T210 Old Mill Red Borders

[Leon]

The T210 Old Mill red border series have some great poses in them. Only a few cards will break the bank but completing the whole set has been a feat not many have done. (if any, not sure) The orange border 3 series cards are neat too.

[edjs]

Fun set, killer tough for some cards though. Here's a few.

[bnorth]

The T210's are by far my favorite vintage cards. The red borders with the B/W pictures are beautiful. The series 3 Ft Worth cards are my favorites because the FTW on their uniforms brings out the little kid in me.:D

[quinnsryche]

I know Jackson and Stengel are expensive, but what are say, the top 5 $ wise and top 5 toughest (regardless of price). Is the checklist defined or one of these ones where they keep finding new ones?

[bnorth]

I know Jackson and Stengel are expensive, but what are say, the top 5 $ wise and top 5 toughest (regardless of price). Is the checklist defined or one of these ones where they keep finding new ones?

The series 3 orange borders are probably the top cards besides the Jackson and Stengel. Series 3 Morris is also expensive compared to most. Other than those even after collecting them for a few years I have no idea how to price T210's.

[wnp22]

Love the T210's. Plan on eventually chasing down all of the Memphis players in Series 8. Just wish they came up more often.

[Kawika]

One of my favorite issues. Have a boxful of them. Here is a link to my complete series six: http://imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/baseball/oldmillt210series6bluegrassleagu No password needed.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Nice Stengel David.

[Vintagecatcher]

Nice collection David!

I don't recall seeing the J. Hicks, catcher before. Nice pose!

Patrick

[Michael Peich]

David--Your Series Six collection is a barometer of your overall collection-- stunning! Thanks for sharing the link, and for noting the players who made it to the Show.

Your old buddy,
Mike

[Jobu]

I've got one for my New Orleans collection. I wish it was the one that says Jackson on the bottom. :)

[Jason]

I may be a little bias :D but I think its the T210 set is the most interesting set in baseball car collecting! So many great stories amongst the players represented. Everytime I get a new card I always look forward to the searches from Baseball Reference to Wikipedia. I doubt I will ever have the JJ card so ill consider myself complete at 519. The closer I get the more infrequent the cards become. Great cards everyone.

[seablaster]

Tony, to answer your question, as far as value, #4 and #5 may be any number of different cards. I'd feel pretty comfortable saying that #3 belongs to the Kelly (mascot) card as it generally fetches over $1000 in any condition. It is pretty difficult to obtain as well.

There are certain players and teams that just don't come up for sale at all. There are players in Series 8 in particular that are super tough. A bidding war for an obscure player can push a card into the 4 digit range. The players who have had MLB experience and who are readily known also draw a premium.

I'm surprised no one has shared the Jones, Oklahoma for the viewers at home. It's a wonderful set and it's been great working on aspects of it with the fellas who have posted in this thread.

I'm particularly fond of this pose of Eugene DeMontreville. I picture him having tried to leg out a throw to first base, all the while his cap comes off, and he's thrown out by a half step. The miffed look on his face confirms it.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/seablaster/t210-old-mill/61855/demonteville

Jim Thorpe's old buddy and roommate from the Rocky Mount Railroaders:

https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/seablaster/t210-old-mill/58807/dussault

The only horizontal card in the set:

https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/seablaster/t210-old-mill/61858/morris

Already shared by David, but the relaxed pose is just killer:

https://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/seablaster/t210-old-mill/61856/yeager

[Cerberus]

...........or is it? That's the fun!

[CobbSpikedMe]

I've got one for my New Orleans collection. I wish it was the one that says Jackson on the bottom. :)

Bryan,

That is one sharp Series 8 example. Nice card my friend.

[Kawika]

Aside from Shoeless Joe and Ol' Casey there are all kinds of cool major leaguers lurking in the T210 bushes. Jeff Tesreau and Steve Yerkes played against each other two years later in the 1912 Series.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/baseball/holygrailcards/websize/T210%20Tesreau.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/07_27%20eBay%20T210-8%20Yerkes.jpg

Big Jeff pitched Game One. That small white blob on the mound would be him.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/huge/%20Polo%20Grds%201912%20WS%20pano%20pc.jpg

Ivey Wingo played in seventeen ML seasons. Was Cinci's catcher in the Black Sox series.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/T210%20Wingo.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/eBay%20Exh%20Wingo.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/large/Legendary%20OM%20Wingo.jpg

Charlie Mullen had a not un-solid career with the White Sox and the Yankees. He was New York's first baseman before Wally Pipp.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/baseball/holygrailcards/websize/T210%20Mullen.jpg

He also played on Ten Million's high school team.
[I think TM is sitting front-row, second from left right in black sweater. Mullen, I would just be guessing. Maybe the eminent Mr Eskenazi might see this post and weigh in].

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/miscellany2/huge/DMcD485_1.jpg

[edjs]

[I think TM is sitting front-row, second from left in black sweater. Mullen, I would just be guessing. Maybe the eminent Mr Eskenazi might see this post and weigh in].

Kawika,

I think TM is front row, second from right? And your collection is, well, spectacular.

[Kawika]

Thanks for the correction, Ed. "Right" is what I meant to say but I'm on that downhill slide where such basic concepts get mixed up. Aging sucks. Thanks, too, for the kind words about my collection. The cards and ephemera have brought me a ton of enjoyment over the years.

[edjs]

Thanks for the correction, Ed. "Right" is what I meant to say but I'm on that downhill slide where such basic concepts get mixed up. Aging sucks. Thanks, too, for the kind words about my collection. The cards and ephemera have brought me a ton of enjoyment over the years.

I don't believe you about the slide, but the rest I agree. Especially about aging sucks. But collecting, well, that's still brings me a ton of enjoyment. lana 'iʻo ka manaʻo . I hope that translates correct.

[Brian]

Very cool cards.
I don't have many but enjoy the ones I have, like this one.
I guess the Moxie Manuel is pretty tough. Anybody have one?
Brian

[Epps]

Quick plug here, but I'm letting a Benny ride with the good ol boys over at Sterling. IMO, the coolest pose in the set and one that doesn't come around often.

http://www.sterlingsportsauctions.com/1910_T210_4_Benny_Old_Mill_Cigarettes_PSA_1-LOT46613.aspx

[DixieBaseball]

T210's - Always has been my favorite set! Great cards, everyone -

[edjs]

T210's - Always has been my favorite set! Great cards, everyone -

Damn, Pulling out some big boys there. That Demaree.....

[brianp-beme]

Being a West Coaster I have concentrated my minor league efforts on the PCL issues, but have picked up a couple of handful of T210 over the years (all I would need to collect these cards full bore would be an endless flow of cash). Here is a favorite of mine of a dude with 'tude.

Brian

[bnorth]

Quick plug here, but I'm letting a Benny ride with the good ol boys over at Sterling. IMO, the coolest pose in the set and one that doesn't come around often.

http://www.sterlingsportsauctions.com/1910_T210_4_Benny_Old_Mill_Cigarettes_PSA_1-LOT46613.aspx

You might want to have them fix the description.

That is a very nice looking card, good luck with the sale.

[quinnsryche]

What's the significance of the Jones, Oklahoma card that Seablaster mentioned earlier in the posts?

[Jason]

When I get off work ill post my Jones Oklahoma rainbow run!! Red/Orange/Yellow:D

[Steve D]

I decided to post this here, as this looks like the unofficial "Official" thread for T210.

As a result of the recent Julius (Cy) Young T210 question in another thread, I decided to do some research on the T210 Series 4 players. Here's what I've found so far.

As a reminder, the Virginia Valley League existed only in 1910, with the season running from May - September. Teams were located in:

Ashland, KY
Charleston, WV
Huntington, WV
Montgomery, WV
Parkersburg, WV
Point Pleasant, WV

Ashland and Parkersburg were not represented in the T210 set.

The following are the first and last names of players in the T210 set, based on both data from the 1910 U.S. Federal Census (where each of them listed their occupation as "ballplayer" in Huntington, WV, and from articles in the Point Pleasant (WV) Register newspaper.

Point Pleasant players (names taken from the PP Register):

Best, Harry - Infielder
Brown, Horace - Pitcher
Dashner, Dike - Pitcher (probably the card labeled "Doshmer")
Daugherty, Elmer - Catcher/Outfielder
Hunter, F. M. - Catcher
Kuehn, Ed W. - Pitcher
Mullenkamp, Fred H. - 1st Base
Shafer, Manuel - Pitcher
Witter, Lou - unknown position

I could not find a first name for "Pickels", but he is identified in the PP Register as "Pickle".

In the 1910 Federal Census, the following individuals lived in Huntington, WV, and listed their occupations as "ballplayer":

Gus Bonno
Andrew P. Canepa - he is referred to as "Pat" Canepa in the newspapers.
Howard E. Kane
Julius C. Young - occupation "mgr baseball" in the census.

There is also a reference in the PP Register, to Jimmy O'Connor, as the captain of the Montgomery team.

I will keep looking, and if/when I find anything else, I'll post it here.

Steve

[edjs]

Good stuff, Steve. Thanks for sharing.

[Jason]

I agree its nice to add the first names to a few players in the series. Outstanding work Steve.

[John V]

Speaking of first names, this is my research on the Columbia players.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I wanted to bump this thread because I have enjoyed reading the comments and looking at these beautiful cards! T210s have been on my radar for a while. I think Series 3 might be where I would start. OBs aside, what should I expect to pay for the average T210 in ungraded VGish condition? I say VGish because that is mostly what I am seeing. I would much rather have ungraded cards.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[asphaltman]

<a href="https://ibb.co/nzZ8BD0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/LnbhrCP/fullsizeoutput-3e.jpg" alt="fullsizeoutput-3e" border="0"></a>

I would guess for VG condition in raw form you could pick them up for $50-70 on average with some exceptions.

[Section103]

Its not often I get to play along on this board. Im happy with this one and will take any and all Balenti's that come along.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Its not often I get to play along on this board. Im happy with this one and will take any and all Balenti's that come along.Sweet card!

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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

<a href="https://ibb.co/nzZ8BD0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/LnbhrCP/fullsizeoutput-3e.jpg" alt="fullsizeoutput-3e" border="0"></a>

I would guess for VG condition in raw form you could pick them up for $50-70 on average with some exceptions.Thanks for the info. Great card!

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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have seen a mixture of graded and ungraded cards in this and other T210 threads. I have also seen it noted (at least I think I have) that many T210s stay ungraded. Do any of you guys buy them graded and crack then out?

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[trdcrdkid]

I have around 80 T210s, from all eight series, mostly raw but with a few graded cards that were that way when I got them. I got many of mine 15+ years ago, but have continued to pick them up when good opportunities arise. The estimate of $50-$70 apiece for VG-ish raw cards sounds about right.

[bnorth]

I have seen a mixture of graded and ungraded cards in this and other T210 threads. I have also seen it noted (at least I think I have) that many T210s stay ungraded. Do any of you guys buy them graded and crack then out?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I have freed about 35-40 from the big 3 and then had around a dozen of them put back into their plastic prisons by SGC.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have freed about 35-40 from the big 3 and then had around a dozen of them put back into their plastic prisons by SGC.Out of curiosity, why did you reslab those dozen?

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[bnorth]

Out of curiosity, why did you reslab those dozen?

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I changed my focus on T210s from the set to just the Ft Worth team. I sold most of my extras raw. Then sent the rest in to get graded hoping they would be easier to sell.

After a quick look I had at least 30 slabbed by SGC. I sold around 20 on here and have 7 at an auction house now. Plus I know I sold a few of them on ebay. WOW is my memory getting old.:)

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I changed my focus on T210s from the set to just the Ft Worth team. I sold most of my extras raw. Then sent the rest in to get graded hoping they would be easier to sell.

After a quick look I had at least 30 slabbed by SGC. I sold around 20 on here and have 7 at an auction house now. Plus I know I sold a few of them on ebay. WOW is my memory getting old.:)I understand. That makes sense. The more I look, the more I think these are the coolest cards. When I get started, I am thinking of starting with Series 3. Geographically, they are closest to me. I think I would prefer raw, but most of what I see for sale are slabbed. There are other series which interest me as well. I realize there are exceptions, but for their age and relative scarcity, they seem affordable.

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[ValKehl]

I have a complete, raw set of the Series 2 (the easiest) cards, which I acquired over several years several years ago. I only have the Series 2 because I collect Virginia League cards.

[qed2190]

These are my two favorites, have gotten most of my 210's from Mike and Ben

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have around 80 T210s, from all eight series, mostly raw but with a few graded cards that were that way when I got them. I got many of mine 15+ years ago, but have continued to pick them up when good opportunities arise. The estimate of $50-$70 apiece for VG-ish raw cards sounds about right.

Thanks for the feedback. Leave it to Dean's Cards and yepbg to skew things a bit on ebay. :confused::(

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Bought my first one today (from a fellow board member). These could be addictive. :D

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I have a complete, raw set of the Series 2 (the easiest) cards, which I acquired over several years aeveral years ago. I only have the Series 2 because I collect Virginia League cards.Were you able to buy them all raw?

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[ValKehl]

Were you able to buy them all raw?

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Yes, Robert, they were all raw when I acquired them.

[Vintagecatcher]

Here is my favorite T210 pickup this year, Joe Dunn, Mobile.

It's from the tough Series 8.

The T210 Old Mill set makes you be patient.

New cards usually appear in small groups.

I'm always paying strong for nice examples of catchers in this set!

Patrick

[ceast]

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=744&pictureid=17758 http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=744&pictureid=17759



And then a raw Orcutt. http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=744&pictureid=17634

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Beautiful cards, guys! I look forward to acquiring more and will share them when I do.

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[tedzan]

My meager contribution to this great T210 show.

I love the "fat red bordered" T210's....and, is it just my observation, or what ?
It appears to me that many of the "fat bordered" cards are found in Series 8.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T210FisherFB.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T210Stengel.jpg

Series 8



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/6xT210cards.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/4xT206SoLgrs4xT210s.jpg




TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Jason]

My meager contribution to this great T210 show.

I love the "fat red bordered" T210's....and, is it just my observation, or what ?
It appears to me that many of the "fat bordered" cards are found in Series 8.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T210FisherFB.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T210Stengel.jpg

Series 8

Sweet cards everyone and what a great thread about a great set! Your observation is correct Ted. Series 8 is notorious for fat borders as well as Series 2. Not many in other Series from what I have seen. May this thread go on forever!:D



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/6xT210cards.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/4xT206SoLgrs4xT210s.jpg




TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.


Sweet cards everyone and what a great thread about a great set! Your observation is correct Ted. Series 8 is notorious for fat borders as well as Series 2. Not many in other Series from what I have seen. May this thread go on forever!:D

[Vintagecatcher]

Here is my fat Series 8 example.

Patrick

[Leon]

Great stuff, David. And if that is a postcard, and not a regular photo, of the game in the middle it is awesome.

Aside from Shoeless Joe and Ol' Casey there are all kinds of cool major leaguers lurking in the T210 bushes. Jeff Tesreau and Steve Yerkes played against each other two years later in the 1912 Series.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/baseball/holygrailcards/websize/T210%20Tesreau.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/07_27%20eBay%20T210-8%20Yerkes.jpg

Big Jeff pitched Game One. That small white blob on the mound would be him.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/huge/%20Polo%20Grds%201912%20WS%20pano%20pc.jpg

Ivey Wingo played in seventeen ML seasons. Was Cinci's catcher in the Black Sox series.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/T210%20Wingo.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/websize/eBay%20Exh%20Wingo.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/recentpickups/large/Legendary%20OM%20Wingo.jpg

Charlie Mullen had a not un-solid career with the White Sox and the Yankees. He was New York's first baseman before Wally Pipp.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/baseball/holygrailcards/websize/T210%20Mullen.jpg

He also played on Ten Million's high school team.
[I think TM is sitting front-row, second from left right in black sweater. Mullen, I would just be guessing. Maybe the eminent Mr Eskenazi might see this post and weigh in].

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/miscellany2/huge/DMcD485_1.jpg

[Kawika]

Thanks, Leon. It is indeed a "panoramic postcard" although I doubt too many of them were dropped into a mailbox in 1912. It's kinda huge. I had it framed so that the card is floating on the matte. Here is the REA write-up: https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=45110
It's a spectacular piece. Looks great along with my other NYG/Matty stuff.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

I picked this one up off ebay with the 15% off coupon. This is my second one, but I can already tell I might have a problem. :)
I plan on buying higher grade in the future, but money is tight around Christmas...but I still am really pumped to get it!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181215/4a64aaf04d36177d35fd096719fe9837.jpg

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[jchcollins]

I picked this one up off ebay with the 15% off coupon. This is my second one, but I can already tell I might have a problem. :)
I plan on buying higher grade in the future, but money is tight around Christmas...but I still am really pumped to get it!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181215/4a64aaf04d36177d35fd096719fe9837.jpg

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Very cool looking card - nice pickups Robert!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Picked up another the other day.

[Pat R]

Not sure but this ad could be about the T210's.

Charlotte Daily Observer March 14 1910

460391

[Jason]

Definitely T210\T209-2 related. Awesome little article!

[DixieBaseball]

Pat - Nice article find! That is really cool. I have not ever seen a T210/9 article.

[Pat R]

Thanks Jason and Jeremy.