View Full Version : How trimmed can a card be and still be graded Near Mint?
brianp-beme
09-14-2018, 09:42 PM
I have refrained from posting this type of thread in the past, but I collect E220 National Caramel cards and it struck me as so, so wrong. The cuts on E220 cards are about the worse I have seen on a non-strip issue (which makes you wonder if maybe the set was partially produced in strip form or as a sheet...see scan below for an idea of their sloppy production). It is therefore sometimes difficult to determine what a normal full size card is, but this example has narrow borders on all four sides and it grades as Near Mint? A little card knowledge goes a long way, TPG folks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E220-National-Caramel-JOHN-SMITH-PSA-7-1-1-Highest-Graded/142939034793?hash=item2147d494a9:g:E7cAAOSwQO9a839 7
Brian
Aquarian Sports Cards
09-15-2018, 06:18 AM
wow that card is ridiculously trimmed.
brianp-beme
09-15-2018, 11:54 AM
wow that card is ridiculously trimmed.
Agreed. The Groh card I showed should give you an idea of what the approximate border widths should be. Here are scans of cards (not mine) that I think are what decently cut E220 cards should look like (ones cut this nice and well centered are very tough to come by, and the Hoyt still looks trimmed):
Brian
bigfish
09-15-2018, 12:42 PM
Is there ANY chance it’s factory cut?
brianp-beme
09-15-2018, 12:50 PM
Knowing how horribly cut the E220 cards are, yes. But it seems like it would then not meet minimum size requirements for grading.
Brian
swarmee
09-15-2018, 12:56 PM
Ancient flip number. Graded at least 10 years ago. PSA says the set should be 2” x 3-1/4”.
https://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/baseball-cards/1921-23-national-caramel-e220/1945
Aquarian Sports Cards
09-15-2018, 01:44 PM
I own and have owned a bunch of E220's I'd say almost no chance that's a funky factory cut. Plus the cuts look slightly concave to me resulting in "bat-ear" corners.
ronniehatesjazz
09-15-2018, 02:15 PM
What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
riggs336
09-15-2018, 02:20 PM
What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
We used to call those "bottle bats", but we were young and not very smart.
brianp-beme
09-15-2018, 03:16 PM
That was the style of bat that Heinie Groh used and is one of his claims to fame, and like was mentioned it was referred to as a 'bottle' bat. His E220 card has a great image of it.
Brian
trdcrdkid
09-15-2018, 04:01 PM
What in the world is Heinie Groh holding? Is that some type of old school fungo bat?
It’s a bottle bat. Groh was well known for using them.
Rookiemonster
09-15-2018, 04:06 PM
There use to be a guy at the local card show that had a binder full of theses . I bought two. All were trimmed to complete borderless cards. Just the bottom remained with the name and team.
Also never seen a bottle bat. Is it still legal ? If not when and why was it taken away.
trdcrdkid
09-15-2018, 04:12 PM
Here’s my one E220, which is unusually well-centered for the issue. It has much bigger borders than the trimmed one.
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/dkathman1/IMG_20160707_0001_1.jpghttp://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/dkathman1/IMG_20160707_0002_1.jpg
brianp-beme
09-15-2018, 04:38 PM
There use to be a guy at the local card show that had a binder full of theses . I bought two. All were trimmed to complete borderless cards. Just the bottom remained with the name and team.
Perhaps they look like this or more likely cut inside the lined image border. I have seen a lot that were cut down in similar fashion.
Brian
Find any T206 card in a PSA holder that says "Hall Collection". :p
Rhotchkiss
09-15-2018, 06:27 PM
That is a real bad mistake. I am glad there are places like net54 where that stuff gets pointed out. Thanks Brian (not that I was after that card, but still good to know). I know very little about E220s, in fact this is the only one I have ever owned, but I thought it was very well centered for what I have seen of E220 (sorry for the side-pic, that’s what happens when a techno-idiot uploads a pic off the phone)
yanksfan09
09-15-2018, 06:41 PM
That was the style of bat that Heinie Groh used and is one of his claims to fame, and like was mentioned it was referred to as a 'bottle' bat. His E220 card has a great image of it.
Brian
Same image also found in 1921 Exhibits
brianp-beme
09-15-2018, 07:07 PM
Here is another photo with Heinie and his bottle bat.
Brian
C'mon, don't ya' know? The one in the link is the mini-border variety. And a miscut Wheat.
I have refrained from posting this type of thread in the past, but I collect E220 National Caramel cards and it struck me as so, so wrong. The cuts on E220 cards are about the worse I have seen on a non-strip issue (which makes you wonder if maybe the set was partially produced in strip form or as a sheet...see scan below for an idea of their sloppy production). It is therefore sometimes difficult to determine what a normal full size card is, but this example has narrow borders on all four sides and it grades as Near Mint? A little card knowledge goes a long way, TPG folks.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E220-National-Caramel-JOHN-SMITH-PSA-7-1-1-Highest-Graded/142939034793?hash=item2147d494a9:g:E7cAAOSwQO9a839 7
Brian
GasHouseGang
09-19-2018, 10:07 AM
It's hard to believe all of those terrible cuts are from "factory" cutting. Seems more likely to be made like this...
scooter729
09-19-2018, 11:18 AM
The original PSA 7 card in this thread was part of a lot I won in a Goodwin auction in 2014. That card was not pictured in the lot; when I received it, I was unhappy at the obvious trim, and had to return the entire lot as my only option (though I wanted other cards from the group).
It should be obvious to anyone that the card is trimmed, and should be sent back to PSA to get it out of circulation in that case.