Mastro Auctions: Looking for Former Employees

[marzoumanian]

Greetings. I'm a vintage card collector (30+ years) working on a nonfiction book detailing what occurred at Mastro Auctions. Am trying to get background information on what it was like to work at the AH during its heyday (1996-2008). If you would be willing to speak to me on the record OR on background only, please provide me with contact info and I'll follow up.
Or, does anyone know how to reach any of these people?
My objective is to document a full and accurate story. Thanks for any help you would be willing to provide. I'm Chicago-based.

Mark Arzoumanian

[mantlefan]

Mark Theotakis, a convicted Mastro felon, now works at Heritage.

As for victims of these crooks, this site is full of them, myself included.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mr. Allen is in Pekin, IL, or was at last report.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/allen-begins-serving-prison-sentence/

Corrected per update at end of story.

[mantlefan]

Mr. Allen is in Morgantown, W Va.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/allen-begins-serving-prison-sentence/

LOL, Peter.

[brianp-beme]

There are plenty of rocks one might look under for some of the former staff.

Brian

[calvindog]

Mr. Allen is in Pekin, IL, or was at last report.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/allen-begins-serving-prison-sentence/

Corrected per update at end of story.

From what I understand, because Doug claimed to the court he was not only a crook but also a drunk, he is eligible for the Residential Drug Abuse Program which could have him out of jail at the end of this year. Which means you should all keep your hands on your wallets when that occurs.

[mantlefan]

From what I understand, because Doug claimed to the court he was not only a crook but also a drunk, he is eligible for the Residential Drug Abuse Program which could have him out of jail at the end of this year. Which means you should all keep your hands on your wallets when that occurs.

I guess a job at Heritage awaits him as well!

[keithsky]

I can't believe Heritage would hire somebody like that from Mastro's. Don't they think there's no one else qualified out there without someone with a criminal record. You go to jail come out and there's a job waiting for you in the same field that you got busted for. Amazing.

[Leon]

I will put in a good word for Theo. Personally I think he is the epitome of good people can make bad mistakes. I have made bad ones before too and am thankful for a second chance.

[Rich Klein]

I can't believe Heritage would hire somebody like that from Mastro's. Don't they think there's no one else qualified out there without some crook with a criminal record. You go to jail come out and there's a job waiting for you in the same field that you got busted for. Amazing.

Simplest terms, he know the people with the good buyers and material are and Heritage thinks he can help them get those consignments/buyers to do more business with Heritage. Business decision, pure and simple

Rich

[Yoda]

I will put in a good word for Theo. Personally I think he is the epitome of good people can make bad mistakes. I have made bad ones before too and am thankful for a second chance.

Well put. Leon

[keithsky]

I agree people deserve a second chance but in the professional that there were sent to jail for? For example if someone works in a bank and steals money and personal info on customers and went to jail for it do you think the banking industry should hire that person back? I don't think they would. Plenty of other jobs out there. Wasn't Mastro ban from being in the Sports Memoribilia field now?

[Brian Van Horn]

I agree people deserve a second chance but maybe not in the professional that there were sent to jail for. For example if someone works in a bank and steals money and personal info on customers and went to jail for it do you think the banking industry should hire that person back? I don't think they would. Plenty of other jobs out there. Wasn't Mastro ban from being in the Sports Memoribilia field now?

I agree, but I can't help but think of Frank Abagnale.

[mantlefan]

I agree people deserve a second chance but in the professional that there were sent to jail for? For example if someone works in a bank and steals money and personal info on customers and went to jail for it do you think the banking industry should hire that person back? I don't think they would. Plenty of other jobs out there. Wasn't Mastro ban from being in the Sports Memoribilia field now?

+1 Keith.

I plan on looking up Theotakis in Cleveland. I think we all should. Let him and HA know what we think of them.

Who in their right mind would consign with Heritage thru MT? He is toxic. Second chances should be given, but not a second chance for shilling and cheating Hobbyists. Let him get a job at the Post Office. Oh, I forgot, they don't hire ex-cons.

[oldjudge]

I agree with Leon 100%. Mark did his time and I hope being around the quality guys at Heritage will allow him, over time, the opportunity to repair his reputation.

[buymycards]

+1 Keith.

Second chances should be given, but not a second chance for shilling and cheating Hobbyists. Let him get a job at the Post Office. Oh, I forgot, they don't hire ex-cons.

Yes, they do. Several years ago I interviewed and hired a person who had committed a felony when he was in his late teens. We discussed it at the interview and I hired him. He turned out to be one of the best employees that I hired during my 18 years as a Postmaster.

Rick

[GaryPassamonte]

I always liked Mark, too, but I don't like the fact that he was part of a plan that stole several thousand dollars from me and many, many others. I am all for second chances, but I know my conscience would not rest knowing zero effort has been made to pay restitution to the bilked bidders.

[Buythatcard]

People should be given second chances in life but not allowed back in the same industry where they committed a crime.

I was shilled by Mastro and I can never forgive anyone who has ripped me off. I worked very hard my whole life to make a living. I am not going to forgive someone who stole money from me.

We should be trying to clean the hobby up. We are not here to give second chances to people who took advantage of us.

I have been a customer of Heritage for several years and now am having second thoughts after hearing who they hired.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree with Leon 100%. Mark did his time and I hope being around the quality guys at Heritage will allow him, over time, the opportunity to repair his reputation.

Would you feel the same way if Heritage had hired Bill Mastro?

[oldjudge]

Would you feel the same way if Heritage had hired Bill Mastro?

That's a hypothetical that would never happen. However, Mike Milken has been accepted back into the finance industry. Steroid users are allowed back into baseball. Look at A-Rod now as a commentator on ESPN game broadcasts.
Speaking of which, did anyone else catch when Jessica Mendoza (with A-Rod sitting right next to her), talking about Albert Pujols, saying that 3000 hits and 600 homers is an automatic entry to the HOF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I repeat the question that you didn't answer.:)

[oldjudge]

As I said, it is a hypothetical that would never happen. However, if it does, I will be happy to tell you at that time how I feel.

[Leon]

As I said, it is a hypothetical that would never happen. However, if it does, I will be happy to tell you at that time how I feel.

Sweet. I am using that with my wife. :cool:

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah, see how well that goes over.

[mechanicalman]

I agree with Leon 100%. Mark did his time and I hope being around the quality guys at Heritage will allow him, over time, the opportunity to repair his reputation.

I’m curious about your stance. When NJ Dunkin admitted his wrongdoing (which was relatively minor in comparison to anything connected with Mastro), you were among the first to write him off with a “bye, Felicia” (which was funny, but that’s not the point.) So after NJ does his “time,” can we rightfully sssume you’d support his reentry into the mainstream so he can rebuild his reputation?

Sam Sw@rtz, but my full name is always in the header

[mantlefan]

People should be given second chances in life but not allowed back in the same industry where they committed a crime.

I was shilled by Mastro and I can never forgive anyone who has ripped me off. I worked very hard my whole life to make a living. I am not going to forgive someone who stole money from me.

We should be trying to clean the hobby up. We are not here to give second chances to people who took advantage of us.

I have been a customer of Heritage for several years and now am having second thoughts after hearing who they hired.

I feel the same way, Howard, and I emailed Chris Ivy when this first came out.

Basically Ivy told me to pound sand.


Edited to add:


"Pound Sand"

"The origin of the expression "go pound sand" is from a longer expression, "not to know (have enough sense to) pound sand down a rathole. "Filling rat holes with sand is menial work, and telling someone to pound sand down a hole is like telling them to go fly a kite. The expression dates to at least 1912 and is common in the midwestern United States."

[keithsky]

Just curious I'm wondering if the people that support the guy from Mastro and saying he deserves a second chance and how nice of a guy he is would feel different if they got ripped of by him and the other Mastro guys and lost thousands of dollars. If I got ripped off by Mastro and the boys I sure wouldn't be on here saying nice things about him but that's just me.

[ls7plus]

I will put in a good word for Theo. Personally I think he is the epitome of good people can make bad mistakes. I have made bad ones before too and am thankful for a second chance.

A big +1 there! Haven't we all?

Highest regards,

Larry

[ls7plus]

I agree, but I can't help but think of Frank Abagnale.

Absolutely! Wasn't that some movie with DiCapprio, Brian?

Best wishes always,

Larry

PS: I hope you gain access to the information necessary to thoroughly research your book, Mark. I look forward to reading it!

[Kenny Cole]

Nope. The fact that Heritage hired him simply cements the fact that I won't bid in one of their auctions again. Stuff doesn't always trump everything, nor should it IMO, so I'm out. I'm all for second chances, but not in the same industry where you have already displayed your inability to follow the basic rules that you lie about following. There are simply too many other options available that haven't yet disappointed me.

[slipk1068]

Just curious I'm wondering if the people that support the guy from Mastro and saying he deserves a second chance and how nice of a guy he is would feel different if they got ripped of by him and the other Mastro guys and lost thousands of dollars. If I got ripped off by Mastro and the boys I sure wouldn't be on here saying nice things about him but that's just me.

Many here love Mastro. He made them thousands of dollars.

[mantlefan]

...and many people were ripped off for thousands by Mastro and aren't very happy.

Second chances are for the errors of youth. For adults of Theotakis' age, fraudulently shilling auctions and robbing tens of thousands of dollars was an act of crass greed. He knew that he was willfully and willingly cheating. He profited and he has admitted his sins. He has confessed his shameful actions, but I don't recall him providing any restitution to his victims. This was NOT a victimless crime and his victims are due restitution. That's where his second chance should begin. A simple mea culpa just doesn't work for this kind of criminal.

[timn1]

I agree. What is the difference between mark and Mastro or Allen? I’m amazed that people I consider men of integrity like Leon and Jay are so casual about the idea that someone with this history should be welcomed back into the same hobby that he ripped off.


Nope. The fact that Heritage hired him simply cements the fact that I won't bid in one of their auctions again. Stuff doesn't always trump everything, nor should it IMO, so I'm out. I'm all for second chances, but not in the same industry where you have already displayed your inability to follow the basic rules that you lie about following. There are simply too many other options available that haven't yet disappointed me.

[Kenny Cole]

+1. 100% agree with everything Frank said. Something about fool me once ....

...and many people were ripped off for thousands by Mastro and aren't very happy.

Second chances are for the errors of youth. For adults of Theotakis' age, fraudulently shilling auctions and robbing tens of thousands of dollars was an act of crass greed. He knew that he was willfully and willingly cheating. He profited and he has admitted his sins. He has confessed his shameful actions, but I don't recall him providing any restitution to his victims. This was NOT a victimless crime and his victims are due restitution. That's where his second chance should begin. A simple mea culpa just doesn't work for this kind of criminal.

[Tabe]

...and many people were ripped off for thousands by Mastro and aren't very happy.

Second chances are for the errors of youth. For adults of Theotakis' age, fraudulently shilling auctions and robbing tens of thousands of dollars was an act of crass greed. He knew that he was willfully and willingly cheating. He profited and he has admitted his sins. He has confessed his shameful actions, but I don't recall him providing any restitution to his victims. This was NOT a victimless crime and his victims are due restitution. That's where his second chance should begin. A simple mea culpa just doesn't work for this kind of criminal.

Yeah, color me baffled at those who seemingly don't care that Heritage has hired a convicted auction fraud. That just makes no sense to me. This isn't getting busted with a dime bag when you're in high school. It's consciously, willfully committing fraud against hundreds, or thousands, of people over an extended period of time. That's not "a mistake" and you shouldn't even be considered for a second chance in the industry, let alone actually GET one.

[ALR-bishop]

Send Ivy a link to the thread to let him know the sand pile is growing 🙂

[REDSOX42]

I will put in a good word for Theo. Personally I think he is the epitome of good people can make bad mistakes. I have made bad ones before too and am thankful for a second chance.

Leon,

I agree with you on your support for Mark...well stated.
You don't just talk-the-talk, but you also walk-the-walk.

Regards,
Paul

[Peter_Spaeth]

I ask this out of genuine interest not to confront. For those of you who support Heritage's decision, would you equally support a decision by a major auction house to hire Bill? And if not, what's the difference?

[mantlefan]

Leon,

I agree with you on your support for Mark...well stated.
You don't just talk-the-talk, but you also walk-the-walk.

Regards,
Paul

Deciding to go to work every day and cheat people for years isn't a bad mistake. It's a career criminal plying his trade.

[ruth-gehrig]

Recap
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/former-mastro-auctions-employee-sentenced/

[Tabe]

From 2007-2009 alone, investigators believe Mastro, Allen and Theotikos drove up bids on items by nearly $1 million.

Yep, just "a mistake". A multi-year escapade that ripped off people to the tune of over $1,000,000. Just "a mistake". SMH.

[irv]

When I first started reading this thread, I agreed with most that everyone deserves a second chance but the more opinions I read and the more I learned about the man the more I changed my thoughts on this.

Currently I am still on the fence, with a slight tilt to the left, saying no way should he have been hired back into the hobby but I also think if he is being used for his expertise (If he has some?) and providing consultation trying to help clean up the hobby by identifying fraudulent cards and memorabilia, then I am not so sure that is a bad thing.

Someone mentioned in this thread, Frank Abagnale. (Catch me if you can) If I am not mistaken, he was hired as a consultant and has likely helped the U.S. Gov't/FBI/CIA, etc, by identifying same/similar frauds/scams and the like that he once used saving the American people/Gov't millions of dollars?

If this is the case, then I must admit I am all for it, but if he is doing none of this, then no way do I agree with this hiring based on what I have read about the man and how many people, over the years, he has ripped off.

Frank Abagnale:
Legitimate jobs
In 1974, after he had served less than five years of his 12-year sentence at Federal Correctional Institution in Petersburg, Virginia, the United States federal government released him on the condition that he help the federal authorities, without pay, to investigate crimes committed by fraud and scam artists, and sign in once a week.[21] Unwilling to return to his family in New York, he left the choice of parole up to the court and it was decided that he would be paroled in Texas.

After his release, Abagnale tried numerous jobs, including cook, grocer, and movie projectionist, but he was fired from most of these after it was discovered he had been hired without revealing his criminal past. Finding these jobs unsatisfying, he approached a bank with an offer. He explained to the bank what he had done and offered to speak to the bank's staff and show them various tricks that "paperhangers" use to defraud banks. His offer included the condition that if they did not find his speech helpful, they would owe him nothing; otherwise, they would owe him only $500 with an agreement that they would provide his name to other banks.[22] With that, he began a legitimate life as a security consultant.[23]

He later founded Abagnale & Associates, based in Tulsa, Oklahoma,[23] which advises companies on fraud issues. Abagnale also continues to advise the FBI, with whom he has associated for over 40 years, by teaching at the FBI Academy and lecturing for FBI field offices throughout the country. According to his website, more than 14,000 institutions have adopted Abagnale's fraud prevention programs.[24]

Abagnale testified before the US Senate in November 2012 about the vulnerabilities of senior citizens to fraud, particularly stressing the ubiquitous use of Social Security numbers for identification included on Medicare cards.[25][26][27]

[Leon]

I ask this out of genuine interest not to confront. For those of you who support Heritage's decision, would you equally support a decision by a major auction house to hire Bill? And if not, what's the difference?

No, I would not support a decision to hire Bill or Doug. Different crimes committed, or at least severity. And as you well know, that is why the sentencing guidelines were different.

But yes, answering any question why there is support for someone who did what Mark did, is setting oneself up for disaster. That is why there are crickets. I know all 3 of them, I would only support Mark being hired....not that my support matters or not. I think Mark was lead down a bad path and don't think he will do it again. That is my opinion. I am not saying he didn't know what he was doing when he did it. He did and paid for it.

[Jenx34]

When I first started reading this thread, I agreed with most that everyone deserves a second chance but the more opinions I read and the more I learned about the man the more I changed my thoughts on this.

Currently I am still on the fence, with a slight tilt to the left, saying no way should he have been hired back into the hobby but I also think if he is being used for his expertise (If he has some?) and providing consultation trying to help clean up the hobby by identifying fraudulent cards and memorabilia, then I am not so sure that is a bad thing.

Someone mentioned in this thread, Frank Abagnale. (Catch me if you can) If I am not mistaken, he was hired as a consultant and has likely helped the U.S. Gov't/FBI/CIA, etc, by identifying same/similar frauds/scams and the like that he once used saving the American people/Gov't millions of dollars?

If this is the case, then I must admit I am all for it, but if he is doing none of this, then no way do I agree with this hiring based on what I have read about the man and how many people, over the years, he has ripped off.

Frank Abagnale:
Legitimate jobs
In 1974, after he had served less than five years of his 12-year sentence at Federal Correctional Institution in Petersburg, Virginia, the United States federal government released him on the condition that he help the federal authorities, without pay, to investigate crimes committed by fraud and scam artists, and sign in once a week.[21] Unwilling to return to his family in New York, he left the choice of parole up to the court and it was decided that he would be paroled in Texas.

After his release, Abagnale tried numerous jobs, including cook, grocer, and movie projectionist, but he was fired from most of these after it was discovered he had been hired without revealing his criminal past. Finding these jobs unsatisfying, he approached a bank with an offer. He explained to the bank what he had done and offered to speak to the bank's staff and show them various tricks that "paperhangers" use to defraud banks. His offer included the condition that if they did not find his speech helpful, they would owe him nothing; otherwise, they would owe him only $500 with an agreement that they would provide his name to other banks.[22] With that, he began a legitimate life as a security consultant.[23]

He later founded Abagnale & Associates, based in Tulsa, Oklahoma,[23] which advises companies on fraud issues. Abagnale also continues to advise the FBI, with whom he has associated for over 40 years, by teaching at the FBI Academy and lecturing for FBI field offices throughout the country. According to his website, more than 14,000 institutions have adopted Abagnale's fraud prevention programs.[24]

Abagnale testified before the US Senate in November 2012 about the vulnerabilities of senior citizens to fraud, particularly stressing the ubiquitous use of Social Security numbers for identification included on Medicare cards.[25][26][27]

I don't know what his role is with Heritage, but Abagnale's is not a good comparison regardless. Abagnale never went to work for a bank where he had access to anything, he was merely a consultant teaching banks to avoid fraud, just as he was doing with the Federal Government.

A proper comparison would be if Mark Theotkis (sp?) would consult with all auction houses that want to pay him to help them prevent fraud, identify counterfeit items, etc.

[mantlefan]

I don't know what his role is with Heritage, but Abagnale's is not a good comparison regardless. Abagnale never went to work for a bank where he had access to anything, he was merely a consultant teaching banks to avoid fraud, just as he was doing with the Federal Government.

A proper comparison would be if Mark Theotkis (sp?) would consult with all auction houses that want to pay him to help them prevent fraud, identify counterfeit items, etc.

Excellent point, Chris. Frank A. worked to prevent future crimes. Theotakis is not contributing anything to society.

[jerrys]

Mastro Auctions drove up auction bids by a shill bidding scheme on auction items from 2002 to 2009. Only the records from 2007 to 2009 have been recovered and documented by Government agencies. The earlier bidding records from 2002 to 2007 were destroyed. Victim loss during just that period was stated at $1,976,303.00. Mastro paid a $250,000 government fine and served a total 20 month sentence at federal prison camp at Pekin, Il., combined with a half-way house - released in May 2017. No penalty for destroying records. No restitution. The loot remains in the hands of the offender. Crime pays.
Mark Theotikos was released June 2017 from federal camp in Marion, Il.
Doug Allen release date is June, 2019 from federal camp at Perkin, Il.
These were the executives that orchestrated the seven-year fraudulent scheme - some employees had non-prison penalties.
However, there were many non-Mastro associates joined in the fraud by forming active consignor/shill bidder partnerships to participate in the bid boosting scams. These partners have significantly enriched themselves while evading exposure or penalty. Their victims are left without restitutions also.

[chalupacollects]

With no skin in this game the need to chime in hits. Frank Abagnale (whom I have met) turned his life around for the better.

This fellow Mark who I don't know may be on that path also but maybe should show some good faith in offering to make some sort of restitution, otherwise there does not seem to be a reason to grant any trust. If he is sincere about being good for the hobby he should publicly commit to offering up some sort of restitution plan to at least make an effort.

If it cannot be determined who of the victims should get said restitution then maybe publicly donate it to a hobby voted on charity...

Tim Hunt

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The fact that none of the "big three" have cooperated in trying to get the justice system the whole picture (destroyed records, names of other participants and/or victims) to me speaks volumes, as does a lack of even token restitution.

[egbeachley]

Only the records from 2007 to 2009 have been recovered and documented by Government agencies. The earlier bidding records from 2002 to 2007 were destroyed. Victim loss during just that period was stated at $1,976,303.00.

If I recall correctly, the way the victim loss amount was calculated was ridiculous. They considered one shill bid made at $50 towards an item that eventually sold for $5,000 as being a loss to victims of $5,000.

Not defending, just pointing it out.

[ajg]

When the book or movies is written it should be called "The Big Shill"

[Yoda]

I would have to believe that the public shame, embarrassment and ruined reputations must be much worse than the prison time served by these three.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would have to believe that the public shame, embarrassment and ruined reputations must be much worse than the prison time served by these three.

Seriously? I would imagine there are few things in life worse than incarceration, even in minimum security facilities.

[Yoda]

Yeah, but when you get out you have to face the reality of what your future is going to look like, the shunning by people you thought were friends, limited employment chances since you are now a felon, the shame put on your family by association, probably too much time on your hands, etc. I think Mark is very lucky to be offered a second chance by Heritage, particularly rejoining the same industry where he got up to his nefarious activities. I have never been inside, fortunately, but have to think the monotony of minimum security prison life can provide some kind rough comfort.

[Kenny Cole]

It is hard for me to feel much, if any, sympathy for someone who is getting shunned by people who he thought were his friends because he CHEATED them. He's probably lucky they aren't trying to figure out a way to sue his sorry ass off and make his life even more miserable. He made his choices and now he gets to reap what he sowed. Not one tear being shed here.

[bnorth]

Seriously? I would imagine there are few things in life worse than incarceration, even in minimum security facilities.

Mr Spaeth you have lived a sheltered life.:)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I would have to believe that the public shame, embarrassment and ruined reputations must be much worse than the prison time served by these three.

I would agree to a point, but if you' are getting out of prison and immediately being hired by a leader in the very industry in which you committed your crime, where's the shame, embarrassment and ruined reputation?

[jerrys]

The document I referred to was not meant for the public but for the FBI report. The FBI have difference criteria for evidence that is applied which enables them to prove a dollar loss amount to set a sentencing for a crime. Their files must be 100% complete and accurate, not up for interpretation and favorable to the defendant. Yes Eric the actual dollar amount is much higher than stated. And again, this only is for the period 2007 to 2009.

My point of the post was that non-Mastro employee consignors of lots in those auctions found a partner to shill bid his/her lots. These partners are just as guilty of fraud as the Mastro family but have escaped exposure or penalty.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mr Spaeth you have lived a sheltered life.:)

Well my statement was perhaps hyperbolic but then again I was responding to a post saying being embarrassed publicly was worse than being jailed.

[egbeachley]

The document I referred to was not meant for the public but for the FBI report. The FBI have difference criteria for evidence that is applied which enables them to prove a dollar loss amount to set a sentencing for a crime. Their files must be 100% complete and accurate, not up for interpretation and favorable to the defendant. Yes Eric the actual dollar amount is much higher than stated. And again, this only is for the period 2007 to 2009.

My point of the post was that non-Mastro employee consignors of lots in those auctions found a partner to shill bid his/her lots. These partners are just as guilty of fraud as the Mastro family but have escaped exposure or penalty.

I have seen some of the governments calculations on the Exhibits and they are not only incorrect,they are blatantly stupid. Far from 100% accurate as you imagine.

A couple shill bids placed for $100 each at an early level with frequent bidding, and then a final shill of $500 placed when the price was 5x higher, was calculated as a $700 loss when the first 2 bids clearly had no effect. But even worse calculation was when a single shill was placed early and the item sold for much higher, they said the loss was the full amount paid. I believe one item that sold for $4,800 was identified as a $4,500 loss to the victim.

I’m not trying to minimize the crime, and certainly the missing years are important, but mis-stating the numbers raises doubt. They didn’t need to inflate them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not at all to defend, but just on the question of dollar loss, in any given case I would think it's difficult to truly know the effect of the shill bids, because unless they were placed at the very end, you don't know what the course of legitimate bidding would have been but for the shills. Just by way of example, suppose the high bidder wins for 1000, but if you take out the shills his bid would have been 800. You can't really say that's a loss of 200, because if the high bid had showed at 800, not 1000, someone else might have bid 900.

Indeed, the government did not pursue restitution, perhaps because of difficulties of calculation.

[egbeachley]

And, I might add, as was pointed out to me in a PM, even a solitary shill bid placed to raise the price to the “hidden” maximum bid assumes that there is a loss to the victim 100% of the time when in some instances someone else may have stepped in with a legitimate bid. No modeling percentages were taken into consideration.

[Kenny Cole]

Not at all to defend, but just on the question of dollar loss, in any given case I would think it's difficult to truly know the effect of the shill bids, because unless they were placed at the very end, you don't know what the course of legitimate bidding would have been but for the shills. Just by way of example, suppose the high bidder wins for 1000, but if you take out the shills his bid would have been 800. You can't really say that's a loss of 200, because if the high bid had showed at 800, not 1000, someone else might have bid 900.

Indeed, the government did not pursue restitution, perhaps because of difficulties of calculation.

But "someone else" didn't have the opportunity, or the ability, to bid at that level because a fraudulent bid took that ability away. Mastro, et al., created whatever uncertainty exists regarding the number. So, IMO, they get to eat it.

Civilly, that would not not be a defense at all, at least not where I practice. I encounter similar claims pretty frequently. Once the fact of damage is shown, if the defendant's actions created the uncertainty as to the amount, the jury decides what the number is based upon the best evidence available. The "speculation" defense goes away. The bad guys don't get to benefit from the uncertainty they created by their own fraud. I don't know how it works in the criminal arena, but that is an issue -- probably one of the few -- that I have never lost either in state or federal court, in 32 years of practice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe Kenny, I'd have to think about that although my general understanding is that the plaintiff who has the burden of proof has to have a non-speculative damages theory and simply assuming there wouldn't have been any other bids in the but-for world of no shill bids seems awfully speculative to me. In any event, mine was less an observation about the mechanics of an actual trial than an observation that just academically speaking it's not an accurate measure of loss just to take the high bid and remove the shills.

[Kenny Cole]

Peter,

"Viewing this evidence in the light most favorable to the plaintiff, we find that there was substantial evidence reasonably tending to support the jury's verdict. Mr. Musgrove had extensive experience in the travel business and a foundation was properly laid for his testimony relating to the value of Rainbow's good will. Indeed, appellants did not object to Mr. Musgrove's testimony and conceded that he was qualified to express an opinion on the issue of good will. Appellants argue nonetheless that the amount of damages to good will was so uncertain as to be speculative. The rule in Oklahoma, however, is that the prohibition against recovery of damages because the loss is uncertain or too speculative in nature applies to the fact of damages, not to the amount. Martin v. Griffin Television, Inc., 549 P.2d 85, 92 (Okla.1976). “Where it is made to appear that some loss has been suffered, it is proper to let the jury determine what the loss is from the best evidence the nature of the case admits.” Hardesty v. Andro Corporation–Webster Division, 555 P.2d 1030 (Okla.1976). Given the nature of good will, which is an intangible asset dependant upon a business' reputation, it was proper for the district court in this case to submit the question of damages to good will to the jury. See Westric Battery Co. v. Standard Electric Co., Inc., 522 F.2d 986, 987 n. 2 (10th Cir.1975) (“The amount cannot and hence need not be proven with absolute certainty.”). See also Kestenbaum v. Falstaff Brewing Corp., 514 F.2d 690, 698 (5th Cir.1975), cert. denied, 424 U.S. 943, 96 S.Ct. 1412, 47 L.Ed.2d 349 (“The wrongdoer may not complain of inexactness where his actions preclude precise computation to the extent of the injury.”)."

Rainbow Travel Serv., Inc. v. Hilton Hotels Corp., 896 F.2d 1233, 1239–40 (10th Cir. 1990) (emphasis added).

[mantlefan]

Impressive post, Kenny. The Law is a very interesting field and I respect your ability to clarify this issue. Some compensation should have been given to the victims. Lacking that, we have no recourse except to seek out Mr. Theotakis and advise him of our displeasure with his confessed crimes.

[Leon]

Impressive post, Kenny. The Law is a very interesting field and I respect your ability to clarify this issue. Some compensation should have been given to the victims. Lacking that, we have no recourse except to seek out Mr. Theotakis and advise him of our displeasure with his confessed crimes.

Dude, you keep saying you want to meet Theo to tell him off, but you might want to just leave it alone.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Kenny fine but I bet I could find lots of cases citing this or similar principles too and not just in a contract context:

Restatement (Second) of Contracts § 352 (1981) states: “Damages are not recoverable for loss beyond an amount that the evidence permits to be established with reasonable certainty.”

Anyhow, we have strayed I think from the topic. I have no doubt that however calculated a substantial aggregate loss was involved here.

[jerrys]

What is overlooked in the Mastro Auction case is that consignors of lots in those auctions independently took the opportunity to merge with the ongoing fraud by joining with a partner to shill bid their lots. These consignor/shill bidder teams have significantly enriched themselves while evading exposure or penalty.

[mantlefan]

Dude, you keep saying you want to meet Theo to tell him off, but you might want to just leave it alone.

Leon, not sure why you seem to be defending this scumbag. And last time I checked, I don’t need your permission to speak to someone in Cleveland, dude.

If he were out of sight, I would never go looking for him.

But, if he’s sitting at HA accepting consignments, well yeah then me and a few of my buds are going to ask him about the money he stole from us. If someone who admitted cheating you and stealing from you, is prancing around in front of you, Leon, wouldn’t you want a few words with him..... ??

[Leon]

Leon, not sure why you seem to be defending this scumbag. And last time I checked, I don’t need your permission to speak to someone in Cleveland, dude.

If he were out of sight, I would never go looking for him.

But, if he’s sitting at HA accepting consignments, well yeah then me and a few of my buds are going to ask him about the money he stole from us. If someone who admitted cheating you and stealing from you, is prancing around in front of you, Leon, wouldn’t you want a few words with him..... ??

I am not defending what he, or the others, did. It was wrong. I have already told him what I thought as we spoke at the last National. I stated my other thoughts above. Say what you want to, it's America.

[jefferyepayne]

I agree with Leon 100%. Mark did his time and I hope being around the quality guys at Heritage will allow him, over time, the opportunity to repair his reputation.

Except their stated rules allow them to bid on their own auction items.

Would you be happy if a bank teller who stole money was back working at your bank and it was legal for them to steal from you?

There is a nuance in this case that is much different than just giving someone a second chance ...

jeff

[bnorth]

Except their stated rules allow them to bid on their own auction items.

Would you be happy if a bank teller who stole money was back working at your bank and it was legal for them to steal from you?

There is a nuance in this case that is much different than just giving someone a second chance ...

jeff

That is why he makes such a great addition, he has experience.:eek::D

[mantlefan]

I am not defending what he, or the others, did. It was wrong. I have already told him what I thought as we spoke at the last National. I stated my other thoughts above. Say what you want to, it's America.

So, you’re allowed to sit down and talk to him and tell him what you thought, but I can’t? I should “leave it alone”. And 30-40 other victims also don’t have that right? Wait and see dude.

[Leon]

So, you’re allowed to sit down and talk to him and tell him what you thought, but I can’t? I should “leave it alone”. And 30-40 other victims also don’t have that right? Wait and see dude.

As far as I know everyone has a right to do what they want to do.
I had written a different message in the other post then edited it to be nicer. Nice is always good :) "Leave it alone" sounded better than what I had said originally.
That said, I could care less if you speak with Mark or not. I don't need to wait as there is nothing to see. Happy collecting.

[mq711]

Makes me wonder if he wasn't "rewarded" with a job for being a good boy and not naming names as he went to jail.

[Stonepony]

Makes me wonder if he wasn't "rewarded" with a job for being a good boy and not naming names as he went to jail.

That's a pretty strong statement
Probably warrants a full name by your post

[slipk1068]

Makes me wonder if he wasn't "rewarded" with a job for being a good boy and not naming names as he went to jail.

Indeed. I also suspect many of his defenders were involved in shilling their own auctions. It is tough to slam someone who was your partner in crime.

It is also possible that the auction records that went missing were chosen to protect certain people. That would be pretty good leverage to make sure someone doesn't testify against you or speak negatively of you. It would be amazing to see those missing auction records.

[Leon]

Indeed. I also suspect many of his defenders were involved in shilling their own auctions. It is tough to slam someone who was your partner in crime.

It is also possible that the auction records that went missing were chosen to protect certain people. That would be pretty good leverage to make sure someone doesn't testify against you or speak negatively of you. It would be amazing to see those missing auction records.

How about starting your post with "once upon a time?"
I for one wasn't involved in anything except getting ripped off too, so the facts show (of which were recovered of course). Back then I didn't sell much at all.
Maybe those missing records would show your involvement? Who knows but to say people shilled because they have an opinion is quite speculative at best. I know I didn't shill...

ps..>Dave B., above, got ya' covered.

[mantlefan]

I’m so very happy you didn’t lose a dime, Leon. But I did, so your admonition to “leave it alone” is all the more inappropriate.

[Leon]

I’m so very happy you didn’t lose a dime, Leon. But I did, so your admonition to “leave it alone” is all the more inappropriate.

Apparently you either can't read or can't comprehend the American language? Who said I didn't lose a dime? I was shilled at least 3x according to the report. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you stick your foot in your mouth again?

[jerrys]

$1200 is much more than a dime. D381, E137 and SF Seals are more expensive than one would think.

Eric - You are right - I've listened to others stating that there were errors made. But I do not imagine 100% accuracy, it is rather their stated goal.

The case of fouled up calculations of shill bids is foreign to me. Where are these facts posted?

[mantlefan]

I stand corrected. You said “I wasn’t involved.....except for getting ripped off”. My bad. I only saw the first part. I apologize.
I’m having Surgery on Monday to remove my foot from my mouth. When you had that surgery, did it hurt?


Your bad: telling me to stand down when you already sought him out in Chicago and addressed your concerns with him. Sometimes silence is golden.

[calvindog]

Huge amount of misinformation in this thread about the Mastro case, the participants in the fraud, restitution, etc. The stated amount of loss was a fraction of what truly occurred due in part to very conservative calculations by the feds and the fact that Mastro destroyed so many years of records -- solely to hide their crimes.

Here's two things you all need to read:

Mastro shill bidding list: http://haulsofshame.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Mastro-shill-bid-list.pdf

Mastro, et al. indictment: https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/iln/chicago/2012/pr0725_01a.pdf

[Leon]

I seemed to have missed your name on the victim impact list Jeff posted? I guess it was in those records that got destroyed? You remind me of a chihuahua LOL .... a NY one!!

I stand corrected. You said “I wasn’t involved.....except for getting ripped off”. My bad. I only saw the first part. I apologize.
I’m having Surgery on Monday to remove my foot from my mouth. When you had that surgery, did it hurt?


Your bad: telling me to stand down when you already sought him out in Chicago and addressed your concerns with him. Sometimes silence is golden.

[ruth-gehrig]

Thanks Jeff for posting the shill bidding list. Definitely some names there I missed the first time I remember reading through it. Wow!

[mantlefan]

Leon, I was bidding with Mastro from day one. I finally wised up and yes I’m not down in Jeff’s list. Hell I remember working with Ron Oser.

Yeah a NY chihuahua has no chance against you dude...a Texas junkyard dog.

[Dewey29]

I would like to start with a full disclosure by stating that I joined this board today with the sole purpose of posting a response to comments in this thread. I have known Mark personally and professionally for more than 30 years and I had a couple purchases with Mastro but don’t believe I was defrauded in any way. I also happily wrote a letter to the judge prior to Mark’s sentencing. My letter in short said Mark is not a bad person. He is a good person that made a bad decision (or decisions). I will follow up on that in a moment.

The first question that I must ask the board is how many of you actually read the full court documents including the sentencing hearing? I’m not calling anyone out, just asking as I imagine some (not all) posting on here have not. Reading those documents can make you very happy you’re not an attorney, but without reading them you may not have all the facts.

There was a poster on this thread that raised the issue of hiring Mark and compared him to Bill Mastro. That is like comparing apples and oranges as evidenced by the U. S. Attorney Zachary Fardon who admitted Mark was largely following the orders of his bosses rather than orchestrating the scheme. He said Mark “opted to take a hands-on role to promote shill bidding, rather than demand change or at least leave the company and find a new position.”

Before anyone reacts, Mark was guilty of committng a crime. He confessed to that and there is no disputing that. However, there is a major difference between being the head of an organization that comes up with a scheme to defraud and a subordinate that is following orders/instructions. Certainly still illegal, but very very different IMO.

For anyone that believes Mark made a fortune through this crime, I have attached a link below to an article which states “from 2002 to 2008, Theotikos worked for Mastro, where he participated in auction operations at a salary of about $100,000 per year.” Now $100k is a solid salary, but how many of you would go through what he has for a $100k salary for 6 years? The reality here is Mark was put in a bad spot by Mr. Mastro and/or Mr. Allen. Mark should have made the decision to leave the company and find new employment. He chose to stay and through that decision committed a crime for which he has paid severely (and everyone on here is entitled to their own opinion on the severity).

For anyone that feels like he hasn't been punished enough let me pose a question. How many of you would be willing to up and quit your job if your current boss asked you to do something you thought was illegal or immoral? It’s easy to cast stones, but when you’re in that situation and the sole earner while raising a family it’s not an easy decision. Some may say, he should have gone to another auction house. That’s a fair statement. How many other auction houses are there in Chicago? I don’t believe there are any. So let me ask the question again in a different way. How many of you would quit your job and relocate your entire family to another state because you thought what your boss was asking you to do was illegal or immoral? If you’re boss is telling you to do you’re not the bad guy right? Besides if you speak up and criticize your boss your the troublemake that isn’t a team player. That will really help you with getting your next job. Right? It’s a very very tough thing to do and I would bet if people are being honest with themselves, most would stay and begrudgingly do what they were asked to do.

To recap, Mark did commit a crime and was convicted of that crime. He has served his sentence and paid a steep price for his actions. I’m not making any excuses for him. However, I stand by my letter to the judge. Mark is a good man that made a bad decision. Anyone that thinks Mark would ever make the same mistake again has simply never met Mark.

Thanks for allowing me to post here and I hope I didn’t offend too many people as that’s not my intent. Those that have been wronged by Mastronet are certainly well within their rights to be upset. Having good knowledge of what really transpired leads me to believe their anger may be misplaced which is why I wanted to make this post.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/former-mastro-auctions-employee-sentenced/

[Stonepony]

Well just a couple comments to the above post.
1) The " good guy who made bad decisions" and " just following orders " arguments hold NO water with me with regard to guilt.
2) If my boss asked me to do something illegal or immoral- hell
yes I would move on
3) I have made my share of bad decisions/ choices during my lifetime.

[irv]

You make some valid points, and it's too bad he was in the position/career he was in, but that does not dissolve what he knowingly did.

He paid the price for his decision not to out them, which, I'm sure, if he had to do it all over again, he would, but sometimes we have to do the right things from the get go, especially if one is smart enough to reasonably know or recognize, that what they were doing would one day all come crashing down on them.



v=1EQQYeRAT3ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EQQYeRAT3o

[timn1]

Sorry, this is well-intentioned BS. I can easily imagine that Mark found himself in an unpleasant dilemma when Mastro and Allen asked him to facilitate the shilling. But you have already acknowledged that he made the wrong decision. The rest is irrelevant to the main point people are making in this thread. If people here were arguing that Mark should be locked up for life, you would have a valid point. He did his time and should be allowed to pick up his life and move on - BUT NOT HANDED A PLUM JOB IN THE SAME INDUSTRY/HOBBY HE HELPED TO DEFRAUD.

IMO, that is the only point that matters. Let him be hired in any other field, and I am fine with that. But to quote Marsellus Wallace, to me he has "lost his BB card privileges."

[Jenx34]

Sorry, this is well-intentioned BS. I can easily imagine that Mark found himself in an unpleasant dilemma when Mastro and Allen asked him to facilitate the shilling. But you have already acknowledged that he made the wrong decision. The rest is irrelevant to the main point people are making in this thread. If people here were arguing that Mark should be locked up for life, you would have a valid point. He did his time and should be allowed to pick up his life and move on - BUT NOT HANDED A PLUM JOB IN THE SAME INDUSTRY/HOBBY HE HELPED TO DEFRAUD.

IMO, that is the only point that matters. Let him be hired in any other field, and I am fine with that. But to quote Marsellus Wallace, to me he has "lost his BB card privileges."

I agree and you beat me to it. As I was reading the post, that's all I could think about. NONE of the rest matters at this point except the argument/discussion of whether he should be employed in the collectibles auction business. My opinion is no. That doesn't mean he can't work elsewhere.

[Mdmtx]

I am confused. The attached picture is from the Heritage terms and conditions, which every bidder has agreed to. Can someone explain the difference in this and the illegal shill bids of mastro? Is it merely the location? Or is there an inherent difference in the 2?

Mark Medlin

[egbeachley]

Start with bidding with the intent to win and having to pay for the item if you do win vs bidding with the knowledge you won’t end up winning but can raise the price.

[Stonepony]

I am confused. The attached picture is from the Heritage terms and conditions, which every bidder has agreed to. Can someone explain the difference in this and the illegal shill bids of mastro? Is it merely the location? Or is there an inherent difference in the 2?

Mark Medlin

In Texas, its legal for an auction house and its employees to bid on the items in their auction. Crazy but true. I've asked before.... if they win the item do they pay a 20% buyers premium... to themselves?

[Fred]

Holy crap.... this is for real. It's in the 12 page PDF (terms and conditions of auction) that is buried on the website. At first I thought it was some kind of joke. Perhaps a new thread needs to be opened on this topic.

I'm trying to figure out what a reasonable explanation could be but I can't.


21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots. Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates. The Auctioneer may extend advances, guarantees, or loans to certain consignors.

What does that mean? "Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates.

[ajg]

I agree 1000% with Dewey's post.

[Orioles1954]

I agree 1000% with Dewey's post.

I saw what you did there :)

[Stonepony]

I agree 1000% with Dewey's post.

I saw what you did there :)

Haha, I guess he decided to just get to the point:rolleyes:

[Peter_Spaeth]

Haha, I guess he decided to just get to the point:rolleyes:

Avoiding having his name come out, perhaps.

[Stonepony]

Pretty sure if you reference Attila the Hun you have to put your name to it, correct.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Pretty sure if your reference Attila the Hun you have to put your name to it, correct.

Especially if you badmouth him.

[barrysloate]

Attila was pretty much my all-time favorite Hun.

[Stonepony]

Attila was pretty much my all-time favorite Hun.

Oh he was def "the" Hun!

[Leon]

I agree 1000% with Dewey's post.

Then please put your full name next to your post per the rules, just as is under Dewey's id. Thanks.

[Fred]

Attila was pretty much my all-time favorite Hun.

Barry, I couldn't think of another Hun. I'm going to bet not many people can name another Hun without Googling it? Yup, I guess that makes Attila, most everyone's favorite Hun....:p

[barrysloate]

Barry, I couldn't think of another Hun. I'm going to bet not many people can name another Hun without Googling it? Yup, I guess that makes Attila, most everyone's favorite Hun....:p

I don't even really know what a Hun is, but I think if I met one, we would get along just fine.

[BeanTown]

Here is a Hun I found when I googled it... Hi Barry 😊

[barrysloate]

Lord have mercy... that was one of Wonka's creations, I think.

[oldjudge]

“I’m in love, I’m in love
With Attila the Hun
Attila the Hun, Attila the Hun
Though he’ll pillage a village and kill everyone
I still love Attila the Hun”

Tom Lehrer

[Peter_Spaeth]

My favorite is the Vatican Rag, pure genius. Such gems as

2 4 6 8
Time to transubstantiate

Ave Maria
Gee it's good to see ya

Do whatever steps you want if
You have cleared them with the Pontiff

[oldjudge]

Mine are "We Will All Go Together When We Go" and Poisoning Pigeons in the Park"

[oldjudge]

Spring is here, a-suh-puh-ring is here.
Life is skittles and life is beer.
I think the loveliest time of the year is the spring.
I do, don't you? 'course you do.
But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me,
And makes ev'ry sunday a treat for me.

All the world seems in tune
On a spring afternoon,
When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.
Ev'ry sunday you'll see
My sweetheart and me,
As we poison the pigeons in the park.

When they see us coming, the birdies all try an' hide,
But they still go for peanuts when coated with cyanide.
The sun's shining bright,
Ev'rything seems all right,
When we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

Lalaalaalalaladoodiedieedoodoodoo

We've gained notoriety,
And caused much anxiety
In the audubon society
With our games.
They call it impiety,
And lack of propriety,
And quite a variety
Of unpleasant names.
But it's not against any religion
To want to dispose of a pigeon.

So if sunday you're free,
Why don't you come with me,
And we'll poison the pigeons in the park.
And maybe we'll do
In a squirrel or two,
While we're poisoning pigeons in the park.

We'll murder them all amid laughter and merriment.
Except for the few we take home to experiment.
My pulse will be quickenin'
With each drop of strychnine
We feed to a pigeon.
It just takes a smidgin!
To poison a pigeon in the park.

[ValKehl]

Holy crap.... this is for real. It's in the 12 page PDF (terms and conditions of auction) that is buried on the website. At first I thought it was some kind of joke. Perhaps a new thread needs to be opened on this topic.

I'm trying to figure out what a reasonable explanation could be but I can't.


21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots. Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates. The Auctioneer may extend advances, guarantees, or loans to certain consignors.

What does that mean? "Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates.


Fred, you probably now realize why there are some collectors who won't bid in Heritage's auctions

[mantlefan]

Val is spot on. Those hinky rules have been on their site for years. Caveat Emptor!

AH is basically telling us that if an item is going for a bargain price, they will run it up. MT is their perfect hire. They already have an office ready for Doug Allen when he is released.

[Tabe]

Before anyone reacts, Mark was guilty of committng a crime. He confessed to that and there is no disputing that. However, there is a major difference between being the head of an organization that comes up with a scheme to defraud and a subordinate that is following orders/instructions. Certainly still illegal, but very very different IMO.
The Nuremberg Defense. Awesome.

There's also a big difference between "making a mistake" and doing the same illegal behavior over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...you get the point.

It's an absolute joke he got another job with an auction house and an even bigger joke that people on here are defending that.

[hcv123]

No, I would not support a decision to hire Bill or Doug. Different crimes committed, or at least severity. And as you well know, that is why the sentencing guidelines were different.

But yes, answering any question why there is support for someone who did what Mark did, is setting oneself up for disaster. That is why there are crickets. I know all 3 of them, I would only support Mark being hired....not that my support matters or not. I think Mark was lead down a bad path and don't think he will do it again. That is my opinion. I am not saying he didn't know what he was doing when he did it. He did and paid for it.

My mom used to say " if your friends jump off the Brooklyn bridge are you going to jump too?" In response to my telling her I did the wrong thing because my friends were doing it. It drives home the point that our integrity is our own to be in or out of alignment with based on decisions we alone make.

There are moments in life where we are faced with decisions to violate or stay aligned with our integrity. If Mark is as "good" a guy as some say - he fell flat on his face with this one. He has been accountable (questionable as to if that was of his own accord or forced because he was caught), but as mentioned earlier - has he made restitution to those he harmed? Did he receive financial rewards for his actions? Did he share as much of the story as he knew with those prosecuting the case to help fill in the blanks of the destroyed records?

I am first in line for forgiveness. It is not my place to judge others. Forgiveness also allows me to live with a lighter heart. I have a retail business and people have stolen from me. I have forgiven all of them ( I have not communicated that to some as the forgiveness first and foremost is about my freedom from their actions). I also have not allowed them back into a position where they could steal from me again. I was shilled by Mastro auctions (1time that I caught them in and refused to pay for the lot that the prior night it said I was outbid on). I am sure I was shilled other times as well. I forgive them. I also don't/wouldn't choose to do business with them again when they finish their time.

I don't know mark nor choose to judge him. I pray that he has learned from his mistakes and will find it easier to stay aligned with his integrity. I am uncomfortable that he has a position in an auction house I have bid with recently.

[ruth-gehrig]

Hopefully everyone here has read the available list of shill bidders closely enough to know that Mark isn't the only former Mastro employee who is now at Heritage.

[hcv123]

Hopefully everyone here has read the available list of shill bidders closely enough to know that Mark isn't the only former Mastro employee who is now at Heritage.

I read the list. Who else is on it that is at heritage now?

Who is Jennifer stein? Paired up with Irv Lerner a lot on the list - shilled me at least once on the list!

[Griffins]

I read the list. Who else is on it that is at heritage now?

Who is Jennifer stein? Paired up with Irv Lerner a lot on the list - shilled me at least once on the list!

His hair stylist?

[Yoda]

Here is a Hun I found when I googled it... Hi Barry ��

Barry, I must say you have aged well but the role of Hans Solo was filled years ago, and what does Chewbacca collect? Star Wars cards, I expect. And contrary to rumors Atilla did not sack Rome. That was the job of another Visigoth. Interested Net 54'ers will have to look up the answer. Asking Siri doesn't count. Remember, I taught history at Norman Thomas High on the East Side of Manhattan.

[mq711]

I never bid in a Mastro auction so not a real victim but I still can’t understand why a big, diverse, international auction house would make such a hire. Aren’t they bonded and insured, which should have a negative impact on those cost. Don’t they have any type of mentoring program where they can hire a suitable, non convicted candidate from within?

[ValKehl]

Hopefully everyone here has read the available list of shill bidders closely enough to know that Mark isn't the only former Mastro employee who is now at Heritage.

+1

[jerrys]

I read the list. Who else is on it that is at heritage now?

Who is Jennifer stein? Paired up with Irv Lerner a lot on the list - shilled me at least once on the list!

You mention Irv Lerner/Jennifer Stein partnership shill bid you once - there are about sixty other lots they shill bid that are recorded on that document.

[hcv123]

You mention Irv Lerner/Jennifer Stein partnership shill bid you once - there are about sixty other lots they shill bid that are recorded on that document.

I saw that. I know who Irv Lerner is - wondering who Jennifer stein is. Interesting how they switch rolls - sometimes consignor, sometimes shil bidder.

[timn1]

Irv lerner was a hobby “legend “ but he always struck me as just about the meanest guy who ever lived. I know others felt differently about him but the mastro info is not a great legacy.

Tim

[Peter_Spaeth]

Irv lerner was a hobby “legend “ but he always struck me as just about the meanest guy who ever lived. I know others felt differently about him but the mastro info is not a great legacy.

Tim

Was he the one allegedly selling bad rings or am I thinking of someone else?

[mantlefan]

The Nuremberg Defense. Awesome.

There's also a big difference between "making a mistake" and doing the same illegal behavior over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...you get the point.

It's an absolute joke he got another job with an auction house and an even bigger joke that people on here are defending that.

Ya know when I first started practicing medicine I had very few patients and I earned money to pay all the bills by filling various posts. I did endoscopy procedures on Fridays for a Community Health Center. I was the Chief Medical Officer of the Floral-Park Bellerose Schools. As such I had to attend all the Varsity games. One year, in a playoff game, the team's best player injured his knee. The kid and the coach wanted to keep playing. I took him out of the game. The irate coach told me to play the kid or he'd make sure I wasn't back the next School year. I took the player to the locker room and iced his knee.....I wasn't re-hired.

[hcv123]

Ya know when I first started practicing medicine I had very few patients and I earned money to pay all the bills by filling various posts. I did endoscopy procedures on Fridays for a Community Health Center. I was the Chief Medical Officer of the Floral-Park Bellerose Schools. As such I had to attend all the Varsity games. One year, in a playoff game, the team's best player injured his knee. The kid and the coach wanted to keep playing. I took him out of the game. The irate coach told me to play the kid or he'd make sure I wasn't back the next School year. I took the player to the locker room and iced his knee.....I wasn't re-hired.

The path of integrity is often not the easiest to follow, but always the right one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ya know when I first started practicing medicine I had very few patients and I earned money to pay all the bills by filling various posts. I did endoscopy procedures on Fridays for a Community Health Center. I was the Chief Medical Officer of the Floral-Park Bellerose Schools. As such I had to attend all the Varsity games. One year, in a playoff game, the team's best player injured his knee. The kid and the coach wanted to keep playing. I took him out of the game. The irate coach told me to play the kid or he'd make sure I wasn't back the next School year. I took the player to the locker room and iced his knee.....I wasn't re-hired.

You would have done well as an NFL team doctor.

[1952boyntoncollector]

People should be given second chances in life but not allowed back in the same industry where they committed a crime.

I was shilled by Mastro and I can never forgive anyone who has ripped me off. I worked very hard my whole life to make a living. I am not going to forgive someone who stole money from me.

We should be trying to clean the hobby up. We are not here to give second chances to people who took advantage of us.

I have been a customer of Heritage for several years and now am having second thoughts after hearing who they hired.


There is also the the issue of 'fool me once shame on you....

If someone gets burned by Heritage now due to something caused by Theo, its not like Heritage can claim they didnt know about him when hiring him so I am sure they assessed the risk and find him a good risk. They will be in the line of fire.

Im all for giving people 2nd chances as well especially if they go into trouble as a teenager like someone said in this thread

with that being said, i am into giving people first chances too who may not have an opportunity due to someone being given a second chance...plus the reason the person may be given a second chance is because of unique knowledge and networking that may of partially be gained due to being part of a conspiracy/criminal enterprise. They can be all cleaned up now, but the fact they got all this information puts them ahead of someone trying to get a a first chance. Again i am talking generally.

[autograf]

His hair stylist?

TOUCHE.......or should I say TOUPE?

[timn1]

I don't imagine Mark T. is a teenager.:D

There is also the the issue of 'fool me once shame on you....

If someone gets burned by Heritage now due to something caused by Theo, its not like Heritage can claim they didnt know about him when hiring him so I am sure they assessed the risk and find him a good risk. They will be in the line of fire.

Im all for giving people 2nd chances as well especially if they go into trouble as a teenager like someone said in this thread

with that being said, i am into giving people first chances too who may not have an opportunity due to someone being given a second chance...plus the reason the person may be given a second chance is because of unique knowledge and networking that may of partially be gained due to being part of a conspiracy/criminal enterprise. They can be all cleaned up now, but the fact they got all this information puts them ahead of someone trying to get a a first chance. Again i am talking generally.

[Tabe]

Ya know when I first started practicing medicine I had very few patients and I earned money to pay all the bills by filling various posts. I did endoscopy procedures on Fridays for a Community Health Center. I was the Chief Medical Officer of the Floral-Park Bellerose Schools. As such I had to attend all the Varsity games. One year, in a playoff game, the team's best player injured his knee. The kid and the coach wanted to keep playing. I took him out of the game. The irate coach told me to play the kid or he'd make sure I wasn't back the next School year. I took the player to the locker room and iced his knee.....I wasn't re-hired.
I have been in a position where, like you, I was pressured to do something that violated my integrity in the course of my professional duties. Refusing could potentially cost me my job. I refused. It's not always easy to do the right thing but it IS always the right thing to do the right thing.

[drmondobueno]

When the book or movies is written it should be called "The Big Shill"

I was thinking “Crime Pays”.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I was thinking “Crime Pays”.

you mean white collar crime pays..


easier to steal with a pen versus a gun