View Full Version : 1888 DARTMOUTH solved
Robinsol1887
07-16-2018, 11:03 PM
I came across this today and I know that this is 1884 Dartmouth now
https://libarchive.dartmouth.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/photofiles/id/13674/rec/6
Help needed Identifying this team/players. I posted about the poly institute and orphan boys (Wagner/Jackson). I have my dad’s tobacco era through dead ball era collection and I’m trying to identify these pieces. He died when I was a kid and he left his collection to me. His collection means the world to me and I’m not trying to gain attention or money from it. I am just trying to make sense of his notes as well as the items that he left me. please click the link below for the picture and my research. The second link is information about 1884 quick steps. I went with this because I began researching the D which led me to Delaware which led me to quick steps which led me to Dan Casey. The man sitting in the middle definitely does resemble him
My photo cabinet that I own is on the second and third page of the first doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11-12NGydDa04HgQ6hzpKi5FwG80COhM9vOK4TgC-k-0
1884 quicksteps information
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13WhpEcnmaJ3AlPHV4chQ2XtMMLvp9FFBShD9bt4RbW8
ramram
07-16-2018, 11:37 PM
I’m a little confused by some of the information that is presented but as far as the team image with what may be a “D” on the uniform, it definitely appears to be an 1880’s team considering the uniforms and the type of albumen image. Likely a team from California considering the address stamp that’s on it.
Rob M
P.S. Likely a college team or town team considering there are only ten players and a coach. However, it is a well funded team considering the quality of their uniforms.
Edited to add that I appear to like the word “considering”.
Robinsol1887
07-17-2018, 12:26 AM
I’m a little confused by some of the information that is presented but as far as the team image with what may be a “D” on the uniform, it definitely appears to be an 1880’s team considering the uniforms and the type of albumen image. Likely a team from California considering the address stamp that’s on it.
Rob M
P.S. Likely a college team or town team considering there are only ten players and a coach. However, it is a well funded team considering the quality of their uniforms.
Edited to add that I appear to like the word “considering”.
Thank you for your response! I appreciate that you payed attention to the detail in my documents. There’s a receipt for framing in my dads old things. I think he had it framed there. Any insight helps!
rhettyeakley
07-18-2018, 09:50 AM
No Detroit Tigers connection, sorry. The photo comparisons are all wrong. I may be misunderstanding what you are asking but no way are Cobb or any other Tigers in that photo.
To me, who isn't a photo expert but looks at a ton of them, almost all of these men aren't even remotely close to who they are supposed to be resembling. My main test is simply by looking at the 2 people in question. The quicker my brain says, nope, the more likely it isn't whom it is thought it could be. On these none of them really needed a second glance....
btw, the Ty Cobb possibility is a bit comical. I mean it could be Ty's second cousin but its not close to being Ty. Almost no resemblance whatsoever to me. Maybe I am being to critical of the pics but just pointing out what I see in them.
Runscott
07-18-2018, 10:15 AM
Leon, that's a good method. When someone posts a photo and mentions a big name player, the first thing I do is look for someone in the photo who resembles that person - before looking at who the owner thinks is the person. In the case of the last pic he posted I didn't even pick the correct Jackson candidate.
Lots of nice photos.
To me, who isn't a photo expert but looks at a ton of them, almost all of these men aren't even remotely close to who they are supposed to be resembling. My main test is simply by looking at the 2 people in question. The quicker my brain says, nope, the more likely it isn't whom it is thought it could be. On these none of them really needed a second glance....
btw, the Ty Cobb possibility is a bit comical. I mean it could be Ty's second cousin but its not close to being Ty. Almost no resemblance whatsoever to me. Maybe I am being to critical of the pics but just pointing out what I see in them.
The individual identities are off, but they're all nice baseball photos.
According to my uniform database the 1884 Wilmington Quicksteps wore light gray uniforms and caps with Purple Stockings and trimmings. So I don't think the photo is the Wilmington team.
jcmtiger
07-19-2018, 02:51 PM
Ty Cobb isn't in any of the photos.
Joe
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 03:37 PM
No Detroit Tigers connection, sorry. The photo comparisons are all wrong. I may be misunderstanding what you are asking but no way are Cobb or any other Tigers in that photo.
I was thinking Dan Casey. Thoughts?
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 03:38 PM
To me, who isn't a photo expert but looks at a ton of them, almost all of these men aren't even remotely close to who they are supposed to be resembling. My main test is simply by looking at the 2 people in question. The quicker my brain says, nope, the more likely it isn't whom it is thought it could be. On these none of them really needed a second glance....
btw, the Ty Cobb possibility is a bit comical. I mean it could be Ty's second cousin but its not close to being Ty. Almost no resemblance whatsoever to me. Maybe I am being to critical of the pics but just pointing out what I see in them.
Help identifying the D on the uniforms
ramram
07-19-2018, 03:42 PM
It's a town team or college team. Could be dozens of them in that region.
Rob M
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 06:45 PM
Ty Cobb isn't in any of the photos.
Joe
Any thoughts or ideas on the D logo?
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 09:52 PM
The individual identities are off, but they're all nice baseball photos.
Hi drcy,
would you please take a look at my Google doc?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13sbLBz5z3t9Vi30RGG9oUQcL70eU3CSxanIAlibUKmU
There’s a comparison of faces there. the only reason I am trying to figure out if this is a possibility is because of my dad’s notes. Amongst his collection he had an 1887 large Indianapolis Hoosier cabinet photograph, Plus nine hoosiers old judge tobacco cards, the 1869 Cincinnati red stockings sheet music booklet, and an 1888 St. Louis Browns Joseph P Hall original cabinet. These items found a new home with someone who loved the game just as much as my dad did. I’m just trying to figure out who these people are, where they came from, and if they have a better home. I love his pieces, but after talking with several collectors and placing a few of his items I understand the meaning that these types of memorabilia pieces have to many people. I want someone to feel what my dad felt
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 10:11 PM
Can you tell from your data base any further information?
Robinsol1887
07-19-2018, 10:22 PM
According to my uniform database the 1884 Wilmington Quicksteps wore light gray uniforms and caps with Purple Stockings and trimmings. So I don't think the photo is the Wilmington team.
To me, who isn't a photo expert but looks at a ton of them, almost all of these men aren't even remotely close to who they are supposed to be resembling. My main test is simply by looking at the 2 people in question. The quicker my brain says, nope, the more likely it isn't whom it is thought it could be. On these none of them really needed a second glance....
btw, the Ty Cobb possibility is a bit comical. I mean it could be Ty's second cousin but its not close to being Ty. Almost no resemblance whatsoever to me. Maybe I am being to critical of the pics but just pointing out what I see in them.
Leon,
I sent you all of my photographs including (Photo comparisons of photos and links to my research notes. You only included two pictures in the thread, could you please include the rest? Again, thank you for offering to post these photographs in a new thread. I appreciate any and all input that I can get
The 1885 Detroit Wolverines Home uniform were white and the road uniform were gray and both had "RED" belts and stockings. I guess that means no Dan Casey.
You are welcome to post whatever you want to. I posted what you sent me. I don't care to post pictures that much.....but again, you are welcome to. Good luck.
Leon,
I sent you all of my photographs including (Photo comparisons of photos and links to my research notes. You only included two pictures in the thread, could you please include the rest? Again, thank you for offering to post these photographs in a new thread. I appreciate any and all input that I can get
Robinsol1887
07-20-2018, 03:33 PM
Mystery solved. It is 1884 Dartmouth
MattyC
07-20-2018, 03:39 PM
Damn, just saw this; as a Dartmouth '98 had I seen it earlier I could have helped solve it! Great picture.
Robinsol1887
07-20-2018, 04:24 PM
So if that is 1888 Dartmouth then, isn’t that Lee Viau and Fred Woodcock?
I think you're on a fishing trip and you ran out of worms.
Robinsol1887
07-20-2018, 06:26 PM
Clever. I’ve actually never been fishing. :D
Runscott
07-20-2018, 08:09 PM
Can we create a temporary sub-forum for guys who do this sort of thing? We've been through this before and they don't seem to run out of energy for months.
Michael B
07-20-2018, 09:34 PM
can we create a temporary sub-forum for guys who do this sort of thing? We've been through this before and they don't seem to run out of energy for months.
evajoy 2.0!!!
Can we create a temporary sub-forum for guys who do this sort of thing? We've been through this before and they don't seem to run out of energy for months.
So we need a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest section? All batteries eventually run dry. :)
Runscott
07-21-2018, 09:43 AM
So we need a One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest section? All batteries eventually run dry. :)
That's not a bad idea. It could be optional for those of us who are feeling manic, or compulsory if the moderator sends them there.
Robinsol1887
07-23-2018, 05:18 PM
That's not a bad idea. It could be optional for those of us who are feeling manic, or compulsory if the moderator sends them there.
LOL! Manic? More of beyond impressed with my dads collection and just trying to identify stuff. Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome however the D does resemble the 1880s D in Dartmouth and his notes do say he purchased a picture of 1884 Dartmouth for $600 in the 1980s
ramram
07-23-2018, 06:37 PM
It is a neat image but $600 in the 1980’s would have been a hefty price for an apparent college team. From what I’ve read on this thread and your others, your dad had a nice eye for sports collectibles but his identification work was considerably off. However, that was no easy task pre-internet.
Rob M
"he purchased a picture of 1884 Dartmouth for $600 in the 1980s"
:confused::rolleyes::eek:
Runscott
07-23-2018, 08:54 PM
LOL! Manic? More of beyond impressed with my dads collection and just trying to identify stuff. Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome however the D does resemble the 1880s D in Dartmouth and his notes do say he purchased a picture of 1884 Dartmouth for $600 in the 1980s
I was talking about myself, not you.
Robinsol1887
07-23-2018, 09:00 PM
It is a neat image but $600 in the 1980’s would have been a hefty price for an apparent college team. From what I’ve read on this thread and your others, your dad had a nice eye for sports collectibles but his identification work was considerably off. However, that was no easy task pre-internet.
Rob M
I contacted Dartmouth after much research in their archives, and their archivist informed me today, via email, that he believes this is late 1870s or early 1880s Dartmouth. He informed me that almost all of the different departments had their own baseball teams. They do not have this one in their archives. They are interested in acquiring the photograph
So, No proof that its Dartmouth and no proof that they used that type of D on any baseball uniform.
Well at least you have found a buyer which is good.
I contacted Dartmouth after much research in their archives, and their archivist informed me today, via email, that he believes this is late 1870s or early 1880s Dartmouth. He informed me that almost all of the different departments had their own baseball teams. They do not have this one in their archives. They are interested in acquiring the photograph
:rolleyes: