The 2018 Dinger Whiff Derby Winner - Jose Ramirez 76

[frankbmd]

This thread will be the ultimate delight for all you Yankee fans.

There are three choices in this year’s Dinger Whiff Derby. Until opening day you may choose any of the three choices

1. Giancarlo Stanton
2. Aaron Judge
3. The Field (meaning anyone else on any major league team who scores higher will win for The Field)

The rules

1. Each entrant gets 4 points for each regular season home run.

2. Each entrant gets -1 point for each regular season strike out.

3. The highest total by a single player at the end of the season is the winner.

4. To enter the sweepstakes contest, simply guess the winning player in the Dinger Whiff derby and his winning Dinger Whiff number at season's end.
A prize to be determined related to the winning player will be awarded. To qualify for the prize you must guess both the player and the number on the nose.
The deadline for sweepstakes entries shall be the "All-Star Game break".
You may make a single revision of your entry until September 1 to change the Dinger Whiff number, but not the player.

The Scoreboard below will be updated periodically during the season. If I am incorrect about the leader in the Field, please let me know.

Current standings including games played on 7/27

71 . The Field Leader Ramirez (30 HR, 49 K)
50 . The Field Runnerup Betts (25 HR, 50 K)
-33 . Judge (26 HR, 137 K)
-43 . Stanton (23 HR, 135 K)
-87 . Last place ?? Moncado (13 HR, 139 K)

Enjoy the season and please note that you can easily follow this thread by simply googling “Dinger Whiff” :D


To become a member of the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame you must have over 1000 Dinger Whiff points.

Currently there are only 10 members of this exclusive Hall of Fame

1. Hank Aaron. 1637
2. Babe Ruth. 1526
3. Barry Bonds. 1509
4. Ted Williams. 1375
5. Albert Pujols. 1312. Still active so his number could go up or down.
6. Stan Musial. 1204
7. Lou Gehrig. 1182
8. Mel Ott. 1148
9. Willie Mays. 1114
10. Joe DiMaggio. 1075

If I missed one, please kindly let me know.

Will Stanton or Judge make the Hall?

[clydepepper]

Great Idea, Frank.

I'm not a Yankees' fan (though I don't hate them), so I'll take the field.

For all we know, both Stanton and Judge peaked last year.

I realize they both have plenty of opposite-field power, but if they were left-handed in Yankee Stadium, I may have chosen one of them instead of the field.

[frankbmd]

We’re off and running.

Currently Stanton leads Judge by 9 points, but trails the Field (Davidson) by 6.



Still time to enter due to lack of enthusiasm.

[gopherfan]

I think Sano has a chance to have the highest negative number this year. He is amazing in his ability to strikeout almost every at bat.

[frankbmd]

Judge has tied Stanton at -3 but they remain 15 points behind Harper and Dozier at this point.

It also looks like Ohtani could be the Dinger Whiff Rookie of the Year with 8 points so far. Time will tell.

[barrysloate]

Ian Happ has struck out a mind boggling 20 times in his first seven games, making him a bit hapless at the plate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How does that happen?

[frankbmd]

Happy days are here again
A score of Ks already in
With Happ the Cubs will never win
Happy days are here again

[barrysloate]

Stanton comfortably in the lead with a -8.

[frankbmd]

Stanton comfortably in the lead with a -8.

Actually a mere 27 points behind Harper the leader with 19.

Did you know that Joe DiMaggio is in the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame with a career Dinger Whiff total of 1075?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Surely you are not going to keep this thread going for the entire season. Like that thread reporting every Golden State win. :)

[ALR-bishop]

I am still looking for a way to participate while not following Frank's rules at the same time. But it is tougher to do this time.

[Paul S]

I am still looking for a way to participate while not following Frank's rules at the same time. But it is tougher to do this time.
Me too.

"Oh, Tani Boy
The Pipes
of Spam
are calling you..."
:);)

[barrysloate]

Surely you are not going to keep this thread going for the entire season. Like that thread reporting every Golden State win. :)

He is going to keep this open the whole season. And don't call him Shirley.

[frankbmd]

He is going to keep this open the whole season. And don't call him Shirley.

You’re damn right on both counts.:D

[Peter_Spaeth]

He is going to keep this open the whole season. And don't call him Shirley.

Shirley Shirley Bo Birley
Bonanna Fanna Fo Firley
Fee Fi Mo Mirley
Shirley

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here's one for ya. Most HRs for a player under 150 on the dinger whiff stat.

[frankbmd]

Thome’s Dinger Whiff Number is less than 0.
Thome hit 612 dingers.

[barrysloate]

Shirley Shirley Bo Birley
Bonanna Fanna Fo Firley
Fee Fi Mo Mirley
Shirley

The Name Game:)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Indeed. Shirley Ellis.

[frankbmd]

Rama Lama Ding Dong

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oo ee oo aa aa ting tang walla walla bing bang

[barrysloate]

How about a one eye one horn flying purple people eater.

[clydepepper]

ya dang skippy

[frankbmd]

ya dang skippy

How about a one eye one horn flying purple people eater.

Oo ee oo aa aa ting tang walla walla bing bang

Rama Lama Ding Dong

“They found a road to derailment. Jump onboard before the rap lyrics lock this baby up.”

Note: Dinger Whiff Numbers will updated less frequently in the initial post going forward. And believe when I say that lyrical bumps are still appreciated, Joe Tex lyrics not withstanding.;)

[frankbmd]

I am still looking for a way to participate while not following Frank's rules at the same time. But it is tougher to do this time.

Me too.

"Oh, Tani Boy
The Pipes
of Spam
are calling you..."
:);)

To satisfy the overwhelming demand for a confusing rule that could be broken, please note that Rule #4 has been added, since Yankee fans have not been overly enthusiastic about participating.

The sweepstakes rule #4 should be difficult to win, so the prize will be commensurate with the difficulty.

Note as well, that in the modern game, any positive dinger whiff number is an achievement. Whether there will ever be additional players added to the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame is debatable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What's the single season record? Is it DiMaggio in 1937 with 147?

[Paul S]

To satisfy the overwhelming demand for a confusing rule that could be broken, please note that Rule #4 has been added, since Yankee fans have not been overly enthusiastic about participating.

The sweepstakes rule #4 should be difficult to win, so the prize will be commensurate with the difficulty.

Note as well, that in the modern game, any positive dinger whiff number is an achievement. Whether there will ever be additional players added to the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame is debatable.
Would have entered but saw the thread a few days after others did. Didn't want to be a rude cheatin' SOB, so was Just messing from afar.

So, does Rule #4 mean I can still join and that my odds of winning will be commensurate with my late date? (Hi Marilyn Monroe).

p.s. Don't be a Yankee hater:D

[frankbmd]

If you consider pitchers with basically the same rules with the signs reversed, the Dinger Whiff Number becomes a zero sum game. Pitchers would get +1 for a K and -4 for homerun allowed or a gopher ball.

By checking a couple pitchers, Walter and Randy (not your average Johnsons), we find that both dead ball Walter and modern Randy both had career Dinger Whiff Numbers over 3000. No batter has reached 2000.

Makes sense as there are many pitchers who strike out a lot of hitters that don’t hit many home runs. Therefore pitching criteria for the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame have not been determined. If one wanted to find the tenth best pitcher in Dinger whiffs, his number would be comparable to 1000 for the batters considered Hall of Famers. I’m sure ‘stache could determine the tenth best pitcher faster than I, so I will wait for him to wake up.

And Paul, except for the deadlines in Rule #4, you can enter to your heart’s content. Sanchez and Gregorius may well be better choices than Judge and Stanton when all is said and done.;)

[ullmandds]

I will enter my predictions in due time but for now I predict both judge and Stanton will make the Hall of Fame...With the Prerequisite that each please 15 seasons. Problem is Frank you have to live long enough to see this happen!

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you consider pitchers with basically the same rules with the signs reversed, the Dinger Whiff Number becomes a zero sum game. Pitchers would get +1 for a K and -4 for homerun allowed or a gopher ball.

By checking a couple pitchers, Walter and Randy (not your average Johnsons), we find that both dead ball Walter and modern Randy both had career Dinger Whiff Numbers over 3000. No batter has reached 2000.

Makes sense as there are many pitchers who strike out a lot of hitters that don’t hit many home runs. Therefore pitching criteria for the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame have not been determined. If one wanted to find the tenth best pitcher in Dinger whiffs, his number would be comparable to 1000 for the batters considered Hall of Famers. I’m sure ‘stache could determine the tenth best pitcher faster than I, so I will wait for him to wake up.

And Paul, except for the deadlines in Rule #4, you can enter to your heart’s content. Sanchez and Gregorius may well be better choices than Judge and Stanton when all is said and done.;)

Nolan Ryan is probably over 4000.

[frankbmd]

Nolan Ryan is probably over 4000.

4430 for Ryan. Peter, your speculative post wasn’t that hard to verify. Do your homework.

Back in the fifties with roughly 4-5 Ks and 1 HR per game per team, the batters and pitchers would be more balanced.

In the dead ball era, the pitchers would prosper due to the paucity of dingers.

In the current game compared to the 50s, Dingers are up a bit, but whiffs have doubled, once again to the advantage of the pitchers.

[frankbmd]

I will enter my predictions in due time but for now I predict both judge and Stanton will make the Hall of Fame...With the Prerequisite that each please 15 seasons. Problem is Frank you have to live long enough to see this happen!

Peter, if they play 15 seasons with 200 strikeouts each per season, a plausible prediction, they would need 1000 home runs each to qualify for the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame.

Call me crazy, but I doubt that either of them will make it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

4430 for Ryan. Peter, your speculative post wasn’t that hard to verify. Do your homework.

Back in the fifties with roughly 4-5 Ks and 1 HR per game per team, the batters and pitchers would be more balanced.

In the dead ball era, the pitchers would prosper due to the paucity of dingers.

In the current game compared to the 50s, Dingers are up a bit, but whiffs have doubled, once again to the advantage of the pitchers.

The point, Herr Doktor, was why are you going on about two guys with 3000 when there is a guy over 4000. :)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Joe D. struck out 369 times in his career. One of the more remarkable stats ever IMO.

[frankbmd]

If you consider pitchers with basically the same rules with the signs reversed, the Dinger Whiff Number becomes a zero sum game. Pitchers would get +1 for a K and -4 for homerun allowed or a gopher ball.

By checking a couple pitchers, Walter and Randy (not your average Johnsons), we find that both dead ball Walter and modern Randy both had career Dinger Whiff Numbers over 3000. No batter has reached 2000.

Makes sense as there are many pitchers who strike out a lot of hitters that don’t hit many home runs. Therefore pitching criteria for the Dinger Whiff Hall of Fame have not been determined. If one wanted to find the tenth best pitcher in Dinger whiffs, his number would be comparable to 1000 for the batters considered Hall of Famers. I’m sure ‘stache could determine the tenth best pitcher faster than I, so I will wait for him to wake up.

And Paul, except for the deadlines in Rule #4, you can enter to your heart’s content. Sanchez and Gregorius may well be better choices than Judge and Stanton when all is said and done.;)

Currently with 18 pitching strike outs and 1 HR allowed, Ohtani has a PDW number (Pitching Dinger Whiff number) of 14. Combined with his BDW number would give him an overall Dinger Whiff number of 19.

As mentioned though in the modern game Pitching DWs tend to be strongly positive and Batting DWs tend to be strongly negative. Combining the two for an individual player is not fair, since Ohtani is the only player who would benefit. However as the season progresses, a pitching DW number list may be added.;)

[gopherfan]

As a Twins fan, I think Sano could have one of the most negative DW numbers this year. Currently at -10. 3 HR and 22 K's.

I was thinking that Dozier could have one of the higher positive numbers. Lots of cancellations, but he is at 9 so far. 4 HR and 7 K's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Currently with 18 pitching strike outs and 1 HR allowed, Ohtani has a PDW number (Pitching Dinger Whiff number) of 14. Combined with his BDW number would give him an overall Dinger Whiff number of 19.

As mentioned though in the modern game Pitching DWs tend to be strongly positive and Batting DWs tend to be strongly negative. Combining the two for an individual player is not fair, since Ohtani is the only player who would benefit. However as the season progresses, a pitching DW number list may be added.;)

There isn't that much variation in how many HRs pitchers give up I don't think so it's not all that meaningful in my opinion, just going to tell you who the strikeout leaders are for the most part.

[frankbmd]

There isn't that much variation in how many HRs pitchers give up I don't think so it's not all that meaningful in my opinion, just going to tell you who the strikeout leaders are for the most part.

Your words would comfort Robin Roberts, who yielded 505 dingers, leading the league four years in a row.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Make a list of the top 10 all time in Ks and dinger/whiffs. I bet they are quite close. Which would not be true at all for batters comparing HRs to dinger/whiffs.

[frankbmd]

Where’s my fly swatter?:D

[frankbmd]

Not Stanton
Not Judge
Just Didi

And a shout out to Cespedes with his 39 whiffs so far.

[gopherfan]

Miguel Sano has 5 HR and 35 K's. Tied with Stanton, and only 4 behind Cespedes.

[frankbmd]

Some impressive Whiff totals in April this year. Someone is sure to crack 200.

But who had between 11 and 18 whiffs in each of 15 consecutive seasons and over 10,000 plate appearances to boot?

[gopherfan]

Mookie Betts is looking good right now with 13 HR and 13 K's for a total of +39.

[Butch7999]

... But who had between 11 and 18 whiffs in each of 15 consecutive seasons and over 10,000 plate appearances to boot?

We woulda put money on Joe Sewell, but nope... (damn close, though).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Some impressive Whiff totals in April this year. Someone is sure to crack 200.

But who had between 11 and 18 whiffs in each of 15 consecutive seasons and over 10,000 plate appearances to boot?

Willie Keeler or Nellie Fox.

[frankbmd]

Willie Keeler or Nellie Fox.

Sort of correct, but Keeler had less than 11 whiffs a number of times. Keeler also had less than 10000 plate appearances. Keeler and Fox are quite similar to each other in batting talents though.

No one in today’s game is even close to them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fox's 1959 MVP with a slash line of 2/70/.306 seems a bit dubious to me.

[frankbmd]

Betts the best bet this week.

[Paul S]

Betts the best bet this week.
Gregorious not so much:(:(

[barrysloate]

Aaron Judge struck out 8 times yesterday in a doubleheader, I believe a new major league record. That is just brutal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Aaron Judge struck out 8 times yesterday in a doubleheader, I believe a new major league record. That is just brutal.

Joe DiMaggio once struck out 13 times in a SEASON. Remarkable.

[barrysloate]

I know Peter. There was a time when players took pride in making contact and not striking out. Today, they don't even care. They can strike out 150 times a season as long as they are still otherwise productive. It is among the most dramatic ways the game has changed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It looks to me like the OP has lost interest in his own thread.

[frankbmd]

It looks to me like the OP has lost interest in his own thread.

Hardly.

Monthly updates during the dawg days of summer seem sufficient.

Sabermetric scholars and riff raff will keep this important thread alive without my constant prodding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So who's ahead? Riff raff want to know.

[frankbmd]

Ramirez now leads Betts 45 to 43.

Judge and Stanton remain neck and neck at -19 and -24.

I think someone will strikeout 250 times this season.

Post #1 has been updated.;)

[clydepepper]

Joe DiMaggio once struck out 13 times in a SEASON. Remarkable.



IMO, much too much is made about how few strikeouts there were in previous eras or by previous hitters.

The approach to hitting, to pitching and to the game are all very different.

ONLY in the most general examination are those statistics in anyway comparable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What's different that it results in more strikeouts? We're not talking the deadball era in comparison, we're talking the 1930s in DiMaggio's case. One year he hit 46 HR and fanned 37 times, not like he wasn't trying to drive the ball.

[clydepepper]

What's different that it results in more strikeouts?


You're Kidding?

Where do I start?

1) with the advent of regular relief pitching, starters no longer pace themselves, and can, instead, use more power pitches later in their five or six innings...and conservatively 95% of them throw 95MPH with some regularlarity. Even their breaking pitches are faster than previous era's fastballs.

2.) Those same starters are replaced by specialized relievers tasked to face only three or even one batter...with the same all-out approach as the starters. And 95% of them also throw 95MPH regularly with several now topping triple-digits.

3.) George H. Ruth's contribution's to the game has taken over almost completely as the one true goal of every hitter. In that effort, strikeouts are now accepted, in bunches, as long as some eventually contact is the result. The best Contracts are now created at the sweet spot, not at the end of the bat.

4.) The advent of drastic defensive shifts used with full knowledge of the all-or-nothing hitting approach where hitters are, almost to a man, totally predictable. Gone are the days when hitters hit against the shift. Gone are those trying to be Tony Gwynn (mister 5.5) with all instead emulating the other San Diego native's approach in the 1948 World Series.


5.) Stadium walls are created to encourage all of this, being made just high enough to allow for heroic defensive efforts, while being close enough to allow many 'cheapies'.

6.) Sports channels' highlight reels are almost always headed by continuous homerun replays.

Peter- Is that enough?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Having checked the stats, home run totals are way up overall despite the much tougher pitching you reference. So I am thinking maybe the biggest factor is that batters are swinging for the fences much more and accordingly striking out more.

[clydepepper]

Having checked the stats, home run totals are way up overall despite the much tougher pitching you reference. So I am thinking maybe the biggest factor is that batters are swinging for the fences much more and accordingly striking out more.


During DiMaggio's 13 seasons there were only 19 100 strikeout seasons (3 by brother Vince).

In the last 10 seasons (2008 when Mark Reynolds set the record with 223 through last season), there have been 53 175 strikeout seasons; 20 of which were 195 or more; 10 with 200 or more.

During DiMaggio's career, 78 strikeouts would get you in the top 10 EVERY season, while Joey Gallo already has 85 this season.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not only are strikeouts much more common these days, they really weren't that many during DiMaggio's career and for a great hitter to have only 13 strikeouts in a full season, which outstanding, wasn't THAT outstanding given the state of the game back then. It would be comparable to maybe 60-75 strikeouts today.

[frankbmd]

During DiMaggio's 13 seasons there were only 19 100 strikeout seasons (3 by brother Vince).

In the last 10 seasons (2008 when Mark Reynolds set the record with 223 through last season), there have been 53 175 strikeout seasons; 20 of which were 195 or more; 10 with 200 or more.

During DiMaggio's career, 78 strikeouts would get you in the top 10 EVERY season, while Joey Gallo already has 85 this season.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that not only are strikeouts much more common these days, they really weren't that many during DiMaggio's career and for a great hitter to have only 13 strikeouts in a full season, which outstanding, wasn't THAT outstanding given the state of the game back then. It would be comparable to maybe 60-75 strikeouts today.


Contacting the baseball with a bat requires a modicum of talent regardless of the era. DiMaggio should not be belittled.

When Judge hits 100 homeruns and strikes out 500 times, you will be watching homerun derby, not baseball.;)

[barrysloate]

I think it's important to put the ball in play. Fly outs and ground outs often advance runners and score runs. It's a part of the game.

Strikeouts lead to nothing but killed rallies. Yes, I know home runs are way up, but IMO the sheer number of strikeouts are unacceptable. And I realize there are those who say it doesn't matter. That's fine. As a fan watching games , I find strikeouts boring.

[clydepepper]

I think it's important to put the ball in play. Fly outs and ground outs often advance runners and score runs. It's a part of the game.

Strikeouts lead to nothing but killed rallies. Yes, I know home runs are way up, but IMO the sheer number of strikeouts are unacceptable. And I realize there are those who say it doesn't matter. That's fine. As a fan watching games , I find strikeouts boring.


Good only for pitchers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2018/06/20/mlb-bad-baseball-attendance-strikeouts/718162002/

[frankbmd]

The Dinger Whiff Derby is heating up approaching the All Star Break. The 6/30 update is posted in the first post.

So far there are zero entries as the dead line approaches, but it's not too late.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Moncada has 10 HR and 116K. How is he not the leader on the negative side. Or are you not tracking that.

[frankbmd]

Moncada has 10 HR and 116K. How is he not the leader on the negative side. Or are you not tracking that.

Be both a leader and a loser, Peter.

Please track this for Dinger Whiff fans everywhere.

Great post!!!

[frankbmd]

Update posted through Friday’s games.

Ramirez is pulling away from the field, now leading Betts by 21.

Waiting for Judge or Stanton to make their move.

Judge leads Giancarlo by 10, but would need 26 HRs without striking out to tie Martinez for the current lead.

Both Judge and Stanton are closer to Moncado in last then they are to the lead.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Make a list of the top 10 all time in Ks and dinger/whiffs. I bet they are quite close. Which would not be true at all for batters comparing HRs to dinger/whiffs.

Blyleven is very high on career K and HR allowed lists Bet his dinger whiff ranking is considerably worse than his K ranking

EDIT: His DW is under 2k

EDIT #2: Blyleven is 5th on all time K list

4th is Carlton with a DW of 2480

6th is Seaver with a DW of 2120

So Blyleven at least moves down some from his K ranking

[frankbmd]

Blyleven is very high on career K and HR allowed lists Bet his dinger whiff ranking is considerably worse than his K ranking

EDIT: His DW is under 2k

EDIT #2: Blyleven is 5th on all time K list

4th is Carlton with a DW of 2480

6th is Seaver with a DW of 2120

So Blyleven at least moves down some from his K ranking


Remember that Dinger Whiff is a zero sum game for pitchers and batters.

For every Moncado out there, there is a pitcher with a healthy Dinger Whiff Number.;)

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL in 1986 Blyleven gave up 50 HR that's insane. His previous high was 24. And just to prove it wasn't a fluke he gave up 46 more in 1987. I like him well enough but I think the sabremetrics overrate him, no way IMO is he the 16th best pitcher of all time which is what Baseball Reference ranks him.

[frankbmd]

The season is over.

Jose Ramirez (39 HRs and 80 Ks) has a Dinger Whiff number of +76 so Jose wins the 2018 Dinger Whiff Crown.

Aaron Judge found out a fool proof way to avoid 200 whiffs this year by sitting out quite a few games (~40) in August and September. Stanton, however, will reach the over 200 plateau and remains in a close battle with Moncada for the league lead. Currently Stanton leads Moncada by one, 199 to 198.

Of course Aaron's HR total suffered as well with a mere 26 currently. You be the Judge. Recreation of the Yankee Maris/Mantle HR Derby of 1961 did not materialize with the addition of Stanton to Judge in the lineup.

Since there will be no Net54 winner in the inaugural Dinger Whiff Derby, its future for next season looks bleak. Don't despair though for the Rbioty Lottery is just around the corner.;)