2018 NBA Finals

[KMayUSA6060]

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

[clydepepper]

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.



Hey, it's BASEBALL Season anyway!

AND The National Spelling Bee was last night too! That was lots of fun...those kids are amazing! One girl sounded like she had swallowed some helium.

… so you don't HAVE TO watch the nba.


.

[gregr2]

And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

This ^^^^^^^

[KMayUSA6060]

Hey, it's BASEBALL Season anyway!

AND The National Spelling Bee was last night too! That was lots of fun...those kids are amazing! One girl sounded like she had swallowed some helium.

… so you don't HAVE TO watch the nba.


.

Correct on it being baseball season. At one point, I had the pleasure of watching the Cavs get screwed by the refs AND dribble out the clock in a tie game, while flipping over to my Indians blowing an 8-0 lead (our bullpen is the worst I've ever seen). At least Lindor knew the game was tied and we needed a run, unlike JR.

I have never been able to get into the National Spelling Bee. Those kids are amazing, but watching them spell words (words that they will more than likely never use ever again) is only slightly more interesting than watching paint dry or grass grow.

[frankbmd]

I don’t believe there will be a spelling bee option for game 2.:eek:

[Peter_Spaeth]

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.

The dangling mouthpiece is really getting old.
How can you not admire Lebron though, what a wondrous player.

[D. Bergin]

That was a fascinating game, poor reffing or not................and it wasn't as bad or as one-sided as Van Gundy (who looooooooves Lebron) and Mark Jackson (who passive aggressively has hated Golden State ever since they fired him) made it seem.

Calls will start to go the Cavs way anyways, if Golden State gets too comfortable or threatens a sweep. That's the way it always goes in the NBA with the refs. Try to extend the series as long as possible.

[D. Bergin]

I haven't watched more than 3 or 4 Cavs games this year (I hate LeBron), but I did watch last night.

Ridiculous game. The refs were pathetic. JR Smith is a massive, massive idiot. And I hate the Warriors. What a bunch of pompous, arrogant aholes.


LOL, I always try and take a different angle on things rather then piling on the goat. What about George Hill missing that free throw to begin with, or the much shorter and boxed out J.R. Smith out-muscling Kevin Durant for that rebound to begin with, that put him in position for that brain fart?

Cavs still had overtime to try and win the game, and they just folded (including a pouting Lebron) after Hill missed that free throw.

[KMayUSA6060]

The dangling mouthpiece is really getting old.
How can you not admire Lebron though, what a wondrous player.

I live in the Akron area and know people who have interacted with LeBron over the years. I have not heard good things about him. Not a huge fan of him at all. I also don't think he's as great of a basketball player as everyone says he is. I think he's a better businessman and has completely changed the landscape of the NBA to benefit his brand.

That was a fascinating game, poor reffing or not................and it wasn't as bad or as one-sided as Van Gundy (who looooooooves Lebron) and Mark Jackson (who passive aggressively has hated Golden State ever since they fired him) made it seem.

Calls will start to go the Cavs way anyways, if Golden State gets too comfortable or threatens a sweep. That's the way it always goes in the NBA with the refs. Try to extend the series as long as possible.

So screwing over the biggest underdog in the last, what, 17 years, essentially leading them to a loss is supposed to extend the series?

LOL, I always try and take a different angle on things rather then piling on the goat. What about George Hill missing that free throw to begin with, or the much shorter and boxed out J.R. Smith out-muscling Kevin Durant for that rebound to begin with, that put him in position for that brain fart?

Cavs still had overtime to try and win the game, and they just folded (including a pouting Lebron) after Hill missed that free throw.

Yes Hill missed the free throw, but should've had a second chance at it due to the uncalled lane violation by Draymond. And yes, the Cavs folded after they blew the end of regulation, another massive flaw of LeBron's - he's mentally weak.

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO you have something personal against LeBron that is coloring your view of him as a basketball player. Mentally weak is about the last charge that can be hung on him. He isn't going to come up the hero every single time, nobody is. As for Smith, stuff happens in the heat of the moment in all that deafening noise.

[barrysloate]

Smith played a few seasons with the Knicks, so I got to see him play regularly. He never impressed me, and often did stupid things. Occasionally he had a hot streak and piled up some points, but he never did anything to make the Knicks a better team. And they tired of him quickly.

And Lebron may not be likable, I have no insight into his personal life, but the guy is a monster basketball player, and has carried the team for the past two months. He has taken a mediocre team to the Finals when there were seemingly better ones in the East, such as Toronto and Boston. I know he can rub fans the wrong way, but I can't find fault with the way he plays.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In addition to his otherworldly talents and ability to play pretty much any position, he is as intelligent a player as I have ever seen. No player in history has singlehandedly carried a team, it's not the nature of the sport, but LeBron is as close as anyone. And remind me, when was the last finals in which he was not playing?

[KMayUSA6060]

Smith played a few seasons with the Knicks, so I got to see him play regularly. He never impressed me, and often did stupid things. Occasionally he had a hot streak and piled up some points, but he never did anything to make the Knicks a better team. And they tired of him quickly.

And Lebron may not be likable, I have no insight into his personal life, but the guy is a monster basketball player, and has carried the team for the past two months. He has taken a mediocre team to the Finals when there were seemingly better ones in the East, such as Toronto and Boston. I know he can rub fans the wrong way, but I can't find fault with the way he plays.

A mediocre team he built. He was the one that fought for Tristan Thompson to get a massive contract a few years ago, which has handicapped the team greatly financially. He was the one that got Blatt fired and replaced him with Lue, who is an absolute joke and is only there because LeBron can easily control him. He is the one behind the scenes approving/making the moves for players. He's the player version of Jerry Jones, and it's horrible.

I have a theory that he keeps a relatively mediocre team around him as a crutch and to build his brand. If he fails, everyone blames the mediocre team around him. If he succeeds, he looks like the GOAT. Like I said previously, I think he's a better businessman than basketball player.

In addition to his otherworldly talents and ability to play pretty much any position, he is as intelligent a player as I have ever seen. No player in history has singlehandedly carried a team, it's not the nature of the sport, but LeBron is as close as anyone. And remind me, when was the last finals in which he was not playing?

Is he really that intelligent basketball wise? He hardly plays defense, aside from the one or two SportsCenter-worthy plays. He settles for longer jump shots where a layup/closer shot would be way better, especially with his physical superiority. He's never been a good free throw shooter, which is embarrassing. He loves playing isolation/hero ball, instead of promoting ball movement which is the backbone of a strong offense.

2009? That's a lot of participation trophies, considering he's only won, what, 3 of them?

People have fallen in love with LeBron because he is a once-in-a-generation talent, no doubt, but more so because he has changed the entire landscape of the NBA to hide his flaws.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He averaged over 9 assists per game this year. His career average is over 7. Are you watching the same player as I am? Jordan's average was just over 5, was he a ball hog too?

[barrysloate]

Kyle- since you live in Ohio and the Cavaliers are your home team, you obviously know more about what goes on than I do. I'm just a fan watching Lebron having monster games and taking a team that should have been knocked out by the second round into the Finals. And it's hard for me to find anything wrong with the way he is playing. I realize there is other stuff going on.

Look, I have to watch the Knicks and Nets every night. You've got the Cavs. You win!

[KMayUSA6060]

He averaged over 9 assists per game this year. His career average is over 7. Are you watching the same player as I am? Jordan's average was just over 5, was he a ball hog too?

Have I said that LeBron is a bad player? He's always been a great passer. However, assists can be deceiving and not produce or be a product of ball movement per se. The iso/hero ball I was talking about is something that's wrong with the NBA in general, but LeBron has made a living, literally living and dying by iso/hero ball in crunch time or at important moments throughout a game. I would also venture to say that assists are easier to come by nowadays with the lazy defense exhibited in today's NBA.

Kyle- since you live in Ohio and the Cavaliers are your home team, you obviously know more about what goes on than I do. I'm just a fan watching Lebron having monster games and taking a team that should have been knocked out by the second round into the Finals. And it's hard for me to find anything wrong with the way he is playing. I realize there is other stuff going on.

Look, I have to watch the Knicks and Nets every night. You've got the Cavs. You win!

I didn't mean to come off as if I was directing anything at you personally. I was just pointing out factors that surround LeBron that people don't pay attention to.

I've got the Browns, too, which automatically cancels out one of the two good teams in Cleveland. Haha.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am sure there were people who found fault with Jordan, and Magic, and Kareem. LeBron is one of the very few best players of all time, if not the best, and I think you are in a small minority criticizing him.

And your analysis that he wants a mediocre team around him strikes me as borderline insane. Recall LeBron went to Miami with the Big Three. He wants to win. That has always defined him.

[barrysloate]

Didn't take it personally Kyle...and I forgot about the Browns, that's brutal. Not that the Jets and Giants are world-beaters. Except for the Yankees, we have a lot of crappy teams in New York.

[KMayUSA6060]

I am sure there were people who found fault with Jordan, and Magic, and Kareem. LeBron is one of the very few best players of all time, if not the best, and I think you are in a small minority criticizing him.

And your analysis that he wants a mediocre team around him strikes me as borderline insane. Recall LeBron went to Miami with the Big Three. He wants to win. That has always defined him.

Never said he wasn't one of the best, but he has the talent to be the best yet lacks the mental toughness and/or intelligence to achieve that honor.

Yes, I remember very vividly when LeBron went to Miami to create the Big Three. He did it because he wanted the easy road, yet still lost, what, 2 titles down there?

LeBron is not above criticism.

Didn't take it personally Kyle...and I forgot about the Browns, that's brutal. Not that the Jets and Giants are world-beaters. Except for the Yankees, we have a lot of crappy teams in New York.

You're telling me.

Speaking of the Yankees, are y'all ready to move Betances?

[Peter_Spaeth]

You're all over the map. First you say he wants to be on a mediocre team so he can stand out, then you say he took the easy way out to be on a great team. He can't win with you. Saying he lacks the intelligence to be the best is contrary to the near-universal assessment of him -- it's his greatest attribute. He has a prodigious memory and understanding of the game. And I just don't know what games you watch if you think he lacks mental toughness.

[KMayUSA6060]

You're all over the map. First you say he wants to be on a mediocre team so he can stand out, then you say he took the easy way out to be on a great team. He can't win with you. Saying he lacks the intelligence to be the best is contrary to the near-universal assessment of him -- it's his greatest attribute. He has a prodigious memory and understanding of the game. And I just don't know what games you watch if you think he lacks mental toughness.

Look, we're going to agree to disagree on LeBron. It is what it is. You and many other people think he's the greatest of all time. I think he's one of the best, but has fallen short of his full potential. You also think he has a high basketball IQ. I think his business acumen is higher than his basketball IQ, hence the state of the NBA right now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Look, we're going to agree to disagree on LeBron. It is what it is. You and many other people think he's the greatest of all time. I think he's one of the best, but has fallen short of his full potential. You also think he has a high basketball IQ. I think his business acumen is higher than his basketball IQ, hence the state of the NBA right now.

I would rank him up there among the very top few with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. It would be hard for me to split hairs among those five.

[KMayUSA6060]

I would rank him up there among the very top few with Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Russell. It would be hard for me to split hairs among those five.

Correct, and my point is I think LeBron's full potential would separate him from those other 4.

[samosa4u]

GSW are a bunch of b*tches. In the 2016 Finals, they were up 3-1 in the series, and look at the stupid things they were doing to LeBron: Draymond hit him in the nuts, while Curry and Klay Thompson were doing so much trash talking - it was pathetic. Then what ended up happening? Cavs won their first ever title. This was probably the biggest choke I have ever seen in the NBA. After that, the GSW began courting Durant. lol What a bunch of losers. I don't care how many titles they win now, but nothing will ever erase that. Oh, and I hope next time the NBA sends Durant to India, a Bengal tiger eats him.

A mediocre team he built. He was the one that fought for Tristan Thompson to get a massive contract a few years ago, which has handicapped the team greatly financially. He was the one that got Blatt fired and replaced him with Lue, who is an absolute joke and is only there because LeBron can easily control him. He is the one behind the scenes approving/making the moves for players. He's the player version of Jerry Jones, and it's horrible.

What's so horrible about it, dude? He took a garbage team to the Finals four times in a row! You shouldn't be complaining about him having too much power in the Cavs organization because he definitely knows what he is doing.

He settles for longer jump shots where a layup/closer shot would be way better, especially with his physical superiority.

He has been shooting a lot from behind the arc during this series, but he has to! When you have Curry, Thompson and Durant making 3 pointers non-stop, then you gotta' try and match that. And it's not as if LeBron has been doing a bad job at it. Furthermore, if he keeps driving to the basket all the time, then he is going to risk getting hurt. Look what GSW did to the poor man's eye.

And I agree with Peter, he is a top 5 player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.

[D. Bergin]

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.


Curry is pretty great. I'd do the shimmy every once in awhile to, if I could hit falling down 35 footers with regularity.

Lebron is great to. The best individual player in basketball, and I disagree with almost everything Kevin says about him...........but is there a bigger whiner in the game? Nearly every single play he doesn't convert on something, he's running down the court (or walking) whining to the referees.

I still respect him because he at least initiates contact to try and draw fouls, unlike Harden over in Houston who falls down a dozen times in every game without anybody touching him, turning the ball over at least half a dozen times every game, just trying to bait the refs.

At least Lebron attempts to FINISH every play, before he puts on his boy who cried wolf act.

[KMayUSA6060]

What's so horrible about it, dude? He took a garbage team to the Finals four times in a row! You shouldn't be complaining about him having too much power in the Cavs organization because he definitely knows what he is doing.

He has been shooting a lot from behind the arc during this series, but he has to! When you have Curry, Thompson and Durant making 3 pointers non-stop, then you gotta' try and match that. And it's not as if LeBron has been doing a bad job at it. Furthermore, if he keeps driving to the basket all the time, then he is going to risk getting hurt. Look what GSW did to the poor man's eye.

Calling the Cavs a garbage team while saying LeBron has a lot of power in the Cavs organization and knows what he's doing is quite contradictory.

Trying to match the Warriors 3-for-3 isn't how you beat them. The Rockets nearly knocked them out in Game 7 by chipping away 2-by-2 with a high-intensity effort. Had they not gone stone cold (missed, what, 26 or so 3s in a row?), they would have won. Nobody can match the Warriors when they're even semi-on, let alone locked & loaded. It takes effort from all other aspects to beat them. And he might get hurt? Boo hoo. Don't play basketball then. He is physically superior to everyone in the NBA. Not driving out of fear of getting hurt is ridiculous.

I have no doubt that Curry is a fine young man, but his on court demeanor is unbelievably obnoxious IMO.

100000000% agree about his on-court demeanor. What a putz.

.....but is there a bigger whiner in the game? Nearly every single play he doesn't convert on something, he's running down the court (or walking) whining to the referees.

No, and it adds to the list of reasons I'm not a fan of LeBron.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Working the officials is part of the game.

[KMayUSA6060]

Working the officials is part of the game.

Bull. What goes on in today's NBA is a complete lack of respect for the officials and zero accountability. It's also complete arrogance.

[barrysloate]

Never said he wasn't one of the best, but he has the talent to be the best yet lacks the mental toughness and/or intelligence to achieve that honor.

Yes, I remember very vividly when LeBron went to Miami to create the Big Three. He did it because he wanted the easy road, yet still lost, what, 2 titles down there?

LeBron is not above criticism.



You're telling me.

Speaking of the Yankees, are y'all ready to move Betances?

We already gave Cleveland Andrew Miller, but if I'm not mistaken didn't Glaeber Torres come from that deal? If so, we may have the Rookie of the Year.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Gleyber came from the Cubs , Chapman deal

And no we are not moving Betances hes our 8th inning guy now with all the injuries and others ineffectiveness

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[pokerplyr80]

IMO you have something personal against LeBron that is coloring your view of him as a basketball player. Mentally weak is about the last charge that can be hung on him. He isn't going to come up the hero every single time, nobody is. As for Smith, stuff happens in the heat of the moment in all that deafening noise.

The only play I remember seeing that even compared to Smith running out the clock at the end of a tied finals game was that Chris Webber time out. That may go down as the biggest mental blunder in sports history.

[KMayUSA6060]

We already gave Cleveland Andrew Miller, but if I'm not mistaken didn't Glaeber Torres come from that deal? If so, we may have the Rookie of the Year.

No, he came from the Chapman deal with the Cubs. We gave you Justice Sheffield and Clint Frazier for Miller.

[KMayUSA6060]

The only play I remember seeing that even compared to Smith running out the clock at the end of a tied finals game was that Chris Webber time out. That may go down as the biggest mental blunder in sports history.

Especially given that the series could be 1-1 right now instead of 0-2.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Especially given that the series could be 1-1 right now instead of 0-2.

Those respect-worthy officials didn't exactly help with the absurd reversal of the charge call on Durant. They had no business reviewing that play, there was no reason at all to think LeBron was in the restricted area.

[pokerplyr80]

Those respect-worthy officials didn't exactly help with the absurd reversal of the charge call on Durant. They had no business reviewing that play, there was no reason at all to think LeBron was in the restricted area.

The reversal was the correct call, James was not set. The fact that two officials signaled two different calls should have been enough to review it. But whatever the reason for the review, the fact that they made the right call in the end is what matters to me.

[samosa4u]

Calling the Cavs a garbage team while saying LeBron has a lot of power in the Cavs organization and knows what he's doing is quite contradictory.

There is nothing contradictory about my statement. LeBron has been sailing a broken ship in the right direction for years. He has learned to make the most out of his crappy players. If you don't like him, then please send him to Toronto.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The reversal was the correct call, James was not set. The fact that two officials signaled two different calls should have been enough to review it. But whatever the reason for the review, the fact that they made the right call in the end is what matters to me.

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

[KMayUSA6060]

There is nothing contradictory about my statement. LeBron has been sailing a broken ship in the right direction for years. He has learned to make the most out of his crappy players. If you don't like him, then please send him to Toronto.

He is the one that has selected his shipmates and put them in positions on the crew to keep the ship broken.

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

Bingo.

[pokerplyr80]

I don't think that's grounds for review, it's grounds for a jump ball.

I am not sure how the rule is written, but when one ref signals block and the other signals charge, and the call is reviewable, it should be reviewed. Just like that GB vs Sea game the packers got hosed on with the replacement refs. One signaled td, the other int. Not a good look in either situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not sure how the rule is written, but when one ref signals block and the other signals charge, and the call is reviewable, it should be reviewed. Just like that GB vs Sea game the packers got hosed on with the replacement refs. One signaled td, the other int. Not a good look in either situation.

The alleged justification for the review was not the difference in whether there was a block or a charge, but rather whether LeBron was in the restricted area. And he was nowhere close.

[pokerplyr80]

The alleged justification for the review was not the difference in whether there was a block or a charge, but rather whether LeBron was in the restricted area. And he was nowhere close.

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

Fine, but the refs are supposed to apply the rule as written, not as you think it should be rewritten.

[pokerplyr80]

Fine, but the refs are supposed to apply the rule as written, not as you think it should be rewritten.

True, I dont watch much basketball except for late in the playoffs. I couldn't tell you if this is a loop hole that's commonly exploited or if this was a rare occurrence. But it seems odd to me that the issue of block vs charge is reviewable only while reviewing if a player was in the restricted area or not. Why make the issue reviewable at all if it can't be reviewed on it's own? That defies logic in my opinion.

[pokerplyr80]

Here's a link to an article that mentions the points were both making. My guess is this rule gets clarified in the off season.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-finals-2018-cavs-vs-warriors-lebron-james-kevin-durant/n9bwe0f688cg1ngbe9pl40hdb

[KMayUSA6060]

I understand the point you're making. I'm fine with the justification if that's what was necessary to get the call right. If they're not allowed to review the call based solely on the issue of block vs. charge then that rule should be rewritten in my opinion.

If it's all about getting the call right, then why not review every single call throughout the game?

True, I dont watch much basketball except for late in the playoffs. I couldn't tell you if this is a loop hole that's commonly exploited or if this was a rare occurrence.

Many people within the game were saying they have never seen what happened, happen before.

[pokerplyr80]

If it's all about getting the call right, then why not review every single call throughout the game?



Many people within the game were saying they have never seen what happened, happen before.

I'm in favor of getting the call right as much as possible in any sport. Especially in key situations late in a game. I'm personally in favor of even reviewing things like ball vs strike, or pass interference if it can be done without drastically slowing down the game.

[barrysloate]

Gleyber came from the Cubs , Chapman deal

And no we are not moving Betances hes our 8th inning guy now with all the injuries and others ineffectiveness

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Thank you. I knew it was one of those relief pitcher trades.

[KMayUSA6060]

The best thing that can happen to the Cavaliers' franchise is LeBron leaving this offseason.

[KMayUSA6060]

LeBron apparently suffered a broken hand after Game 1 when he punched a whiteboard.

Wow.

[Peter_Spaeth]

LeBron apparently suffered a broken hand after Game 1 when he punched a whiteboard.

Wow.

He'll soon be gone, and you can go back to enjoying a mediocre team that won't make the playoffs.

[pokerplyr80]

LeBron apparently suffered a broken hand after Game 1 when he punched a whiteboard.

Wow.

Yea I heard that too. That's even worse than Smith running out the clock in game 1 in my opinion.

[frankbmd]

...................I'm personally in favor of even reviewing things like ball vs strike, or pass interference if it can be done without drastically slowing down the game.

Cricket

Relax, have some tea. If we don’t finish the match today, we can finish it in the morning.

[clydepepper]

Cricket

Relax, have some tea. If we don’t finish the match today, we can finish it in the morning.



Not 'Cricket'...

CRICKETS (pipped in sound effects, please)


.

[samosa4u]

The best thing that can happen to the Cavaliers' franchise is LeBron leaving this offseason.

You are ungrateful and don't deserve that championship (that LeBron won for you). I really hope that he does leave the Cavs. At least the Raptors will be able to beat you guys in the playoffs then - oh wait! What am I saying? You guys won't even make the playoffs! :D

[KMayUSA6060]

He'll soon be gone, and you can go back to enjoying a mediocre team that won't make the playoffs.

We'll see. If they follow the model of the Celtics, I think they'll be just fine. Me personally, once LeBron leaves, I'm firing Lue and heading to Philly to speak with Jay Wright. I'm handing him a blank check and telling him to write whatever number it will take to get him to coach the Cavs.

Yea I heard that too. That's even worse than Smith running out the clock in game 1 in my opinion.

Agreed. How juvenile.

You are ungrateful and don't deserve that championship (that LeBron won for you). I really hope that he does leave the Cavs. At least the Raptors will be able to beat you guys in the playoffs then - oh wait! What am I saying? You guys won't even make the playoffs! :D

Ungrateful? Beyond the one championship, what should I be grateful for? The 4 NBA Finals losses? Taking to National TV for The Decision to let everyone know he won't be a Cavalier, completely embarrassing the Cleveland fan base? Doing The Decision so late in free agency that the Cavs had no time or options for a Plan B? Punching a whiteboard after a Game 1 loss, breaking his hand, and then dogging it in Game 4?

I'm thankful for the economic impact on NEO, and the championship. But I refuse to buy into the narrative that we owe LeBron everything.

I'm surprised you like LeBron as a Toronto fan, considering he stole Chris Velociratpor Bosh from you guys for his own selfish agenda.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Making it to four finals in a row is pretty damn good for a fan. How many fans ever get anything close to that?

The Decision was ridiculous, I agree with you there. A low point for him.

[barrysloate]

The Cavs go to the Finals four times and win one championship; and we have the Knicks and the Nets, two of the most dysfunctional franchises in all of professional sports. You want to swap?

[KMayUSA6060]

Making it to four finals in a row is pretty damn good for a fan. How many fans ever get anything close to that?

The Decision was ridiculous, I agree with you there. A low point for him.

You're not wrong, but I also view basketball a bit differently, especially with LeBron. I don't see that as much of an accomplishment with the state of the NBA right now and its very few number of teams that actually have a shot.

The Cavs go to the Finals four times and win one championship; and we have the Knicks and the Nets, two of the most dysfunctional franchises in all of professional sports. You want to swap?

No thanks. I had 4 years of the worst team in basketball and have the Browns. Not to mention the amount of heartbreak I've endured with the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and my favorite college (Akron Zips).

[barrysloate]

You're not wrong, but I also view basketball a bit differently, especially with LeBron. I don't see that as much of an accomplishment with the state of the NBA right now and its very few number of teams that actually have a shot.



No thanks. I had 4 years of the worst team in basketball and have the Browns. Not to mention the amount of heartbreak I've endured with the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and my favorite college (Akron Zips).

And I was hoping this would be my chance to dump those two franchises. Darn.

[Peter_Spaeth]

No thanks. I had 4 years of the worst team in basketball and have the Browns. Not to mention the amount of heartbreak I've endured with the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and my favorite college (Akron Zips).

My friend it's about to get worse. Welcome to a .500 team a best, IMO. You'll be missing LeBron, flaws and all.

[KMayUSA6060]

My friend it's about to get worse. Welcome to a .500 team a best, IMO. You'll be missing LeBron, flaws and all.

See I don't think so. When he left before, what did we have? Nothing.

This time, we have Love and the 8th overall pick. Two good building blocks, should we choose to keep them. If we don't keep Love and/or the 8th pick, we'll turn them into a good building piece. It's different this time. It's going to come down to who our GM is (if it's Altman or not), and who we hire as our new coach (no way do we keep Lue if LeBron leaves).

[pokerplyr80]

You're not wrong, but I also view basketball a bit differently, especially with LeBron. I don't see that as much of an accomplishment with the state of the NBA right now and its very few number of teams that actually have a shot.



No thanks. I had 4 years of the worst team in basketball and have the Browns. Not to mention the amount of heartbreak I've endured with the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and my favorite college (Akron Zips).

I don't understand your line of reasoning. 4 straight appearances in the finals doesn't impress you because few times are good enough to reach the finals? What would it take for you to view what they achieved as an accomplishment?

[JCC]

See I don't think so. When he left before, what did we have? Nothing.

This time, we have Love and the 8th overall pick. Two good building blocks, should we choose to keep them. If we don't keep Love and/or the 8th pick, we'll turn them into a good building piece. It's different this time. It's going to come down to who our GM is (if it's Altman or not), and who we hire as our new coach (no way do we keep Lue if LeBron leaves).


I have no idea why everyone keeps talking about this 8th pick like it is some Holy Grail. Typically a pick that far down will not be consequential to a teams future. Take a look at previous draft history of similar spots...not pretty. Sure, a diamond can be found, but the odds say it’s not likely. The value of the pick was lost with each Nets victory this past season. Cavs will be an ‘also ran’ without LeBron for quite some time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have no idea why everyone keeps talking about this 8th pick like it is some Holy Grail. Typically a pick that far down will not be consequential to a teams future. Take a look at previous draft history of similar spots...not pretty. Sure, a diamond can be found, but the odds say it’s not likely. The value of the pick was lost with each Nets victory this past season. Cavs will be an ‘also ran’ without LeBron for quite some time.

Agree completely. If you're pinning your franchise's hope on the No.8 pick then heaven help you.

[KMayUSA6060]

I have no idea why everyone keeps talking about this 8th pick like it is some Holy Grail. Typically a pick that far down will not be consequential to a teams future. Take a look at previous draft history of similar spots...not pretty. Sure, a diamond can be found, but the odds say it’s not likely. The value of the pick was lost with each Nets victory this past season. Cavs will be an ‘also ran’ without LeBron for quite some time.

The odds of any draft pick aren't good. However, with proper scouting, the right, young talent can be found.

I don't understand your line of reasoning. 4 straight appearances in the finals doesn't impress you because few times are good enough to reach the finals? What would it take for you to view what they achieved as an accomplishment?

It would take a more competitive NBA and a lack of super teams. 7 of the 8 straight Finals he's too, he's had two of the following: Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving.

Agree completely. If you're pinning your franchise's hope on the No.8 pick then heaven help you.

Not pinning my hopes on the No. 8 pick. Just saying it could be a valuable asset that keeps the floor higher without LeBron his time.

[barrysloate]

I think Stephen Curry went #7 or 8. And Giannis Antete-whatever went #15. So it's possible to get someone great at #8, but nothing is guaranteed.

[frankbmd]

I think Stephen Curry went #7 or 8. And Giannis Antete-whatever went #15. So it's possible to get someone great at #8, but nothing is guaranteed.

Who s this giant ant of whom you speak?:D

[barrysloate]

Who s this giant ant of whom you speak?:D

If I could pronounce it I would tell you.:(

[1952boyntoncollector]

Agree completely. If you're pinning your franchise's hope on the No.8 pick then heaven help you.

Agree completely, maybe you get an offensive guy that cant play defense..

Heck Cleveland had the number one pick overall and got Andrew Wiggins in 2014.....i dont think you can get anyone better than him 99% of the time with a #8 pick pick and he wouldnt be enough even now with 4 years experience to get cleveland more than 30 wins without lebron.. so good luck with a rookie..'

The way to go for superstars with the #8 or or so is just reach for a guy thats in high school or europe with no film or guys that can be super super offense.. (stephen curry type..good...jimmy fredette not good)...90% of the time they will flame out or suck but maybe you hit lightening in a bottle to get a superstar...if you take some safe guy like Frank Komiinsky, Stanley Johnson type, yeah most of the time he will be better than than the reach guy but he still isnt going to help your team get to the next level anyway so who cares......all or nothing is fine for me when you picking #8 or so....no value guys there..all or nothing.

Dirk Norwitzki pick number 9 all or nothing.....all


The last 6 Number 8 picks....all things being equal salary cap wise etc...would you rather have Lebron even at his age versus those 6 guys? Yeah number 8 picks really means its franchise changing...

Frank Ntilikina
Maquese Chriss
Stanley Johnson
Nick Stauskas
Kenivaus Caldwell-Pope
Terence Ross



Lebron James and 5 best D-Leaguers are better than those 6 guys

[barrysloate]

Chances are if Lebron leaves Cleveland is a lottery team, or maybe an eighth-seed playoff team. Glory days will be over. That said, they should still draft a quality player with their #8 pick.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Chances are if Lebron leaves Cleveland is a lottery team, or maybe an eighth-seed playoff team. Glory days will be over. That said, they should still draft a quality player with their #8 pick.

No way playoff team....they are a bottom 5 team for sure, maybe worst team l..... cleveland has quality players now on roster., ..but quality players dont win you 45 games..you need all stars......Triston Thompson next year will likely be better than whoever plays for them with the number 8 pick......it was really bad for cleveland that brooklyn couldnt get them a lottery pick...

[barrysloate]

No way playoff team....they are a bottom 5 team for sure, maybe worst team l..... cleveland has quality players now on roster., ..but quality players dont win you 45 games..you need all stars......Triston Thompson next year will likely be better than whoever plays for them with the number 8 pick......it was really bad for cleveland that brooklyn couldnt get them a lottery pick...

You may be right.

[KMayUSA6060]

For those of you focused on the #8 pick, I need to clarify apparently that I'm not building my team around the #8 pick. I'm building around Kevin Love and a free agent or two, however we choose to split up the salary cap space we get with LeBron leaving.

So let's say you have Love, a good 6th man or two, and the #8 pick. That's a playoff 4, in my opinion, assuming you don't completely whiff with the pick. Plus, it all comes down to coach/system.

[Peter_Spaeth]

For those of you focused on the #8 pick, I need to clarify apparently that I'm not building my team around the #8 pick. I'm building around Kevin Love and a free agent or two, however we choose to split up the salary cap space we get with LeBron leaving.

So let's say you have Love, a good 6th man or two, and the #8 pick. That's a playoff 4, in my opinion, assuming you don't completely whiff with the pick. Plus, it all comes down to coach/system.

I suppose if you come up with a major star free agent anything is possible, but I would bet no playoffs at this point. The draft pick I see as essentially meaningless until proven otherwise.

[KMayUSA6060]

I suppose if you come up with a major star free agent anything is possible, but I would bet no playoffs at this point. The draft pick I see as essentially meaningless until proven otherwise.

We'll see.

By the way, Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce were each selected #10 overall. The pick isn't meaningless.

[Bored5000]

You're not wrong, but I also view basketball a bit differently, especially with LeBron. I don't see that as much of an accomplishment with the state of the NBA right now and its very few number of teams that actually have a shot.



No thanks. I had 4 years of the worst team in basketball and have the Browns. Not to mention the amount of heartbreak I've endured with the Browns, Indians, Cavs, and my favorite college (Akron Zips).

I am not making fun of Cleveland at all, but Lebron came back home, won the city's first major championship in 50 years and you are really bitching about him and what he did over the past four seasons.

Without Lebron, when exactly would Cleveland get its first championship sine the Browns in '64?

[Peter_Spaeth]

We'll see.

By the way, Joe Johnson and Paul Pierce were each selected #10 overall. The pick isn't meaningless.

I said, until proven otherwise. The odds are very long it's going to yield a legitimate star player. Anything is possible of course.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not making fun of Cleveland at all, but Lebron came back home, won the city's first major championship in 50 years and you are really bitching about him and what he did over the past four seasons.

Without Lebron, when exactly would Cleveland get its first championship sine the Browns in '64?

They'd be building a statue of Kevin Love. :eek:

[KMayUSA6060]

I am not making fun of Cleveland at all, but Lebron came back home, won the city's first major championship in 50 years and you are really bitching about him and what he did over the past four seasons.

Without Lebron, when exactly would Cleveland get its first championship sine the Browns in '64?

Yes, because when I have the best player in basketball (possibly ever) on my team, I expect to go better than 1-4 in the finals throughout his 11 years with my team; two of those losses being sweeps, one loss being a 4-1 series loss to boot. God forbid I hold LeBron - the self-anointed "King" - to a higher standard than the average player.

Like I said, I'm thankful for the Championship. His antics, the constant drama, and the four finals losses are a lot to put up with, and don't warrant further gratitude. When he took "his talents to South Beach" and delivered two titles for them, completely transforming the NBA, it doesn't bode well in my eyes to then come back and go 1-3 in the next four finals, losing to a team he essentially created via his own selfish actions.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a team game. Great as one player is, it's a team game. The Warriors have the far far better team. IMO it's a testament to James that Cleveland even beat them once. You could swap out LeBron for Jordan or Magic or whoever you like and they still win one at most, or maybe none.

[KMayUSA6060]

It's a team game. Great as one player is, it's a team game. The Warriors have the far far better team. IMO it's a testament to James that Cleveland even beat them once. You could swap out LeBron for Jordan or Magic or whoever you like and they still win one at most, or maybe none.

No way. They probably win at least 2, maybe 3. Remember, LeBron had Kyrie & Love for three out of the four (one of them had injuries though) before he ran Kyrie out of town. The Warriors are good, but they're beatable, and I expect the best player in the world to figure out a way to beat them more than once.

[Peter_Spaeth]

No way. They probably win at least 2, maybe 3. Remember, LeBron had Kyrie & Love for three out of the four (one of them had injuries though) before he ran Kyrie out of town. The Warriors are good, but they're beatable, and I expect the best player in the world to figure out a way to beat them more than once.

Well neither of us can prove it of course, so we can just disagree. From my perspective if either Jordan or Magic was better than LeBron, it was by a hair only. Jordan had Pippen (worlds better than Love IMO) and Rodman, Magic had a guy named Kareem and a slew of other All-Stars.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I said, until proven otherwise. The odds are very long it's going to yield a legitimate star player. Anything is possible of course.

With paul pierce..you needed ray allen and keven garnett.....plus like peter said..its long odds...... getting someone like Paul Pierce is an exception not the rule ...you can also pick up a free agent nobody like Whiteside that turns into a good player as well....but again thats an exception....

[Bored5000]

Yes, because when I have the best player in basketball (possibly ever) on my team, I expect to go better than 1-4 in the finals throughout his 11 years with my team; two of those losses being sweeps, one loss being a 4-1 series loss to boot. God forbid I hold LeBron - the self-anointed "King" - to a higher standard than the average player.

Like I said, I'm thankful for the Championship. His antics, the constant drama, and the four finals losses are a lot to put up with, and don't warrant further gratitude. When he took "his talents to South Beach" and delivered two titles for them, completely transforming the NBA, it doesn't bode well in my eyes to then come back and go 1-3 in the next four finals, losing to a team he essentially created via his own selfish actions.

Jeez, the roster of Golden State is better than the Cavaliers. With the talent the Cavs have, they really didn't have any right to get to four straight Finals. They reached the Finals four straight years because of Lebron James. Bitching about the guy who single-handedly took the team to four straight finals just really seems like awful fandom to me. You honestly feel that the Cavaliers went 1-3 in the Finals because Lebron James didn't do enough for them to win?

The "taking my talents to South Beach" was bad. No one disputes that, but the guy also came back home and won the city it's first title in 50 years. I suspect you would not have had much of an issue if the press conference was an announcement that he was "taking my talents back to Cleveland."

He delivered two titles to Miami because he had better players around him in Miami. Like I said earlier, I am not making fun of Cleveland. But it is never going to be one of the top-flight choices for NBA free agents.

[KMayUSA6060]

Jeez, the roster of Golden State is better than the Cavaliers. With the talent the Cavs have, they really didn't have any right to get to four straight Finals. They reached the Finals four straight years because of Lebron James. Bitching about the guy who single-handedly took the team to four straight finals just really seems like awful fandom to me. You honestly feel that the Cavaliers went 1-3 in the Finals because Lebron James didn't do enough for them to win?

The "taking my talents to South Beach" was bad. No one disputes that, but the guy also came back home and won the city it's first title in 50 years. I suspect you would not have had much of an issue if the press conference was an announcement that he was "taking my talents back to Cleveland."

He delivered two titles to Miami because he had better players around him in Miami. Like I said earlier, I am not making fun of Cleveland. But it is never going to be one of the top-flight choices for NBA free agents.

1) 3/4 Finals included Kyrie on the Cavs roster, and all four had Kevin Love. They had the talent.

2) I'm not saying he didn't do enough. I'm saying some of his decisions were ultimately detrimental to the Cavs' success in the Finals. i.e. Pushing for JR & Tristan Thompson to get massive contracts, pushing Kyrie out, pushing for Ty Lue to be hired, his style of play/game plans, etc.

3) Ridiculous statement. Anywhere LeBron goes is attractive to players, especially players that fit the 6th man role well, something we could have used. Also, Cleveland isn't as "ugly" as it used to be - 4 straight NBA Finals, 2016 World Series, RNC, revitalization of the night life with The Flats restoration - it's been a happenin' place. The other issue was, after all of these big contracts that LeBron pushed for "his boys" to get, the Cavs were handicapped salary wise. The Cavs are DEEP into the luxury tax.

[Bored5000]

1) 3/4 Finals included Kyrie on the Cavs roster, and all four had Kevin Love. They had the talent.

2) I'm not saying he didn't do enough. I'm saying some of his decisions were ultimately detrimental to the Cavs' success in the Finals. i.e. Pushing for JR & Tristan Thompson to get massive contracts, pushing Kyrie out, pushing for Ty Lue to be hired, his style of play/game plans, etc.

3) Ridiculous statement. Anywhere LeBron goes is attractive to players, especially players that fit the 6th man role well, something we could have used. Also, Cleveland isn't as "ugly" as it used to be - 4 straight NBA Finals, 2016 World Series, RNC, revitalization of the night life with The Flats restoration - it's been a happenin' place. The other issue was, after all of these big contracts that LeBron pushed for "his boys" to get, the Cavs were handicapped salary wise. The Cavs are DEEP into the luxury tax.

We will just have to disagree that the Cavaliers had equal talent to the Warriors. The Cavs do not have a second superstar on par with Kevin Durant. History has shown over and over again that you all but need a second dominant superstar to win the title in the NBA.

I don't understand your point at all when you say any place Lebron goes is attractive to players, yet earlier in the thread you made the case that him leaving would be the best thing that ever happened to the franchise. Cleveland was attractive to Lebron James because he grew up in Ohio. It is still a cold, northern city without any history of winning.

In a larger sense, I think it is a problem for the NBA that so many of the cities have almost no chance of ever winning unless they get incredibly lucky in the draft.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah 30 is sure a lot of teams. There's almost nothing worse than an NBA game between two bad teams, IMO.

[KMayUSA6060]

We will just have to disagree that the Cavaliers had equal talent to the Warriors. The Cavs do not have a second superstar on par with Kevin Durant. History has shown over and over again that you all but need a second dominant superstar to win the title in the NBA.

I don't understand your point at all when you say any place Lebron goes is attractive to players, yet earlier in the thread you made the case that him leaving would be the best thing that ever happened to the franchise. Cleveland was attractive to Lebron James because he grew up in Ohio. It is still a cold, northern city without any history of winning.

In a larger sense, I think it is a problem for the NBA that so many of the cities have almost no chance of ever winning unless they get incredibly lucky in the draft.

1) Two out of the four years they had healthy, equal talent and split 50/50, only winning 1 game one of those years. I would also venture to say that the talent gap this year didn't warrant a sweep.

2) Both statements are correct. You said Cleveland isn't an attractive destination for free agents. Any place is attractive with LeBron. Also, I think a fresh rebuild with a better system would be the best possible thing for the Cavs because I don't think LeBron's way of doing things is the most lucrative from a basketball-success standpoint.

3) Agreed.

[gopherfan]

Yes, because when I have the best player in basketball (possibly ever) on my team, I expect to go better than 1-4 in the finals throughout his 11 years with my team; two of those losses being sweeps, one loss being a 4-1 series loss to boot. God forbid I hold LeBron - the self-anointed "King" - to a higher standard than the average player.

Like I said, I'm thankful for the Championship. His antics, the constant drama, and the four finals losses are a lot to put up with, and don't warrant further gratitude. When he took "his talents to South Beach" and delivered two titles for them, completely transforming the NBA, it doesn't bode well in my eyes to then come back and go 1-3 in the next four finals, losing to a team he essentially created via his own selfish actions.

I think this is a very good take. Lebron was the first to create the "Super" team. And now it is coming back to bite him. He can't beat the "Super" team.

I love Lebron. I think he is one of the best, maybe the best ever to play the game. I hate his constant crying. He is incredibly strong, and doesn't get all of the foul calls he deserves, but he also looks like a big baby after every single play. Running around with his hands out, and like he may actually be on the verge of tears. It gets tiring to watch.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think this is a very good take. Lebron was the first to create the "Super" team. And now it is coming back to bite him. He can't beat the "Super" team.

I love Lebron. I think he is one of the best, maybe the best ever to play the game. I hate his constant crying. He is incredibly strong, and doesn't get all of the foul calls he deserves, but he also looks like a big baby after every single play. Running around with his hands out, and like he may actually be on the verge of tears. It gets tiring to watch.

Magic, Jabbar and Worthy were not a super team? That's two top 10 all time players and one who at least when the list came out years ago was top 50. Or decades earlier, West, Wilt and Baylor.

[nolemmings]

I took him to mean that LeBron created the super team through "The Decision", not that it was the first super team.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Got it.

[gopherfan]

Magic and Worthy were acquired through the draft. They didn't all call each other and say, "Hey, let's go to the Lakers and beat everyone for not 1, not 2, not 3 etc...."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah, different age. And another media circus likely is upon us for Lebron's next Decision.

[KMayUSA6060]

Yeah, different age. And another media circus likely is upon us for Lebron's next Decision.

I swear, if he drags this out like he did last time... :mad:

[ALR-bishop]

....you will say negative things about him ? :)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Funny though..now Golden State is this big titan.....but if they lose to Houston because paul doesnt get injured...we are all saying whats wrong with Golden State and they need to add someone to compete with Houston like Lebron.

Houston was up 3-2 when had a healthy paul and had another home game...a


no way they lose game 7 at home with healthy paul...

[KMayUSA6060]

Funny though..now Golden State is this big titan.....but if they lose to Houston because paul doesnt get injured...we are all saying whats wrong with Golden State and they need to add someone to compete with Houston like Lebron.

Houston was up 3-2 when had a healthy paul and had another home game...a


no way they lose game 7 at home with healthy paul...

Correct.

[barrysloate]

Well LeBron is a Laker...4 years, $154 million.

[rjackson44]

Barry I just fainted

[KMayUSA6060]

Thank goodness. Only disappointing thing about his decision is he didn't do a sign and trade.

Enjoy getting knocked out in the Western Conference Playoffs every year, "King".

[brett 75]

Is it a super team adding Lebron or do they need to add another star? Can the Ball family deal with not being the spot light in LA ? This is going to get interesting. :eek:

[itjclarke]

Cousins to the Warriors.. definitely steals at least some of the Lebron Laker hype. Crazy, 5x all star starting 5, and cousins took a big discount at $5M/years. He won’t be ready the first couple months of the season, but it really doesn’t matter. There is no need to hurry him back.