sheer popularity, the ability to capture imaginations, these are powerful forces, especially in collecting.

[GregC]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

Maybe internalize a bit and ask yourself the same question. If you felt the urge to make the topic, sat down and typed, reread and hit post, you might have a slight obsession yourself.

[mrvster]

All legends......Baseball Icons......Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Mays, Gehrig ect....household names......all larger than life.....even in non sports general population has heard or know of their fame.....stats cans be argued, but its that certain X factor..... there stories and lifestyles that trandscend the sport or hobby...both good and bad....good movies and books are written about them....they have a certain enigma to them.....


Mantle, is in this category.....especially the boomers.....he hit when bb cards were truly as American as the game or apple pie....1952 topps set , one of the best issues ever (ojs, 33 goudeys,, t206, 52 topps)....home runs are sexy to the American public.....


short print....classic issue....baseball hero and icon , a legend.... a well recognized image of the Mick, very stoic, arrogant, and young.....another "mona lisa" like the iconic stare of the 206 Wagner or the stoic image of the t206 plank....the image is burned in all collectors minds wether they like it or not....

hence the perfect storm!

you can go on and on and on.........:)


you really can't go too wrong owning ant authentic '52 mantle....

[Lordstan]

Plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Snapolit1]

This post quoted above is either world class trolling or world class ignorance.

If you care to engage in some research before taking a pot shot at the focus of many collectors— or even google some video documentaries— you’ll see the perfect storm/alchemy that resulted in Mantle’s enduring popularity. And that includes the flawed and thus very relatable humanity he displayed late in life. Add to all that how so many now 30-40-somethings grew up in an era where Mantle’s cards held great mystique and status. It’s a case of the sum being far greater than the parts. So while it is about so much more than stats, it’s still worth noting that Mantle at his peak was about as nasty as it got in his time. Lastly, Vintageclout and others’ citing of Nolan Ryan is apt when discussing Mantle— sheer popularity, the ability to capture imaginations, these are powerful forces, especially in collecting.

A tad defensive, jeez. I don't need to do any research pal to know why Mickey Mantle is. I grew up in NYC. I also know Willie Mays played in NYC at some point too, and he's a flawed sometimes nasty unpleasant guy. And I almost never see anyone debating his cards on this board.

I'm not asking why his card are popular. I am asking why is he the most important face in post war collecting?

[Snapolit1]

Maybe internalize a bit and ask yourself the same question. If you felt the urge to make the topic, sat down and typed, reread and hit post, you might have a slight obsession yourself.

One post on Mickey Mantle in 7 years. I'd say that's a pretty low level obsession.

[ALR-bishop]

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img046.jpg


Discussions about the value of Mantle cards in and of themselves and relative to other stars like Aaron and Mays ( personality and all) have occurred over on post war from time to time

[steve B]

I think the question is a fair one.

It also leads to some deeper questions, about why one player over another, why one card more than another.

Mantle obviously has become sort of a symbol of his era, he certainly performed well enough. And had the advantage of playing in NY for what was one of the all time great teams.
But Mays was really close in performance, and also played in NY his first two years.
Had the team stayed, and if he'd retired after 1971 instead of hanging on a bit too long, how would he be viewed.

I think the NY effect has a bunch to do with it. Even when I was a kid, NY seemed like a special place where everything was bigger and better and more spectacular. And that was suburban western Mass/Ct in the 70's. I can only imagine the impression it had in most of the country in the 50's.

[MVSNYC]

Bob Costas explains it better than I ever could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa61H0FbtXA

[Peter_Spaeth]

I've posted this before in response to the same question.

First and foremost perhaps, factoring in an unbelievable number of walks, he was even better than his counting stats suggest. Top 10 player in my opinion.

New York during the 1950s. See Ken Burns, The Capital of Baseball.

Yankees. All the World Series.

Sorry to say this, but white.

The mystique of playing in pain and even at his extremely high level falling short of his ability.

Switch hitter.

Combo of power and speed.

His charisma, the down to earth folk hero personality.

The big forearms.

There's probably more.

[D. Bergin]

Well obviously being on the Yankees and winning all those titles don't hurt.

But, going off the idea he was just a big strong guy that hit a lot of homers kind of misses the point.

One quick look at his statistics and he was also a sabermetricians dream player.

Considering he played hurt most of his career and was a shadow of himself by his age 33 season, he sure has quite an accumulation of peripheral stats we didn't even take into account 20+ years ago. An "accumulator" he was not.

Just one example is WPA (Win Probability Added). He's #5 All-Time in this accumulated stat. Only guys ahead of him are Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Ted Williams. The only actual player with a comparable number of plate appearances on this list is Ted Williams. Everybody else around him has quite a few more.

It's up to everybody else to decide how much stock they put in this particular stat, but it's just one of many he rates very highly on.

[perezfan]

I also think the OP's question was fair. I've thought about it a lot, and certainly understand his immense popularity among Baby Boomers and those slightly older. Plus, it's just a classic and iconic Baseball Name... "Mickey Mantle". Perhaps second only to Babe Ruth, in terms of generating immediate name recognition, and having a certain "ring" to it.

But I do wonder how his values will hold up after the Baby Boom generation has passed. That will leave nobody who actually saw him play, or idolized/admired him in the ways described above. I think there may be a lesser premium placed on Mantle, with a decline starting around the year 2030 or so.

Just my humble opinion, and only time will tell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb have held up pretty well. I think Mantle will too. But who knows.

[jchcollins]

Just a quick look at some historical data and NYC had a population of nearly 8 million during the 1950s, more than twice the next biggest city in the US.

Also consider that the South in the 1950's and early 60's had nary a MLB team. The Yankees were America's team long before the Braves were. I know plenty of people my parents age from North and South Carolina who are huge Yankee fans because that is all they had growing up.

[jchcollins]

This post quoted above is either world class trolling or world class ignorance.

If you care to engage in some research before taking a pot shot at the focus of many collectors— or even google some video documentaries— you’ll see the perfect storm/alchemy that resulted in Mantle’s enduring popularity. And that includes the flawed and thus very relatable humanity he displayed late in life. Add to all that how so many now 30-40-somethings grew up in an era where Mantle’s cards held great mystique and status. It’s a case of the sum being far greater than the parts. So while it is about so much more than stats, it’s still worth noting that Mantle at his peak was about as nasty as it got in his time. Lastly, Vintageclout and others’ citing of Nolan Ryan is apt when discussing Mantle— sheer popularity, the ability to capture imaginations, these are powerful forces, especially in collecting.

Well said. Amen.

[JollyElm]

Mantle is gold. I don't know how rare the metal actually is, but like William Devane, I would stockpile it if I could. Mantle cards (seemingly) always go up in value, so whenever ebay puts out their 15% off coupons, the first things I look for are Micks. He played a bit before my time and as a New Yorker I've never understood the obsession with him, but the reality is he's at the apex of the collecting world and I don't see that ever changing.

This is a poll thread I started a while back, to try to see how many people around these parts actually saw Mantle play. It may help add a bit to the current discussion...
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=255158

[jchcollins]

I don't have much to add to what Matty said, but would make one other point in regards to the mystique and the whole not equaling the sum of the parts. Over everything else I think you have to consider the timing - Mickey Mantle's timing was absolutely perfect in not one, but TWO regards:

1) The culimanation of time and place for baseball was the 1950's in New York City. I would argue the popularity for baseball in the timeframe even above and beyond the Ruth / Gehrig era of the 1920's and 30's. They established the popularity of the game. 25 years later it was absolutely boiling over... Then all of the WS appearances and you had Mantle as a household name by the mid 1950's. This then continued through 1964 on and off with Mickey being a prime-time TV star at a time when the medium was also growing exponentially. You had to be under a rock to not know who Mickey Mantle was, even if you didn't care about baseball.

2) The culmination of time and player for the explosion of the card hobby in the the late 1970's and early 1980's was again...you guessed it, Mickey Mantle. When hotel shows and card shops started springing up everywhere, whose cards and whose autograph did an overwhelming majority of collectors and nostalgia hounds want first?

Bottom line, he was the most popular player of his generation and then helped to usher in the baseball card era several decades later. It's one of those things that has some novelty to it yes - and a sheen that cannot be explained by his stats or comparison to other players alone.

[rats60]

A tad defensive, jeez. I don't need to do any research pal to know why Mickey Mantle is. I grew up in NYC. I also know Willie Mays played in NYC at some point too, and he's a flawed sometimes nasty unpleasant guy. And I almost never see anyone debating his cards on this board.

I'm not asking why his card are popular. I am asking why is he the most important face in post war collecting?

Your question is very fair. There are a few of us who were in the hobby when Mantle wasn't the face post war collecting. He was on the same level as Willie Mays and Ted Williams. Then his cards blew up and he has just kept pulling away since. I think the fact that he was in the 52 high series (and the key card in that set), Mays was a semi-high and Williams didn't have a card probably helps too. Being the best card in Topps first set and part of the most difficult series of Topps cards ever made that card the post war card to have and spilled over to his other cards.

However, it was something that changed in the mid-eighties. Like I said in a previous post, I believe it was a group of 50s baby boomers coming into the hobby that cemented Mantle's statis. Starting collecting in the 60s, Mantle wasn't the most desirable card, it was Willie Mays, followed by Ted Williams. Mays was the best player in the game through most of the sixties. Perhaps if the hobby had exploded later (or earlier) it would be Mays or Williams, but that Yankee mystique is powerful.

[packs]

Mantle is probably revered because unlike Ted Williams and Willie Mays, almost everyone liked Mickey Mantle. Think about the stories you hear about people who have ever interacted with Willie or Ted. And then think about how fun Mantle seems. Why wouldn't a kid want to follow Mantle when faced with a decision between him and a crab like Mays. New York City is the largest city in the country and at one time both Mays and Mantle played in it. If you were from New York, there's no way you were going near a Red Sock like Williams and it doesn't help Williams that he missed significant years due to military service or that before Mantle he had to compete with Joe DiMaggio.

[The Nasty Nati]

Plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Haha are these real?

EDIT: This can't be real, but great spoof.

[Exhibitman]

The comparison with Ryan is one I hadn't considered but is very useful for collectors of my generation (X) to consider the question through. I am a huge Ryan fan. I recognize that there were better pitchers in his generation. Doesn't matter. Statistics do not define the appeal of Nolan Ryan. It was just so exciting every time he went to the mound. Seaver or Carlton was a better pitcher but there wasn't the potential for a 10+ K no-no whenever he went up there. With Ryan, you never knew, other than you were going to see an explosive fastball and a wicked curve and the hitters were going to catch him or not. He was a gunslinger as a starter. What appealed to me is that from 72-79 he led the league in K's seven times but also walked the most batters six times and is #1 all time in fewest hits per 9 innings. He has the most Ks and the most BBs and the most no-hitters in history. It was crazy fun whenever he went out there: if a player got on it was rare for the next guy to do much with it. I suspect Mantle was the same way: he might not have been the best in the game (though for a couple of seasons, I think he was), but there was always the possibility that he busts one out of the stadium.

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

[Forever Young]

Mays, Willians, Musial, Aaron all better hitters, but they weren’t superhuman like The Mick.

Non of these players had an injury their rookie year like the Mick NOR were they SWITCH HITTERS.

[packs]

Nor were they interesting. What salacious and extravagant stories have you heard about Stan Musial?

[Nick55]

I never saw Mantle play. He retired a few days before I was born. I don't have any more emotional interest in or connection to him than I do any other talented players of his day like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, or Roberto Clemente. I never saw any of them play either. His playing day cards are of interest to me only because they are worth a lot, are a good investment, and have bragging rights tied to them. I buy them for those purposes only. If they were weren't worth much, I wouldn't really care about owning them. I'm just being honest, and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this view.

Now Dave Kingman, that was the player I admired as a kid. I actually saw him play. I collect his cards because I admired his abilities and "connected" with him as a kid. His cards happen to be inexpensive, but whatever. I still like them.

[ALR-bishop]

Nor were they interesting. What salacious and extravagant stories have you heard about Stan Musial?

He would on occasion steal a base

[CMIZ5290]

Steve, Really?? This is Mickey Mantle....I thought you were a better baseball historian than that....

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

I don't think that's fair. I think over time Mays became more reticent and later in life was by most accounts often sullen, but as a young man from what I can tell he had lots of charisma and played the game with an unrivaled joie de vivre.

[bigfish]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

???????

[jchcollins]

Haha are these real?

EDIT: This can't be real, but great spoof.



It’s real. It’s his handwriting, and the rest of the historical details line up...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jobu]

The Mickey Mantle obsession I understand. Derek Jeter I do not.

[jchcollins]

The comparison with Ryan is one I hadn't considered but is very useful for collectors of my generation (X) to consider the question through. I am a huge Ryan fan. I recognize that there were better pitchers in his generation. Doesn't matter. Statistics do not define the appeal of Nolan Ryan. It was just so exciting every time he went to the mound. Seaver or Carlton was a better pitcher but there wasn't the potential for a 10+ K no-no whenever he went up there. With Ryan, you never knew, other than you were going to see an explosive fastball and a wicked curve and the hitters were going to catch him or not. He was a gunslinger as a starter. What appealed to me is that from 72-79 he led the league in K's seven times but also walked the most batters six times and is #1 all time in fewest hits per 9 innings. He has the most Ks and the most BBs and the most no-hitters in history. It was crazy fun whenever he went out there: if a player got on it was rare for the next guy to do much with it. I suspect Mantle was the same way: he might not have been the best in the game (though for a couple of seasons, I think he was), but there was always the possibility that he busts one out of the stadium.

It's charisma: you can't fake it. Mantle had it. Mays not.

Agreed on the Ryan comparison. Ryan was the closest thing my generation had (I'm also X but late X...) to Mantle. I'm 41 and started collecting in 1986. My first person in the hobby like that was, well...Mantle - because he was still alive, doing shows, and routinely graced the "hot" list in each month's Beckett when it came in the mail. When I was about 10 or 11 years old, the kid down the street traded me an absoulety destroyed, water-damaged '65 Topps Mantle #350. I was on cloud 9 for weeks - figuring I had just landed something that should be on display in Cooperstown. After Nolan went to the Rangers in '89 and the handwriting on the wall for all the marks he stood to break became apparent, he was solid gold. There was no more popular player in the sport of baseball - and even after he retired in the hobby - for the next 5-7 years probably.

I never thought of it this way, but yes - there are some players, a select few per generation - that can transcend like that. Mantle and Nolan are probably the two most notable in the card hobby today - that would be my argument at least.

[frankbmd]

I also think the OP's question was fair. I've thought about it a lot, and certainly understand his immense popularity among Baby Boomers and those slightly older. Plus, it's just a classic and iconic Baseball Name... "Mickey Mantle". Perhaps second only to Babe Ruth, in terms of generating immediate name recognition, and having a certain "ring" to it.

But I do wonder how his values will hold up after the Baby Boom generation has passed. That will leave nobody who actually saw him play, or idolized/admired him in the ways described above. I think there may be a lesser premium placed on Mantle, with a decline starting around the year 2030 or so.

Just my humble opinion, and only time will tell.


Yeah, his chief competitor name-wise was Mickey Mouse, who hasn't faired too badly either, but couldn't hit the curve I'm told.

[jchcollins]

It’s real. It’s his handwriting, and the rest of the historical details line up...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I actually looked at the link that was posted. The '73 letter (the BJ story) I have always understood to be real. The other things up there are in different handwriting (but with the same signature) and those look to me to be fakes.

[bnorth]

The Mickey Mantle obsession I understand. Derek Jeter I do not.

I don't understand the Mickey Mantle obsession, probably because he retired about the same time I was born. So I never got to see him play or be part of the excitement of all the WS rings.

Now Derek Jeter I completely understand. At first I hated on him but after watching him play for many years I learned to highly respect his game. Just name 1 person who tried harder every day on the field than he did.:)

[Rich Falvo]

I don't think it's an either/or debate. I do understand the appeal of Mantle. But I am also sometimes surprised at the prices of some of his cards, especially his common 60's Topps base cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Jeter is easy to understand. New York Yankees is about 50 percent and the other half is that in an era of drugs, prima donnas, and a$$holes, he was the clean-cut, squeaky clean, respectful, modest All American young man. And having a foil in ARod just highlighted those qualities all the more, particularly when he did well in post-season and for a while ARod underperformed.

[MVSNYC]

Jeter is easy to understand. New York Yankees is about 50 percent and the other half is that in an era of drugs, prima donnas, and a$$holes, he was the clean-cut, squeaky clean, respectful, modest All American young man.

He also had a strong work ethic, was clutch, and has the 6th most hits all-time.

[Directly]

The year was 1964, the first year I began to collect baseball cards. Being a paper boy after receiving my large salary of $3.00 I would race to the local drug store to spend all my hard earned money --loved the Gum, and the little metal coins storing them for safe keeping inside a brown grocery bag. Around this time upon visiting my older cousin I advised my passion--Donnie advised he had a bag full and trotted up into the attic to retrieve those hundred or so little pieces of cardboard gold--upon opening the sack he began to sort them--when he came upon a double he would hand it to me, saying you can have it---WOW--never before had I seen those type of baseball cards, turned out they were all mint 1957 Topps. After completing his task at hand, I mentioned, you have two Mantles--can I have one, you have two? NO he
replied in a rather stern youthful voice--No way that's Mickey Mantle---

So the first Mantle I pulled was the the same year, 1964 so to protect my rare find, with a nickel I purchase a holder from a vending machine and laminated my prize!!

[vthobby]

The year was 1964, the first year I began to collect baseball cards. Being a paper boy after receiving my large salary of $3.00 I would race to the local drug store to spend all my hard earned money --loved the Gum, and the little metal coins storing them for safe keeping inside a brown grocery bag. Around this time upon visiting my older cousin I advised my passion--Donnie advised he had a bag full and trotted up into the attic to retrieve those hundred or so little pieces of cardboard gold--upon opening the sack he began to sort them--when he came upon a double he would hand it to me, saying you can have it---WOW--never before had I seen those type of baseball cards, turned out they were all mint 1957 Topps. After completing his task at hand, I mentioned, you have two Mantles--can I have one, you have two? NO he
replied in a rather stern youthful voice--No way that's Mickey Mantle---

So the first Mantle I pulled was the the same year, 1964 so to protect my rare find, with a nickel I purchase a holder from a vending machine and laminated my prize!!

Thanks for sharing. My 1st packs were 1976. 7 for $1.05. I had a reverse trade story, my "friend" offered me a stack of 30 cards for just 1 of my cards. I'm like who the heck is Henry Aaron? I was young and not too into the game but that start got me into it so bad that it is a large part of my life today. Live, breathe, sleep collectibles! Thanks again for sharing!

Peace, Mike

PS Quick related trivia....what HOF player started in the same city that he retired in BUT played there for 2 separate teams? .............Henry "Hank" Aaron, Milwaukee Braves and Milwaukee Brewers! Love that trivia question! :)

[vthobby]

He also had a strong work ethic, was clutch, and has the 6th most hits all-time.

MVSNYC,

I'm a Red Sox fan but a lover of baseball and this really sums Jeter up perfectly. The fact that he stayed with 1 team (loyalty) also makes me like him. So rare this day and age!

Peace, Mike

[ajquigs]

With Mantle, I've always felt a big part of it was being a fixture in baseball's main event year after year after year.
He spent a whole lot of time in a whole lot of people's living rooms, in glorious black & white.

[edjs]

He's the Bobby Orr of baseball.

[egri]

PS Quick related trivia....what HOF player started in the same city that he retired in BUT played there for 2 separate teams? .............Henry "Hank" Aaron, Milwaukee Braves and Milwaukee Brewers! Love that trivia question! :)

Also Willie Mays (NY Giants and Mets)

[mr2686]

Also Willie Mays (NY Giants and Mets)

Also Babe Ruth (1914 Boston Red sox, 1935 Boston Braves

[rats60]

Also Babe Ruth (1914 Boston Red sox, 1935 Boston Braves

Ron Santo Chicago Cubs and White Sox.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hornsby -- St. Louis Cardinals and Browns.

[oldjudge]

Mickey Mantle was a great ballplayer. I think his position as face of the modern hobby comes from a few factors beyond his on field play. First, as a member of the Yankees, he was in the World Series virtually every year between 1950 and 1964, the years when baby boomers grew up. At that time, there was very little national baseball coverage. You saw your local team, the all star game, and the World Series. Mickey got to be seen all around the country, not just his local market(albeit the biggest in the country and the media center). The color barrier in baseball had just been broken. Many teams early in Mantle’s career had not yet been integrated. In fact, the Yankees did not bring up Elston Howard until 1955. I think Mantle’s popularity at that time over Mays reflected racial views more so than talent. Also, Mantle got a pass from the press on his off field activities. This pass lasted throughout most of his life, decades after he stopped playing. He was an alcoholic and a philanderer, yet the press portrayed him as an All American boy.
Why have his cards become the face of the post war hobby? I think it is boomer memories and a concerted effort, initially by dealers and now by collectors with vested interests, to hype his cards. What mystifies me the most is how, years after Mantle and DiMaggio have retired, that suddenly Mantle is viewed as the better of the two. When I was growing up in the 1950s and early 1960s, DiMaggio was always thought of as the superior player. Even in 1999, when the fans chose the all century team, DiMaggio received more votes than Mantle. They were comparable hitters, but DiMaggio was a much superior fielder.

[clydepepper]

Put Simply, his accent occurred at the same time Televisions became more common in the average household. Thus, he became the hero of hoards of 'Baby-Boomers'.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Put Simply, his accent occurred at the same time Televisions became more common in the average household. Thus, he became the hero of hoards of 'Baby-Boomers'.

I thought he had a pretty regular voice.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I thought he had a pretty regular voice.I see what you did there...;)

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[clydepepper]

Oops! Very Funny.

At least I didn't say ass scent...whew, now that would have been worse.

[CMIZ5290]

What is the obsession with Mantle? Let's see....He was only 5'10 170 lbs., and could hit a baseball 500 feet. He was also the fastest player in the game, and lived a lifestyle that people only dreamed about.....Yea, what's the big deal?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Oh, by the way, he could get any woman he wanted!!

[clydepepper]

What is the obsession with Mantle? He was only 5'10 170 lbs., and could hit a baseball 500 feet. He was also the fastest player in the game, and lived a lifestyle that people only dreamed about.....Yea, what's the big deal?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



One of the highlights, IMO, in the Ken Burn's Doc. was an infield play where Mickey was flying down the first base line...faster than I could imagine! A REAL WOW! moment!

.

[oldjudge]

What is the obsession with Mantle? Let's see....He was only 5'10 170 lbs., and could hit a baseball 500 feet. He was also the fastest player in the game, and lived a lifestyle that people only dreamed about.....Yea, what's the big deal?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Oh, by the way, he could get any woman he wanted!!


LOL-He was 5'11'' and 195lbs, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. He had all the talent in the world. However, as great as he was, he could have been better if he only took care of himself. That is the real tragedy of Mantle. I hired Mantle for a customer dinner in 1992. Till he got a few drinks in him he was a sullen guy. After a few drinks he was great.

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL-He was 5'11'' and 195lbs, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. He had all the talent in the world. However, as great as he was, he could have been better if he only took care of himself. That is the real tragedy of Mantle. I hired Mantle for a customer dinner in 1992. Till he got a few drinks in him he was a sullen guy. After a few drinks he was great.

As he supposedly said, if I had known I would live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

[CMIZ5290]

LOL-He was 5'11'' and 195lbs, but don't let that get in the way of a good story. He had all the talent in the world. However, as great as he was, he could have been better if he only took care of himself. That is the real tragedy of Mantle. I hired Mantle for a customer dinner in 1992. Till he got a few drinks in him he was a sullen guy. After a few drinks he was great.

Wonder what Ruth would have done then?? 900 HR's?? Jimmie Foxx, 700 HR's?

[CMIZ5290]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

So you would trade Mantle even for Robinson with both players being the same age??

[clydepepper]

As he supposedly said, if I had known I would live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.



Funny, I'm feeling the same way these days.


But, I'm a year younger (than he was) and my knees are still good...

.

[Gary Dunaier]

Let us also not fail to acknowledge perhaps the most important factor in the popularity of Mickey Mantle. Tony Basil's record about him. We know it's about him because he is singing "Oh, Mickey, you're so fine, you blow my mind, hey Mickey!" And the name of the song is also called "Mickey" so there is no ambiguity. THAT is the real reason why Mickey Mantle is so beloved to this day.

:D

(Just engaging in a little verbal misbehavior with y'all. I know that song has nothing to do with Mickey Mantle. And I know the singer's name is Toni, not Tony, and Toni is a woman and not a man. Just a few more hi-jinks and zany antics to brighten your day. :) )

[ls7plus]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

I think I would do a little sabermetric research, Steve. Mantle is one of just 7 players in the history of the game to produce more than 200% of league average runs created (credit to Bill James, who ranks Mantle as the 5th best major league player of all time). His 215% in that category, going by recollection, is tied for third with Lou Gehrig, behind only Ruth, at 240%, and Williams, at 250%. His OBPS+ of 172 is fifth best of all time, I believe (behind, going by memory, only Ruth at 204; Williams at 190; Hornsby at 175; and Gehrig at 174), considerably ahead of Mays (156) and Aaron (155). His on base percentage alone--.421--is among the very best of all time, far beyond Mays and Aaron, who were each in the .380 range. Per James in the early 2000's, his 1961 season--54 HR's, 128 RBI, .317 BA, 126 walks, .448 OBP--although great stats, and ranked by James as the 15th best season of all time, is MERELY MANTLE'S THIRD BEST SEASON (both his 1956 triple crown year and his 1957 season were better)!. Add in 12 pennants in his first 14 seasons to go with 7 world championships = Mantle don't give up nothin' to nobody (or at least very, very little!). In short, objectively, there is absolutely no OBJECTIVE dispute that he does indeed rank with the greatest to ever play the game.

James also wrote that although Mantle and Mays appeared to have similar production in their peak years, Mays was actually making about 60 or more outs per year than Mantle, based on the fact that the Mick walked, much, much more often (hence the higher OBP) and grounded into roughly just half as many double plays.

I haven't read through every previous post at this somewhat late hour, but if your first post was in jest, as the objective stats indicate that it might well have been, please excuse the above dissertation. I do agree, however, that his '52 Topps, although iconic, is overpriced. A near mint example, for instance, was priced at around $30,000 in 1991, and hence has only increased in value in the 5 to 6% compounded annually range, having had its ups and downs, as one would expect, considering its' ready availability. A really good collectible should be at least 10% or better compounded annually through the last 25 years or so if purchased for investment purposes.

Best wishes,

Larry

[oldjudge]

Batting third for the Yankees, Mantle’s most important job was to knock in runs. In his 18 seasons he finished with 1509 RBIs. In less seasons those all time greats Carlos Delgado, Jeff Kent, Jeff Bagwell and Harry Hellmann had more RBIs. Lou Gehrig had 473 more RBIs in two less seasons. DiMaggio had more RBIs than Mantle and he played five fewer years.

[ls7plus]

Nice try, but all of those pure counting numbers are context dependent, i.e. directly related to the conditions under which the game in those respective eras was being played, and the relative ease or difficulty in scoring runs. A proper comparison, entails the use of statistics which control for the difference in those conditions. Those that I have used above perform exactly that function.

Sincerely,

Larry

[oldjudge]

Larry, I repeat, Mantle’s job batting third for the Yankees was to drive in runs. I took a look at one of the players I mentioned, Harry Hellmann, and compared his impact on his team to the impact of Mantle on his. What I compared was, over the course of their careers what percentage of their teams runs did the knock in. Interestingly, Mantle knocked in 12% of the Yankees runs. Hellmann, hardly the face of the hobby, knocked in 14% of his team’s runs.
In 1961, after he had left the Yankees, Casey Stengel put together a list of the greatest players he had seen, by league, at each position. He listed three American League center fielders: Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio. Mantle didn’t even get an honorable mention.

[Vintageclout]

Larry, I repeat, Mantle’s job batting third for the Yankees was to drive in runs. I took a look at one of the players I mentioned, Harry Hellmann, and compared his impact on his team to the impact of Mantle on his. What I compared was, over the course of their careers what percentage of their teams runs did the knock in. Interestingly, Mantle knocked in 12% of the Yankees runs. Hellmann, hardly the face of the hobby, knocked in 14% of his team’s runs.
In 1961, after he had left the Yankees, Casey Stengel put together a list of the greatest players he had seen, by league, at each position. He listed three American League center fielders: Tris Speaker, Ty Cobb and Joe DiMaggio. Mantle didn’t even get an honorable mention.

Interesting that you brought up Harry Heilmann. One of the most underrated hitters of all-time. In the 1920s, he had one .403 season and batted over .390 three other seasons to the tune of a .342 lifetime average. 5 separate seasons exceeded a 1.000 OPS. Hornsby & Cobb-like figures. Incredible numbers. One could easily argue that along with Hornsby, Foxx, Aaron, Ramirez, Pujols and Cabrera, he resides as one of baseball’s greatest all-time right-handed hitters.

[rats60]

I think I would do a little sabermetric research, Steve. Mantle is one of just 7 players in the history of the game to produce more than 200% of league average runs created (credit to Bill James, who ranks Mantle as the 5th best major league player of all time). His 215% in that category, going by recollection, is tied for third with Lou Gehrig, behind only Ruth, at 240%, and Williams, at 250%. His OBPS+ of 172 is fifth best of all time, I believe (behind, going by memory, only Ruth at 204; Williams at 190; Hornsby at 175; and Gehrig at 174), considerably ahead of Mays (156) and Aaron (155). His on base percentage alone--.421--is among the very best of all time, far beyond Mays and Aaron, who were each in the .380 range. Per James in the early 2000's, his 1961 season--54 HR's, 128 RBI, .317 BA, 126 walks, .448 OBP--although great stats, and ranked by James as the 15th best season of all time, is MERELY MANTLE'S THIRD BEST SEASON (both his 1956 triple crown year and his 1957 season were better)!. Add in 12 pennants in his first 14 seasons to go with 7 world championships = Mantle don't give up nothin' to nobody (or at least very, very little!). In short, objectively, there is absolutely no OBJECTIVE dispute that he does indeed rank with the greatest to ever play the game.

James also wrote that although Mantle and Mays appeared to have similar production in their peak years, Mays was actually making about 60 or more outs per year than Mantle, based on the fact that the Mick walked, much, much more often (hence the higher OBP) and grounded into roughly just half as many double plays.

I haven't read through every previous post at this somewhat late hour, but if your first post was in jest, as the objective stats indicate that it might well have been, please excuse the above dissertation. I do agree, however, that his '52 Topps, although iconic, is overpriced. A near mint example, for instance, was priced at around $30,000 in 1991, and hence has only increased in value in the 5 to 6% compounded annually range, having had its ups and downs, as one would expect, considering its' ready availability. A really good collectible should be at least 10% or better compounded annually through the last 25 years or so if purchased for investment purposes.

Best wishes,

Larry

Bill James has Mantle 6th. He has Mays 3rd behind only Ruth and Wagner. So why isn't Willie Mays the face of post-war baseball cards? It is a valid question.

[Snapolit1]

Maybe 400 or 500 posts from now someone will get close to the actual reason. I will stay tuned.

[MVSNYC]

Maybe 400 or 500 posts from now someone will get close to the actual reason. I will stay tuned.

Bob Costas explained it in post #22.

[MattyC]

Maybe 400 or 500 posts from now someone will get close to the actual reason. I will stay tuned.

Plenty of posts in this thread have mentioned the myriad reasons why Mantle occupies the lofty perch he does in the Post War card world. If you’re looking for one mathematical reason, you won’t be getting that kind of answer. It is a confluence of many factors, many of which involve what some call the intangibles. With a modicum of effort it’s not so hard to grasp.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill James has Mantle 6th. He has Mays 3rd behind only Ruth and Wagner. So why isn't Willie Mays the face of post-war baseball cards? It is a valid question.

He didn't play for the Yankees, he wasn't in the WS every year, he didn't have the mystique of overcoming handicapping pain, and he wasn't blonde with folk hero looks.

[Johnny630]

The obsession is money, bottom line period. His cards hold value everyone wants them. Beautiful ones sell, ones that have been ran over buy a tuck sell....it’s crazy but we all know it’s true. Mantle and Ruth are two names that will always be the last card a collector wants to sell.

[guy3050]

The obsession is money, bottom line period. His cards hold value everyone wants them. Beautiful ones sell, ones that have been ran over buy a tuck sell....it’s crazy but we all know it’s true. Mantle and Ruth are two names that will always be the last card a collector wants to sell.

Not according To Ebay

https://www.ebay.com/sch/212/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=mickey+mantle&_sop=16

[GaryPassamonte]

Mantle was the right player at the right time on the right team and had that intangible- charisma, agreeing with Adam. King Kelly wasn't the best player of his time, but was probably the most popular and his card values reflect that fact. His Four Base Hit card may be the "King" of 19th century issues, with mention to the Old Judge Anson in uniform and the Just So Young. Charisma.

[Nick55]

What's interesting to me is that even Mantle himself couldn't answer the question posed by the O.P. (Costas mentions that in the eulogy at the link in post #22). I think the reason for the difficulty in finding an answer, at least in part, is that everyone is looking just at Mantle. But, I think it's not just about Mantle and all of his abilities and accomplishments as great as they were. It's that and way more. For all of the various reasons mentioned in this thread, America (and New York, especially, for obvious reasons) in the '50's and '60's, projected themselves onto him. He was one of them, in a way. They made him their hero and rallied around him. They chose him. He became the glue that bound them together as a community. And he's the shared memory of the '50's and '60's for many. There's absolutely value in that. Those who lived it will pay to buy into that "community" and memory again. Those who didn't but have families members who did, will also pay into that "community." Those who have heard the stories will do the same. And up the price goes. It's all good in that sense. Kind of reminds me of the movie "Field of Dreams" a bit. Same thing. Just my opinion, of course.

[aconte]

It's 2018, I don't need a reason. He's the best.

When a non-collecting friend hears I collect cards, normally the first question
asked is "Do you got any Mantles?" If you feel, his cards aren't worth owning
this is fine. I'm sure there are a couple others that would agree. Most that
think his cards are worth having may not have seen him play except on
film.

Maybe fifty years from now, no one will care. But I'm betting if Mantle
cards aren't chased after and are worth much less, then all the other
Mays, Aarons, Robinsons, Clementes, etc will be worth less too.

[WWG]

'nuff said'

Awards
Hall Of Fame
Year Team League
1974 NY Yankees

Uniform number retired
Year Team League
1969 NY Yankees

AL MVP
Year Team League
1956 NY Yankees
1957 NY Yankees
1962 NY Yankees

World Series Championship
Year Team League
1951 NY Yankees
1952 NY Yankees
1953 NY Yankees
1956 NY Yankees
1958 NY Yankees
1961 NY Yankees
1962 NY Yankees

AL All-Star
Year Team League
1952 NY Yankees
1953 NY Yankees
1954 NY Yankees
1955 NY Yankees
1956 NY Yankees
1957 NY Yankees
1958 NY Yankees
1959 NY Yankees
1959 NY Yankees
1960 NY Yankees
1960 NY Yankees
1961 NY Yankees
1961 NY Yankees
1962 NY Yankees
1962 NY Yankees
1963 NY Yankees
1964 NY Yankees
1965 NY Yankees
1967 NY Yankees
1968 NY Yankees

Rawlings AL Gold Glove
Year Team League
1962 NY Yankees

[Exhibitman]

Interesting that you brought up Harry Heilmann. One of the most underrated hitters of all-time. In the 1920s, he had one .403 season and batted over .390 three other seasons to the tune of a .342 lifetime average. 5 separate seasons exceeded a 1.000 OPS. Hornsby & Cobb-like figures. Incredible numbers. One could easily argue that along with Hornsby, Foxx, Aaron, Ramirez, Pujols and Cabrera, he resides as one of baseball’s greatest all-time right-handed hitters.

Just wanted to acknowledge the props for HH

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/Heilmann.jpg

[aconte]

Harry Heilmann

Most people have no idea who this guy is.

Most collectors know the name Scott Hileman of SGC better than Harry
(not here of course).

So you can't be surprised why Harry and most other players take a major
back seat when it comes to card prices of Mick.

[Bestdj777]

We also need links to all the other threads in which someone has raised this question :)

I collect sets. If he is in a set, I need him. If he has a variation in a set, like 52 and 67 (3), I need those too.

I have seen the debate about why his premium is bigger than other stars both here on the main board and on the post war board, and on CU and other boards

It seems to me people who don't have his cards think they are overpriced and are waiting for the market to correct, while those who have them hope the market continues to climb. So far the haves have it.

Al, I’m pretty sure you collect Mantle and then just fill out the rest of the sets so you don’t put yourself as a closet fan of his :)

I agree with your last sentiment. Fingers crossed the market continues to climb now that I have everything I could find/afford.

[Throttlesteer]

Most people have no idea who this guy is.

Most collectors know the name Scott Hileman of SGC better than Harry
(not here of course).

So you can't be surprised why Harry and most other players take a major
back seat when it comes to card prices of Mick.

Arguably the best HOFer that your average fan has never heard of. Not a lot of Slug cards out there.

[CMIZ5290]

Most people have no idea who this guy is.

Most collectors know the name Scott Hileman of SGC better than Harry
(not here of course).

So you can't be surprised why Harry and most other players take a major
back seat when it comes to card prices of Mick.

delete

[1treasuretrove]

I found this in a 1950's scrapbook I picked up this week, thought it was pretty cool:

[DeanH3]

Mickey only received 88.2% of the BBWAA votes. How good could have really been? :eek:

just so I don't get flamed, yes that was sarcasm. ;) Crazy he only 88.2% of the vote.

[clydepepper]

Bill James has Mantle 6th. He has Mays 3rd behind only Ruth and Wagner. So why isn't Willie Mays the face of post-war baseball cards? It is a valid question.


RACE, my friend, RACE

[CW]

What's interesting to me is that even Mantle himself couldn't answer the question posed by the O.P. (Costas mentions that in the eulogy at the link in post #22). I think the reason for the difficulty in finding an answer, at least in part, is that everyone is looking just at Mantle. But, I think it's not just about Mantle and all of his abilities and accomplishments as great as they were. It's that and way more. For all of the various reasons mentioned in this thread, America (and New York, especially, for obvious reasons) in the '50's and '60's, projected themselves onto him. He was one of them, in a way. They made him their hero and rallied around him. They chose him. He became the glue that bound them together as a community. And he's the shared memory of the '50's and '60's for many. There's absolutely value in that. Those who lived it will pay to buy into that "community" and memory again. Those who didn't but have families members who did, will also pay into that "community." Those who have heard the stories will do the same. And up the price goes. It's all good in that sense. Kind of reminds me of the movie "Field of Dreams" a bit. Same thing. Just my opinion, of course.

Excellent post and a very interesting take on the discussion.

[rats60]

RACE, my friend, RACE

Then why aren't Jackie Robinson and Roberto Clemente cards cheap? They are black and their cards are worth more than Ted Williams.

[Mark70Z]

RACE, my friend, RACE

It may have to do with race with certain individuals, but I wouldn’t collect anything Mays because, in my experience, he’s just not a nice person. I couldn’t collect someone that I didn’t like off the field as well as on. That’s just me though.

[barrysloate]

Although Mantle struggled early in his career, he was known for hitting prodigious home runs, most famously the 565-foot blast at Griffith Stadium in 1953, and the ball that nearly went out of Yankee Stadium, just missing when it hit the top of the facade in right field. These blasts help cement his Paul Bunyon reputation, but it was just one factor of many.

He was a blue-eyed blonde-haired kid from the hardscrabble town of Commerce, Oklahoma, who came to the big city and became its hero; he played for the best team in baseball, which won the World Series nearly every year; he played in the 1950's, arguably one of the Golden Ages of baseball; and he won back-to-back MVP's, including the Triple Crown in 1956. All of these things, including others, cemented his legendary status.

If you grew up in the 1950's and 60's and followed baseball, you would understand why Mantle was so beloved. Just looking at his stats today only tells a part of the story.

[KCRfan1]

To coat tail on Barry's comment, Mantle played in New York - the media capital of the world. Not just in print but television as well despite TV being in its infancy.

It was a perfect storm.

A blond blue eyed, good looking kid, playing the National pastime in the media capital of the world. Most of the population of the country was within 800 miles of NY, so it's easy to see how Mantle was known. Taking over centerfield that was played by an icon, Joe DiMaggio.

The Yankees were perennial pennant winners.

Our heroes were larger than life then, free from media scrutiny. There was no internet or cellphone, instant news, "gotcha" moments.

I couldn't tell you a sports persona today that's even close to Mantle.

[Case12]

In the 60's my first bat was a Mickey Mantle. Like all kids I almost slept with that bat and stared at his name falling asleep. He was legendary to me. To add to this for me was Johnny Bench. My first glove was a Bench catchers mit. Everytime I oiled it, put it under the matress or caught a ball I saw his name. For a baby boomer these names remain nostalgic to me.

And for real I put bubblegum cards in the spokes of my bicycle wheels with clothes pens. Who knows how many special cards got that 'sensation' for a young kid.

[Case12]

BTW, Bart Starr holds that same nostalgia for me. I fell asleep starring at his poster every night. (Now moving into my early teens the poster was replaced with Farah Fawcett. ...won't share the details of that one :-)

[ls7plus]

Bill James has Mantle 6th. He has Mays 3rd behind only Ruth and Wagner. So why isn't Willie Mays the face of post-war baseball cards? It is a valid question.

No. As I stated, James has Mantle as the 5th best MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYER of all time. He has Oscar Charleston ahead of the Mick, but Oscar never played in even a single major league game. In addition, much of the earlier Negro Leagues' schedules included games with semi-pro teams, against whom Oscar would have had a big-time edge. As I've said before, James denies he was being politically correct, but Oscar's rating by necessity must be based on hearsay many times over, myth, smoke and illusion. It certainly has no evidentiary foundation, though I'm sure Charleston was indeed a very good player.

Best wishes, Rats 60. Nice to see you speak Bill James quite fluently,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

I question ranking Mantle ahead of Ted, although it's only by one place.

Speaking of James, at this point I guess he's not going to update his all time great book from the late 90s, too bad it would be fascinating.

[ls7plus]

I question ranking Mantle ahead of Ted, although it's only by one place.

Speaking of James, at this point I guess he's not going to update his all time great book from the late 90s, too bad it would be fascinating.

To me, and I think James, Mantle gets the nod because of his greater value on defense. Having seen him in his prime, he was indeed, as James describes him, a very, very good centerfielder and better baserunner. From a purely offensive value standpoint, it is Ted by about 14% going by James' runs created formula versus league average player, and by about 9.5% by the less accurate OPS+.

Highest regards,

Larry

[ronniehatesjazz]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

Think if Mike Trout played on the Yankees dynasty from mid 90’s to early 00’s. Maybe not the perfect analogy but the best I could come up with.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Trout's a good analogy but IMO people just don't relate to the modern day superstars with their mega-salaries and agents and entourages the same way they related to players of the past like Mantle who were not levels removed socioeconomically or otherwise from the fan base.

[ls7plus]

Trout's a good analogy but IMO people just don't relate to the modern day superstars with their mega-salaries and agents and entourages the same way they related to players of the past like Mantle who were not levels removed socioeconomically or otherwise from the fan base.

Trout seems to be very much a down-to-earth kind of guy who might well be almost there if his team could pile up the pennants and world championships that Mantle's Yankees did. He's not quite Mantle yet, though, as he's in his prime and has yet to match any of the Mick's top 3 seasons. He's still got time, though. In any event, he gives us a bit of a look at how a young Mantle would have been viewed (fawned over?) from a modern analytical perspective on shows like MLB Now and MLB Tonight.

Regards,

Larry

[rats60]

Trout's a good analogy but IMO people just don't relate to the modern day superstars with their mega-salaries and agents and entourages the same way they related to players of the past like Mantle who were not levels removed socioeconomically or otherwise from the fan base.

Trout lacks the big seasons like Mantle had in 56, 57, 61 and he lacks the postseason success. Mantle breaking Babe Ruth's World Series record of 15 home runs was a big factor in his popularity.

[tedzan]

Trout lacks the big seasons like Mantle had in 56, 57, 61 and he lacks the postseason success. Mantle breaking Babe Ruth's World Series record of 15 home runs was a big factor in his popularity.


rats60
Your point is well spoken....the difference between Mickey Mantle and other stars in the post-WWII era is his clutch performance in the 12 World Series (1951-1964) he played in.

Especially, Game 5 of the 1953 W.S. (which I remember as it was yesterday) when he hit a Grand Slam into the upper deck of Ebbets Field. Here's the link to that Grand Slam.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_World_Series#/media/File:Mickey_Mantle_1953_World_Series_Grand_Slam.jp eg

You guys must realize that the World Series of those years were watched (or heard) by many Millions of BB fans, young and old…...and, Mantle was the Man.

I was in Jr. H.S. in the 1950's, and when the World Series started at noon everyday, our teacher would set up a large radio in the classroom so we could listen to the World Series.
Those were the days.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Can you imagine a teacher doing that today, CNN would be investigating, people would be screaming how it stigmatized kids who were not baseball fans, doubtless there would be a cultural offense in there somewhere, the teacher would be fired, lawsuits would follow.

[Stonepony]

rats60
Your point is well spoken....the difference between Mickey Mantle and other stars in the post-WWII era is his clutch performance in the 12 World Series (1951-1964) he played in.

Especially, Game 5 of the 1953 W.S. (which I remember as it was yesterday) when he hit a Grand Slam into the upper deck of Ebbets Field. Here's the link to that Grand Slam.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_World_Series#/media/File:Mickey_Mantle_1953_World_Series_Grand_Slam.jp eg

You guys must realize that the World Series of those years were watched (or heard) by many Millions of BB fans, young and old…...and, Mantle was the Man.


I was in Jr. H.S. in the 1950's, and when the World Series started at noon everyday, our teacher would set up a large radio in the classroom so we could listen to the World Series.
Those were the days.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

When I was in grade school I remember TV sets being set up in the lunch room for late 60s, very early 70s afternoon post season games

[barrysloate]

Back then WS games were played during the day and everyone got excited about it. Today games end on the East Coast near midnight, and often well past midnight. And more fans are starting to tune out the game with each passing year. What a shame on major league baseball.

[rats60]

When I was in grade school I remember TV sets being set up in the lunch room for late 60s, very early 70s afternoon post season games

For us it was Dodger post season games only. Otherwise, I had to run home as fast as I could to catch as much of the end of game as possible.

Ted makes a good point about televised World Series games which started in 1947. Part of the greatness of Mantle, Koufax, Gibson, Clemente, Reggie Jackson, etc. is those performances in October with the whole country watching. I have read many posts talking about how Lou Brock isn't a Hofer because of his 45.3 WAR. However, to those who watched him dominated in the 1967 & 1968 World Series with 25 hits and 14 stolen bases see his 1st ballot selection justified.

[samosa4u]

plus there is this letter.
Warning : Defintely not suitable for work.

https://www.somethingawful.com/news/micks-lost-letters/

sent from my sm-g955u using tapatalk

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reads like the old Penthouse letters. "I'm a sophomore at a Midwestern college...."

Doubt they are real.

[irv]

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

[tedzan]

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/RizzutiMartinGilliamPhoto50x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/1952ToppsBillyMartin.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/RizzutoMartinGilliamPhototext50.jpg



TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Lordstan]

Mantle's popularity is really not that difficult to understand.
1) Played in New York.
2) When He played in NY, the team went through an amazing run of success. Because of this he got national exposure doing heroic things on the biggest stage.
3) Good Looking
4) He was on the team that STAYED in NY after the Giants and Dodgers both abandoned the town.
5) Because the others left, there was no one in NY to share the spotlight with until 1969, when the Mets won the WS and he retired.
6) He was generally thought of as a good guy who liked to have fun. (Much like Bill Clinton. A party boy who women loved and men wanted to be). The Charisma factor.
7) He was pleasant with the media and fans unlike Mays, Williams and Dimaggio.
8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.
9) He was a classic hero story. Someone of immense talent who suffered yet still overcame. Now some of the suffering was his own doing, but almost everyone who saw him play before the knee injury felt he could have been even better. Who doesn't love the aw shucks guy who is given a bad break but still finds a way to succeed? Sounds like about a bazillion movies I have seen.

PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

[pokerplyr80]

Not much to say that hasn't been said, but titles and post season play make a legend. Being the face of the Yankees for a decade or two doesn't hurt either.

To draw a modern parallel few would argue Jeter was a better player than Griffey. But he's more popular among collectors for many of the same reasons Mantle is favored over Mays. And he never won a triple crown or was thought of as the best player in the league.

I don't think race has much to do with either case now, but I'm sure it was a factor in the 50s and 60s.

[mantlefan]

My screen name says it all!

[rats60]

8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.


PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

I am not sure where you got #8. I got autographs from Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams several times and every time they were as nice as can be. Mickey Mantle was not. He was as bad as Mays. I don't see how you can say those things about Mays and not apply them to Mantle. When it came to family, Mantle was even worse.

[Lordstan]

I am not sure where you got #8. I got autographs from Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams several times and every time they were as nice as can be. Mickey Mantle was not. He was as bad as Mays. I don't see how you can say those things about Mays and not apply them to Mantle. When it came to family, Mantle was even worse.I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[irv]

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/RizzutiMartinGilliamPhoto50x.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/1952ToppsBillyMartin.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/RizzutoMartinGilliamPhototext50.jpg



TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

You're welcome, Ted. :)

Thanks for providing more info about the series and Billy Martin as well. Great childhood story!

I currently don't have a 52 Topps Billy Martin card in my collection but after reading this story and watching the vid, I am more eager now than ever to obtain one.

[ls7plus]

I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

DiMaggio was well-known for being quite the egotistical ass (see "Joe DiMaggio," by Richard Ben Cramer). I obtained May's autograph in Atlantic City in 1997, actually flying out there specifically for that very purpose (it may have been the last show he did--not sure), since he was one of my primary heroes in the '60's. I made sure to keep up with his fantastic 1965 season (.317, 52 HR, 112 RBI) every week in the Sporting News, and watched every time the Giants were on the Saturday Game of the Week.

I thanked Willie quite politely after he autographed my official NL ball, and I'm not sure--he may have grunted in return! But what the heck. What meant the most to me was that he was WILLIE MAYS!

For congeniality, it was hard to beat Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard and Hank Aaron!

Ah, the joys of collecting!

Larry

[Marc Simmons]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

Mantle was mythical. Kind of like Roy Hobbs.

[egri]

I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I never met Mantle or Mays, so I have no firsthand experience here, but it would seem to me that Mantle would get a pass more so than Mays, because regardless of who was worse, Mantle hasn’t been a jerk to anyone in 23 years. Mays was rude to somebody yesterday. Just my $0.02.

[JollyElm]

As a little kid, my idol was Willie Mays. He had been traded to the Mets and my dad would regale us with stories of how great he was as a NEW YORK Giant (my parents never got over the Giants and Dodgers leaving town). His 1972 card was the one every single kid wanted, even years later, and although he lost all of his steam, he was still considered godlike, as my friends and I would imitate his basket catch. Fast forward to the 80's and 90's and all I would ever hear is what a nasty a*shole he was in person, so I made a choice. I wanted my idol to remain as prominent in my mind as he was during my childhood, so the decision was made. As much as I wanted to see him in person, if he was appearing somewhere near me I simply wouldn't go and have my image of him shattered as he treated my autograph request with disdain. (With music, I had a similar, but not angry, attitude towards Pink Floyd. I love 'Wish You Were Here,' 'Animals,' 'Dark Side,' 'Meddle,' etc., so much that I chose never to see them in concert when the chance arose. Their music means so much to me that I simply didn't want to realize that it was 'simply' 4 English guys on a stage doing it. To me, it came from some sort of magical place. Your musical tastes may vary.) Of course, if you take my adoration for The Say Hey Kid and multiply it by millions of other people, then we can imagine what Mays has been faced with for more than half a century (I know, get a real problem). So as much as I hate to admit it, it's partially understandable why he became the way he is.

[ls7plus]

Mays had a saying: "You want me to meet you halfway, but there's a million or more of you and just one of me." In any event, it's virtually always unrealistic to expect a player of extremely high capabilities and stature (Bill James ranks Willie as the third best player of all time, and considering the peak quality production and the duration for which he stayed a very productive player, it would be difficult if not impossible to disagree--I certainly don't!) to present themselves as as good a person as they were as players. That would be a tremendously rare combo indeed. Kudo's to Mays--he remains highly undervalued IMHO.

Happy collecting and holidays,

Larry

[jsq]

before he screwed his leg up he was timed going to first base in 3.1 seconds. fastest guy today is probably 3.4?? look it up. every player who saw him before he screwed his leg up said the same thing, they had never seen anyone that fast on the bases.

as a 165 lb 17 yr old was hitting 450 ft home runs (think how much the mediocre high school or american legion pitcher did NOT help with piitching speed. what were those hacks throwing in rural oklahoma a whopping 85 mph, if you are a good player at 17 hitting an 85 mph fastball is easy and great for getting hits, getting distance.... not so much , so Mantle was providing most of the physics of the distance) as he got older and added 35 - 40 lbs he got stronger and better.

was a winner, teamates loved the guy and viewed him as the key to many of their pennants and world series. go look at some of those yankee teams lots of solid players but some other teams in the league were equally stacked yet could not touch the yankees.

on the negative side, not the brightest guy in the room, played football with his high school buddies on the injured leg after being told to stay off it completely and totally screwed himself. still put up monster numbers with one bum leg. your power comes from your legs. think that through very carefully. yet he still hit 500 plus homers when that still meant something before steroids and guys who play for 40 years (humour related to some of these guys that play forever and produce many good yrs but are not great players)

maybe most importantly mick was a hail fellow well met when sober. people liked him. i met him once with wife along and he was a joy to meet. nice. he was sober at the time.

popularity of a player has a LOT to do with the demand and price for his card. Willie, Joe D who i met and talked with about gambling at atlantic city and was quite nice to my wife and me, and Teddy Ballgame were all over the place as to how they interacted with their fans.

in contrast Mickey was pretty good for the most part, exceptions were when he was drunk and most fans did not interact with the mick when he was drunk. most interacted with the mick at card shows and generally he was a fun guy who met you with a smile and a kind word at the card shows.

just a few reasons his cards are so popular.

[Kenny Cole]

I thought he had a pretty regular voice.

Well, he was from eastern Oklahoma ....

[mr2686]

I had a Little League coach in 1971 that had been a roadie for Elvis. He used to tell me stories about Elvis and how he was the only person he'd ever met that just "lit up a room". Never quite understood until I met Mick. He was larger than life and could turn men of any age in to 8 year old boys. Every time I had the chance to see him at a show was a good experience...not so with Mays. Every interaction with Mays was like going to the dentist for a root canal. He would have a line around the block of people that were all very nice and respectful to him, yet he was a total prick to each and every one. The only other player to give him a run for his money in that regard is Pete Rose.

[CMIZ5290]

Mickey Mantle is the best of all time IMO.... 5'11 inches tall, maybe weighing 180 lbs....Was the fastest to first base, and could hit a baseball 500 feet. In addition to his baseball skills, women loved him, men wanted to be with him.....I ask you, what did Ruth have over that??

[Ricky]

DiMaggio could be... interesting... at card shows, as well. Not rude to fans, usually, but not friendly, either.

Back in 1985, I saw that DiMaggio was coming to sign at a card show near me. I was an artist, so I did an 11 x 14 pen and ink wash drawing of DiMaggio that was a large portrait along with a smaller action shot of him swinging the bat to the side of the portrait. I get to the show and there's a line snaking around the hall. There's DiMaggio, impeccably dressed in a three-piece suit and tie, sitting in the center of a six-foot table. There's a guy on his left and a guy on his right. The guy on the left would take the item from the person in line, put it in front of DiMaggio and DiMaggio, without looking up, would sign the item. Then the guy on the right would pick up the item and hand it back to it's owner.

I'm watching as I'm in the line approaching and DiMaggio never looked up, never made eye contact, never spoke to anyone. No personalization, just a fast, clockwork-like repetition. Finally, I get to the head of the line. I hand my drawing, which is on thick board, to the guy on the left, who puts it down in front of DiMaggio.

DiMaggio starts to bring his pen over to sign and does a double take. He picks up the drawing and stares at it. He looks up at me and says, "What is this?" I answer, "I drew that of you." He says, "You drew this?" I answered, "I did." He gives it another look and says, "Not bad," signs it, shakes my hand and hands it back to me. Completely cut out the guy on the right, who I have to say, looked a little hurt.

For the rest of the show, as I visited dealers at their tables, I kept glancing at DiMaggio and as far as I could see, he never broke the routine or spoke to anyone again. Because I had a unique piece that he had never seen before, it caused him to break the routine. He was so used to seeing the same photos of himself or balls or cards. Still a great memory.

[Hxcmilkshake]

DiMaggio could be... interesting... at card shows, as well. Not rude to fans, usually, but not friendly, either.



Back in 1985, I saw that DiMaggio was coming to sign at a card show near me. I was an artist, so I did an 11 x 14 pen and ink wash drawing of DiMaggio that was a large portrait along with a smaller action shot of him swinging the bat to the side of the portrait. I get to the show and there's a line snaking around the hall. There's DiMaggio, impeccably dressed in a three-piece suit and tie, sitting in the center of a six-foot table. There's a guy on his left and a guy on his right. The guy on the left would take the item from the person in line, put it in front of DiMaggio and DiMaggio, without looking up, would sign the item. Then the guy on the right would pick up the item and hand it back to it's owner.



I'm watching as I'm in the line approaching and DiMaggio never looked up, never made eye contact, never spoke to anyone. No personalization, just a fast, clockwork-like repetition. Finally, I get to the head of the line. I hand my drawing, which is on thick board, to the guy on the left, who puts it down in front of DiMaggio.



DiMaggio starts to bring his pen over to sign and does a double take. He picks up the drawing and stares at it. He looks up at me and says, "What is this?" I answer, "I drew that of you." He says, "You drew this?" I answered, "I did." He gives it another look and says, "Not bad," signs it, shakes my hand and hands it back to me. Completely cut out the guy on the right, who I have to say, looked a little hurt.



For the rest of the show, as I visited dealers at their tables, I kept glancing at DiMaggio and as far as I could see, he never broke the routine or spoke to anyone again. Because I had a unique piece that he had never seen before, it caused him to break the routine. He was so used to seeing the same photos of himself or balls or cards. Still a great memory.Thats an amazing story. Much like the guys who tell stories of shaking Sinatra's hand.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[TheNightmanCometh]

Seriously. There was this mythology about the 52 card being printed late and scads of them buried at sea. Now all sorts of other Mantle cards seem to be steadily increasing in value. What’s the obsession with Mantle? Are there a few hundred thousand Billy Crystal clones out there. Babe Ruth sure. Jackie sure. I get those. They are part of the fabric of American history. But Mantle was a big strong galoot who hit some amazing dingers. Not denigrating his stats, but don’t understand the collecting obsession around him.

I'm 39, born long after Mantle's hey day, and even I know why he's in such demand.

[TheNightmanCometh]

DiMaggio could be... interesting... at card shows, as well. Not rude to fans, usually, but not friendly, either.

Back in 1985, I saw that DiMaggio was coming to sign at a card show near me. I was an artist, so I did an 11 x 14 pen and ink wash drawing of DiMaggio that was a large portrait along with a smaller action shot of him swinging the bat to the side of the portrait. I get to the show and there's a line snaking around the hall. There's DiMaggio, impeccably dressed in a three-piece suit and tie, sitting in the center of a six-foot table. There's a guy on his left and a guy on his right. The guy on the left would take the item from the person in line, put it in front of DiMaggio and DiMaggio, without looking up, would sign the item. Then the guy on the right would pick up the item and hand it back to it's owner.

I'm watching as I'm in the line approaching and DiMaggio never looked up, never made eye contact, never spoke to anyone. No personalization, just a fast, clockwork-like repetition. Finally, I get to the head of the line. I hand my drawing, which is on thick board, to the guy on the left, who puts it down in front of DiMaggio.

DiMaggio starts to bring his pen over to sign and does a double take. He picks up the drawing and stares at it. He looks up at me and says, "What is this?" I answer, "I drew that of you." He says, "You drew this?" I answered, "I did." He gives it another look and says, "Not bad," signs it, shakes my hand and hands it back to me. Completely cut out the guy on the right, who I have to say, looked a little hurt.

For the rest of the show, as I visited dealers at their tables, I kept glancing at DiMaggio and as far as I could see, he never broke the routine or spoke to anyone again. Because I had a unique piece that he had never seen before, it caused him to break the routine. He was so used to seeing the same photos of himself or balls or cards. Still a great memory.

This comment is why this site needs a thumbs up to click.

[bmattioli]

Even us devote Redsox fans from my father on down have always been a Mantle fan.. Met him in Memphis at a show in '89 while stationed at Blytheville AFB. I'll never forget that day..

[GoldenAge50s]

--has fascinated me ever since 1948-49, when I first heard of him & his
Minor Lg. exploits & impending career as a NY Yankee! NO OTHER athlete, in ANY sport, has had the same everlasting effect on me!

I have met him 2 different times and the sensation was unlike any other I have ever experienced!

I know, it's a hard thing to explain WHY????

[Huck]

I had a Little League coach in 1971 that had been a roadie for Elvis. He used to tell me stories about Elvis and how he was the only person he'd ever met that just "lit up a room". Never quite understood until I met Mick. He was larger than life and could turn men of any age in to 8 year old boys. Every time I had the chance to see him at a show was a good experience...not so with Mays. Every interaction with Mays was like going to the dentist for a root canal. He would have a line around the block of people that were all very nice and respectful to him, yet he was a total prick to each and every one. The only other player to give him a run for his money in that regard is Pete Rose.

I have seen Mays 3-4 times and never had a problem with him. One has to be quick on their feet and make sure the item is right side up and that he is using the correct pen but otherwise no problems. I agree on Rose, but he has mellowed since the first time I saw him (shortly after the ban). I swear to the stars, Rose was sitting there with both forearms on the table, his hit king hat on his head, looking as if he was was going to kick the arse of anyone who approached the table for an autograph. But the king of unpleasantness is Reggie Jackson with Barry Bonds not too far behind.

[Bram99]

I have seen Mays 3-4 times and never had a problem with him. One has to be quick on their feet and make sure the item is right side up and that he is using the correct pen but otherwise no problems. I agree on Rose, but he has mellowed since the first time I saw him (shortly after the ban). I swear to the stars, Rose was sitting there with both forearms on the table, his hit king hat on his head, looking as if he was was going to kick the arse of anyone who approached the table for an autograph. But the king of unpleasantness is Reggie Jackson with Barry Bonds not too far behind.

I second the sentiments on Reggie. Fans are not his favorite

[Jerry G]

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img046.jpg


Discussions about the value of Mantle cards in and of themselves and relative to other stars like Aaron and Mays ( personality and all) have occurred over on post war from time to time

Mickey was terrific, but I was the other kid that traded for The Man.

[Huysmans]

What a ridiculous question.
Its like asking what's the fascination with Stradivarius, or Rembrandt, or Fabergé, or Ferrari?
People like the absolute best.
It's not rocket science...

[brian1961]

What a ridiculous question.
Its like asking what's the fascination with Stradivarius, or Rembrandt, or Fabergé, or Ferrari?
People like the absolute best.
It's not rocket science...

Well expressed, Brent.

I suppose the OP was asking both why there is such an obsession with Mickey, as well as, why, in a manner of speaking, do you yourself have such an obsession with Mickey Charles Mantle. With one, you get someone's opinion about the obvious huge fascination with Mick, and the drive to collect him---PASSIONATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

But with the other, if they're willing to take the time and trouble to ponder the matter, why he or she is obsessed with collecting Mickey. Considering the exorbitant amount of time and money some, including myself, have spent collecting Mickey Mantle, both questions and especially the personal one, are well worth the time exploring and pondering.

Funny, you mention another fascination of mine---Ferrari. It's as you say, people like the absolute best, though with Ferrari, I hone in on certain eras of their racing history, and collect them in fine 1/43rd scale models. I much prefer that for its practicality. I'd have to work many lifetimes for the surviving racing sports car of the real thing I savor, if that is, the current owner was willing to part with it. They are generally auctioned, and those dogfights are not for the timid of heart, nor pocketbook!!!!!!!!!!!!

All the best, Brian Powell

PS----I was ALWAYS in the same camp with my little buddy above. I would effortlessly trade any Stan Musial I had to get a Mickey Mantle. Be that as it may, at the time I began collecting, 1961, Stan the Man was respected in my Chicago suburb, but Mickey was revered. In 1961, Mickey was the number 1 most wanted, most cherished, most desired player on a baseball card, and he continued so through 1969 when Topps went ahead and produced Mickey, though he had announced his official retirement early in spring training of that year.

[661fish]

If Mantle was not a Yankee, things would have been different.

[Huysmans]

If Mantle was not a Yankee, things would have been different.

And what if Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio weren't Yankees?
Would they be less popular?
There is obviously more acclaim for ANY player playing with ANY iconic team, within ANY sport.


... and thanks Brian. I always enjoy reading your posts.