Full Disclosure and Public Apology, Regarding T206 Reproductions Sold on Ebay in Feb.

[njdunkin1]

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ed-abbatchio-blue-Sleeves-Uzit-print/112814076406?hash=item1a443e31f6:g:fdsAAOSwyAJag2v k)

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin

[njdunkin1]

Posting story...
-I made a few T206 reproductions as I had in the past and posted them on eBay to make a few bucks, circa February 13th of this year.
-However, this time I made my listings very gray regarding authenticity and provenance of the cards.
-I thought at the time it would be a cool thing to do to perhaps earn a few more bids. I willingly chose to use an alternate account and I since recognize that as deceptive and wrong (changed username for clarification. current name: njdunkin_2, previous name: katie5831)
-The auction went on; I realized the final day that I was going to be out of town and couldn’t ship the cards to the winning bidder(s), so I tried to cancel the auctions in hopes of relisting the auctions later.
-The first two (Magee and Doyle) didn’t have any bids, so those could cancel with no issues.
-In contrast, the Abbatchio and Cobb each had bids, so I couldn’t cancel. Instead of facing up to the buyer and being straightforward, I tried to bid and win my own cards with my purchasing account (username: njdunkin_1). I did not and would not shill my own auctions to earn a higher bid.
-It backfired. Turns out the buyer had a higher bid than both of mine on the cards, causing him to win both.
-I was in trouble, but the buyer did not end up paying. Shamefully, I opened unpaid cases instead of just cancelling the auctions.
-Nothing really happened and I didn't dwell on this until a friend spoke with me via email with righteous rebuke, pointing out the wrong that I had done. Ashamedly, I didn’t think twice about it until his email, and I saw that he was completely right. Through his words, I could see that I had done wrong and needed make reparations with the people involved as best I could (thank you K).
-However, even more to my shame today, I thought I could postpone making things right or even bury my wrongdoing with time.
-Fast forward to joining Tobacco Row on Facebook (this would be very late March, early April); I received an inquiry about this situation. I was so embarrassed, but I was set on trying to make myself look better and cover up my actions. I made up lies and tried to make myself look better by stretching the truth.
-Deservedly, I’m removed from the FB group as members uncover the truth of the story
-Completely ashamed, I didn't sleep well and dwelled on this almost constantly during this past few weeks' time.
-Through the encouragement of a close friend, I sought forgiveness of those whom were directly affected by my actions (M and D on FB, along with the eBay buyer.)
-I made contact with the eBay buyer and called eBay to remove the unpaid item strikes and apologized to him. I committed to sending out his cards and did so last Tuesday (tracking: 9405509699938375223352)
- This opportunity has been orchestrated to humble me, and I'm thankful for that today.


Thank you for reading this, and again, I am so, so sorry for the grief that I’ve caused you. My actions were wrong and I realize what this has done to my fellowship with much, if not all of the T206, FB, + N54 community.

-Noah "NJ" Dunkin

[ullmandds]

what...no "god bless?"

JK

[Rookiemonster]

Didn’t you already apologize for some other shanagians you were up to when you first signed up?

[KingFisk]

Surprising and disappointing. You seem like an earnest young man and this seems very out of character, but I guess that's the problem with only seeing interactions on a message board. Thanks for telling the story and owning up to it, but this is pretty lousy behavior. EDITED TO ADD: Hope it would've been worth the $50 to destroy your reputation amongst what is generally a great group of knowledgeable and helpful collectors.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Batpig]

There's way too much shadiness in all of that to really believe you're sorry for anything other than being caught. Even your effort to make T206 reproductions and sell them as reprints is illegal, regardless if you identify them as reprint or not.

[oldjudge]

Bye Felicia

[Paul S]

I would sometimes make middle-of-the-night phone calls to ex-girlfriends...

[Rookiemonster]

There's way too much shadiness in all of that to really believe you're sorry for anything other than being caught. Even your effort to make T206 reproductions and sell them as reprints is illegal, regardless if you identify them as reprint or not.

I agree ,I use to have a friend when I was young that would screw everyone over in different ways. Then when he gets called out on it he would apologize. It seemed like he was always apologizing and getting accepted back in to the friend
Group. Eventually everyone got sick of the guy and stopped talking to him. He then started to give people money and personal items to try to win there favor. Wasn’t long until the cops got him for some stupid stuff.

[darwinbulldog]

Derivative. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_uEfF7oj1c)

[Batpig]

I agree ,I use to have a friend when I was young that would screw everyone over in different ways. Then when he gets called out on it he would apologize. It seemed like he was always apologizing and getting accepted back in to the friend
Group. Eventually everyone got sick of the guy and stopped talking to him. He then started to give people money and personal items to try to win there favor. Wasn’t long until the cops got him for some stupid stuff.

I had almost exactly the same experience with a "friend". He ended up doing some jail time for selling things on eBay that he didn't actually have.

[barrysloate]

Plus you misspelled Abbaticchio. Add that to your list of transgressions.

[commishbob]

Posting story...
........
buyer had a higher bid than both of mine on the cards, causing him to win both.
-I was in trouble, but the buyer did not end up paying. Shamefully, I opened unpaid cases instead of just cancelling the auctions.........
-Noah "NJ" Dunkin

Am I reading this right? The winning bidder didn't pay for your fake cards and you opened a case on him/her?

That's pretty ballsy.

[Snapolit1]

Am I reading this right? The winning bidder didn't pay for your fake cards and you opened a case on him/her?

That's pretty ballsy.

LOl. Indeed. What balls. How dare you rip me off when I'm trying to rip you off.

[njdunkin1]

Thank you for the responses so far.

I know that my post will affect my communication and connection with many of this board's members, forever. I deserve this fully. For what it's worth, this was most certainly not worth anything that I thought could be gained from my actions.

[oldjudge]

Plus you misspelled Abbaticchio. Add that to your list of transgressions.


and in addition to your other transgressions, Mr Berkowitz, you insist on using dangling participles

[david_l]

Wow. Maybe now would be a good time to take a hiatus and try to reset your moral compass a bit.

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ed-abbatchio-blue-Sleeves-Uzit-print/112814076406?hash=item1a443e31f6:g:fdsAAOSwyAJag2v k)

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin



Posting story...
-I made a few T206 reproductions as I had in the past and posted them on eBay to make a few bucks, circa February 13th of this year.
-However, this time I made my listings very gray regarding authenticity and provenance of the cards.
-I thought at the time it would be a cool thing to do to perhaps earn a few more bids. I willingly chose to use an alternate account and I since recognize that as deceptive and wrong (changed username for clarification. current name: njdunkin_2, previous name: katie5831)
-The auction went on; I realized the final day that I was going to be out of town and couldn’t ship the cards to the winning bidder(s), so I tried to cancel the auctions in hopes of relisting the auctions later.
-The first two (Magee and Doyle) didn’t have any bids, so those could cancel with no issues.
-In contrast, the Abbatchio and Cobb each had bids, so I couldn’t cancel. Instead of facing up to the buyer and being straightforward, I tried to bid and win my own cards with my purchasing account (username: njdunkin_1). I did not and would not shill my own auctions to earn a higher bid.
-It backfired. Turns out the buyer had a higher bid than both of mine on the cards, causing him to win both.
-I was in trouble, but the buyer did not end up paying. Shamefully, I opened unpaid cases instead of just cancelling the auctions.
-Nothing really happened and I didn't dwell on this until a friend spoke with me via email with righteous rebuke, pointing out the wrong that I had done. Ashamedly, I didn’t think twice about it until his email, and I saw that he was completely right. Through his words, I could see that I had done wrong and needed make reparations with the people involved as best I could (thank you K).
-However, even more to my shame today, I thought I could postpone making things right or even bury my wrongdoing with time.
-Fast forward to joining Tobacco Row on Facebook (this would be very late March, early April); I received an inquiry about this situation. I was so embarrassed, but I was set on trying to make myself look better and cover up my actions. I made up lies and tried to make myself look better by stretching the truth.
-Deservedly, I’m removed from the FB group as members uncover the truth of the story
-Completely ashamed, I didn't sleep well and dwelled on this almost constantly during this past few weeks' time.
-Through the encouragement of a close friend, I sought forgiveness of those whom were directly affected by my actions (M and D on FB, along with the eBay buyer.)
-I made contact with the eBay buyer and called eBay to remove the unpaid item strikes and apologized to him. I committed to sending out his cards and did so last Tuesday (tracking: 9405509699938375223352)
- This opportunity has been orchestrated to humble me, and I'm thankful for that today.


Thank you for reading this, and again, I am so, so sorry for the grief that I’ve caused you. My actions were wrong and I realize what this has done to my fellowship with much, if not all of the T206, FB, + N54 community.

-Noah "NJ" Dunkin

[7nohitter]

Gotta say, truly disappointing reading this. I remember when you first joined the board and the genuine excitement you seemed to have in both learning from and being a part of this community.

Yes, you eventually came clean, but only after some pure shadiness. Learn from this and move on, but remember that while many WILL forgive, they will NOT forget.

[KMayUSA6060]

... And it's 1... 2... 3 strikes you're out at the old, ball game!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Gotta say, truly disappointing reading this. I remember when you first joined the board and the genuine excitement you seemed to have in both learning from and being a part of this community.

Yes, you eventually came clean, but only after some pure shadiness. Learn from this and move on, but remember that while many WILL forgive, they will NOT forget.

+1. This is a hobby. It is supposed to be fun.

[griffon512]

i believe you skipped chapter 1 in the "How to Commit Fraud for Dummies" handbook. it's titled, "When Committing Fraud, Don't Use Your Real Name." maybe you didn't...

i agree with the other posters who said the series of things you are ashamed about are over too long a time span, and happened too repeatedly, to feel truly contrite. you kinda conned some people out of a small amount of money, but the buyers of those cards might have been buying with the intent of conning someone else.

if you are sincere about your misgivings you have the choice whether to try and not repeat your actions in the future...same as all the rest of us who are human.

[jb217676]

Man, I don't know if you can ever come back from this one. Printing off rare back T206 cards from your printer and selling them on ebay is worse than the T206 buyback scam exposed here a while back... at least the buyer that was getting scammed was getting a real card. Your printed T206 cards are ludicrous.
Jeff

[Gradedcardman]

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ed-abbatchio-blue-Sleeves-Uzit-print/112814076406?hash=item1a443e31f6:g:fdsAAOSwyAJag2v k)

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin

By clicking the link only I see the words reproduction. I would see that as a buyer, not knowing T206, as a flag to not bid/buy. That's what I look for. Unless you added the reproduction part of the description later/after the auction began then I don't see much to complain about. Again I have not read everything because I have had great dealings with NJ and saw the disclaimer of "reproduction".

[Peter_Spaeth]

found a few t cards, this one is a nice uzit. tough to find




placed next to an authentic waddell in 3rd image. you decide.





selling as reproduction per ebay.


This suggests he found the card not made it. And it suggests he is only selling it as a repro because ebay makes him but he isn't sure, "You decide."

BS.

[Peter_Spaeth]

... And it's 1... 2... 3 strikes you're out at the old, ball game!

Very well done. Or, to use the internet acronym, AMF.

[pokerplyr80]

Wow. Maybe now would be a good time to take a hiatus and try to reset your moral compass a bit.

I'd suggest a permanent hiatus from this boand. Scammers like you are not needed here. It's bad enough we have to deal with them in the hobby.

[Mdmtx]

By clicking the link only I see the words reproduction. I would see that as a buyer, not knowing T206, as a flag to not bid/buy. That's what I look for. Unless you added the reproduction part of the description later/after the auction began then I don't see much to complain about. Again I have not read everything because I have had great dealings with NJ and saw the disclaimer of "reproduction".

Here is his admission from post #2 on this thread:

However, this time I made my listings very gray regarding authenticity and provenance of the cards.

That is pretty clear. He also said this:

-In contrast, the Abbatchio and Cobb each had bids, so I couldn’t cancel. Instead of facing up to the buyer and being straightforward, I tried to bid and win my own cards with my purchasing account (username: njdunkin_1). I did not and would not shill my own auctions to earn a higher bid.

He says he wouldn’t shill, but I believe his actions are shilling.


Mark Medlin

[joshuanip]

I'd suggest a permanent hiatus from this boand. Scammers like you are not needed here. It's bad enough we have to deal with them in the hobby.

+1

I hear you wanting to come clean, but that was after you were caught right?

Sorry NJ but I agree with Jesse. Were all human but zero tolerance for this stuff. Like another board member said, this is about having fun. And this hurts our hobby.

[esd10]

Im a forgiving type but this type of bull$hit is happening way to often on ebay/othe sights and this board is a kind of shelter from that type of non sense. I trust the members on this forum to be straight up and honest the first time not when they are busted for doing the wrong things and then apologizing once they are caught.

[KingFisk]

Derivative. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_uEfF7oj1c)I love that movie. Never found a big audience back then and sadly overlooked these days. Nice reference.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[ullmandds]

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

[glchen]

Noah, pretty much all of the other posters have been very hard on you, but you are good in my book. Everyone makes mistakes, even bad ones. It's how we handle ourselves afterwards that measure our true character. Stay true to yourself even in rough times.

[Vintagecatcher]

The OP listed his home as Conover, WI in his fraudulent listing.

I'm curious if this is a bogus location as well since it truly appears the Con is Over!

Patrick

[Rookiemonster]

Noah, pretty much all of the other posters have been very hard on you, but you are good in my book. Everyone makes mistakes, even bad ones. It's how we handle ourselves afterwards that measure our true character. Stay true to yourself even in rough times.

But it’s what you do when no one is looking that proves your integrity. Without integrity what is character?

I don’t think anyone has been hard on him. I do think his shill of justice is a joke. Then to open a case about it . That’s the worst part. Not printing some lame t206 reprints. It never stopped until he got busted. No character or integrity in sight.

[mechanicalman]

Man, this sucks.

I wanted to believe in you. You came on here all howdy doody-like with a cartoon avatar, calling everyone "Mr.," and loving your beater commons. I loved the purity of your collecting. It seemed genuine. But you now seem as fake as your cards. You knew what you were doing here.

My advice, for what it's worth: take a break, gather yourself, and come back when the time is right. But leave the little boy-schtick in the past. Plenty of other people have come back from worse as this sh*t seems to sadly be the status quo in this glorious hobby of ours. I truly wish you the best.

[KingFisk]

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

Agreed, Pete, and for me it is going to be extremely hard to forgive and/or forget this one, and that's 100% attributable to the way NJ had carried himself on this board since his first forgiven transgression a few years ago (on the BST). The unfailingly polite, aw shucks, "Thanks, Mr. (insert name here)," sweet-natured enthusiasm really duped me, even though I had a less than great personal experience with him once (way, way down on the transgression list - he simply didn't get back to me after telling me he was interested in a card and then not responding to me after I quoted a price. Not a big deal at all, just kind of annoying). It's now just really tough to square that nice kid with the person that pulled off a scam and only came clean by his own admission after being prodded. I'm glad he admitted everything - I wish more scammers would do so - but I hate the feeling I have about being had by NJ's squeaky-clean kid act.

[chalupacollects]

So after opening an unpaid on ebay did you turn yourself in to the local police?

That would show an intent to change...and be believable...

[njdunkin1]

Thanks to all who have posted. I've read each response thoroughly and have been in discussion with Leon.

Without revealing too much personal information, I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things. I'm not saying this as an excuse, but (for example) each time I addressed someone by their first name, it was genuine and it was how I was raised.

These actions of mine are not a proper example of how I was raised and on what moral grounds I'm being taught to live by. I again apologize to each member affected by this; it wasn't just foolishness, I acted out stupidly and arrogantly.

I've spoken with Leon; I'm going to take a break for a little while and gather myself.

I appreciate all of the feedback as I'm going to spend some time under the leadership of wise council and trusted adults in my life.

NJ Dunkin

[edjs]

Not to discount what any of you guys have said, but dude, those are the worst looking fakes I have ever seen. By far. Other than that, you did wrong, but don't let it define you. The guys are being justifiably hard on you, but this is not the end of your world. Learn from this, and grow to be a better person. I always liked the saying that until you hit rock bottom you don't know how far it is to the top. Now is the time to make the change.

[PiratesWS1979]

I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things.

"The eBay User Agreement requires that members be at least 18 years."

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

njdunkin_2
Apr-16-18
Present

katie5831
Mar-20-17
Apr-16-18

njdunkin1
Jan-14-17
Mar-20-17

k*******1
Jan-01-05
Jan-14-17

[cardsnstuff]

Thanks to all who have posted. I've read each response thoroughly and have been in discussion with Leon.

Without revealing too much personal information, I'm still in high school and am in the learning process about a lot of things. I'm not saying this as an excuse, but (for example) each time I addressed someone by their first name, it was genuine and it was how I was raised.

These actions of mine are not a proper example of how I was raised and on what moral grounds I'm being taught to live by. I again apologize to each member affected by this; it wasn't just foolishness, I acted out stupidly and arrogantly.

I've spoken with Leon; I'm going to take a break for a little while and gather myself.

I appreciate all of the feedback as I'm going to spend some time under the leadership of wise council and trusted adults in my life.

NJ Dunkin


Dude;

I certainly have made my share of mistakes; To err is human, to forgive is divine, but to fraud is unforgivable {as in intentional act to deceive}. You seem responsible enough to admit you made a mistake. My advice, learn from this life lesson and realize your reputation is worth a lot more than a few $. In a small niche marketplace; you will be better off overcharging for the right stuff {if you have to} than to sell a fake product. I think it's a good idea to reflect on this and maybe even return any money, even at a loss if you have to. {although I am not your father} Good luck in the future and remember when you lie once, you usually have to lie multiple times to cover the original lie. Start with the truth...................it's much easier. I do admire your sincerity, if it's real, though.

[glchen]

But it’s what you do when no one is looking that proves your integrity. Without integrity what is character?

I don’t think anyone has been hard on him. I do think his shill of justice is a joke. Then to open a case about it . That’s the worst part. Not printing some lame t206 reprints. It never stopped until he got busted. No character or integrity in sight.

He made a mistake. He fessed up. This isn't like Candiman auctions where they are trying to sell more junk. Probably, he should be suspended or banned from BST, and he should avoid giving his opinions in ethical threads. However, I see no reason why he shouldn't collect and participate in the hobby.

[tschock]

"The eBay User Agreement requires that members be at least 18 years."

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

njdunkin_2
Apr-16-18
Present

katie5831
Mar-20-17
Apr-16-18

njdunkin1
Jan-14-17
Mar-20-17

k*******1
Jan-01-05
Jan-14-17

Yeah, I just saw that as well. "Member since: Jan-01-05" ???? (I have a guess though)

[ullmandds]

Heaven knows the trouble I'd have gotten into when I was a young man if the internet existed as it does today. Dunkin...take this to heart...learn from it...you'll be ok...hopefully.

[tschock]

Heaven knows the trouble I'd have gotten into when I was a young man if the internet existed as it does today. Dunkin...take this to heart...learn from it...you'll be ok...hopefully.

+ (pick a number)

[hcv123]

Here is his admission from post #2 on this thread:

However, this time I made my listings very gray regarding authenticity and provenance of the cards.

That is pretty clear. He also said this:

-In contrast, the Abbatchio and Cobb each had bids, so I couldn’t cancel. Instead of facing up to the buyer and being straightforward, I tried to bid and win my own cards with my purchasing account (username: njdunkin_1). I did not and would not shill my own auctions to earn a higher bid.

He says he wouldn’t shill, but I believe his actions are shilling.


Mark Medlin

He said he wanted to "win" his own auctions to chop off the head of the snake, but then has perfect opportunity to just keep them when the bidder didn't pay. Instead he chose to open a case against.....something doesn't make sense about that.

Regarding accountability and apology - it takes a lot to publicly step up and be accountable - good for you (sincerely). First and foremost when you "act in a way you know to be wrong (and I believe you knew this as you were doing it) - you violate your own integrity - something much more difficult to forgive than the forgiveness you seek here.

I was not harmed by you and have nothing invested here - I hope your words and intent are true - first and foremost for you. I am sure that while some may forgive, as stated by others - many (myself included) would not choose to do business with you.

Act right and show yourself and others that you can. Honestly wishing you all the best.

Howard

[edjs]

Yeah, I just saw that as well. "Member since: Jan-01-05" ???? (I have a guess though)

Yeah, that needs some explaining. How old were you when you joined eBay? Obviously under the "must be 18" rule. Since that was 13 years ago, and you are in high school, you must of been what, 3 or 4?

[njdunkin1]

Yeah, that needs some explaining. How old were you when you joined eBay? Obviously under the "must be 18" rule. Since that was 13 years ago, and you are in high school, you must of been what, 3 or 4?

I can attest to this; It's my folks' account (hence "katie")

If you'll look at the original name and first name change, you'll see it coincided not too long after I began buying cards.

NJ Dunkin

Edit: this is likely my last post to answer any residual questions in conclusion before my suspension. thank you to all who have responded.

[PowderedH2O]

Forgiven dude. Put it in the past. Be a stand up person here from now on and you'll eventually get credibility back. None here can claim to have been 100% honest for their entire lives. It is how you learn and grow from it. Good luck.

[Corporal Lance Boil]

I guess I don't understand. Actions have consequences. This young man made a conscientious effort to deceive, for financial profit. Not only that, but he is technically under his parent's jurisdiction, yes? He made an effort to deceive people of their hard earned money, their time, and their love of collecting. I have no idea why his continued presence here would be justifiable.

Ban.


Tony

[Leon]

I guess I don't understand. Actions have consequences. This young man made a conscientious effort to deceive, for financial profit. Not only that, but he is technically under his parent's jurisdiction, yes? He made an effort to deceive people of their hard earned money, their time, and their love of collecting. I have no idea why his continued presence here would be justifiable.

Ban.
Tony
He is going on a year, formal hiatus after today.

[iwantitiwinit]

Disappointing. In the future when asking for advice on card matters via PM you can keep the "blessings and thanks" for someone else. No excuse for this kind of stuff but time will tell, hopefully we will see a positive change, good luck to you.



Also, I just noticed you started a thread on jan 2 2018 (which you edited in late March) looking for UZIT backs and I'm starting to think there is more to this story (I just cut and pasted it here).........

I would be thrilled to pick up my 1st Uzit, Broad Leaf, or Red Hindu this weekend!
Any condition, any front, any price.

I can add cash to a trade deal or add trade to a cash deal.

Photos, PMs, emails work, too


Blessings in reminder of the Savior who gave His life for us this Easter weekend,

NJ

[Yoda]

I guess I don't understand. Actions have consequences. This young man made a conscientious effort to deceive, for financial profit. Not only that, but he is technically under his parent's jurisdiction, yes? He made an effort to deceive people of their hard earned money, their time, and their love of collecting. I have no idea why his continued presence here would be justifiable.

Ban.


Tony
I believe his Confession would have been better done in church rather than the board.

[richardcards]

Sadden to hear about n j.
He sold me this Magee and it's my favorite t206 and I
am happy with it.
Best of luck
Richard

[iwantitiwinit]

Hmmmm.

[hcv123]

Sadden to hear about n j.
He sold me this Magee and it's my favorite t206 and I
am happy with it.
Best of luck
Richard

:eek::eek::eek:
Anyone else thinking what I am?

[Bpm0014]

Really sad to hear of this. We have all made mistakes. You seemed like a good dude too. This is a learning experience. Hopefully you come back in a year a better person from this.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Tell me this guy is like 12....certainly acts like it

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[edjs]

:eek::eek::eek:
Anyone else thinking what I am?

This?

[pokerplyr80]

Forgiven dude. Put it in the past. Be a stand up person here from now on and you'll eventually get credibility back. None here can claim to have been 100% honest for their entire lives. It is how you learn and grow from it. Good luck.

I don't see how you'd ever get credibility back after something like this. It's not like he accidentally bought a counterfeit card and unknowingly tried to sell it as an original. An unfortunate aspect of this for me is the fact that he's been reading our complaint threads about fraudulent Ebay sellers and the damage they do this hobby and thought hey that sounds like a good idea, I think I'll give that a try.

[Jewish-collector]

Sometimes you gotta say, "WTF" and admit your guilt.

[npa589]

Bye Felicia

+1

[slidekellyslide]

all joking aside...it'll be tough to recover from such a flub...but it can be done. Some will never forgive...many others will forget. But It WILL take years of being an upstanding member of society...I mean net54.

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

[Sean]

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

[Buythatcard]

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

I missed it also. Is there a link?

[Gradedcardman]

I'm sorry that I missed that drama.

Would love to know this person so I can write them off my list of people to do transactions with.

[hcv123]

Would love to know this person so I can write them off my list of people to do transactions with.

Me too

[53Browns]

Yet another reason to reinforce my decision to ONLY collect PSA/SGC slabbed cards. I know the major graders aren't perfect either and can miss one here and there but it's getting to be like the wild west with ungraded items, IMHO.

[Leon]

Some forgive, some forget and some do both. There is still a poster here that was found to be a member of a neo-nazi website years ago and he just rolls along like it never happened.

Was that Jerry Senility?

[slidekellyslide]

Was that Jerry Senility?

Yep

[Leon]

Yep

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

[slidekellyslide]

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

[KMayUSA6060]

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn :)

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've seen in his similar conversations with others who have confronted him, he has worked to sculpt his "apology" to open the door as much as possible for forgiveness. Essentially, he's working the angles to avoid the death penalty in the hobby. I wanted to share our conversation because I don't believe there should be much sympathy for him. I know people live by the adage "forgive and forget" but I'm not sure I'll ever forgive, and I sure as hell won't forget.

I have no idea how old he is. I do know that money affects livelihoods. It's criminal what he did, no matter the age, and his knowledge on the situation is well beyond any potential ignorance at his age.

[darwinbulldog]

Surely the simplest explanation is that he endorses the views espoused on the site. Perhaps he's also sending his savings to Nigerian princes and to people selling raw T206 Wagners on eBay or something, but being senile doesn't make you racist. It might make you less careful about revealing your racism, but that's a separate issue.

[Leon]

Well, it was 9 years ago, and he was signed up for the website. He claimed it was a "history" site. I don't know how old Jerry is, but even a senile person would find the "history" on that site to be off a bit.

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Back to NJ. I really hope he learns from this. I wish I had learned some life-skills things when I was younger. Learning the hard way is difficult.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I can't understand why, if he bid the lots up to make sure nobody else won them due to remorse, he then opened the unpaid item cases. And as a seller, can't you always cancel your own listing even if there are bids on it?

[ullmandds]

Another good reason to avoid collecting T206...no one messes with caramels!!!!!

[slidekellyslide]

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.


I didn't buy his explanation then and I certainly don't forget or forgive when it comes to something like that. NOBODY could ever read a single thread on that site and come to the conclusion that it's a good place to read up on history. I think maybe you should go back and read the thread. And sorry that I've sidetracked this thread (you can thank me in a year Mr Dunkin), but that's the first thing that pops in my head every single time I see him post here.

[bnorth]

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ed-abbatchio-blue-Sleeves-Uzit-print/112814076406?hash=item1a443e31f6:g:fdsAAOSwyAJag2v k)

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin

My only question is, were all the cards listed like the one in the link? That one clearly says it is a reprint.

[Peter_Spaeth]

My only question is, were all the cards listed like the one in the link? That one clearly says it is a reprint.

Not really. It says being sold as a reprint per ebay rules, but then he invites people to conclude otherwise by posting a scan of an authentic card and saying "you decide." Also he lies about the origin of the card, saying he just acquired it as opposed to he made it himself.

[Orioles1954]

In 1999, I had to join a couple of white supremacist websites in order to interview a Klan leader and Tom Metzger (google him, creepy dude) for a graduate school project. Haven't been back since. Those places were...well....sobering.

[pokerplyr80]

Not a fan but dunno....Don't think he is a skinhead just senile. I know he had visited a site like that. I don't think we want skinheads on this site but I don't think Jerry fits the bill. Like I say, I think he is just senile. That said if anyone has any proof I would love to see it and will act on it.

I'd consider doing business with a racist or a skinhead before I would with someone who blatantly defrauded others in the hobby. Although I do agree it would be best not to have either as members of this community.

[Fballguy]

Don't believe this has been pointed out, but you can end an auction that has bids, so the non-shilling claim seems a little hard to believe.

Not that it wasn't hard to believe in the context of this listing to begin with.

That he tries to portray himself as a con man with standards (I wouldn't shill bid!) leads me to believe he's not coming completely clean and would probably be hard to trust at any point in the future.

On a side note...I don't believe this is really a high schooler. I think he/she is trying to catfish us.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Don't believe this has been pointed out, but you can end an auction that has bids, so the non-shilling claim seems a little hard to believe.

Not that it wasn't hard to believe in the context of this listing to begin with.

That he tries to portray himself as a con man with standards (I wouldn't shill bid!) leads me to believe he's not coming completely clean and would probably be hard to trust at any point in the future.

On a side note...I don't believe this is really a high schooler. I think he/she is trying to catfish us.

Yeah I just mentioned that, and it does undercut his story. As does opening up the non paying bidder case.

[bigfish]

Net54 members and all,


Before I communicate the following words, I wanted to let you know that this is NJ Dunkin, posting regarding a mistake I made a few weeks’ past. I made some counterfeit T206 reproductions to sell on eBay, but instead of making clear that these were fakes, I made the area of authenticity very gray. I recognize this as immoral, deceptive, and misleading.

Here is a link to one of the four auctions in question:

Abbatchio Uzit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ed-abbatchio-blue-Sleeves-Uzit-print/112814076406?hash=item1a443e31f6:g:fdsAAOSwyAJag2v k)

I seek forgiveness for three things:
1) My actions were wrong. I recognize this and apologize for it.
2) I was confronted about this on Facebook (Tobacco Row) and stretched the truth in order to paint myself in a better light. I seek forgiveness for deceiving Facebook and board members alike.
3) I should have posted this publicly as soon as it happened, yet I delayed in posting to try and preserve my self-image and reputation.

I realize that this whole situation and how I handled it was wrong, and that I have no excuse for my actions.

I have reserved post #2 for the full details of the story. I wrote this out about a week ago. The details of the story below are the truth, but you do not have to read them or even read further than this sentence. I know the last thing I deserve is your forgiveness, but I felt led to communicate this to you knowing that it was wrong to carry on without associating myself publicly with my actions.

Thank you to the board and Facebook members for the encouragement to take this step.

Noah "NJ" Dunkin


Huh??

Are you leaving the hobby?

Toby Petersen

[Gradedcardman]

I believe Leon banished/suspended him for one year. Enjoyed the young blood in the hobby. Hope he stays in it.

[mechanicalman]

I think this situation just shows that nothing good happens when high school boys hang out on Internet chat boards with mostly middle-age adult males. ;)

[Rookiemonster]

What’s to stop him from mastering his skills? Going to other Facebook/forums ?
Making more FAKE ebay accounts with the intention of selling fakes and shilling them? Making or already has made a fake net54 user name?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

This is the birth of a card con artist. He’ll be around for years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who knows what direction this young man will take, hopefully an honest one, but there are some major card doctors who started quite young.

[oldjudge]

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

[KingFisk]

Remember this thread? He deleted all of his comments last week.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1520993

[Paul S]

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?
Sure he's in HS. He takes printshop as an elective:rolleyes:

[Leon]

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

No, and there are a few issues at hand. If in fact he is under 18 he shouldn't be on our BST anyway, without a parents approval (I have gotten a few over the years). Secondly before he is allowed back he and I will have a long conversation before he is admitted. If he is good enough to fool me in a long and inquisitive conversation, God Bless him. And also, at which time I will ask to speak to a parent.
ps...skinhead affiliated person is gone.
.

[KMayUSA6060]

I think this situation just shows that nothing good happens when high school boys hang out on Internet chat boards with mostly middle-age adult males. ;)

I'm not sure which route of insinuation this comment is supposed to take, but I don't think I want to go down any of those paths. :eek:

What’s to stop him from mastering his skills? Going to other Facebook/forums ?
Making more FAKE ebay accounts with the intention of selling fakes and shilling them? Making or already has made a fake net54 user name?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

This is the birth of a card con artist. He’ll be around for years.

A big Pre-War card group on Facebook has been well notified of his existence. He actually tried joining, and his first post was an admission or something (I forget if it was in response to someone calling him out after they recognized the name). I'm sure other card communities on social media are being made aware of his existence.

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

Full-heartily agree. I think he has more to hide than what he's leading onto. There is a lot in his story that doesn't make sense.

Sure he's in HS. He takes printshop as an elective:rolleyes:

Well done. :D

[Hellwig]

He had YouTube videos up under the account EpicMistCOC they are since deleted or private (I guess)

[Fballguy]

NJ's sincerity in this apology should be heavily scrutinized. I have good reason to believe he's only sorry he got caught.

I have a friend in the hobby that noticed something fishy with NJ's eBay listings, and he showed them to me. NJ and I have had some good conversations in the past, as I'm sure many of you have experienced. I reached out to him to see what these fishy listings were about, knowing full well what the intent was. From NJ's presence on here, he always came off as a very passionate individual regarding the hobby, trying to soak up knowledge and really be a positive influence in the community. I knew he wasn't ignorant when it came to fakes, and his listings clearly contained fakes. It angered me, and when I confronted him, his responses pissed me off even more. For full disclosure, I will copy and paste our conversation from February below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Hey NJ,

Are you selling reprints as questionable?

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hey Kyle!

Great to hear from you, brother. I actually put up the listings to try and copy the pseudo-legitimate style that so many listers use, but ended up feeling bad and took down as many as I physically could at the end, while bidding up the other two to make sure no one would win them.

Next time I re-list, I've decided to make it much more clear that these are intended to look like old reproductions (although I had listed the cards as "reprints" under that category already.)

It's a fun project to make them and make a few bucks in turn :)

How have your collecting adventures been? Picked up anything new lately?

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
Cut it out. You're better than that. I've always thought highly of you, and from what I know you have a good reputation in the hobby. Don't jeopardize that for a few cheap bucks. You're doing it on a separate account from your main eBay account, which is sketchy as well.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Hmm...perhaps you are right. I wouldn't do this to damage my reputation intentionally, but selling "reprints" could be cardboard suicide. I'll give this some thought.

Kyle May Feb 21 to NJ
You're smarter than that, and I think you know why you did this, and that what you did/are doing was/is wrong. You went for the chump change. Of course you didn't purposefully damage your reputation, because you didn't think you'd get caught by selling on your second account. Your emails don't sound very remorseful either, and now I'm seeing a post on Net54 that you're looking for 3 pricey cards? Please tell me you aren't using any profits from this scheme to fund those purchases. Sorry NJ, but something stinks here and I don't like it.

NJ Dunkin Feb 21 to me
Kyle,

I have never done this for easy money or to take a sleazy road. That has never been and never will be my intention. Please hear my heart on this--don't read in to this more than it is.

I'll never sell reprints like this again. I can give you my honest word, I never did this to take advantage of anyone. It was just like crafts in school; I did it for fun in an effort to make intentionally advertised reproductions for display.

The moral ambiguity was a mistake on my part; realizing how foolish that looked only came after I logged in to check the auctions.

I would not want to lose my friendship with you at all, brother. I wouldn't lose it for the world. I really enjoy your company and love our discussions of old cards.

Additionally, if you would like to hear why I asked about those cards on N54 (the expensive ones), I would be happy to explain them to you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This sounds like a poorly written screenplay.

[Exhibitman]

Question: If he had walked into a card show and stolen some cards from a table would you be OK with having him here again, ever? If the answer is "no" then I don't think he should be allowed back. There are enough crooks in the hobby already; we don't need a trainee-crook.

[griffon512]

Question: If he had walked into a card show and stolen some cards from a table would you be OK with having him here again, ever? If the answer is "no" then I don't think he should be allowed back. There are enough crooks in the hobby already; we don't need a trainee-crook.

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.

[chalupacollects]

What’s to stop him from mastering his skills? Going to other Facebook/forums ?
Making more FAKE ebay accounts with the intention of selling fakes and shilling them? Making or already has made a fake net54 user name?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

This is the birth of a card con artist. He’ll be around for years.


I agree but I hope that his/her getting pinched on this forum is the end in the hobby for this person, maybe he/she rights themselves and this episode is not just their "gateway drug" to bigger and more sophisticated scams...

[ruth_rookie]

LOl. Indeed. What balls. How dare you rip me off when I'm trying to rip you off.

Lmao

[Peter_Spaeth]

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

[slidekellyslide]

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

~cough~candiman~cough~

[Peter_Spaeth]

~cough~candiman~cough~

Indeed, the brothers seem to have left the kitchen.

[bigfish]

I completely agree. Even if he is young (and I very much doubt he is younger than 20 based upon reading his words in this thread) he pursued an extended con. If someone makes a lot of mistakes when they are young that primarily screws up their own life (drugs, alcohol, etc.), I'm sympathetic. If the focus is on damaging someone's else life that's a whole different ballgame in my book. Plus I'm really tired of those that follow this pattern:

1) Sell yourself as an extremely devout Christian do-gooder by saying things like "all blessings to Jesus, our Lord and savior, etc."

2) Do a series of things over a long period of time deliberately damaging other peoples' lives.

3) Once caught (not before then), ask or expect to be vindicated though a bunch of superficial mea culpas.

I don't buy it, and I don't see that as being harsh or overly punitive. I see it as being a realist. If he earnestly wants to compensate for conning people he can undertake his own self-exile away from this Board/hobby. We are all full up on bad actors in this hobby. There is no need for another casting call in a year.


Well said, James. This guy is so full of shit it’s coming out of his ears. Unfortunately, we are seeing this type of stuff once a month these days. Very unfortunate.

Toby Petersen

[chlankf]

He denied being one. Not every single member of our 9000+ members collect cards....But if someone saw they were a member here at a primarily card forum, they might assume they were a collector of cards. But it's not always the case.

Exactly Leon. In '99-'02, a band I was in played a show that unfortunately had a couple skinheads present. We all just kinda shook our heads. Six months or so later we played the same city and venue. Shocking, the place was packed with these disturbing individuals. Next thing we know an offer comes in to play some hate festival. We find our bands & members names on their website. Lots of time and effort to get removed but I'm not 100% there isn't something lingering. 🤟

When you read the OP's words they do not sound like they are coming from a HS kid(see conversations with Kyle)--they sound like an older person. Call me skeptical, but I do not believe he is in HS.
Leon-Has he given you any proof that he is in HS?

No way he's in HS. I have three boys aged 15-20. They DO NOT communicate like this. Brother... Come on. That's how me and my friends talk, I'm 45. Side note, my father taught me at a young age that a theif was the lowest of all, preying on others for any reason, forgot. Nope. Yes people can and do change but a theif will never stop if opportunity arises. Coming back? Wait. Are we going to continue to allow this sort of individual to gain knowledge from all you fine folks for possible/probably future use?

Rant done.

[autograf]

Bye Felicia

Jay coming in strong with a super hip reference. You are on your game. Touché.

[npa589]

IMO, invoking religion/faith to create the impression that one is honest and trustworthy is, more often than not, a big red flag.

I am the Music Director at a Christian church, grew up in the church, and believe in it very strongly --- and I completely agree with this statement. When someone is that over the top with it, it's a red flag everywhere...including in the church.

[Eric72]

What a tremendously sad situation. With so much fraud and deceit, the hobby is getting harder to enjoy.

I remember when the cards were the focal point of collecting. Now, it seems like the scammers and BS stories get a disproportionate amount of the attention and headlines.

[joshuanip]

What a tremendously sad situation. With so much fraud and deceit, the hobby is getting harder to enjoy.

I remember when the cards were the focal point of collecting. Now, it seems like the scammers and BS stories get a disproportionate amount of the attention and headlines.

I think the majority are good honest people who are here as a hobby not to poach. There will always be bad apples, especially when money is involved. But that is the exception and for the most part, we collectors are a good bunch. Want proof, look no further than all those friend and family transactions.

[vintagerookies51]

Inexcusable behavior for sure. When I came onto this board I was in MIDDLE school and still knew enough to know that this behavior is fraudulent. I don’t know how educated Noah is on the hobby, but from his posts it seems he should know better than this... however, if he’s as young as he says he is, I think he can learn from this and be a good fellow young member of the card collecting community down the road. I’d give him another chance

[Buythatcard]

I think that someone who commits fraud, especially against other members should be banned for life from the board. By letting him back after a year or whatever shows that we forgive him for ripping us off. If somebody tries to hurt or rip me off, I cut off all ties with them forever. We do not need these people in the hobby and need to send a strong message to them.

Banning somebody from the board is only part of the solution. He will still be able to sell stuff on eBay and rip off unsuspecting people. eBay will still allow this type of behavior.

[Leon]

I think that someone who commits fraud, especially against other members should be banned for life from the board. By letting him back after a year or whatever shows that we forgive him for ripping us off. If somebody tries to hurt or rip me off, I cut off all ties with them forever. We do not need these people in the hobby and need to send a strong message to them.

Banning somebody from the board is only part of the solution. He will still be able to sell stuff on eBay and rip off unsuspecting people. eBay will still allow this type of behavior.

We have a year to think about reinstatement. If the time comes (and after age verification) this might be the first poll to see if someone gets reinstated. :cool: There doesn't seem to be a unanimous thinking on it?

PS. I wish the threads showing how there IS TODAY millions (I doubt that is an exaggeration) of dollars of fraud going on, got as much attention. Sigh.....

[Buythatcard]

We have a year to think about reinstatement. If the time comes (and after age verification) this might be the first poll to see if someone gets reinstated. :cool: There doesn't seem to be a unanimous thinking on it?

PS. I wish the threads showing how there IS TODAY millions (I doubt that is an exaggeration) of dollars of fraud going on, got as much attention. Sigh.....

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

[ullmandds]

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

i kind of agree with this sentiment. i think the board should have a zero tolerance policy on crookery aimed at its members. 1 strike and you're out!

Time to make the donuts?

[Leon]

One problem about waiting to decide in a year from now is that many of us will forget what happened. There will also be many new members who do not know anything about this incident.
We will never get rid of fraud completely. Hopefully, this board can continue to knock some of them out. I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

We have seen 12+ yrs old threads bumped more than once. Collectively our members have very good memories and find these threads quickly. Not everyone's memory is as bad as mine. :) I also feel like I am arguing with my wife about things that might, or probably won't, happen in the future. Thanks for the kind words of trying to keep the riff raff out.

As for one strike and you are out, I agree if there is fraud where someone is currently financially harmed. If there is no financial harm I am more lenient. But a poll on this one could be interesting.

[ullmandds]

But a poll on this one could be interesting.

true DAT!

[aconte]

PS. I wish the threads showing how there IS TODAY millions (I doubt that is an exaggeration) of dollars of fraud going on, got as much attention. Sigh.....

Leon,

This comment hasn't gone unnoticed. Scary coming from you since I feel
you know more of what goes on day after day!

[commishbob]

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

[Buythatcard]

Maybe "fraud related" threads could be placed in their own forum for search/posterity purposes. Down by the Water Cooler forums or below the testing forum maybe. Other card forums have a 'bad trader' section so perhaps this is something to consider. OTOH cluttering up the site with additional forums may not be desirable. Just thinking out loud here as it were.

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

[TobaccoKing4]

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

[vintagetoppsguy]

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

[Leon]

I still think that this main forum would be the best place to discuss it. Having it buried in another section might make it difficult to find.
But the idea of having a "fraud related" thread can list sellers and buyers who have done wrong in the business. Who to watch out for. I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

[Bpm0014]

I think that you(Leon) and the rest of this board have done a terrific job in trying to keep this hobby clean.

I 100% agree with this. You guys, everyone, does an unbelievable job!

[Leon]

My opinion is that if he can prove he's a high school teen, then he should serve his 1 year sentence and be re-instated with limited access to the BST (as a buyer only, not a seller - at least not for a while). We should just chalk it up as being young, irresponsible and immature. That's assuming Leon talks to him and gets the feeling that he's truly sorry.

On another note, I think banning someone for being a neo-Nazi is far worse than being a neo-Nazi. Since when does Net54 moderators intrude in people's personal lives and what they do outside the boards as long as the propaganda is not being espoused on the boards? I don't care what someone does outside the boards as long as they have positive things to contribute to the boards. I don't care if they're a member of the KKK, BLM, what political party they belong to, their religion or whatever. Why is any of that important to board membership (again as long as they're not espousing their views on the board)? Very, very intrusive. Worse than gov't intrusion in my opinion. Guess that's what America is coming to.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place. ;)

[Buythatcard]

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

Makes sense. Just keep things the way they are. It appears to be working.

[commishbob]

We have generally avoided a bad sellers or buyers section, primarily, because of the age old wisdom - There are 3 sides to every story. Just don't know if we want to go down that rabbit hole. The way we do it today has worked fairly well for a long time. And there "could" be some liability issues I can think of, on the forum's part, if we hosted that specific area. There might be more headache than it's worth.

That makes sense. Thanks for the response Leon.

[steve B]

I couldn't disagree more strongly. I do care. If there is a confirmed skinhead, KKK member or worse on this board, and I find out, they won't be here. And if anyone doesn't like it they can pound sand.
BTW, I actually see the point being made concerning interfering in private lives. But this is a private board and it's not going to cater to those extreme haters, even if they don't espouse their hate on the board, while the current management is in place. ;)

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

[gregr2]

Hi all, I took about a 2 year hiatus from the board (self imposed, got a little burned out) and logged in two days ago for the first time. I was really saddened to see this thread. Seems this hobby can't ever get rid of the bad apples and when they do, another one grows from the tree.

That is all.
Greg

[Leon]

The question then becomes where do you draw the line(s) and what's too extreme left and what's too extreme right?

As an odd personal experience/example, one of the first online groups I joined was an AOL chat board about listening to shortwave radio.

Turns out one member was a well known - like was on TV here in the US- racist. Except he was just a really mellow one, didn't come across as hateful, didn't express a wish for violence on anyone, just didn't want to live next door to anyone who wasn't like him. (Something I totally disagree with and find really undesirable even the relaxed way he expressed it) He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all.

Most of us just wanted them both to stfu and get back to discussing what weird radio stations were on what frequency....


So which would get banned? The mellow A-Hole, or the violence promoting guy who was probably ok in real life?

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

[steve B]

I feel it is my duty to try to provide a relaxing, peaceful and friendly environment around here. The fact that there could be some who espouse hatred being in those groups, makes it uncomfortable for many members including myself. If someone keeps their views to themself, and they aren't running for the Grand KKK dude, then they probably wouldn't even be known about on this forum. I think it comes down to who we want to associate with. I firmly believe the great majority here don't want to associate with hate mongers. This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations. I can't imagine trying to do a deal with a known skinhead or Natzi on the BST, therefore it's not going to happen.

I can agree with that.

I don't have much tolerance for them either, but I also don't go out of my way to find out stuff about everyone I come in contact with. Like you said, if they stick to cards and aren't a public figure or activist we'll probably never know.
I just think a situation could come up where there's a disagreement about hobby stuff (Nah, that never happens! ) And someone digs up something to get the other person kicked off. That wouldn't seem fair to me even if I didn't like the persons views.

[Rookiemonster]

So if Hitler was a good board member then that’s all that matters? How could you even try to make argument for a nazi on the board. It’s not like he doesn’t like dogs or hates vegetables. He believes in the views and actions of the Nazi party. Even comparing it to republicans or democrat is ridiculous.

[Stampsfan]

Given the direction this thread has taken, I feel I have to say up front that the following comments are made tongue in cheek. Cynical and self deprecating humor is something I embrace and enjoy.

... however, if he’s as young as he says he is, I think he can learn from this and be a good fellow young member of the card collecting community down the road. I’d give him another chance
Perhaps he counts his age the same way some Domincan baseball players do when trying to land a professional contract. "Hey, that kid in the Little League World Series has a beard..."

… I would love to see a list of eBay buyers who have tried ripping off sellers so that I can block them. I would also love to see the same thing for sellers.
How about a list of eBay buyers who have 100% feedback and never renege on payment?
Wait, perhaps that may be too short a thread.

… He got in an argument with someone from the Netherlands who explicitly stated that anyone who was racist should be killed. And did so repeatedly. Like round up the racists and get rid of them all…
I think it's awful and hateful when people attach stereotypes to a group of individuals...
;)

[tschock]

As for one strike and you are out, I agree if there is fraud where someone is currently financially harmed. If there is no financial harm I am more lenient. But a poll on this one could be interesting.

We (meaning Leon) probably should state that 'on the clubhouse door' along with providing that as part of the information you are provided when asking to join. Anyone caught engaging in fraudulent activities on the board will be banned for life.

Since it's a lifetime ban, membership reinstatement can be considered after one's demise though.

[Leon]

Given the direction this thread has taken, I feel I have to say up front that the following comments are made tongue in cheek. Cynical and self deprecating humor is something I embrace and enjoy.


Perhaps he counts his age the same way some Domincan baseball players do when trying to land a professional contract. "Hey, that kid in the Little League World Series has a beard..."


How about a list of eBay buyers who have 100% feedback and never renege on payment?
Wait, perhaps that may be too short a thread.


I think it's awful and hateful when people attach stereotypes to a group of individuals...
;)

Such as Neo-Natzi's, skinheads, KKK etc...?

[ALR-bishop]

Good reason to avoid opinions on the board, thereby requiring your name be out there and subject to background checks 😉

[cardsnstuff]

Maybe there should be a pinned thread that lists people that have been found to be scamming/committing fraud. This way people know to proceed with caution in dealing with those people in the event that are reinstated on the forum.

I agree 100%; bad trader is a matter of who's opinion you listen too; but out right theft, fraud, blatant deceit, known to sell counterfeits, etc are of primary importance to every member of this board. I would think. As a community I would hope it is in everyone's best interest to protect the member's of the community. Just my 3 cents.

[slidekellyslide]

Good reason to avoid opinions on the board, thereby requiring your name be out there and subject to background checks 😉

Btw this person outed himself 9 years ago. Nobody did a background check. One can either choose to believe his story about hanging out on a Nazi website or choose not to believe it.

[Bigdaddy]

This just isn't the place for those confirmed members of extremist organizations.

Can we get a list of those extremist organizations? So that we can be on the look out for them, of course.

Most of us probably can agree on some subset of the list, but I bet everyone on the board has a different list. Slippery slope if you ask me.

And I do thank you for the job your doing Leon, this is generally a very well behaved group and I enjoy being a member.

[Stampsfan]

Such as Neo-Natzi's, skinheads, KKK etc...?

I tried to be funny, exploiting the irony...