Once again....I'm offering a $500 reward (each) for AB 460 or UZIT T206 cards of Ames

[tedzan]

T206Resource (and other sources on Net54) continue the myth that Ames (hands over head) is "confirmed" with an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) back.
Furthermore, these sources also claim that this same Ames card has been confirmed with the UZIT back.

These are IMPOSSIBLE front/back combos !

I'm so certain that the above front/back combos do NOT exist, that I am willing to offer a $500 reward to anyone here who can show me a legitimate card
of Ames with an AB 460 or UZIT back.....thereby disproving my theory.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/5x100sSeries1990x.jpg > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/AmericanBeauty460b34.jpg


. . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/McGrawGloveUZITxb.jpg > > > > > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/5x100sSeries2009x.jpg


A year ago I offered a $500 reward....check-out this thread > http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240984. Obviously, no such Ames card(s) showed up.
One enduring quality of most National's is that you can find virtually every BB card ever issued. So, I figured I would give this experiment one more try.

The Ames (hands over head) is a 350/460 series subject. My research indicates American Lithographic printed the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 backs and
the Red HINDU backs simultaneously......"matched pairs".

Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 back. It has not yet been confirmed with the Red HINDU back. But, it's just a matter of time
that this Ames card with a Red HINDU back will be discovered.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AmesSweetCap460factory42.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/FordSweetCap460x42.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/GeyerRedHINDUx50b.jpg



Furthermore, Ames card is not the only incorrect info in T206Resource....4 subjects in T206Resource's PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 listing are identified as "confirmed".

These 4 cards, which T206Resource claims to be confirmed, have never been seen ** with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 backs......

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

For the most part, T206Resource is a dependable site to rely on.....but, they are absolutely mis-informing T206 collectors on these 6 cards noted in this thread.

You can contact me via email.... tedzan11@comcast.net. Or, look for me at the National. I'll be wandering about with $1000 burning a hole in my pocket.
So, if you have either one of these Ames cards to show me, and the card is authentic, then the $500 reward is yours....payable on the spot with cash.


** Note.... In the following post here these facts presented here will be reinforced.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[tedzan]

Hey guys

Here are 4 sources which reinforce the statements presented in Post #1 in this thread......

1....Scot Reader's 100,000+ T206 survey....cannot account for any of these 6 cards claimed by T206Resource.

2....David Hall's near complete T206 Master set (5000+ cards)....cannot account for any of these 6 cards claimed by T206Resource.

3....I have nearly completed the AB 460 run (72 cards of 74). And, in the 12 years of this project, I have never seen this Ames card with an AB 460 back.

4....Long time collector Adam Goldenberg's (nearly) complete PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 run (72 cards) cannot account for the 4 cards (Bergen, Chance,
Murray, Overall) that T206Resource claims have been confirmed with this rare back.
Check-out Adam's thread regarding PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=242308


Please chime in here if you have any meaningful information which may clear up these 6 "mysterious" cards.

Looking forward to seeing some of you at the National.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[tedzan]

I've had requests for my checklists, so I'll start with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards......


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/CobbBatOffAB460x50.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AB460JenningsHand50xbx.jpg



This list completes the AB 460 run....comprising of 74 subjects

350/460 Series..................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series..................46 subjects

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands in air)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms above head)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand on waist)

Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



TED Z

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
I'm still searching for these 2 cards to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)......DOYLE (portrait)
.

[tedzan]

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/achasep460factory42.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/ChaseP460factory42b.jpg



PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list......72 subjects


350/460 Series...................63 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


460-only Series..................9 subjects

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


I am confident that these 72 cards complete this PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 run.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[tedzan]

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/McGrawGloveUZITxb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/McGrawGloveUZITxSGC30x.jpg



58 subjects with the UZIT back have been confirmed to date (7/11/2018).


350/460 series...............................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball-St Louis)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)

I am 100% confident that the above list of the 28 subjects in the 350/460 series is complete. Note that this list coincides with the confirmed list of
AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 subjects in the 350/460 series (see Post #3). T206 cards with the UZIT back were issued in the Spring of 1911. The UZIT
backs and the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs were printed simultaneously at the tail-end of the T206 press runs.


460-only series..............................30 subjects

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Howie Camnitz (arms up)
Harry Camnitz (arms side)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Frill
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Hummel
Lake (ball-St Louis)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)

Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Schulte (back view)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)
Tinker (bat on)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

The 460-only series list is still a work in progress. I expect as many as 16 more UZIT cards from the 460-only series may eventually be discovered.

Hey guys......if you have a UZIT card that is not listed here, please chime in and show and tell us about it.

Thanks,


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[tedzan]

Last, but not least....to complete this entire picture here is my Red HINDU checklist.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/rh.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/ChaseRedHINDUx25.jpg



Listed here is the current Red HINDU checklist with respect to series......43 subjects have been confirmed to date (7/11/2018).


350/460 series.................... 31 subjects

Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)

Magee (bat)
Murphy (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (fielding)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


The following 4 subjects have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back. All four of these T206's
are possible with this back. And, I fully expect that these cards will eventually be discovered..........

Ames (hands over head)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Reulbach (no glove)



460-only series............the "Exclusive 12" (complete)

Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Jobu]

This game would be more fun if there was any chance that I might be able to win it. :D

I like these threads... keeping the main board spicy in the right kind of way.

[tedzan]

This game would be more fun if there was any chance that I might be able to win it. :D

I like these threads... keeping the main board spicy in the right kind of way.


Hey Bryan

"Spicy".....I like that term, as it quite aptly describes this thread :) You're pretty good at finding tough T-brand backs, so if any
one on this forum could find either of these cards, it would be you.

Seriously though, I'm quite convinced these two cards were never printed....contrary to those on this forum who differ with me.


Look, if the Ames / AB 460 card does appear, I'm not only out $500. I'm out $1000 because my Mutually-Exclusive theory tells
us that the AB 460 T206's are "matched pairs" with the UZIT T206's. Therefore, the Ames / UZIT card will eventually appear.

Anyhow, perhaps we'll meet at the National and continue where we left off last year Talkin' T206's.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

T206Resource (and other sources on Net54) continue the myth that Ames (hands over head) is "confirmed" with an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) back.
Furthermore, these sources also claim that this same Ames card has been confirmed with the UZIT back.

These are IMPOSSIBLE front/back combos !

I'm so certain that the above front/back combos do NOT exist, that I am willing to offer a $500 reward to anyone here who can show me a legitimate card
of Ames with an AB 460 or UZIT back.....thereby disproving my theory.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/5x100sSeries1990x.jpg > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/AmericanBeauty460b34.jpg


. . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/McGrawGloveUZITxb.jpg > > > > > > > > > > http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/5x100sSeries2009x.jpg


A year ago I offered a $500 reward....check-out this thread > http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240984. Obviously, no such Ames card(s) showed up.
One enduring quality of most National's is that you can find virtually every BB card ever issued. So, I figured I would give this experiment one more try.

The Ames (hands over head) is a 350/460 series subject. My research indicates American Lithographic printed the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 backs and
the Red HINDU backs simultaneously......"matched pairs".

Ames has been confirmed with the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 back. It has not yet been confirmed with the Red HINDU back. But, it's just a matter of time
that this Ames card with a Red HINDU back will be discovered.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AmesSweetCap460factory42.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/FordSweetCap460x42.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/GeyerRedHINDUx50b.jpg



Furthermore, Ames card is not the only incorrect info in T206Resource....4 subjects in T206Resource's PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 listing are identified as "confirmed".

These 4 cards, which T206Resource claims to be confirmed, have never been seen ** with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 backs......

Bergen (catching)
Chance (batting)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

For the most part, T206Resource is a dependable site to rely on.....but, they are absolutely mis-informing T206 collectors on these 6 cards noted in this thread.

You can contact me via email.... tedzan11@comcast.net. Or, look for me at the National. I'll be wandering about with $1000 burning a hole in my pocket.
So, if you have either one of these Ames cards to show me, and the card is authentic, then the $500 reward is yours....payable on the spot with cash.


** Note.... In the following post here these facts presented here will be reinforced.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

Ted, since you're calling out t206 resource and other members of this
forum on the Ames AB460 I think it's fair to point out that it's possible
that you started the "myth" when you claimed you had this card in your
70 card AB460 set in this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=91361

[tedzan]

Pat

That was 10 years ago. You brought this up several years ago, of which I told you that Baker and Elberfeld on my list turned out that they were not AB 460 cards.
These 2 cards in my set had paper loss on the lower part of their backs. I had assumed that they were 460's. Subsequently, I realized they were 350's.....My bad.

Also, subsequently I admitted I mistakenly included Ames in my list. Why or how that occurred, I don't recall.


However, I guess you think Ames exists with an AB 460 back ?

Then please find this card and prove me wrong, and I will reward you with $500 cash.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

Ted, I'm not claiming that the Ames AB460 exists I just think it's
inappropriate to single out t206resource as mis-informing collectors
about these cards when you had 4 out of 5 of these cards on your
lists before they did.

You also originally had Bergen (Catching), Murray (portrait), and Overall (blue sky) on your PD42 list.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114645

[RedsFan1941]

now it’s “extra spicy”

[tedzan]

Ted, I'm not claiming that the Ames AB460 exists I just think it's
inappropriate to single out t206resource as mis-informing collectors
about these cards when you had 4 out of 5 of these cards on your
lists before they did.

You also originally had Bergen (Catching), Murray (portrait), and Overall (blue sky) on your PD42 list.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=114645


Pat

You are referring to surveys I conducted 9 years ago (see data below). We were still in the early stages on Net54 in receiving inputs from members of this forum.
The majority of these inputs were valid. Subsequently, a handful of these inputs proved to be incorrect. I was collecting 1000's of inputs from 2006 - 2010 for my
Net54 "FYI surveys" of the various T-brands of the T206 set.

Thanks to Scot Reader; and, guys like Craig Wright and Adam Goldenberg (who were putting together PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 sub-sets) these errors in this
2009 survey were corrected. I try to give credit where credit is due.

Apparently, your T206Resource "buddies" copied my lists for their website. But, they never had the common courtesy to credit me (or other sources for this data).
Furthermore, when I corrected my data, they just ignored it.

Isn't it about time we let bygones be bygones ?


Note......Bergen (catching), Devore, Murray (portrait), Overall (blue sky) were subsequently proven incorrect inputs, and erased from this list.
Dated 9/11/2009

Reprising the "Lonely 12" subjects that have been confirmed with the Piedmont 460/42 back. Please check
the 36-card list posted here and see if you have any of them with this rare PIEDMONT back.

Bergen (catching)
Chase (Trophy)
Devore
Kleinow (Boston)
Latham
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Smith (Boston & Chicago)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I refer to these 12 cards as the "lonely 12" because after years of tracking P460/42 backs, It looks like there
was a very limited printing of the P460/42 backs with respect to the 460-only series.


Here's the list of the remaining 36 cards in the 460-only series that have NOT been confirmed......

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (follow thru)
Bescher (hands in air)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Camnitz (hands at side)
Chance (batting)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hands at waist)
Hummell
Lake (St Louis-ball)
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Meyers
Needham
Oldring (batting)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (batting)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat

Thanks for taking the time to check-out your T206's.

TED Z



TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[Pat R]

Pat

You are referring to surveys I conducted 9 years ago (see data below). We were still in the early stages on Net54 in receiving inputs from members of this forum.
The majority of these inputs were valid. Subsequently, a handful of these inputs proved to be incorrect. I was collecting 1000's of inputs from 2006 - 2010 for my
Net54 "FYI surveys" of the various T-brands of the T206 set.

Thanks to Scot Reader; and, guys like Craig Wright and Adam Goldenberg (who were putting together PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 sub-sets) these errors in this
2009 survey were corrected. I try to give credit where credit is due.

Apparently, your T206Resource "buddies" copied my lists for their website. But, they never had the common courtesy to credit me (or other sources for this data).
Furthermore, when I corrected my data, they just ignored it.

Isn't it about time we let bygones be bygones ?


Note......Bergen (catching), Devore, Murray (portrait), Overall (blue sky) were subsequently proven incorrect inputs, and erased from this list.




TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

Sure Ted but I don't think prove me right and them wrong or that they
supposedly copied your lists is letting bygones be bygones either.

[tedzan]

Sure Ted but I don't think prove me right and them wrong or that they
supposedly copied your lists is letting bygones be bygones either.


"Supposedly copied"...... Pat, the odds of two separate (72-card) surveys having ONE error that is exactly identical on each survey is about 5,000 to 1.

But, here we have THREE identical errors coinciding on these two separate PIEDMONT 460/42 surveys. This increases the odds by orders of magnitude to
about a Million to 1.

Hey guy......there is no way that they independently "confirmed" these same three cards. They did indeed copy my PIEDMONT 460/42 survey from 2008.

And, if you still think that Bergen (catching), Murray (portrait), or Overall (blue sky) exist with PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 backs.....then you can
search for these cards and I will reward you $500 for each legitimate one you find.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[tedzan]

Due to a sprained injury to my leg, I will not be able to attend the National next week.

My $500 reward(s) still stands....if you have (or find) the Ames card with either a UZIT
back, or an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back.

If so, don't hesitate to contact me.... tedzan11@comcast.net.

Have a great National. Hope to see you all in Chicago next year.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.