3 random thoughts on Holsum Bread cards

[buymycards]

Hi, I was looking through my Holsum Bread cards over the weekend and I noticed 3 things. I would guess that there are Holsum collectors who are already aware of all of this, but I will forge ahead anyway.

The first thing is that the 1920's and 1921's are identified by size of the space between H. and Weil. The 1920's have a larger space than the 1921's, but it isn't just the space between the H. and the Weil that has a larger space. Each of the spaces between H. Weil Baking and Company are larger than the spaces on the 1921. (I know this is trivial, but it is interesting to me.)

The second thing is that the backs on the 1920's are oriented differently than the backs on the 1921's. The top card is from 1920 and the bottom card is from 1921.

The third thing is that I have wondered if players who were pictured in 1920 were also pictured on a 1921 card, or if these were two separate sets. I happened to run across 2 Bancroft cards on eBay - 1 from 1920 and 1 from 1921, so at least one player was printed in each of the sets.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-Holsum-Bread-D327-Rare-Type-2-Back-Dave-Bancroft-HOF-SGC-A/362141926742?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-Holsum-Dave-Bancroft-PSA-1-0812/132170577899?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Yes, I do lead a very boring life. :) Rick

[nolemmings]

http://www.oldcardboard.com//eNews/2014/enews117/eNews117.htm#2

Several players can be found with both Type 1 (1920; large space between H. and Weil, reads bottom to top) and Type 2 backs. Some have different poses and at least one--Hornsby, shows two different positions in his Type 1 card.

BTW I am always looking for nice front and back scans of these cards, for those generous enough to share.

[buymycards]

Hi Todd, thank you for the info.

My Holsum scans can be found here - http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=998

There is another pictures folder with my 1916 Weil Baking cards - http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=553 and 1917 Weil's - http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=997

Rick

[ValKehl]

I have Sam Rice cards with both the Type 1 and Type 2 backs. Unfortunately, I can't show pics of them until early February.

[Rhotchkiss]

Here is my only one. I am under the belief that this is the only known graded copy and I have been unable to find Cobb in this pose on other cards, regardless of back (although I am sure they exist). So I may be wrong but I believe this is 1920 only.

[rhettyeakley]

Rick, the differences you noted are the characteristics that distinguish the two sets (I think those were outlined in the article I wrote for Old Cardboard several years back). The two sets are completely different sets and should be viewed and checklisted as such.

I have been slowly cataloging the two sets for some time and currently have in my database 76 diff cards known with the Type 1 (or 1920) back and 55 different with the Type 2 (or 1921) back. Don't let this fool you, however, into thinking the Type 1 back is more common as it is not. There have been a few finds of 1920's that featured almost all different players while I have seen as many as 5-10 different of the same player with the Type 2 back.

I have been stockpiling the Holsum cards for many years and know of another collection that also has a fair number of cards. I would have to check but I think I have 85 different cards total between the back types.

[rhettyeakley]

Here is my only one. I am under the belief that this is the only known graded copy and I have been unable to find Cobb in this pose on other cards, regardless of back (although I am sure they exist). So I may be wrong but I believe this is 1920 only.

You are correct that is a 1920 Holsum card, he was switched to a throwing pose (the same as the E121 Series of 80) for the 1921 Holsum set.

The same pose on your Cobb was in the 1917 E135 Collins McCarthy/H801 Boston Store set. As are most of the poses in the 1920 Holsum Bread set.

[Rhotchkiss]

Thanks Rhett. I don't know much about these cards but lately have picked up
This Cobb and a few m101-4 Joe Jacksons. I really like the back variations - like t206, which is my favorite. But unlike t206, there doesn't seem to be too much info out there on these 1916-1922 cards (correct range?) other than what I can piece together in population reports. You know a good thread or any good resource?

[Steve L]

Thanks for pointing out the differences. My PSA graded Daubert is a Daubert 1921 Holsum Bread. Does anyone have a Jake Daubert 1920 Holsum Bread? I have problems posting photos from my iPhone and Nikon camera due to size of file (too many bits per photo) or I would post. I don't have a scanner.

[ValKehl]

Ryan, Rhett "wrote the book" on the many 1920-22 issues that closely resemble one another. His comprehensive article, which I refer to frequently, appears in Issue #26 of Old Cardboard Magazine. I believe a copy of this issue can still be purchased for a modest price from OC.
http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/BBC-index/articleSummaryDetail.asp?id=1269

[Rhotchkiss]

Oh man, thanks Val. Rhett, I am PMing you- would love s copy of that book

[ValKehl]

Oh man, thanks Val. Rhett, I am PMing you- would love s copy of that book

Ryan, sorry if I confused you, but the "book" I was referring to is Rhett's article on the OC Magazine.

[Leon]

Rick, the differences you noted are the characteristics that distinguish the two sets (I think those were outlined in the article I wrote for Old Cardboard several years back). The two sets are completely different sets and should be viewed and checklisted as such.

I have been slowly cataloging the two sets for some time and currently have in my database 76 diff cards known with the Type 1 (or 1920) back and 55 different with the Type 2 (or 1921) back. Don't let this fool you, however, into thinking the Type 1 back is more common as it is not. There have been a few finds of 1920's that featured almost all different players while I have seen as many as 5-10 different of the same player with the Type 2 back.

I have been stockpiling the Holsum cards for many years and know of another collection that also has a fair number of cards. I would have to check but I think I have 85 different cards total between the back types.

Great info and article, Rhett. Everyone should have a run of the OldCardboard Magazines.

.

[Rhotchkiss]

Admittedly OT, but not so far off -- a guy had 4 of these today at a small, local card show (Val - a show in Tysons Corner). Anyone seen/know of these? Apparently a handful of SGC-graded ones sold at Heritage a year ago (including a Wajo, again, Val?). Not that I know much at all, but I have never seen these backs.

Also, major concern that they reside in BVG flips? In my experience, vintage cards are in BVG flips bc they could not make it into PSA or SGC flips.

Thoughts?

[nolemmings]

Toughest of the 1917 issues by far. The card is legit.

[Rhotchkiss]

Interesting. A few of them are on eBay, but I can get them off eBay cheaper and directly from the owner. Ultimately, without an HOFer front, they are not my bag. But I am happy to put anyone interested in touch with this guy.

[calvindog]

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3093/2909244989_08bd15b69b_b.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3214/3057303008_b8c5722772_o.jpg

[Rhotchkiss]

Awesome Jeff! And that's what the other versions of this front pose look like.n

[ValKehl]

Ryan, I've also met the guy with the Merchants Bakery cards at No. Va. area shows. The few he has on eBay have been there for quite a while because they are grossly overpriced. Some, if not all, of the ones sold by Heritage were on eBay prior thereto - the WaJo was a BIN for something llke $7,000 or $7,500. FYI, I was the first under bidder on the WaJo card in the Heritage auction. I would like to find out where this card resides today, in the hope that its owner might be tempted to sell or trade it.