eBay... probstein123

[Sladge34]

Hey guys, last night I was trying to win an auction with probstein123 on eBay. I was the highest bidder and had my internet browser open and refreshed when the final hammer came down. Only problem was that someone came in at the last second and outbid me. No biggie, except I did not have the chance to re bid. I called eBay immediately and they said they are having problems with snipe bidding. Either way you look at it, I think it's illegal. What should one do in this situation? Any help?

[Leon]

Why do you think it's illegal? That sounds kind of crazy to me.

Hey guys, last night I was trying to win an auction with probstein123 on eBay. I was the highest bidder and had my internet browser open and refreshed when the final hammer came down. Only problem was that someone came in at the last second and outbid me. No biggie, except I did not have the chance to re bid. I called eBay immediately and they said they are having problems with snipe bidding. Either way you look at it, I think it's illegal. What should one do in this situation? Any help?

[dgo71]

My best suggestion is to determine the absolute max you're willing to pay for an item and bid that amount. If someone outbids you then you can take comfort in knowing they paid a price you weren't willing to pay. I could never understand why someone would bid less than what they're willing to pay and then complain about being sniped.

[Laxcat]

My best suggestion is to determine the absolute max you're willing to pay for an item and bid that amount. If someone outbids you then you can take comfort in knowing they paid a price you weren't willing to pay. I could never understand why someone would bid less than what they're willing to pay and then complain about being sniped.

This. You hit it out of the park with this statement.

[parker1b2]

My best suggestion is to determine the absolute max you're willing to pay for an item and bid that amount. If someone outbids you then you can take comfort in knowing they paid a price you weren't willing to pay. I could never understand why someone would bid less than what they're willing to pay and then complain about being sniped.

This^^^

[Sladge34]

So it sounds like everyone's ok with snipe bidding. Guess I'll just have to start bidding that way.

[Laxcat]

So it sounds like everyone's ok with snipe bidding. Guess I'll just have to start bidding that way.

To clarify: No. I hate snipe bidding. Putting in the highest offer you are comfortable with is the exact opposite of snipe bidding.

[Sladge34]

That puts a lot of faith in auction houses. If people are sniping, what makes you think auction houses aren't seeing people's bid, then looking at there high bid, and bidding that person up. Mastro auctions comes to mind here.

[Sladge34]

What is so hard for these huge companies with tech savvy guys working for them to run a legit, real, true auction??

[silvor]

I think the snipe bidding is what keeps the auctions honest.

I mean, if I or any hobbyist lists an auction starting at 99 cents, rarely are there bids early. Yet, the big guys get bids almost immediately.

Example, if an auction starts at 99 cents, and you put in your $100 bid right away, well, a dishonest auction can just keep bidding and creep up the price little by little. Once they hit your price, they can retract, then bid right under you.

If you snipe and put in your max bid, that eliminates that. Sure, the fake bids can still happen, but then if the fake bids overbid, well they can get stuck with winning and have to relist.

[D. Bergin]

Ebay has a hard and fast closing time. Once you understand that you strategize around that.

Always been that way. Ebay lied when they said they have a "problem with snipe bidding". They set up a system that would automatically gravitate towards that strategy.

[Laxcat]

That puts a lot of faith in auction houses. If people are sniping, what makes you think auction houses aren't seeing people's bid, then looking at there high bid, and bidding that person up. Mastro auctions comes to mind here.

If auction houses/ebayers are shilling, then in my opinion, they are committing fraud. The problem is proving it. If I have the slightest inkling that shady business practices are going on I just refuse to do business with that person/auction house. They will only keep doing it if it works.

[perezfan]

Just snipe in the final 5 seconds with the highest amount you're willing to pay. If you put your max out there too soon, you are making yourself vulnerable (both to competing bidders and to potential shills).

Why would you utilize any other method? :confused:

[Scott Garner]

Just snipe in the final 5 seconds with the highest amount you're willing to pay. If you put your max out there too soon, you are making yourself vulnerable (both to competing bidders and to potential shills).

Why would you utilize any other method? :confused:

+100 I couldn't agree more unless you like to spend extra money. ;)

[dgo71]

If my max is $100 and I get bid up to $95 then honestly it doesn't really matter to me who is bidding me up. Sure, the idea of shill bidding sucks but as someone mentioned, proving that is tough and time consuming. I just look at it as I was willing to pay 100 and if I got it for 95 I still got it for less than I would've paid. If it goes for 101 then I keep looking for another in my price range. The problem is people want the item but they also want to get it for a steal. It's hard to have it both ways. While deals can be had if the bidder is patient and savvy, getting an item for well below market value shouldn't be the expectation, especially if the item is drawing significant attention.

[Mr. Zipper]

Just snipe in the final 5 seconds with the highest amount you're willing to pay. If you put your max out there too soon, you are making yourself vulnerable (both to competing bidders and to potential shills).

Why would you utilize any other method? :confused:

I agree completely.

Bidding at the last moment is not unethical or illegal, yet shilling is.

Many eBay sellers will "shill" you up if you place an early bid. I don't mind competing against other bidders, but I am not going to give the seller a opportunity to squeeze more money out of me using shill accounts.

It's unfortunate bidders need to take this approach, but too many crooked eBay sellers have forced this type of response.

That said, it's almost a moot point anyway. Only about 10% of ebay offerings are auctions anyway. It has become the land of overpriced Buy It Nows.

[Bigdaddy]

If my max is $100 and I get bid up to $95 then honestly it doesn't really matter to me who is bidding me up. Sure, the idea of shill bidding sucks but as someone mentioned, proving that is tough and time consuming. I just look at it as I was willing to pay 100 and if I got it for 95 I still got it for less than I would've paid. If it goes for 101 then I keep looking for another in my price range. The problem is people want the item but they also want to get it for a steal. It's hard to have it both ways. While deals can be had if the bidder is patient and savvy, getting an item for well below market value shouldn't be the expectation, especially if the item is drawing significant attention.

Look at your maximum bid this way "I will bid $x over the next higher bidder up to a maximum of $XX" with $XX being your bid and $x being the auction increment.

I actually like this better as a buyer than a sealed bid auction where I will always either pay my bid amount or lose the item. This way I can still win an item by outbidding the second highest bidder by a small amount. I wonder what percentage of ebay auctions sell for less than the maximum bid? In other words, say the high bid was $100, but the second highest bid was only $75, then the auction ends at $75+bid increment, not $100, which someone was (supposedly) prepared to pay.

[Fballguy]

Ebay has been around for 20 years. A little surprised you're raising this as a concern now. You've never sniped or been sniped before this?

With Ebay, if you're not bidding in the final 5 seconds, you're probably not winning.

[Fballguy]

That said, it's almost a moot point anyway. Only about 10% of ebay offerings are auctions anyway. It has become the land of overpriced Buy It Nows.

That was the case for a while, but I've noticed over the past year a huge switch back to auction style. At least for the stuff I'm looking for.

[cfhofer]

Sniping exists because of hard close times. There is zero benefit to bid sooner and perfectly legal. Agree with everyone above on those points.

For those stating "Just bid the highest you are willing to pay" - that only works for pieces with an established market value (cards, for example). What about for high-end rare or one-of-a-kind memorabilia? Shouldn't a healthy auction establish that price point? We all have that one piece on our want list we are willing to pay "more than anyone else". That is when sniping is annoying.

However, I think sniping has created a bit of a monster (for these particular pieces). I've seen more eBay auctions for rare sports memorabilia end early now than ever before. Instead of losing to a last second snipe, collectors are contacting sellers directly with their best offer to BIN early on. Since these auctions get very little early action, sellers are enticed to take the sure amount. There was a time when those were just low-ball offers, but not anymore. This practice is technically legal if the BIN transaction is done through eBay.

[Fballguy]

However, I think sniping has created a bit of a monster (for these particular pieces). I've seen more eBay auctions for rare sports memorabilia end early now than ever before. Instead of losing to a last second snipe, collectors are contacting sellers directly with their best offer to BIN early on. Since these auctions get very little early action, sellers are enticed to take the sure amount. There was a time when those were just low-ball offers, but not anymore. This practice is technically legal if the BIN transaction is done through eBay.

Ebay encourages this now allowing you to add a "best offer" option on auction style listings. I assume an attempt to curtail taking the transaction off eBay.

[cfhofer]

Great point Rob. I think you are right.

[dgo71]

For those stating "Just bid the highest you are willing to pay" - that only works for pieces with an established market value (cards, for example).

For me, I don't need an established market price to know the highest amount I'm willing to pay for an item. "What I'm willing to pay" does not equal "value." The key part being "willing to pay." The item might be commonly selling for $100 but I decide I'm not paying over $80. Conversely an item might be selling for $100 but I want it badly or need it soon, maybe I'd be willing to spend $120. This also applies to one of a kind items. There have been plenty such items that are not in my collection because someone else was willing to pay more than I was. If I regret anything it's that I don't have more disposable income, not that I didn't place a higher bid.

[cfhofer]

Derek/dgo71-

"I don't need an established market price to know the highest amount I'm willing to pay for an item"

You state you don't need market value to determine willingness to pay, but proceed to provide a market value example ($100) as a starting point...paying more ($120) or less ($80) depending on your needs. So you do use market value, whether you realize it or not. The two go very much hand-in-hand. Sometimes people disregard market value (or one isn't established) but we should take it into consideration when we buy anything (house, car, boat, gas, etc.), as your example illustrates. I'm willing to pay $10 for a ballpark beer, but I'm well aware I'm getting ripped off.

"There have been plenty such items that are not in my collection because someone else was willing to pay more than I was"

Sure, that happens to all of us. But there are some items I'm willing to pay 10% more than anyone else. What is that exact amount? I don't know but a healthy auction would determine that much better than a single snipe bid. In those instances, my final price point is determined by what everyone else is willing to pay for it.

[dgo71]

I guess you misunderstood me. If I determine I'm willing to pay 120 then it doesn't matter that the market value is 100. I might not even know what the market value is when determining what I'm willing to pay. I used those numbers as examples to illustrate a point but I guess it wasn't clear enough. I definitely see your point of how an established market value might sway your decision but at the end of the day it's still up to you how much you're willing to spend.

Edited to add:
I can give you a specific example of this theory. There was a signed card I wanted for a set I'm working that had a current bid of $20- something at the time I discovered it. I was willing to pay $150 for it, which I felt was probably far more than it was worth, but was the figure I determined I'd be comfortable paying. I bid the 150 and ended up getting the item for slightly over $50. Had I gotten it for $149.99 I would have been just as happy. Market value was nothing more than an afterthought when deciding what to pay. If someone else wanted it more, I would have been disappointed sure, but also comfortable in the fact that I wasn't willing to pay what it would have taken to win.

[dgo71]

To your second point, if the bids of others determines how much you are bidding, then you're really not making your own decision. You say you'd pay 10% more but I'm sure even that stipulation has its limit. So find that limit, and bid that. Otherwise you're really not making a decision on your own terms.

Edit: doesn't eBay have a feature to autobid if you are outbid? If you have a max in mind, that would seem like a helpful feature.