My experience with LOTG

[botport]

I recently won an auction from LOTG.
This is the Lot...

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=14067

After paying in a timely manner (check cashed by
AH on 12/10/17) and inquiring as to the status of my order.. I was told that my order had been 'misplaced or lost' and to 'wait a few days' while he looked into it. I waited...

Subsequently, I have since been told that the lot I rightfully won has been 'lost'. The explanation was .. ' I must have sent them to someone else' and 'Companies of all sizes make mistakes'...

On 12/28 (Thursday) Al told me that the Lot was 'lost' and that he would send a check out to me ''this week''....


Well as of today... 1/8.. no check and no cards... I still expect a check but why the hold up?

My name is Frank Horvath and I stand 100% by everything I've said here.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Thats a terrible experience. I wonder if that was a good price.

Anyway, i wont bid on any of their auctions or consign.

[Wite3]

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.

[ALR-bishop]

My experiences with LOTG and Al have all been great.

[botport]

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.



Great auction ? ... Does that mean losing buyers cards?

Sorry I disagree.

East coast snow... ok true... I am dealing with that also but have within the last 5 days confirmed deliveries from PA to MN and NJ.

[cincyredlegs]

I would not worry, Al will make it right. He runs a great auction and has always been a stand up guy. Keep in mind also, the east coast is getting crushed right now and the USPS has issued an advisory, so your check might be delayed.


+100000. Al is a great stand up guy. With the mail being slowed by the weather, it will be there any day. I am in Charleston, SC and we got hit with a snowstorm (worse in 30 years) and didn't get mail from Wed-Sat. Finally got mail today.

Mark

[Al C.risafulli]

My name is Frank Horvath and I stand 100% by everything I've said here.

I will also stand 100% by everything that Frank says here.

He won the lot in question, and paid very quickly. His check was deposited on December 10, and his order was pulled and put into the queue to be packed and shipped.

After not receiving any sort of tracking number, Frank reached out to me December 20 to inquire about the status of his order. Since I had no record of the order having shipped, I asked him for a couple of days to get to the bottom of it, and on December 28, I sent Frank an email advising him that I could not locate the package. Best I can guess, his cards were packed up with someone else's order and shipped to them in error. I offered him a full refund, and told him that he could have the refund in the form of a check or auction credit, whichever he would prefer (some folks like the credit).

Frank responded that he had no need for an auction credit because he'd never be bidding with LOTG again. I responded that I understood his frustration, took complete blame for the error, and DID say that "companies in every industry certainly do make mistakes occasionally."

I cut and mailed a check for the amount in full the following day, December 29.

This thread is, unfortunately, the first I am learning that Frank has not received his check, and once again, Frank, for that I apologize. I did cut the check, and I did mail the check, for the amount in full. Perhaps the combination of a holiday weekend and rancid weather in the Northeast is to blame for it not arriving at this point, so I will suggest we give it a couple of days, and if the check is not there by then I will stop payment on the check and PayPal you the money, and absorb all fees.

It is absolutely my goal to be 100% perfect in every transaction, with every lot and with every order. Sadly, despite the lofty goal, occasionally we make a mistake that is 100% in our control and we simply fall down. When that happens, we do our best to make it 100% right in every case.

I'll also stand 100% by everything I've said here.

Happy New Year, Frank, and everyone else as well.

-Al

[Kawika]

Some day when the sun sets for the last time on old Kawika my collection will be auctioned off by LOTG. (The catalog is going to be a corker). I trust Al like a brother. If it were me I would wait for him to make things right. He will.

[botport]

I will also stand 100% by everything that Frank says here.

I cut and mailed a check for the amount in full the following day, December 29.


-Al


I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

[Al C.risafulli]

I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

Sounds great. I'd be curious to see that myself, since the letter carrier picks up the mail from the box just outside this office every afternoon. If you post the check, which I hope you do, I'd appreciate if you'd obscure the bank account number.

-Al

[botport]

Sounds great. I'd be curious to see that myself, since the letter carrier picks up the mail from the box just outside this office every afternoon. If you post the check, which I hope you do, I'd appreciate if you'd obscure the bank account number.

-Al


I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread...

Ill block out all confidential info... Al

Frank

[brianp-beme]

I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives...

Frank, Al has proven to the vast majority of this board about his being a stand up auction house owner and person. You are treating him like he is the guy with socks on the floor holding up a superimposed T206 Wagner for sale.

You will find the board are overwhelmingly on his side. Sorry you have had some issues...stuff happens, and it is the true test of a man's character how they handle it.

Brian Park:er

[autograf]

I've bid in most all of Al's auctions and received everything timely. I think he came on the thread and agreed with everything you said, apologized, and continues to want to make it right. I guess, at what point will you be happy? Hopefully you'll get the check soon or take the PayPal and cut your losses. I've had issues with auction houses in the past too, but at some point, beating the dead horse doesn't make it deader. Hope it's cleared up in the next day or two for you. You seem like you don't believe that he's done what he said he had done......

[Snapolit1]

Great auction ? ... Does that mean losing buyers cards?

Sorry I disagree.

East coast snow... ok true... I am dealing with that also but have within the last 5 days confirmed deliveries from PA to MN and NJ.

I had an auction a few years ago where someone accidentally sent me the wrong card. Not LOTG. A more valuable card. I made it right. Took some time.
Sometimes things happen. No one is perfect.
As far as I know Al has one other person working with him. It it was a mistake, once you get your check you are in no worse position than you were the day before the auction started. I'd suggest taking a deep breath and calm down. Not saying I wouldn't be frustrated to but this will be made right.

[jefferyepayne]

I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread...

Ill block out all confidential info... Al

Frank

If you and Jake would like a list of auction houses that are run by people who have been in jail, defrauded little old ladies out of their retirement on TV, allow consigners to bid on their own items, have molested children, or are known to trim/soak cards, I'd be happy to send it to you so you can make sure you don't support the real criminals in this hobby either.

If the worse thing Al ever does is mistakenly put a lot in someone else's package and then makes it right, I think I can live with that.

Jeff Payne

[Eric72]

Frank, Al has proven to the vast majority of this board about his being a stand up auction house owner and person. You are treating him like he is the guy with socks on the floor holding up a superimposed T206 Wagner for sale.

You will find the board are overwhelmingly on his side. Sorry you have had some issues...stuff happens, and it is the true test of a man's character how they handle it.

Brian Park:er

Almost forgot about that guy. Hard to believe it has been so long.

[MVSNYC]

I’ve consigned and bid in every one of Al’s auctions since day one. Saying he’s top notch is an understatement. Sorry this happened to you, but he will work hard to make it right.

[botport]

I had an auction a few years ago where someone accidentally sent me the wrong card. Not LOTG. A more valuable card. I made it right. Took some time.
Sometimes things happen. No one is perfect.
As far as I know Al has one other person working with him. It it was a mistake, once you get your check you are in no worse position than you were the day before the auction started. I'd suggest taking a deep breath and calm down. Not saying I wouldn't be frustrated to but this will be made right.

PS. "My sad experience" is a tad melodramatic, no?


Steve.. I have always appreciated your comments, that's why I will respond to you. There is no need to 'take a breath' ... 'calm down' as you say... I've only relayed facts...

FH

[Eric72]

Add me to the list of Net54 members who have had nothing but positive experiences with LOTG. I am confident that Al will make this right.

[Snapolit1]

Steve.. I have always appreciated your comments, that's why I will respond to you. There is no need to 'take a breath' ... 'calm down' as you say... I've only relayed facts...

FH

I understand your frustration. It sucks when something doesn't go as it should. None of are in the hobby to get more aggravation in our lives.

But he is a good guy.

[Moonlight Graham]

Add me to that list as well-Al is the man. And he runs a great auction house too!!

Joe K

[Kenny Cole]

add me to the list of net54 members who have had nothing but positive experiences with lotg. I am confident that al will make this right.

+1000

[sycks22]

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.

[the-illini]

Al is one of the best people in the hobby and his auction house is as reputable as you will find. He clearly made a mistake but I would bet my collection on him doing right by it.

Chris Bland

[shagrotn77]

I don't agree with the OP starting this thread, but I'm glad he did. Anyone in the hobby who wasn't already familiar with Al can now read all the glowing things people have to say about him - things that are 100% true. There are, unfortunately, a lot of bad guys in this hobby. Al is absolutely not one of them.

[orly57]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

[botport]

Thank you.

FH

[conor912]

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.

This was my thought. How does this work? If you receive something that isn't yours and don't give it back, is it considered stealing?

Al, any clue as to which package it might have mistakenly been added to?

[glchen]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

[frankbmd]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

Hard to imagine that all the posters would feel the same if they were in the OPs shoes. Just sayin’.........

[ValKehl]

I, too, have consigned to and won cards in LOTG Auctions. Shit sometimes happens, despite the best efforts of good people. Al C. is good people!

[Rich Falvo]

Last year, I won a card on ebay from a dealer that also has a brick-and-mortar store. Apparently, the card was sold in the store before it could be removed from online. The seller kept me up to date on looking for the card and after a few days, I got a full refund. Was I frustrated? Of course. But, I wouldn't have then come on here and blasted the guy by name after he tried to do the right thing.

[botport]

.... and others....


appreciate your input...

[ramram]

Hope there isn’t a mailman with sticky fingers between the two locations.

Rob M

[unamuzd1]

I'm more concerned that if someone got extra cards in their package they never returned them to Al. I've only had great experiences with Al and his company.
11 extra PSA-slabbed t206 cards would be a little hard for the buyer to miss. They would also alter the weight of the package they went out in from what would otherwise be expected, I would think, by an amount that might make it possible to isolate to whom they could have been accidentally shipped. I'm sure Al's already looked into that, though.

I have bought from Al/LOTG in the past, and would do so again without hesitation. I'd be disappointed and frustrated if this were to happen with something I won, but as long as the seller made it right, it wouldn't be much different from losing by one bid. And I've done that lots. :)

[pokerplyr80]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

I agree with this. Also, the check cleared on the 10th, and the OP had to reach out 10 days later to inform the AH that his order hadn't been sent out. I would expect someone at LOTG to have been looking for these cards to send out before that. And after being informed it took another 8 days to get a response back? If this happened to me I would not be pleased.

I get that AL is well respected and one of the good guys in our hobby. But from what I've read in this thread this particular situation could have been handled better in my opinion.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Last year, I won a card on ebay from a dealer that also has a brick-and-mortar store. Apparently, the card was sold in the store before it could be removed from online. The seller kept me up to date on looking for the card and after a few days, I got a full refund. Was I frustrated? Of course. But, I wouldn't have then come on here and blasted the guy by name after he tried to do the right thing.

I have been on the awkward seller side of that equation twice. I have offered a full refund and 10% off their next purchase as an apology. While I understand being frustrated I gotta agree with Al. No company is perfect. I am much more interested in how a company (or person) rectifies their mistakes than I am in them being perfect.

Does it suck? Absolutely. But unless you suspect foul play (and there would be no reason not to ship you that lot for what you paid) are you really so perfect that you can't comprehend an innocent, honest mistake? If so I hope you never find yourself in the wrong!

[Steve D]

11 extra PSA-slabbed t206 cards would be a little hard for the buyer to miss. They would also alter the weight of the package they went out in from what would otherwise be expected, I would think, by an amount that might make it possible to isolate to whom they could have been accidentally shipped. I'm sure Al's already looked into that, though.

I have bought from Al/LOTG in the past, and would do so again without hesitation. I'd be disappointed and frustrated if this were to happen with something I won, but as long as the seller made it right, it wouldn't be much different from losing by one bid. And I've done that lots. :)



I'd concentrate on anyone else who won T206 lots in the auction. There were several lots in it. Start with the person who won the most cards (where 11 extra T206s were more likely to go unnoticed), and go from there.

Steve

[freakhappy]

Obviously, Al is well-respected by the members of this forum. It is also clear that anyone can make a mistake. But I don't think we need to belittle the OP's feelings here. I don't know how common or rare the card he purchased may be, but I think he has every reason to be angry that he's not getting the card he purchased. And getting his money back isn't going to change that. So while I think that the support for Al is wonderful, and extremely telling of the kind of guy he is, I don't think it's right to write-off the OP completely and make him seem irrational. I know I would be extremely angry if I bought a card and it was lost, and I know that some of Al's defenders here would be too. Maybe we need to stop treating issues as black and white, right and wrong, true and false. Al is a great guy. LOTG is an amazing AH. And the OP has every right to be pissed off.

+1

Although Al and LOTG are top notch, this situation seems to have been handled rather poorly. I have no doubt that Al will make this right, but he lost a customer in the process and it could've easily been avoided. I hope everything is resolved sooner rather than later

[brianp-beme]

+1

Although Al and LOTG are top notch, this situation seems to have been handled rather poorly. I have no doubt that Al will make this right, but he lost a customer in the process and it could've easily been avoided. I hope everything is resolved sooner rather than later

According to Al, 8 days after the customer inquired about status of the order, he was sent an email that the item could not be located, and that a refund would be issued. Perhaps this was longer than ideal, but it sounds like once the customer received this email, he decided to instantly state that he would not do business with LOTG again (which is certainly the right of any customer).

To me it seems like the customer is not of a forgiving nature, and perhaps is a little quick to pass judgement without willing to consider mitigating factors (AH is a 1 or 2 person business, mistakes happen, life getting in the way of responding promptly, weather affecting delivery of mail...I recently had a package I sent take almost 2 weeks to get to its destination, etc).

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

[freakhappy]

According to Al, 8 days after the customer inquired about status of the order, he was sent an email that the item could not be located, and that a refund would be issued. Perhaps this was longer than ideal, but it sounds like once the customer received this email, he decided to instantly state that he would not do business with LOTG again (which is certainly the right of any customer).

To me it seems like the customer is not of a forgiving nature, and perhaps is a little quick to pass judgement without willing to consider mitigating factors (AH is a 1 or 2 person business, mistakes happen, life getting in the way of responding promptly, weather affecting delivery of mail...I recently had a package I sent take almost 2 weeks to get to its destination, etc).

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

I'm a pretty forgiving person, so I most likely wouldn't have went the exact route as the OP did, but I'm not saying he's in the wrong here nor do I think Al and co run a bad auction house...I just think it could have been handled a little better and with a tad more urgency...it is what it is at this point.

[brianp-beme]

I'm a pretty forgiving person, so I most likely wouldn't have went the exact route as the OP did, but I'm not saying he's in the wrong here nor do I think Al and co run a bad auction house...I just think it could have been handled a little better and with a tad more urgency...it is what it is at this point.

I agree.

Brian

[philliesphan]

Sad to see this thread when I woke up today.

Also, as someone who works for an Internet company (and has for the past decade), it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences vs. simply picking up the phone and calling. Alas.

I think all companies make mistakes, and I am usually willing to give any company a one-time free pass. You've made a different decision, Frank, which is your prerogative.

From my perspective, I have consigned to (nearly every?) one of Al's auctions since the inaugural one many years ago. I consider Al to be both honest and hard-working. I have also spent many thousands of dollars across LotG auctions over the past few years, and always revel in amazement at some of the cool items that Al unearths and researchs to benefit the hobby and his consignors.

I consider him to be one of the good guys of the hobby, echoing what many others have said here. I don't think any AH will ever have a 100% satisfaction rate, and I'm sorry that you're unhappy with your experience. But I think it is important to note that your experience is a snowflake, compared to the blizzard of kudos that Al, Jeff and LotG continue to receive.

Marc

[toledo_mudhen]

and 1 more vote for Al is a stand up guy and does everything in his power to make things right.... from personal experience and stuff does happen.

[barrysloate]

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

[T205 GB]

Considering that the only AH I have ever received a package from in less than a week has been Sterling I personally think that the OP came here to slander Al, Jeff, and LOTG and should be liable for that. In the amount of time that this issue was handled in I am sure any of us would have been happy especially since its one of the larger Auction Houses. Does eBay not take just as long to settle a issue like this? The OP is probably pissed he didn't get the lot so he could resubmit for grade bumps and make money.

I consigned some cards to Sterling before Lee came to ownership. A tougher card was lost during the grading and it took almost 30 days to settle up. I allowed the AH to take every step possible to track the card down before I was contacted and just paid outright for the card based on market value. Now I could have came here and said all kinds of bad stuff but I can guarantee this is the first in 7 years this has ever been mentioned here. What I am saying is the OP and I will never have a transaction, and I truly hope LOTG auctions takes a stand since they did make it right in a timely professional manner.

[T205 GB]

If someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.

Barry I do hope that the person that received the cards returns them. Sadly we both know that this is not how a lot of people are anymore:(

[T206Collector]

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.

[Bpm0014]

....it always surprises me that folks think the "best approach" to dealing with customer service issues is to jump to social media to vent their frustrations and share their experiences

I don't even know Al, but couldn't agree more with the above statement.

[darwinbulldog]

We all have our faults, and I am willing to acknowledge mine is putting a colon in my full name.

Brian Park:er

Just don't try it the other way around.

[1952boyntoncollector]

If you and Jake would like a list of auction houses that are run by people who have been in jail, defrauded little old ladies out of their retirement on TV, allow consigners to bid on their own items, have molested children, or are known to trim/soak cards, I'd be happy to send it to you so you can make sure you don't support the real criminals in this hobby either.

If the worse thing Al ever does is mistakenly put a lot in someone else's package and then makes it right, I think I can live with that.

Jeff Payne

Lets see if someone goes forward and says they got his cards packed by mistake with their order and will return it....if they do, ill send them a T206 for free...not a good trade for them but better than nothing!

[1952boyntoncollector]

I agree with this. Also, the check cleared on the 10th, and the OP had to reach out 10 days later to inform the AH that his order hadn't been sent out. I would expect someone at LOTG to have been looking for these cards to send out before that. And after being informed it took another 8 days to get a response back? If this happened to me I would not be pleased.

I get that AL is well respected and one of the good guys in our hobby. But from what I've read in this thread this particular situation could have been handled better in my opinion.

right it only appears AFTER he started the thread is he getting 'action' Looks like he tried beforehand as well. Makes sense that he would post whats going on and he does say he 100% backs what he says and gives his name....what more can you ask for a buyer

maybe people will bid more on these auctions hoping to get extra goodies by mistake...

[packs]

I've never had the luck to win an LOTG lot but I've been a frequent bidder. I would be upset if this happened to me but I don't know what else could be done other than what the AH is doing.

It could always be worse. I won a card with a different AH and when the card was sent to the wrong address the AH made me wait for them to settle with USPS to get a refund on their insurance before they would refund me on the auction price, despite the fact that I had nothing to do with an insurance claim against USPS. I'll NEVER bid with that house again and am happy to share the name if anyone is interested.

[Bored5000]

Considering that the only AH I have ever received a package from in less than a week has been Sterling I personally think that the OP came here to slander Al, Jeff, and LOTG and should be liable for that.

Slander is something that is said orally, not written. Libel is when something defamatory is written. In either case, however, the statement(s) has to be false for slander or libel to apply.. Al came into this thread and said what the OP wrote was true regarding his winnings being lost. As far as the OP not receiving a check yet, how do you know it is not true?

That being said, I had a fabulous experience purchasing from LotG in the past and would not hesitate to do so in the future. Mistakes happen, although I understand why the original poster is upset.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/slander

[rainier2004]

So the situation sucks for the OP, paid, never got his lot which is what he really wanted.

I will also say that if you call Al he will talk to you. He will make things right and he will put the effort into running a professional business. Al has ben very clear both on the phone and on boards about him being a one man show which results in some longer times to ship. He hasn't hid this, lied or done anything but be straight up front about all this. He stays up all night monitoring the auction, creates all the invoices, packages the lots and mails them. This is called transparency and the hobby needs all of this it can get.

Patience is something we in the hobby could all use a little more of. Also directly dealing with the person in a private manner always seems to go a long ways to conflict resolution.

Like Jeff said, there are tons of felons, perverts, sex offenders and fraudsters involved in this hobby running AHs. To mu knowledge, Al is none of these...

We as people and collectors need to try harder to work things out IMO, no one is forcing anyone to spend their money. LOTG needs a little slack here, they run a professional business.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I can't believe some of the responses that I'm reading. There's this notion with a lot of Net54 members that if a "good guy" makes a mistake, they shouldn't be called out for it. I wouldn't have handled it the way the OP did, but I don't fault him either. He's waited a month since cleared payment and he doesn't have his cards or his money back. Is a month not a reasonable amount of time? If you purchased something on eBay and you still didn't have it a month after payment received, wouldn't you feel like the OP does? Maybe you would handle it differently, but I can almost bet that you would feel the same way. Being a "good guy" doesn't excuse you from making mistakes or getting called out for the mistake. I think it was an honest mistake, but the "he's a good guy, so we're on his side" has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this board.

[philliesphan]

David-

I think Al has accepted accountability, and no one here is giving LotG a "free pass" for making a mistake.

The overriding notion I keep coming back to - why didn't Frank pick up the phone and make a call instead of going to social media?

[packs]

People usually move quicker when others are watching.

[vintagetoppsguy]

David-

I think Al has accepted accountability, and no one here is giving LotG a "free pass" for making a mistake.

The overriding notion I keep coming back to - why didn't Frank pick up the phone and make a call instead of going to social media?

I agree, Al did accept accountability and handled the situation very professionally. But statements like "You will find the board are overwhelmingly on his (Al's) side" sure sounds like a free pass to me. The buyer did nothing wrong, but we're going to overwhelmingly take the sellers side? And I'm not picking on the person who wrote that statement or calling him out, there are many other similar statements.

People usually move quicker when others are watching. This. I recently had a similar situation as the OP, but I waited over 2 months for my refund. I was very patient, but I finally posted bad reviews on several websites, posted on my neighborhood website (it was a neighborhood business) and filed a complaint with the BBB. I got my refund check the very next day. So social media does work.

Let me repeat, I would have handled the situation differently from the OP, but we all handle different situations differently, But to take the side of the person who is in the wrong even if they do accept fault is absolutely mind boggling to me.

[pokerplyr80]

I sell groups of T206 cards on eBay every few years — I run up the mountain and then I sell, sell, sell. It’s apparently how I collect, I guess.

Anyway, when I sold a bunch of T206s on eBay this past summer, I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be. In addition, for the first time ever, I had two cases opened against me - one by a guy who was intent on a refund while also getting to keep my card (I won that case); and another by a guy who said a Beckett case cracked in shipping (I asked him to return the card for a full refund, he didn’t, he opened a case against me to ask for a partial refund and to get to keep the card - I settled that one, but have to say the evidence that the case cracked in shipping was not a compelling one).

Buyers seem to be jumping for help from third parties and social networks before trying to reasonably address easily resolved disputes. I have a whole new appreciation for what even the best auction houses must go through. Definitely not an easy gig. It would take outright fraud for me to air such grievances here.

Having said that, we live in the Yelp! world, with Amazon reviewers, and TripAdvisor experiences. That’s why these threads are so important today — you can leave a bad review, but if you have a great reputation this community will come immediately to defend you. If other collectors came out of the webisphere to share similar stories of lost shipments and delayed refunds, a different pattern would emerge than we’ve seen here.


I agree with both points here. There are a lof of ebay buyers out there that try to profit by submitting false claims and taking advantage of sellers. And review sites like yelp are ruined my millennials leaving bad reviews because an unreasonable request wasn't honored, or they were too easily offended.

However, in this specific case it seems the opposite is happening. Most of the replies I have read are from members quickly jumping to Al's defense because of his reputation. I mentioned earlier I would not have been pleased with the way this was handled and the delays had I been the buyer. In reading Al's response again the offer of compensation is also less than I would have hoped. A credit for a future auction for completely losing an order? My reaction to this would have been similar to that of the OP. Especially if this was my first experience with LOTG, or any auction house.

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

[Jay Wolt]

if someone received a lot he neither won nor paid for, he must return it. Al should have gotten a call from him the same day the cards were received.

Al is a stand up guy and the best in the business. The person who received the wrong lot apparently isn't. It wasn't a free gift.
+1000

[orly57]

One of the issues here is "what does it mean to be 'made whole?'" If you owe me $500 and repay it, I am made whole. If you owe me 11 t206s and simply refund what I paid, I am not made whole. I don't want the money. If I did, I wouldn't have spent it on 11 t206's. Unless the cards are found, which I suspect they will be, the OP will never be made whole. I think Jesse's idea of waiving BP on the next purchase is a way of, not only returning the money, but also acknowledging that a mistake was made. Merely returning the money shows no efforts to encourage future business, and makes it seem as if he's been made whole when he has not. Again, this is NOT a shot at Al or LOTG, but if we are having this conversation, then we should address the concept of being made whole and what steps a business should take to make up for mistakes if they intend to keep their Sterling reputation.

[botport]

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.

[botport]

As promised....

[timn1]

LOL, Glenn, you kill me...Just don't try it the other way around.

[brianp-beme]

Just don't try it the other way around.

Unfortunately I have, and what I found out is that my full name is partly made up of corn.

Brian (now you know me on a first name basis)

[OriolesHOF]

I understand the OP's frustration as I had a similar incident recently with Lelands. I was awarded lot #156, (2) 1941 Lou Gehrig Memorial July 4th Ticket Stubs, in their October auction. After having made payment and not receiving delivery information I called the auction house. I explained to the gentleman who answered the phone the reason for my call and he placed me on hold for several minutes. Upon returning, he indicated their system was down and he could not determine whether my item had been shipped. The following week, I called again and was transferred to a woman in the business office who explained to me the ticket stubs could not be found. Rather than accept an immediate refund I told her I'll wait one more week, maybe the tickets would reappear. The following week, I requested my refund and within two days it was received.

As for LOTG, Al C. is #1 in my book!

In keeping with the spirit of transparency and the rules, my name is Hal Taylor.

[Bored5000]

A more appropriate response would have been something like a full refund, and an offer to wave the buyer's premium on the OP's next purchase for the inconvenience. An honest mistake was made, and they certainly can happen to anyone. But something more should have been done to make this right.

I really like that idea. I have no doubt that the entire situation was just an honest mistake, but something like waiving the buyer's premium (up to a certain amount) would have been a really decent way of apologizing to the buyer. Seems like that would have been a way of keeping a customer instead of losing one, which is apparently what has happened.

[calvindog]

Like Jeff said, there are tons of felons, perverts, sex offenders and fraudsters involved in this hobby running AHs. To mu knowledge, Al is none of these...



I suspect Al is a pervert. Just a hunch.

[Frank A]

It all boils down to one thing. The buyer paid for the cards he won but never got them and I guess as of yet has not been sent a refund check yet. I don't care who the auction house is or how good a guy he is supposed to be, I would be pissed off. I hope the buyer gets this settled quickly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

[packs]

My advice to the AH and OP is to troll eBay over the next few months. All of the serial numbers are visible on the cards so if they come up for sale you'll know who has them.

[Exhibitman]

I can feel for both sides here, as I've been on both sides.

As a bidder/buyer I expect to get my winnings in a timely manner. I would definitely be disappointed if I did not. If the AH explained that something is lost and they are trying to track it down, I'd expect them to take a few days and do that. I had it happen to me recently where an eBay seller mixed up two sets of cards and sent my Brooklyn Dodgers TI set to the winner of the Yankees TI set and vice versa. I returned the Yankees set immediately. Asshat Yankees buyer kept my Dodgers cards (my set was more valuable and sold for more due to the # of HOFers in it including early Drysdale and Koufax cards). And it was the seller's fault, 100%. So I get the frustration, believe me; instead of adding a desirable Koufax to my collection I got a refund. But the seller took care of it. What burns me to this day is that some jerk kept the mistaken set.

As a seller, this has happened to me a couple of times with eBay lots. Each time I've had to go through my collection and storage, and the item was just misfiled or filed other than where I thought it should be. Only once has it gone completely AWOL. So I get allowing the seller a bit of time to find a missing item.

Now, in terms of Al's saintly nature, I am biased because he is my friend (heck, I camp at his table at the National), but let me give you all another story. I lost the check from my last consignment. I let Al know and he immediately cut me a replacement check. It took a week to get here: mailed on the 26th, arrived a week later. Weather and holidays. A little perspective is warranted here. The holidays and a bomb cyclone can really f*** up a business schedule and mails. If the check arrives shortly, I hope the OP will post the envelope and check here (sans ID info) to show when it was cut and mailed, as represented.

[h2oya311]

I’ve bought and consigned items with Al in the past. He was very fair when it came to an item I had consigned that was subsequently lost (before getting auctioned off). All it takes is an email and a little patience. I recall that his bank is a small little credit union or something to that nature, so checks aren’t always delivered expeditiously. If he said he issued you a refund, that’s exactly what he did.

Given the number of t206 collectors on this board, whoever decides to re-sell those cards that don’t rightfully belong to him, I hope this comes back to bite him in the a$$.

Also, imagine if you were in Als shoes and trying to find the missing cards. I’d much rather wait as long as possible to find them (and hope a person came forward with the extra cards) and later send them along to the buyer with an apology / auction credit for the delay. The alternative would be to issue a refund and have to re-run the cards at auction if they came back later (assuming the buyer no longer wanted them). If said cards then sell for $700, now you’ve got an angry consignor if you don’t make him whole as well. What a mess!

That said, while I wouldn’t go about things the way the OP did, I certainly can see his POV, especially if this is a first-time xp with LOTG. Hopefully the comments made by board members will quell any fears you may have that you won’t be getting the refund you deserve. You will.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

If Al mistakenly sent all of the 11 PSA cards as one group to one other person he could check all his shipping receipts for package weights from the last auction and determine who he sent the cards to. Cards in PSA holders weigh approximately 1.7 oz.
1.7x 11 = Over 1 pound of cards! :D

[vintagetoppsguy]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH?

I very rarely sell on eBay anymore, but I did sell a few items last week. I mail all my items in person at the post office. I'm looking at the postal receipt right now and it lists the weight of each package on the receipt. I know auction houses probably use a different postal software, but does it capture the weight of the package anywhere? You have to figure 11 graded cards is significant weight and I would be looking for a package that was shipped that weighed more than it should have. Anyway, just a thought.

Edited to add: Charlie and I were thinking the same thing at the same time. :D

[T205 GB]

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

[Chris Counts]

"I have to say that the tone of the buyers was much different than it used to be ..."

Perhaps it is simply a reflection of a world obsessed with social media and immediate gratification, but I, too, am surprised by how quickly some folks go into public intervention mode. I've had a couple buyers open disputes without even asking me to resolve their issues. Last year I bought something off eBay that was incorrectly sent to another eBay buyer's home. I received the other buyer's item, so I simply mailed it to him. But my package was inadvertently sent to the other buyer's summer home, so I had to wait a few months until the snow melted until I got my item. I was disappointed by the wait, but it passed quickly ...

[glchen]

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

No its not the equivalent of leaving negative feedback and IMO its more on the lines of slander/liable(what ever you want to say). All your sniffling and whining and not once did your sorry ass take into consideration that the AH not only had to pay you back what you spent, they lost a consignment, and they now will have to pay the consignee what you paid also to settle up on that side. This also goes to the guys that think more compensation is due! Put the shoe on your own foot and wear it then see what song you play.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


Al made this right and for you(in a very timely manner) compared to any other auction house out there. Ask Brian or Rob how REA would have handled this. I am willing to put money on it that you would still be waiting for everything to take its due process(as it should) and had you came on here about them you probably would be getting it a lot worse! Then you come here sniffling and whining like a "millennial crybaby that didn't get his way" as someone said earlier. Be a fucking man, pull up you panties, and move on! If this is a "HONEST MISTAKE" as you say then why do you continue dragging Al/LOTG through the coals? Crucify you? For a mistake that can have volumes of repercussion against LOTGA. You must have lost your ever loving mind somewhere.

Andrew, I've only have had good experiences with Al and LOTG. However, the OP has not been made "right" yet, as he has still not received his refund check. And what he's said is obviously not slander or libel since Al has admitted to everything that the OP said. You've come closer to slander/libel with your statements than the OP has.

[oldjudge]

I think it is unanimously agreed that Al is a good guy. However, my sense is that Al is struggling as a one man band in NJ to do all the jobs necessary to run a mid size auction, especially one putting out a nice catalog. If economics allow, Al might be well served to add an employee in NJ to help with the day to day tasks which would free Al up to do more consignment hunting.
Also, on a side note, Derek's post raises an interesting point. One of his consignment lots was lost before being auctioned off. At that point he was offered a settlement price for that lot. Al was fair and Derek was sayisfied. However, It is not always the case that a consignor will walk away satisfied if an event like that occurs. For higher value consignments consignors should consider stipulating individual insurance values for each lot and include these figures in the consignment agreement. That way if a lot is lost the consignor need not rely on the fairness of the auction house. In general, consignors need to read the consignor agreement, attempt to strike out terms they view as objectionable, and remember that everything is negotiable; the consignor agreement is just the auction houses' first offer.

[Frank A]

Andrew: Learn the facts before you make a dumb ass post. No one has made good yet. The guy is pissed. I don't blame him. Frank

[orly57]

1. Slander or libel is only applicable when what you are alleging is false. Since Al verified it to be true, it is neither slander nor libel.
2. Calling him a whiner or crybaby and telling him to put his pants on, or whatever caveman comment you made, only shows your lack of objectivity here.
3. If you can have empathy for one side, why can't you have it for the other? I personally think it's unfortunate for both sides. The OP appears to be a decent guy, and we know Al is beloved.
4. If you bought a nice card or cards and they were lost, I doubt you would handle it very well. I don't know you, and won't judge you by one post, but the tone of your post belies a man who is less than understanding, and who would flip his lid were one of his precious t205s lost by a business whose job it is to sell and deliver those items.
5. Unfortunately, we live in a political climate where we are forced to take sides. A climate where you are either with us or against us. A climate where miles of gray area are overlooked for the few inches of partisan territory. It's rather sad. And it is particularly sad when it spills over into a forum of guys who all share the same passion, and should ostensibly, understand and help eachother out.

[calvindog]

Who the hell gets 11 cards they didn't win or pay for and makes no effort to contact the AH? The rest of this will be worked out between the OP and Al and my guess is with no hard feelings for the future, but if someone is just keeping the cards as a bank error in their favor that truly sucks.

I was mistakenly sent a pair of sneakers via an ebay buy about a year ago. I received them and sent them back asap. The seller sent me some money via paypal to cover the shipping. He told me that he was stunned I returned the $150 sneakers.

[orly57]

Yeah Jeff, but let's be honest, if they were Big Baller Brand or even the right size.....

[Fred]

What are you saying Orlando? Are you saying that if the sneakers were the right size that, not only would Jeff had kept the shoes, he'd also have kept the money for the return shipping of the sneakers.... :p

[conor912]

For higher value consignments consignors should consider stipulating individual insurance values for each lot and include these figures in the consignment agreement.

You mean they're not already?! I've never consigned to an auction house and never read a consignment agreement, but there's no way I'd ever hand someone something of value without the approximate market value and clear steps to be taken and payout to be received from said AH if it "goes missing". That's just crazy to me and would think it leaves both sides open to a world of heartache.

[T205 GB]

Andrew, I've only have had good experiences with Al and LOTG. However, the OP has not been made "right" yet, as he has still not received his refund check. And what he's said is obviously not slander or libel since Al has admitted to everything that the OP said. You've come closer to slander/libel with your statements than the OP has.

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

[drcy]

Yeah Jeff, but let's be honest, if they were Big Baller Brand or even the right size.....

BBB doesn't allow returns or exchanges.

[conor912]

Unfortunately, we live in a political climate where we are forced to take sides. A climate where you are either with us or against us. A climate where miles of gray area are overlooked for the few inches of partisan territory. It's rather sad. And it is particularly sad when it spills over into a forum of guys who all share the same passion, and should ostensibly, understand and help each other out.

This.

[orly57]

No. It's worse. I'm saying Jeff Lichtmann has the missing t206s. (And that would be an example of libel)

[Bpm0014]

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.


I couldn't agree more with BOTH of your posts. And your 1st amendment statement. No need to run LOTG's name through the mud because of one simple mistake IN WHICH THEY AGREED TO CORRECT IN A FAIRLY TIMELY MANNER.

[calvindog]

Yeah Jeff, but let's be honest, if they were Big Baller Brand or even the right size.....

They were not only not the correct size, but they were bright red. Literally circus shoes.

[T205 GB]

4. If you bought a nice card or cards and they were lost, I doubt you would handle it very well. I don't know you, and won't judge you by one post, but the tone of your post belies a man who is less than understanding, and who would flip his lid were one of his precious t205s lost by a business whose job it is to sell and deliver those items.


You must have missed the hieroglyphics I made in a post in regards to the same happening to me just above^:D. Thing is I was not pissed. I let The AH owner handle the issue and was compensated for what the card was worth. It took way longer than week or two to settle. If you PM me I would be happy to share the person and AH to contact if you need to validate my story. Problem is instead of letting it be he kept making comments about how he was done so wrong. Al isn't going to tell the OP to Piss off but I sure the f^ck can. There are not many people in this Hobby I would take a lashing for but I guarantee you the ones I would do it for is because of who they are to me.(Not related to Al BTW)

[vintagetoppsguy]

Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything.

It's not settled until the OP receives cleared funds. A promise to pay does not equate payment. I sold an eBay item that ended 1/1/18 and sent the buyer an immediate invoice. A week goes by and nothing. I sent him another invoice. Nothing. On the eighth day, I sent him a message and asked if he still wanted the item. Below is his response. So by your logic, my buyer's promise to pay is the same thing as payment? I can cancel the NPB claim? Go ahead and ship the item too? :rolleyes:

I don't doubt Al sent the check when he said he did. But mail gets lost. Checks don't always clear. You get the point? When the OP has the cleared funds in his bank account, then and only then has he been made whole.

[T205 GB]

They were not only not the correct size, but they were bright red. Literally circus shoes.

Did you get a pic? Please say yes!

[orly57]

Since my posts fall on deaf ears anyway, I'm just posting this one to get my 700th post.

[T205 GB]

It's not settled until the OP receives cleared funds. A promise to pay does not equate payment. I sold an eBay item that ended 1/1/18 and sent the buyer an immediate invoice. A week goes by and nothing. I sent him another invoice. Nothing. On the eighth day, I sent him a message and asked if he still wanted the item. Below is his response. So by your logic, my buyer's promise to pay is the same thing as payment? I can cancel the NPB claim? Go ahead and ship the item too? :rolleyes:

I don't doubt Al sent the check when he said he did. But mail gets lost. Checks don't always clear. You get the point? When the OP has the cleared funds in his bank account, then and only then has he been made whole.


James I do agree on your issue via eBay but we are talking about Al here. For fucks sake every person that has ever met the guy knows if he said your checks in the mail it is there. There is probably only 1 person on the board that thinks otherwise. So yes if Al called me and said my money was sent I would consider the deal done and closed! I would do the same with most guys here that I have known for a while also. Apples to Oranges comparison IMO.

[pokerplyr80]

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

Slander and libel are easily and often confused. Slander and liable? Not so much.

I'm not an attorney so to those who are please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the truth is an absolute defense to either one.

Also, the OP didn't receive what he paid for and didn't even get his money back. "The check's in the mail" is not the same as being made whole by any definition that I'm aware of.

[T205 GB]

Since my posts fall on deaf ears anyway, I'm just posting this one to get my 700th post.

Sorry can you repeat that:confused: I once had a EO go of to close to my head and am half deaf and brain damaged anyway.

Congrats on the 700 Club!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

James I do agree on your issue via eBay but we are talking about Al here. For fucks sake every person that has ever met the guy knows if he said your checks in the mail it is there. There is probably only 1 person on the board that thinks otherwise. So yes if Al called me and said my money was sent I would consider the deal done and closed! I would do the same with most guys here that I have known for a while also. Apples to Oranges comparison IMO.

Nobody is questioning Al's character. My point is that checks do get lost. If a consignment can get misplaced, why can't a check? My point is still the same. It's not settled. It's agreed upon, but it's definitely not settled - not until the OP has cleared funds in his account.

[botn]

Not sure there is a guy in the hobby who has more integrity than Al. He is as honest as they come. I have complimented him many times about many aspects of his company, especially with his write ups and the overall presentation on his site and the catalogs. In a short time, and for good reason, he has become a respected auction house and with each auction being stronger than the previous, consignors know they can rely on him to get the job done. I have always looked forward to his auctions despite having an issue with a lot I won where I feel adequate disclosure was not made.

There have been two occasions where I did not get lots shipped to me that I had won and one of those times I received items that I had not won. In both instances I ended up getting what I paid for and items which did not belong to me where promptly returned to Al. I will admit I was a bit taken aback by how laid back Al was both times with regards to the shipping snafu. When I have made shipping errors to buyers on eBay I have always gone out of my way to make it right for the inconvenience my error.

I write this not in an attempt to beat up on Al but to reaffirm what Jay suggested--Al needs some help on shipping which I suspect would also help address the frequent longer than expected shipping delays. Nothing worse than winning and then having to wait weeks to take delivery.

[Stampsfan]

... In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.


A few things cross my mind in reading this.

1. You're likely not one of the cool kids in the schoolyard, so you have less credibility that LOTG. Unfortunately some folks have immediately jumped on you, based on LOTG's reputation (and your lack of one).

2. I bid in a lot of auctions, but I don't know if I ever have from LOTG. Therefore I don't have a lot of experience with Al. I do know LOTG is one of the cool kids, as there are plenty of positive comments about Al and the company he runs. Therefore when I opened this thread, I was somewhat intrigued as to the issue.

3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

4. Maybe someone else doesn't have the cards, and Al's dog ate them, or the cleaning crew stole them, or they were thrown out with a bunch of other garbage he had.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

[TUM301]

Paging Sgt. Hulka, Sgt. Hulka to the front of the store please.

[botport]

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

[T205 GB]

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

Glad to hear it was sorted out. Best wishes to your future endeavors. Maybe just a titch more patience. Then again you can tell me to f*** off for the grief I gave you also. Either way glad to hear it's all settled.

[botport]

I think you are a piece of shit.

But that is another thread for another day.

Frank Horvath.

[7nohitter]

Frank,

Very glad to hear that Al found the cards, and an incredible offer for him to let you keep the refund...also a great move on your part not to take it since the card were found.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Maybe just a titch more patience.

Seller received cleared payment 12/10 and has been sitting on them for a month now. Yeah, maybe just a titch more patience. Clearly he should have waited two months. :rolleyes:

Whether you agree with the OP's methods or not, it worked. Period. I really don't think he would have received his cards if not for this thread.

That's not a knock against Al, I truly believe it was an honest mistake. But the squeaking wheel gets the grease.

[autograf]

well, that de-escalated in one way and re-escalated in another...........

Congrats to all in the loop who are not dicks who are now made whole..........

[T205 GB]

I think you are a piece of shit.

But that is another thread for another day.

Frank Horvath.


Well you know how to start a thread so fire away cupcake!

[T205 GB]

Seller received cleared payment 12/10 and has been sitting on them for a month now. Yeah, maybe just a titch more patience. Clearly he should have waited two months. :rolleyes:

Whether you agree with the OP's methods or not, it worked. Period. I really don't think he would have received his cards if not for this thread.

That's not a knock against Al, I truly believe it was an honest mistake. But the squeaking wheel gets the grease.

You gotta be ignorant. He wouldn't have got the cards if not for being outed and and drug through the mud publicly but it's not a knock against Al. Your a tool dude!

[doug.goodman]

I would think that this thread shows that Al is "one of the good ones".

And Frank get's a thumbs up in my book, too.

If I had been the OP, I would change the title of the thread to :

"My sad happy experience with LOTG"

[vintagetoppsguy]

You gotta be ignorant. He wouldn't have got the cards if not for being outed and and drug through the mud publicly but it's not a knock against Al. Your a tool dude!

LOL! I'm ignorant? Aren't you the one who for years now has been talking about some secretive computerized card grading technology? You're so full of crap and everybody knows it. So, when can we expect to see this new technology? Don't tell me, it's a secret, right? :rolleyes:

[Neal]

Your wrong IMO. The OP has been made aware of what happened and as per Al there is a check mailed correct? Just because the OP has not received his check yet he came here and started to state his case that had actually been settled already but was impatient and didn't make any more calls or anything. I don't care if Al or Jesus himself admitted fault. I 110% believe that the OP should be liable for what he posted about LOTG. Plus not a single one of us knows whether or not the person that got the cards has actually received it yet anyway. Come on guys stop splitting hairs here.

As far as me and the slander or liable.... well I JDGAF. I am not going to hold my opinion back for someones feelings. Anyone that has ever met me knows this. Some people are just to sensitive. The issue here is I am practicing my "1st amendment rights". Just like burning a flag in the streets is legal and blocking off a major highway is also apparently. Just ask BLM supporters and Millennials.

libel? or held liable .....

[Neal]

A few things ....

1) I'd be upset if I did not receive the cards
2) I would have called Al - a reasonable, completely professional guy

that said, I find it humorous that the OP is getting ripped a new one. Undeserving imo

carry on

[OriolesHOF]

Approximately 380 more posts to surpass the infamous T206 Ty Cobb Red Background Lenox back thread!

[packs]

The OP told a story that was confirmed by the person the story was about. You have to tell a lie to defame someone.

[Yoda]

I consider Al to be scrupulously honest, trustworthy in all regards, and a good personal friend. And wouldn't it be nice if the card in question is returned to Al and the original deal successfully completed.

[Yoda]

I should have read prior posts and delighted cards have been found. Now can we all shake hands and be friends.

[1952boyntoncollector]

A few things cross my mind in reading this.



3. I don't think either party is a dick, but it is possible that two parties have a different expectation of what is reasonable. And that's OK. Right now we are gutting our kitchen, and I am having an issue with the cabinet guys to the tune of $500 (which is not much given the $12,000 worth of cabinets we are putting in). Neither of us are being dicks, but we are not agreeing as to the proper resolution.

5. People, if you're gonna post legal opinions on a situation, learn the difference between "liable" and "libel". Otherwise you look like the doofus.

You do realize cabinets are just boxes........baseball cards are just card board....now if baseball cards were cardboard boxes we would be on to something..

[1952boyntoncollector]

I just got off of about a 20 min phone conversation with Al. Time to fall on my sword.

He has located the cards. Al even offered to (vehemently) let me keep the reimbursement check that should arrive any day. (See post #1)
I denied this request and will hold check until cards arrive, then destroy it.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended by starting this thread, especially Al.

I will post further updates if anyone feels that an update is necessary.

Frank Horvath

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

[T205 GB]

LOL! I'm ignorant? Aren't you the one who for years now has been talking about some secretive computerized card grading technology? You're so full of crap and everybody knows it. So, when can we expect to see this new technology? Don't tell me, it's a secret, right? :rolleyes:

No it's never been a secret. It's not some top secret government conspiracy. Go and read the threads. There is quite a bit of detail out there about it. Ask away. Your a hobbiest and the scanner is being built around the ideas of what you all want to see. Yes it's an elaborate contraption so to speak but in the years I have been messing with stuff technology has advanced tons. Makes it easier to build more information into it. That's where most the time is spent. The scanner itself is just a high resolution scanner that takes both sides at once, has a led black light adapted for second pass scans. Then the programming takes over and gives a topographic like map of the surfaces. From there you get the screen enter the info, specify the grade, and barcode it with one of those square tool scanners. Once we enter it into the registry the card will always have its unique qualities. Crack and submit 100 times. Trim it if you want. You can't ever remove the fingerprint like data that got pulled during the scan. I also want to include those scans with the pop reports so people can pull up a card if they are suspicious. Hell switch it out with a different card. Once we confirm that it's not the correct card for the holder we delete it from the registry making the label void. Say in ten years that card comes back through we will add it back to the report as an updated card. Then you can always tell what has and hasn't been tampered with. That's the idea anyway.

[Jacklitsch]

1952...

That post confirms everything I've heard about you.

[Fred]

Slander!
Libel!
Defamation of character!

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-slander-libel

Jesus de Christo.... WTF....

Just want to say I've got nothing but good to say about LOTG. Shit happens, it's not like LOTG planned this or even wanted this. Same goes for the OP, I'm sure he'd rather just have the cards.

So, if I were to call Leon (our gracious moderator) the king of the terds, is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a violent axe murderer, (even though he isn't, well I don't think he is) is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) a thief that stole my collection of cards (even though he didn't), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else?

What if I were to to call Leon (our gracious moderator) an egotistical douchebag piece of shit and can surpass Donald Trump on the idiot scale (even though we know he's a mild mannered moderator), is that slander, libel, defamation of character or something else? In that case I'd say that's probably all of them....

Let's all lighten up a bit - this situation sucks for both LOTG and Frank. What's going to be really sad is if the check never reaches Frank because it was somehow destroyed or lost by the postal service. Sorry, I'm going to believe that LOTG sent out the check because that's just the way it sounds like Al does business.

Frank, the way it sounds, the last communication you had with Al was on 28DEC17. Is that correct? If so, that would have been 10 days before you made this post. Personally, I'd have contacted Al again before I made a post like this. If things work out the way most of us predict, then you're going to feel like a dick (oh crap, is that slander, libel or defamation). Really sorry to hear about the bad experience, for both you and Al.

In any case, congratulations to Orlando on his 700th post and hoping that this thread will soon die out so we can all get back to thinking that Leon is a gracious moderator rather than any of the things mentioned or indicated in this post.....

[Fred]

Oh, it's over.... that's what I get for not reading EVERY frigging post....

[Fred]

Finally got to the part where Frank posted about a resolution. Gotta give you props, you did the right thing with an apology to Al. Kind of sucks to be in that situation (both you and Al). Does that mean you'll be bidding in future LOTG auctions? If so, then darn it, one more person to bid against.... ;)

[Sean]

No. It's worse. I'm saying Jeff Lichtmann has the missing t206s. (And that would be an example of libel)

Only if it isn't true. :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

I get slandered. Libeled. I hear words I never heard in the Bible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not sure why he would want you to keep the reimbursement check. Some may say thats like a payoff. If didnt take that long to resolve like everyone is saying why offer that.....heck could of given a 25 dollar credit on next auction if making a normal gesture etc....hmm..

Huh?? It's pretty obvious why. Payoff?

[judsonhamlin]

And Al is just trying to keep the customer satisfied

[RedsFan1941]

before the cards are shipped out, they should be reslabbed with a Fra.nk Anth0ny Find pedigree.

[brianp-beme]

Glad that it sounds like things will work out, and I admit that the OP had a legitimate gripe in being left in the dark for 8 days after being informed that the cards were in hiding. There were two postings from the OP that rubbed me the wrong way, however, after Al politely agreed with his various statements about the situation:

"I will scan a copy of the envelope and postmark to this thread when it arrives..."

"I wish you were as concerned for me receiving my winnings as you are with this thread..."

I typically stay out of posting in threads that stir things up, as I have spent decades in this hobby enjoying it at my relatively low level as a hobby and source of relaxation. But when someone that is so obviously good for the hobby, as Al has become in his capacity as an auction house owner, is being treated like he can't be trusted at his words, or that he has to prodded to make things right, well, it just stuck in my craw.

All has been made right in the universe, so carry on...may life proceed as it did in the time before best by dates on perishable items, when you had to decide on when to throw things out based upon the amount of dust on the packaging.

Brian

[orly57]

before the cards are shipped out, they should be reslabbed with a Fra.nk Anth0ny Find pedigree.

Shut it down. Thread over. Just perfect.

[bobbvc]

Well, I saw the first couple posts on page one. Jumped to the last page (13 at the time) to see how it turned out, and safe to say will not be reading pages 2-12.

[frankbmd]

I get slandered. Libeled. I hear words I never heard in the Bible.

And you’re not deserving???

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Huh?? It's pretty obvious why. Payoff?

This and other nefarious activity will be exposed in the soon to be released "Al Dossier" :eek:

[Peter_Spaeth]

And you’re not deserving???

May I recommend the sounds of silence.

[egbeachley]

Glad that it sounds like things will work out, and I admit that the OP had a legitimate gripe in being left in the dark for 8 days after being informed that the cards were in hiding.

Not sure why that's seems like a long time to many. 2 business days before the Christmas Holiday and 2 business days after. Good chance employees took a few days off making research difficult. Not to mention how long it may have taken to get some returned calls if he inquired with other buyers.

[brianp-beme]

Let's just say after receiving a PM from the OP, he has been put on my ignore list (what a great feature)...life is too short to have to deal with a person who would suggest a certain body part of his be stuck in my craw. Eww! Gross!

Brian

[Al C.risafulli]

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I’ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I’ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I’ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that’s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank’s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer’s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we’ve shipped about 15,000 different lots – and as much as I’d love to say we’re batting 1.000, it’s probably more like we’re batting .995. And while it’s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn’t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense – or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake – by commenting that my company is a “one man show.” I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I’m super appreciative. But what’s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now…on to the next auction. We’ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we’ve ever had. I’d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

[icollectDCsports]

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I’ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I’ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I’ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that’s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank’s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer’s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we’ve shipped about 15,000 different lots – and as much as I’d love to say we’re batting 1.000, it’s probably more like we’re batting .995. And while it’s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn’t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense – or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake – by commenting that my company is a “one man show.” I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I’m super appreciative. But what’s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now…on to the next auction. We’ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we’ve ever had. I’d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

You're a good dude, Al. If anything, this discussion has only served to show how honorable your business is.

[Steve D]

You're a good dude, Al. If anything, this discussion has only served to show how honorable your business is.

+1

Steve

[clydepepper]

I won a nice Matty in the most recent LOTG auction. I had to wait a few days to mail my check, but did so before the deadline. When I had not heard anything, I tried to contact Al, but had to leave a message. He was finally able to catch me at home and informed me that he had, indeed, received my check...but I had forgotten to sign it :eek:

He was very understanding and patiently awaited my signed replacement check.

I call that outstanding customer service! My card arrived the day before my birthday.

Thanks Al...and Happy Birthday to Me!.

[Jim65]

To me, good customer service is not whether a company makes mistakes, its how they deal with those mistakes. I've never dealt with LOTG but I will check out their auctions now after reading their comments here.

[Jason]

QUOTE: I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards.



He must have won a fair number of lots if he had to review his invoice to see he had 11 extra T206 slabbed cards. I think that sort of thing would stand out by just opening the package and looking at the cards.

[iowadoc77]

To me, good customer service is not whether a company makes mistakes, its how they deal with those mistakes. I've never dealt with LOTG but I will check out their auctions now after reading their comments here.

This is said very well. We all make mistakes and the measure of our character is our reaction to those mistakes.

[1952boyntoncollector]

1952...

That post confirms everything I've heard about you.


which post there were a few. You the only one that seemed to comment on the mystery post. My posts just observations you can agree or disagree. I didnt start the thread..


It could be a great auction house but he did ship the wrong cards. Also Al (correct me if im wrong) said in his post that he was fine with the buyer starting the thread. So comments on it are natural. It it also my understanding it appears the Al had no idea where he sent the cards too until someone who read the thread told him they got the cards and Al also offered the buyer the cards for free (he offered to reimburse and buyer can still get the cards) I wonder at what price he would of allowed that too ie $700, $1000?

Anyway, im glad it got resolved and not saying any auction house is the worst or dishonest. Measures were taken to resolve everything. Thats great. Maybe what was going on behind the scenes would of been more transparent if an auction house posted here to try to find out where the cards were instead of a the buyer. It seemed the auction house was fine in just returning the money instead of tracking down the cards which is what the buyer wanted more than his money back. It did work out that way, thanks to the buyer starting the thread on net54.

Again, thats my observation. and anyone is free to correct me if i am wrong.

[the-illini]

which post there were a few. You the only one that seemed to comment on the mystery post. My posts just observations you can agree or disagree. I didnt start the thread..

Not Steve but I would guess he is referring to your wondering if there was something nefarious involved with LOTG offering to essentially let the OP have his winning lot for free...

[Jacklitsch]

Chris is correct.

[vintagewhitesox]

If you and Jake would like a list of auction houses that are run by people who have been in jail, defrauded little old ladies out of their retirement on TV, allow consigners to bid on their own items, have molested children, or are known to trim/soak cards, I'd be happy to send it to you so you can make sure you don't support the real criminals in this hobby either.

If the worse thing Al ever does is mistakenly put a lot in someone else's package and then makes it right, I think I can live with that.

Jeff Payne

Very well said.
Al is a stand up and honest guy. Mistakes happen.

[pokerplyr80]

QUOTE: I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards.



He must have won a fair number of lots if he had to review his invoice to see he had 11 extra T206 slabbed cards. I think that sort of thing would stand out by just opening the package and looking at the cards.

I thought the same thing too. How many cards would you have to purchase to not notice 11 extra graded t206s? 100?

Much more likely that he realized people would be keeping an eye out for these cards and he would never be able to sell them. Or he figured they were just a Christmas gift from the AH.

[calvindog]

I thought the same thing too. How many cards would you have to purchase to not notice 11 extra graded t206s? 100?

Much more likely that he realized people would be keeping an eye out for these cards and he would never be able to sell them. Or he figured they were just a Christmas gift from the AH.

This is almost impossible to believe, in my opinion. Who gets 11 extra slabbed cards in an auction win and doesn't notice?

Can we learn who this lucky fellow is? Also, were all of the 11 cards returned to Al? Excuse me if this has been answered above, I can't bear to read all of it.

[sb1]

You would be surprised to know how many people receive winnings and don't go through them closely or even open them for weeks, some times months. There are some buyers who win dozens of lots of bulk lots and it all blends together as well.

Same with consignors who get checks and don't cash them for weeks or months.

Some folks have other things to do, or assume since they have the box/check in hand there is no rush to do further.


Scott

[Al C.risafulli]

There were almost 200 cards in various lots that this person won. There were two weeks of holidays in-between his receipt of the package and the start of this thread. The person is a good guy, a long-time customer, who did the right thing and helped us correct a mistake that was 100% mine. He deserves a pat on the back.

-Al

[vintagetoppsguy]

Who gets 11 extra slabbed cards in an auction win and doesn't notice?

Gotta be a board member, right? That's what was inferred.

I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards.

[timn1]

So now people want to pile on the person who mistakenly got the cards???

From time to time I have done exactly what Scott said - not opened or looked at my packages for days or even weeks because I had other things to do, or, for example, because of THE HOLIDAYS! And I've never gotten 200 cards in an auction shipment as this person did.

The resolution is forthcoming and all is well. Stand down the attack dogs ... We've all got better things to do.

[steve B]

You mean they're not already?! I've never consigned to an auction house and never read a consignment agreement, but there's no way I'd ever hand someone something of value without the approximate market value and clear steps to be taken and payout to be received from said AH if it "goes missing". That's just crazy to me and would think it leaves both sides open to a world of heartache.

My one experience consigning sports stuff, I got a copy of the sheet stuff was written down on. It was basically just a handwritten list on a form stating they'd do their best and payment should be 60 days after the auction date.

But then, I was consigning a carload of "stuff" ranging from a few probable store model bats that on ebay might have slid as potentially game used, a few autographs, boxes of cards that "used to book for something but mostly don't anymore" and loads of other random stuff.

A local antiques auction took walk in consignments. Hardly any paperwork, rough description and a number. Great place to sell stuff that wouldn't sell on Ebay. Except a big box of 88 Donruss... that didn't sell. And the auctioneer really tried.

Maybe it's different for small groups of better items? Or at bigger auction houses.

[jad22]

I haven’t opened up packages for several months before.

[packs]

My packages are shipped to a "permanent" address which isn't my primary address. It would not be unusual at all for me to get a card, confirm it was delivered through tracking, and not lay hands on it for a few months.

[steve B]

Seller received cleared payment 12/10 and has been sitting on them for a month now. Yeah, maybe just a titch more patience. Clearly he should have waited two months. :rolleyes:

Whether you agree with the OP's methods or not, it worked. Period. I really don't think he would have received his cards if not for this thread.

That's not a knock against Al, I truly believe it was an honest mistake. But the squeaking wheel gets the grease.

Umm.... 12/10 to 1/10 is only one month.

[orly57]

I haven’t opened up packages for several months before.

In contrast, I look at the tracking 50 times a day and stalk the mailman.

[vintagebb2014]

+1

[frankbmd]

In contrast, I look at the tracking 50 times a day and stalk the mailman.

I'm an impatient bastard too.:D

If my max bid is five times market value, I expect the lot to be shipped before the auction ends.;)

[steve B]

I actually had to go check.

I bought a part for an old tractor I have, but I'm not actively working on it. The guy who'd bought the brand (not in production since the 60's) Made a run of a particular cast part mine is missing. So I bought one.

I've never opened the package.

It was shipped to me in March 2016.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Umm.... 12/10 to 1/10 is only one month.

No kidding? :rolleyes:

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

[Stampsfan]

One question is why would the buyer specifically ask for it to be shipped to arrive before Christmas, then (apparently) not verify it until he checked this thread in January?

He must have really wanted his winnings badly...

[orly57]

One question is why would the buyer specifically ask for it to be shipped to arrive before Christmas, then (apparently) not verify it until he checked this thread in January?

He must have really wanted his winnings badly...

Bob, let's not allow logic to get in the way of wild speculation.

[calvindog]

There were almost 200 cards in various lots that this person won. There were two weeks of holidays in-between his receipt of the package and the start of this thread. The person is a good guy, a long-time customer, who did the right thing and helped us correct a mistake that was 100% mine. He deserves a pat on the back.

-Al

This does make sense. As long as he didn't open up the package and sell any of the cards off I suppose.

[barrysloate]

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea if when your package of auction winnings arrives, you open the box in a timely manner to make sure it was packed correctly. That would help you get a resolution if a mistake was made. Yes, we are all busy, but opening a box to check it for accuracy is probably a 5-10 minute project. It's time well spent.

Don't call an auction house a month after you received your winnings to say a mistake in shipping was made. If I'm the auctioneer (and I was for many years), that just sucks.

[frankbmd]

One question is why would the buyer specifically ask for it to be shipped to arrive before Christmas 2018, then (apparently) not verify it until he checked this thread in January?

He must have really wanted his winnings badly...

Bob, let's not allow logic to get in the way of wild speculation.

Logic wins.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Y'all need to come to a live auction and walk out the door with your winnings same day.

:)

[Fred]

You would be surprised to know how many people receive winnings and don't go through them closely or even open them for weeks, some times months. There are some buyers who win dozens of lots of bulk lots and it all blends together as well.

Same with consignors who get checks and don't cash them for weeks or months.

Some folks have other things to do, or assume since they have the box/check in hand there is no rush to do further.


Scott


Boy do I understand this statement. My ebay buying has dropped off a lot, but in the hey day of buying there'd be times I used to win 15+ lots a week (not every week was crazy, sometime's it was just a few). My travel schedule was brutal and I'd come home to 30+ packages. At first, I'd be very vigilant about checking everything but after a while the packages would just accumulate and I wasn't paying as much attention to whether or not I received everything I bought. Sounds crazy, but sometimes life just gets really busy and priorities change.

It wouldn't surprise me if I was shorted a package or two but that's what happens when you get sloppy with the accounting.

I'm much more in tune with my purchases now since they've dropped off a lot. I pick up things from fleabay and different AH's (including LOTG) and for the most part I have no complaints about any of the current AHs.

[BeanTown]

You would be surprised to know how many people receive winnings and don't go through them closely or even open them for weeks, some times months. There are some buyers who win dozens of lots of bulk lots and it all blends together as well.

Same with consignors who get checks and don't cash them for weeks or months.

Some folks have other things to do, or assume since they have the box/check in hand there is no rush to do further.


Scott

+1 on that as I'm in that boat. Heck, I still have unopened boxes from Hunt and Huggins in the basement dating back years. Dont have any plans on selling, and nothing jaw dropping that I need to take to the bank. Why open a perfectly wrapped box?

[orly57]

I guess he just wanted the BOX in time for Christmas then. That's plausible. Makes the gifts appear more plentiful if you wrap it up and put under the tree. Makes for a good platform to set up the Christmas train. You can use as a tray for the hot cocoa.

[Neal]

In contrast, I look at the tracking 50 times a day and stalk the mailman.

LOL

Same here!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Not Steve but I would guess he is referring to your wondering if there was something nefarious involved with LOTG offering to essentially let the OP have his winning lot for free...

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

[timn1]

The buyer wanted to be sure this large group of winnings had arrived safely at his home before he went out of town for the holidays, so he requested the faster shipment. Which didn't mean he was wild to look at them right away, presumably because he was busy with holiday stuff. Completely understandable.

In the same way, I have asked to have packages held and not shipped until I returned from out of town.

Bob, let's not allow logic to get in the way of wild speculation.

[timn1]

This one is obvious too, from a customer service perspective. When all this blew up, the reputable AH owner decided he wanted to do absolutely everything possible to satisfy the customer and all onlookers - hence the offer of the refund. Ironically, for a few people, that extra-mile offer only served to create even more suspicion. :confused:

Man, it doesn't seem to matter what either the OP or the AH owner do - someone who knows better is going to jump all over them.

Can we all try to agree that everyone acted reasonably here and all has ended well? and move on.

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

[3-2-count]

Just made an observation of letting the OP have his winning lot for free. What would been the cutoff to not letting him pay...lot worth $1000?....at a certain price point i think everyone would be wondering.....its not like it was just 5 bucks.......it was $540 bucks...

If you note when the lot wasn't 'found' yet no free money was being offered in addition to refund. Why only after delivering the cards is he also going to let him have free money (keep the cards that went for $540). Why not offer him more than his refund (0-$540) to begin with for the mistake...would have costed the Auction House the same....yet all that was offered was the refund and alleged lack of communication..but they chose the giving free money action after this thread started and cards found (but not before the thread).........however the buyer that started this thread is very happy and it all worked out....

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

[orly57]

Boy do I understand this statement. My ebay buying has dropped off a lot, but in the hey day of buying there'd be times I used to win 15+ lots a week (not every week was crazy, sometime's it was just a few). My travel schedule was brutal and I'd come home to 30+ packages. At first, I'd be very vigilant about checking everything but after a while the packages would just accumulate and I wasn't paying as much attention to whether or not I received everything I bought. Sounds crazy, but sometimes life just gets really busy and priorities change.

It wouldn't surprise me if I was shorted a package or two but that's what happens when you get sloppy with the accounting.

I'm much more in tune with my purchases now since they've dropped off a lot. I pick up things from fleabay and different AH's (including LOTG) and for the most part I have no complaints about any of the current AHs.

The buyer wanted to be sure this large group of winnings had arrived safely at his home before he went out of town for the holidays, so he requested the faster shipment. Which didn't mean he was wild to look at them right away, presumably because he was busy with holiday stuff. Completely understandable.

In the same way, I have asked to have packages held and not shipped until I returned from out of town.

Strong hypothesis. But no need to speculate here. Fortunately for us, Al is on this board. He has been keeping us in the loop. Is that what happened Al? Did the guy who received the package simply leave it unopened during the holidays and opened it up when he read this thread? Or maybe the recipient of the package who returned the cards will chime-in, since he is obviously a board Member. I hate speculating when the answers are so easily accessible. Seems like a silly thing to quabble about, but I think it may bring closure to this ugly situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

+1 on that as I'm in that boat. Heck, I still have unopened boxes from Hunt and Huggins in the basement dating back years. Dont have any plans on selling, and nothing jaw dropping that I need to take to the bank. Why open a perfectly wrapped box?

Kind of defeats the purpose not to even look at your cards once, no? Why not start a virtual collection? Or is it just investment?

[the-illini]

Strong hypothesis. But no need to speculate here. Fortunately for us, Al is on this board. He has been keeping us in the loop. Is that what happened Al? Did the guy who received the package simply leave it unopened during the holidays and opened it up when he read this thread? Or maybe the recipient of the package who returned the cards will chime-in, since he is obviously a board Member. I hate speculating when the answers are so easily accessible. Seems like a silly thing to quabble about, but I think it may bring closure to this ugly situation.

Ugliest thing about this situation has been some people’s reaction to it IMO.

[bbcard1]

Al is super solid. We have never met, but I consider him a friend in the hobby. He is always super responsive to my emails, I have sold through him and bought though him and am 100% confident in him. Ok. 99.897%. Because businesses of all sizes make occasional mistakes.

[Fred]

Ugliest thing about this situation has been some people’s reaction to it IMO.

Got that right....

Like they say, "opinions are like ass-holes, everybody's got one...."

My opinion -

OP probably jumped the gun on the post.

LOTG showed a lot of class in addressing this.

OP was understanding enough not to take the money and cards. IMO, that would have been a total dick move if the OP accepted the freebie.

In the end, OP and LOTG are good to go - a happy ending (of sorts).

[Bestdj777]

Kind of defeats the purpose not to even look at your cards once, no? Why not start a virtual collection? Or is it just investment?

For a lot of people, me included on occasion, a lot of the fun of collecting is acquiring the cards, not necessarily owning them. I'm excited when I click buy and can stop looking for something. Sure, there is some satisfaction in looking at some of the nicer cards, but some of the rather common pieces could stay in the box for a while.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Kind of defeats the purpose not to even look at your cards once, no? Why not start a virtual collection? Or is it just investment?

I took that post as a joke. I hope he wasn't serious. How do you know if you even got the right cards if you leave them unopened? Mistakes do happen and this thread is proof of that.

[rainier2004]

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

Absolutely, I feel enlightened every time he quotes the sale price followed by GLWS and all the brilliance brought. The grasp of the obvious and go against the logistics is simply amazing. Bravo, just bravo...

[z28jd]

You would be surprised to know how many people receive winnings and don't go through them closely or even open them for weeks, some times months. There are some buyers who win dozens of lots of bulk lots and it all blends together as well.

Same with consignors who get checks and don't cash them for weeks or months.

Some folks have other things to do, or assume since they have the box/check in hand there is no rush to do further.


Scott

I actually won a T3 card from LOTG in the winter 2015 auction and didn't get to see the card until over three months later. The box sat unopened at my house because my trip to visit relatives for a few weeks (which started days before the auction ended), turned into a 3 1/2 month trip when I was needed to help out with driving people to work after a family emergency. I ended up staying a little longer to go to Spring Training before returning home. So if there was a similar issue at that time, poor Al would have waited a long time to find out I had them.

He's a good guy, had him over one time to pick up some consignments and drop off some winnings.

[steve B]

No kidding? :rolleyes:

Reading comprehension is a lost art.

It sure is :rolleyes: Especially when someone says two months in their post, which is quoted and still doesn't get that it's not even close.

Keep up the good work.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I took that post as a joke. I hope he wasn't serious. How do you know if you even got the right cards if you leave them unopened? Mistakes do happen and this thread is proof of that.

If JC was joking that went right by me, I must admit.

[mrmopar]

Disclaimer: I wouldn't see this post of my own if I didn't write it myself, as I lost interest after the first couple of pages the day it posted, but...

I can't believe it is topics like these that seem to generate the most interest on card sites (regardless of the site).

I personally come to these sites to view photos, hear stories, share information and even learn some things. It is sad too me that threads trying to stir up conversation and interaction that are on the topic of collectibles often tend to die quickly with little interest, but when a pot is stirred, the replies are buzzing in by the minute.

Now, back to your bickering...

[rainier2004]

Glad everything worked out and Frank will get his cards and Al took care of things.

I was looking at the lot again...I'm not a t206 guy but one of those cards looks tough? Isnt the t206 brown old mill back a super tough back or maybe I have confused with the other t206 OM...I thought the brown back was the toughie but I'm not a t206 guy and am probably confused per norm...

Glad there was an honest buyer out there who helped make things right. Enjoy the cards Frank.

[mechanicalman]

I hear you, Mr Mopar. Here’s an attempt to bring it back to a positive place. I had a similar observation as Steve. Isn’t this an awesome buy given the rarity of that card? (Again, I’m not a backs guy either so I could be way off base.) If so, I can see why the OP was anxious to have those cards found, and I’m glad they’re returning to their rightful owner. As for Al, I don’t know him personally, but I was impressed with his honesty and desire to make things right, so much so that it helped me decide to commit my first large consignment to LOTG. I don’t believe in the adage that there’s no such thing as bad PR (there is), but when you respond to bad PR in a positive way, good things can happen.

Edit to add: Holy $hit. Steve posted the same observation while I was writing. LOL

[glynparson]

Wow some people are really ignorant. Al makes a mistake makes it right and some fools say they won't bid with him. The man is human he made an error he admitted such and did what he could to correct it. Then another jerk piles on with the asinine oh it must have sold cheap so al didn't ship it. That's a load of crap and insulting to a very honest man. You owe Al an apology for such a freaking ignorant dumb a$$ statement. Then instead of issuing said apology you double down on the stupidity. Al sorry you had to prove you were human and have to deal with such utter nonsense. This happend over the holidays people remember to factor that into the equation. This will have zero impact on my bidding with LOTG. Still as good as they come, but al is still just a human and therefore can make a mistake. Jake do you even know Al or do you just get off playing the jerk off behind the safety of your keyboard? Keep doing the right thing Al those that know you know your a great guy and have your back.

[edjs]

I was looking at the lot again...I'm not a t206 guy but one of those cards looks tough? Isnt the t206 brown old mill back a super tough back or maybe I have confused with the other t206 OM...I thought the brown back was the toughie but I'm not a t206 guy and am probably confused per norm...


If the card is really a Brown OM, that was an incredible steal, and very strange that it was not mentioned in the right up. Also strange would be that it is graded a "1" as I believe all Brown OMs are hand cut and get an "A" grade. There is not a scan of the back, and I know enough about Al that he would know a Brown OM and feature such a card, not bury it in a collector grade lot, unless he just didn't see it. I wasn't going to post in this thread, but this changed things. I would love to see the back.

[h2oya311]

If the card is really a Brown OM, that was an incredible steal, and very strange that it was not mentioned in the right up. Also strange would be that it is graded a "1" as I believe all Brown OMs are hand cut and get an "A" grade. There is not a scan of the back, and I know enough about Al that he would know a Brown OM and feature such a card, not bury it in a collector grade lot, unless he just didn't see it. I wasn't going to post in this thread, but this changed things. I would love to see the back.

+1

And if i were the consignor, i would have made sure to mention this to Al as well (prior to the auction)...pretty rare card to be lumped in with 10 common T206s. I can now see more clearly why there was such paranoia and panic by the OP!

[Pat R]

It was a mistake on the flip.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=249408

[Sean]

If the card is really a Brown OM, that was an incredible steal, and very strange that it was not mentioned in the right up. Also strange would be that it is graded a "1" as I believe all Brown OMs are hand cut and get an "A" grade. There is not a scan of the back, and I know enough about Al that he would know a Brown OM and feature such a card, not bury it in a collector grade lot, unless he just didn't see it. I wasn't going to post in this thread, but this changed things. I would love to see the back.

The Brown OM was discussed in a thread two weeks ago. The general opinion of the board was that it was a Black OM, and was labelled incorrectly by PSA. If it was brown it should receive an Authentic grade. Furthermore, the card doesn't show up in the Pop report for Browns, and if you search the PSA database for that serial number, it shows up as Black.

But I hope that the OP will show us the back when he receives the card.

Oops, Pat beat me to it. I wish that I had learned how to type in high school.

[Vintageclout]

first off to al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that i put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this i commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should i have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this i feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) i received my auction winnings.
2) i was reimbursed in what i felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since i have posted this thread it has been suggested that i be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give lotg a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what i did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, i am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because i do not want to bump this thread again.

+1000

[Snapolit1]

Disclaimer: I wouldn't see this post of my own if I didn't write it myself, as I lost interest after the first couple of pages the day it posted, but...

I can't believe it is topics like these that seem to generate the most interest on card sites (regardless of the site).

I personally come to these sites to view photos, hear stories, share information and even learn some things. It is sad too me that threads trying to stir up conversation and interaction that are on the topic of collectibles often tend to die quickly with little interest, but when a pot is stirred, the replies are buzzing in by the minute.

Now, back to your bickering...

I must have missed all the bickering. I thought 90% of the posts here were just to make clear that Al, an advertiser on the site, is a good guy who runs a top operation. Sure there was some pissing and moaning along the way, but I thought that was why this thread had legs.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Got that right....

Like they say, "opinions are like ass-holes, everybody's got one...."

My opinion -

OP probably jumped the gun on the post.

LOTG showed a lot of class in addressing this.

OP was understanding enough not to take the money and cards. IMO, that would have been a total dick move if the OP accepted the freebie.

In the end, OP and LOTG are good to go - a happy ending (of sorts).

Al already said he understood why the OP started the post...so it would appear from Als post the OP jumped the gun..correct me if im wrong.

and again, for you to think it would of been a bad move to accept the freebie (free $520) again shows that you are surprised that amount would of been offered...which is what i said..

Also noted the freebie (whether additional money or keep the cards) was only offered AFTER this thread was started and cards found...not before

[1952boyntoncollector]

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

Luckily you are here to say something negative on every post i make....luckily for us you are here to find our path....

as to Ranier about quoting sales in posts...leon said specifically last week that this was not allowed to avoid any confusion....you emailed me a bunch on this whining and reporting it to Leon....so now its not done anymore...some agreed with it...some didnt.......but glad to see you take a chance to pile on with Tony and his checkered history with me (though i not comment negatively on his posts not directed toward me)....... Nice to see you cleaning up the hobby of people not having an asking price now for people to see 5 years from now...

maybe you can now criticize someone for bumping their thread too much that no longer does it anymore.....just wait for someone to criticize that person and then pile on...... congrats..

[Leon]

Jake, thank God that we have you here. We'd all be lost without the presence of your immense knowledge regarding each subject which is discussed.

I think he said an ocean liner of words for a canoe of thought. And I am still not quite sure what the heck he meant!!

And I just saw him reply to you, now he can reply to me too. :)

[1952boyntoncollector]

Absolutely, I feel enlightened every time he quotes the sale price followed by GLWS and all the brilliance brought. The grasp of the obvious and go against the logistics is simply amazing. Bravo, just bravo...


Right and not only enlightnened but whine to me through email and email Leon...congrats its not done anymore as we had an official ruling on it by Leon a week ago.....Your post looks like you have no axe to grind. Glad you cleaning up the hobby..

Were you the kid that reminded the teacher that homework wasnt turned in yet after the bell?

I only made this post in response to yours thats throwing my name out there and talking about quoting prices..even though it wasnt done since Leon's ruling.. Not sure why you didnt want to leave things alone as it was since you got what you wanted...but maybe you like to stir the pot..

Bravo

[1952boyntoncollector]

I think he said an ocean liner of words for a canoe of thought. And I am still not quite sure what the heck he meant!!

And I just saw him reply to you, now he can reply to me too. :)

Ill take canoe..its better than a paper boat which I have been accused of in the past... :)

[bigfish]

First off to Al...

I appreciate you coming on here and admitting fault and agreeing with the timeline that I put forth. You were always a gentleman when we talked regarding this situation and you were also a gentleman in this forum. For this I commend you and truly appreciate your actions. Should I have been more patient? It surely appears many feel that way and that is something for me to consider in future actions.

Having said this I feel it is important to say that none of this would have happened if one of two things took place.

1) I received my auction winnings.
2) I was reimbursed in what I felt was a timely manner.

In less than 24 hours since I have posted this thread it has been suggested that I be sued. I have been blacklisted. My character has been called into question. I find it ironic that many will give LOTG a pass for what many (myself included) consider an honest mistake but will crucify me for also making what they consider a mistake.

To me, what I did was the equivalent of leaving a negative feedback. And to me, it was a negative experience.

Also, thanks to the many posters who tried to see my side of this and posted level headed, understanding responses.

Lastly, I am going to reserve the post below this reply to post the scan as promised because I do not want to bump this thread again.



Always nice to see a happy ending but the OP is getting crushed and I can’t comprehend it.

Happy New Year 🎊

[Leon]

Right and not only enlightnened but whine to me through email and email Leon...congrats its not done anymore as we had an official ruling on it by Leon a week ago.....Your post looks like you have no axe to grind. Glad you cleaning up the hobby..

Were you the kid that reminded the teacher that homework wasnt turned in yet after the bell?

I only made this post in response to yours thats throwing my name out there and talking about quoting prices..even though it wasnt done since Leon's ruling.. Not sure why you didnt want to leave things alone as it was since you got what you wanted...but maybe you like to stir the pot..

Bravo

Jake, I guess you could call me asking you not to circumvent others wishes on leaving prices in the BST by quoting the OP, as some kind of ruling, but it was more of not allowing you to screw over others. It is up to each person to leave prices in the BST, when you quoted them you took their choice away. That isn't fair and won't be allowed. BTW without this thread there wouldn't have been a resolution yet, I don't think. Al is one one of the best and his customer was frustrated. Now it's fixed....all is well....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Always nice to see a happy ending but the OP is getting crushed and I can’t comprehend it.

BTW without this thread there wouldn't have been a resolution yet, I don't think.

The OP did take a crushing and whether some agree with his methods or not, it worked. It's amazing to me how the cards went lost for 30 days, but once this thread was started they were miraculously found that very same day. I agree with Leon, I don't believe the cards would have been found (at least not anytime soon) if not for this thread. I truly believe it was an honest mistake, but it sure lit a fire under someone to find the cards.

This is nothing new though. I've seen similar situations like this before here where someone will complain against a board member and/or seller and the OP gets lambasted all because the one being complained against is considered a "good guy" in the hobby.

[2dueces]

I received a package from Al (LOTG). It was at least a year before I opened. I trusted Al that it would be all there and I just pushed it aside until I cleaned my den. Months before his auction I had a heart attack and in the box was a heart felt note from Al wishing me well. One of the good guys? One of the best. Thanks Al.

[orly57]

The OP did take a crushing and whether some agree with his methods or not, it worked. It's amazing to me how the cards went lost for 30 days, but once this thread was started they were miraculously found that very same day. I agree with Leon, I don't believe the cards would have been found (at least not anytime soon) if not for this thread. I truly believe it was an honest mistake, but it sure lit a fire under someone to find the cards.

This is nothing new though. I've seen similar situations like this before here where someone will complain against a board member and/or seller and the OP gets lambasted all because the one being complained against is considered a "good guy" in the hobby.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this Brown Old Mill issue seems important. If it is, in fact, a Brown Old Mill, then it had no business in a lot of commons that sold for $500. If, on the other hand, the card was mislabeled, shouldn't that little detail have been mentioned in the description? I wonder if the OP even knew about the OldMill or if it was his motivation for purchasing the lot. It would certainly explain his anxiety about not getting the lot he purchased. Perhaps he will chime-in on that, though he may have PTSD after the beating he took.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I wonder if the OP even knew about the OldMill or if it was his motivation for purchasing the lot.

I think the consensus is that it's really not a brown OM but, if the recipient thought it was, maybe that might be his motivation for not returning the cards right away.

I would love for the recipient to chime in as he obviously reads this thread, but something tells me that we won't be hearing from him.

[frankbmd]

Correct me if I am wrong, but this Brown Old Mill issue seems important. If it is, in fact, a Brown Old Mill, then it had no business in a lot of commons that sold for $500. If, on the other hand, the card was mislabeled, shouldn't that little detail have been mentioned in the description? I wonder if the OP even knew about the OldMill or if it was his motivation for purchasing the lot. It would certainly explain his anxiety about not getting the lot he purchased. Perhaps he will chime-in on that, though he may have PTSD after the beating he took.

I suspect the OP knew, which raises the question of why would a real brown OM be placed in a lot with 10 other pedestrian cards and displayed in the catalog without an image of the back, at least in the online version of the catalog?

If it’s not a real brown OM, perhaps PSA should chime in.

[botn]

Correct me if I am wrong, but this Brown Old Mill issue seems important. If it is, in fact, a Brown Old Mill, then it had no business in a lot of commons that sold for $500. If, on the other hand, the card was mislabeled, shouldn't that little detail have been mentioned in the description? I wonder if the OP even knew about the OldMill or if it was his motivation for purchasing the lot. It would certainly explain his anxiety about not getting the lot he purchased. Perhaps he will chime-in on that, though he may have PTSD after the beating he took.

Post 197 from Pat had this link, http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=249408. The person who won the 11 card lot is the same person who started the thread in the link Pat provided. Clearly the description of the lot should have mentioned the card was mislabeled. At the very least a back scan might have helped since 7 of the 11 cards' backs were shown.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Jake, I guess you could call me asking you not to circumvent others wishes on leaving prices in the BST by quoting the OP, as some kind of ruling, but it was more of not allowing you to screw over others. It is up to each person to leave prices in the BST, when you quoted them you took their choice away. That isn't fair and won't be allowed. BTW without this thread there wouldn't have been a resolution yet, I don't think. Al is one one of the best and his customer was frustrated. Now it's fixed....all is well....

Its your website and its not me to question your rules. Once I understood the rule I followed it and i made no mention of the matter on the forum after the ruling.

You only heard me chime in in response to Ranier who made a comment about it and i wanted net54 to know the context of it. I found it odd since I had not done anything since the ruling.

I agree, net54 solved the issue with the OP and he was even offered a free $520 basically as well. That did not happen before he started the thread, correct me if i am wrong.

So the auction house sent the wrong cards to someone, but did offer the OP extra after the thread was started and after they got the cards and also it appears according to Botn , they could of had a better description on the Lot in question. Mistakes happen, im glad it all worked out.

[packs]

I don't see what difference it makes if the Old Mill is brown or not. The card was won and paid for. Second guessing what should have been in the auction or not now or whether or not a card should have been sold is way past due.

[Fred]

He's a good guy, had him over one time to pick up some consignments and drop off some winnings.

Yeah I'm going to guess that an ultra rare Corcoran N172 wasn't part of the consignment.

[68Hawk]

Hi everyone:

This has mostly been a great discussion. I thought, now that the problem is on the fast-track to resolution, I would chime in with one last post to perhaps clarify a few things.

First and foremost, I have no issue with Frank opening this thread. I’ve been a member of this board for years, and time and again I’ve seen conflicts addressed and resolved due to discussions here. I’ve also seen many collectors get restitution simply by voicing their concerns. If I have to take a little heat, even when I am trying to do the right thing, that’s just collateral damage from a resource that is very, very helpful to this community.

Back on December 14, I received a payment from a long-time customer for his auction winnings. He included a note, asking if there was any way I could expedite his shipment so it would arrive before the holidays. In my haste to get his package out, I mistakenly put Frank’s 11 T206 cards (which had been pulled for packing as well) in with this customer’s items. I learned this today, because that customer read this thread, reviewed his shipment, and realized he had the cards. He has already shipped the cards back to me and provided a tracking number, and I should be able to turn them around and ship them to Frank by the end of the week.

It is truly unfortunate that this happened, because it is my goal to satisfy every single winning bidder with every single transaction. At the same time, over the five-year history of LOTG we’ve shipped about 15,000 different lots – and as much as I’d love to say we’re batting 1.000, it’s probably more like we’re batting .995. And while it’s true there were more slip-ups when the company was younger and we were still learning the ropes, from time to time I still make a mistake. What I CAN say, unequivocally, is that when I discover a problem, I do my best to resolve it as quickly as possible.

In this case, Frank made me aware that he had not received his winnings on December 20. After checking my records and realizing his lot was pulled but never shipped, I searched the storage area and, upon realizing the cards were no longer in our possession, attempted to piece together where I had inadvertently shipped them. I asked Frank for a couple of days to get to the root of things, knowing that the cards likely were still in transit due to holiday volume slowing USPS delivery times. After taking December 23-25 off for Christmas, I returned to the office on the 26th, hoping that the cards had arrived at their mystery destination, and whoever received them would reach out. On December 28, when that hadn’t happened, I advised Frank I would issue a full refund rather than hold his money, and apologized for my sloppy work. I cut the check on the 29th, the sixth business day after learning of the problem.

There is a second point I feel is worth addressing. During the course of this thread, a few people came to my defense – or at least attempted to offer an explanation for my mistake – by commenting that my company is a “one man show.” I am thrilled to say this is actually not the case. As many of you know, this fall Jeff Prizner joined me as consignment director, becoming the second face of LOTG (Jeff has a better face than me). But Love of the Game for quite some time has had capable behind-the-scenes help as well in the shipping room, and for scanning and photography, description-writing, and finance. I am not the only guy here!

I had a very pleasant discussion with Frank this afternoon, and I am thrilled to be able to get closer to making this right for him. It was his first experience with my company, and I messed it up. To those of you who offered kind words in this thread, I’m super appreciative. But what’s most important is that each time something like this happens, I can use it as a lesson to improve the service I provide to each of you.

Now…on to the next auction. We’ve got some FANTASTIC stuff lined up, it may well be the best auction we’ve ever had. I’d much rather be talking about that!

Warm regards,
-Al

Sensational. As a buyer or seller LOTG is the kind of AH I want to work with.
Al, I still haven't checklisted everything so you'll have to hit me up again for a future auction.....In my mind you're the best in the business because you are a really fine human being. Honesty pays, and you're as straight up and down as the days are long.

[botport]

First off I did receive Al's reimbursement check today, 1/11/18.
As previously mentioned, I will not be cashing this check, only holding it until the promised lot arrives.

Also, I did speak with Al today and he let me know that he has the cards ready to ship and he was also very adamant that the Paige was NOT a Brown Old Mill. Yes, I did notice the flip prior to bidding in the auction and took a gamble that it was indeed a BOM and perhaps I had stumbled across a little score. It also appears from our conversations today that I will not be receiving the Paige OM in my upcoming shipment. At this time I would prefer to let Al give the explanation as to why.

I realize that I said that I did not want to bump this thread, but since this update contains new information I felt it would be best to submit a new post for chronological purposes.

Frank Horvath

[1952boyntoncollector]

First off I did receive Al's reimbursement check today, 1/11/18.
As previously mentioned, I will not be cashing this check, only holding it until the promised lot arrives.

Also, I did speak with Al today and he let me know that he has the cards ready to ship and he was also very adamant that the Paige was NOT a Brown Old Mill. Yes, I did notice the flip prior to bidding in the auction and took a gamble that it was indeed a BOM and perhaps I had stumbled across a little score. It also appears from our conversations today that I will not be receiving the Paige OM in my upcoming shipment. At this time I would prefer to let Al give the explanation as to why.

I realize that I said that I did not want to bump this thread, but since this update contains new information I felt it would be best to submit a new post for chronological purposes.

Frank Horvath

So you are getting what you paid for minus the one card....

[bigfish]

First off I did receive Al's reimbursement check today, 1/11/18.
As previously mentioned, I will not be cashing this check, only holding it until the promised lot arrives.

Also, I did speak with Al today and he let me know that he has the cards ready to ship and he was also very adamant that the Paige was NOT a Brown Old Mill. Yes, I did notice the flip prior to bidding in the auction and took a gamble that it was indeed a BOM and perhaps I had stumbled across a little score. It also appears from our conversations today that I will not be receiving the Paige OM in my upcoming shipment. At this time I would prefer to let Al give the explanation as to why.

I realize that I said that I did not want to bump this thread, but since this update contains new information I felt it would be best to submit a new post for chronological purposes.

Frank Horvath



That’s interesting.... where did that card go?

[Stampsfan]

In case anyone cares, the cabinet guys and I have come to a resolution too. It's costing me $165 instead of $500.

:D:D

[vintagetoppsguy]

First off I did receive Al's reimbursement check today, 1/11/18.

Was it postmarked the date it was claimed to be mailed (the 29th I believe)?


It also appears from our conversations today that I will not be receiving the Paige OM in my upcoming shipment. At this time I would prefer to let Al give the explanation as to why.

Well, Al, you're online right now. How about the explanation?

[botn]

That’s interesting.... where did that card go?

Hopefully back to PSA to get the flip corrected but in the meantime why not a bit more mystery.

[Al C.risafulli]

Well, Al, you're online right now. How about the explanation?

Yep, it's coming. Hang tight.

-Al

[the-illini]

Yep, it's coming. Hang tight.

-Al

Hurry up Al; I demand an explanation for an issue that has nothing to do with me.

[calvindog]

That’s interesting.... where did that card go?

Why did the honest recipient of cards that were not his sell one of the cards he didn't win? And what a coincidence that it was the one card that had a possibly erroneous flip which, on its face, was worth multiples of what the OP paid for it. Forgive me if these questions have been answered above; I just can't bear to read all of this.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Hurry up Al; I demand an explanation for an issue that has nothing to do with me.

Don't be a jerk. As auction bidders, it affects us all. I think there is a lot more to the story here than is being told.

The cards sure arrived back to Al awful quickly if the recipient only mailed them on Tuesday. That's some quick shipping. It takes a check 13 days to get from Al to the OP, but only takes less than 2 days for the cards to get from the recipient back to Al. :confused:

I also think Al knew in advance that the Brown OM wouldn't be returned and that's why he told the OP to keep the check.

[orly57]

Hurry up Al; I demand an explanation for an issue that has nothing to do with me.

Al, apparently there's nothing to explain. Your loyal friends and followers will support you no matter what man. Don't waste your time explaining why this guy's cards were lost, and then found, and then one went missing. Don't get into the coincidence that the one that went missing just happened to be labeled Brown Old Mill. There is no need. Please don't mention how long you've known about this missing card or why you failed to mention it in your rather lengthy post about finding the cards. Guys are going to believe what they are going to believe no matter what.

[the-illini]

Al, apparently there's nothing to explain. Your loyal friends and followers will support you no matter what man. Don't waste your time explaining why this guy's cards were lost, and then found, and then one went missing. Don't get into the coincidence that the one that went missing just happened to be labeled Brown Old Mill. There is no need. Please don't mention how long you've known about this missing card or why you failed to mention it in your rather lengthy post about finding the cards. Guys are going to believe what they are going to believe no matter what.

Ain't that the truth.

[timn1]

All you diligent conspiracy hounds are right! Did anybody notice the number of Al's most recent post, where he "claims" the "explanation" is "coming"? - surely that is the key to all this - (plus he's from New Jersey...) Al is in fact the Antichrist.!

[pokerplyr80]

Don't be a jerk. As auction bidders, it affects us all. I think there is a lot more to the story here than is being told.

The cards sure arrived back to Al awful quickly if the recipient only mailed them on Tuesday. That's some quick shipping. It takes a check 13 days to get from Al to the OP, but only takes less than 2 days for the cards to get from the recipient back to Al. :confused:

I also think Al knew in advance that the Brown OM wouldn't be returned and that's why he told the OP to keep the check.

That's a strong accusation. If true it wouldn't be a good look at all for LOTG, and a few posters in the thread would owe Jake an apology for criticizing him for questioning the gesture of allowing the OP to keep the lot and the check.

[h2oya311]

All you diligent conspiracy hounds are right! Did anybody notice the number of Al's most recent post, where he "claims" the "explanation" is "coming"? - surely that is the key to all this - Al is in fact the Antichrist.!

awesome! Hopefully Al posts something quickly so that hos post counter moves to 667!

[Neal]

if there has ever been a thread for "1420" to chime in, this would be it!

[packs]

This thread has everything. Will an auction house crash and burn? Will a guy get a Brown Old Mill? Will a poster with a maligned theory be vindicated?

Tune in next time.....

[ruth-gehrig]

I hate to admit it but I'm a bit glad I didn't unsubscribe from this thread 23 pages ago like I should have.

[z28jd]

Yeah I'm going to guess that an ultra rare Corcoran N172 wasn't part of the consignment.

He has promised to hold the first 41 lots of his Spring 2047 auction for the Corcoran collection.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I hate to admit it but I'm a bit glad I didn't unsubscribe from this thread 23 pages ago like I should have.

Hold tight. The best is yet to come.

[deeg23]

All you diligent conspiracy hounds are right! Did anybody notice the number of Al's most recent post, where he "claims" the "explanation" is "coming"? - surely that is the key to all this - (plus he's from New Jersey...) Al is in fact the Antichrist.!

😂😂😂 now that’s funny!

[brianp-beme]

Wild theory here...perhaps PSA wants it back to reholder/relabel?

Brian

[Al C.risafulli]

The plot thickens...

Developments over the last day or so require I make another post here, so here goes. Suffice to say I feel like the knucklehead in a bad 1970s sitcom. I know it’s a commonly-used phrase, but you can’t make this stuff up.

The lot in question, won by Frank, was a group of 11 T206 cards. This thread happened, and the person who received the cards in error told me he found ten of the 11. He kindly sent them back, because he’s a good guy, and did the right thing, and deserves a pat on the back. Frank was aware that only ten cards would be coming back. I did not know which ten, nor did I think to ask. Since Frank was only going to get ten of the 11 cards, and since in my mind I had already written off the cards as a loss, I offered Frank to keep his refund, as well as the cards. Frank showed exceptional character by refusing to take the money.

This morning I wake up and read about a Brown Old Mill. Guys, give me some credit. I feel pretty confident in saying that I’m not going to overlook a brown Old Mill and accidentally list it in a group of commons in my auction.

Back in early October, I received a submission of 76 T206s back from PSA, all from the same consignor. I grouped them together in lots, and passed them along to the part-time employee who was helping scan the cards for the auction. When I was proofing his work, I noticed that two cards were mislabeled by PSA as Brown Old Mill. One - the Paige - had already been scanned as part of what became lot 262 - the lot that started this thread. The second card - a Bill Bernhard that I was going to list on its own - had come back a PSA 4.5. Given that Brown Old Mills should not have numerical grades since they’re all hand-cut, something was clearly wrong - not to mention that neither back looked brown to me.

I contacted PSA about the two cards, and they asked me to send them back to be reholdered. I sent them back, PSA reholdered them and shipped them back to me immediately at their expense. Here’s a screen shot from the PSA submission of that reholdering/relabeling job, showing both cards and their cert numbers.

https://i2.wp.com/lotgauctions.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/screen-shot-2018-01-11-at-11-42-42-am.png?ssl=1&w=450

Meanwhile, the original lot of 11 cards - the one this thread is about, with the scan of the Paige card with the incorrect Brown Old Mill flip, was listed in the auction. The scan of the 11 cards SHOULD have been replaced with a new scan including the Paige in the correct holder. They weren’t. OR, the or the entire lot should have been listed as a group of 10 without the Paige. It wasn’t. That’s where I screwed up (the first time).

INSTEAD, the two cards that were reholdered by PSA wound up erroneously being re-scanned together, and listed as a separate lot in the auction - lot 234 (http://loveofthegameauctions.com/1909_11_T206_Old_Mill_Southern_League_Pair-LOT14343.aspx). That lot contains the Paige AND the Bernhard, in the correct holders. If you look at the Paige card in lot 262 and the one in lot 234, they are clearly the same card - same pinhole at the top, same cert number on the flip, but one has the wrong description on the label.

So now, I’ve got the same card listed in the auction twice, and I don’t realize it. It is a common card, graded 1, very unnoticeable. Except that Frank, and probably some other folks as well, think there’s a chance that there’s a Brown Old Mill hiding in a lot of relatively common T206s, and rolling the dice might wind up with a nice score.

And, of course, when Frank doesn’t get his lot, hilarity ensues, as it would only be natural for Frank to think that somebody was playing games on this end with his Brown Old Mill.

It wasn’t until this morning, when I read posts in this thread about the Brown Old Mill, that I realized that this problem went even deeper than I had realized. I contacted the guy who'd received the ten cards to make SURE he couldn't have possibly still had the 11th card, and he insisted there was no way. In searching to figure out if it was possible that I still had the Paige here, I searched “Paige” in my most recent auction - and there it was, in lot 234.

SO, I contacted the winner of lot 234, the two Old Mills, in hopes that I could buy that card back from him and send it along to Frank with the other ten.

The winner of that lot (lot 234) is a Net54 member, extremely well-respected in the hobby, one of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet, and anyone who’s been on this board for any length of time knows him. I’m going to leave his name out of this thread. He’s working on a collection of Old Mill Southern Leaguers and I believe he’s building the set raw. So he went to break the card out of the new, ironclad PSA holder, and he damaged the card.

It looks like this now.

https://i2.wp.com/lotgauctions.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/paige.jpg?ssl=1&w=450

So that’s why Frank is not getting the Paige. Because it has a giant hole in it, as I discovered today. The guy who got the 10 cards by accident was being honest - he only got 10 cards, and he shipped them back quickly because he is a nice guy who lives one state away.

This afternoon I shipped the ten cards, along with a check for $100 to cover the cost of the Paige, to Frank, via Priority Mail. He should have them Saturday.

A promise: As long as Love of the Game Auctions is a business, I will occasionally make a mistake, and when I do, I will own it and do everything I can to fix it. Less occasionally, but still occasionally, I will make more than one mistake with the same lot. However, a far more important promise (I think): you will never, ever, see me engaging in any kind of sinister, unethical behavior. I understand that the natural response is to assume - especially given some of the history in this hobby - that the worst possible thing is happening. However, I started LOTG IN RESPONSE to that element of the hobby. There are no shenanigans going on with this company. Period.

Had I found that I made a mistake and listed a brown Old Mill in a lot of commons in my auction, I would have withdrawn the lot, explained why, and listed the brown Old Mill as its own lot in my next auction. I would NOT lie about it, be devious about it in any way, because that is not how I do things. For those of you who would like to think otherwise, I get it, but it’s just not that exciting. If you’re looking to find an auction house lying and cheating its customers, look elsewhere.

Once again, to Frank, I apologize for all the ridiculousness surrounding this lot. I’m not going to answer questions like “Why did he ask to have his items before the holidays?” or “Why did the mail deliver one thing really fast and another thing really slow?” because they’re unanswerable questions.

I hope this clears everything up.

-Al

[brianp-beme]

Ok, guess my theory was only slightly correct. Let's all go back to the realization that Al is not the antichrist.

Brian

[nolemmings]

So that's all you got, Al? You're gonna stick with that?:D

[Stonepony]

You cannot make that shit up!!!! I hope everyone has calmed down, I'm laughing my ass off.

[timn1]

Al WAS the Antichrist but now he isn't anymore.

[h2oya311]

I feel like I'm living in a Seinfeld episode. Great stuff!

[botport]

Al did tell me all this today and I am glad that he came out to explain it so quickly and thoroughly because he did a much better job than I could have possibly done.

I have been doing a considerable amount of thinking since this thread was started and I would like to do something to try and get something positive out of this entire ordeal.

My idea is to auction off 9/10 cards for charity here in the BST auction section.
(I'd like to keep the Evers for myself)

I would need three things to make this happen..

1) A charity that we can reach a decent consensus to give the proceeds to.
2) A middleman that is well respected that can deliver the money to the charity.
3) Net54 members opinions on 1/2 and also should this be a new thread or continue here?


So, I understand this is a major shift of gears from where we have been the last few days, but I think this could surely produce positivity as a result of this thread.


Frank

[Kawika]

I owe Al an apology.

[RedsFan1941]

2) A middleman that is well respected that can deliver the money to the charity.



how about Al?

[Stonepony]

I would 100% match the total sale if the charity is autism speaks. I do not want to serve as the middleman however. Anyway, good luck

[KingFisk]

Al did tell me all this today and I am glad that he came out to explain it so quickly and thoroughly because he did a much better job than I could have possibly done.

I have been doing a considerable amount of thinking since this thread was started and I would like to do something to try and get something positive out of this entire ordeal.

My idea is to auction off 9/10 cards for charity here in the BST auction section.
(I'd like to keep the Evers for myself)

I would need three things to make this happen..

1) A charity that we can reach a decent consensus to give the proceeds to.
2) A middleman that is well respected that can deliver the money to the charity.
3) Net54 members opinions on 1/2 and also should this be a new thread or continue here?


So, I understand this is a major shift of gears from where we have been the last few days, but I think this could surely produce positivity as a result of this thread.


FrankI would suggest maybe the American Cancer Society, as it seems from many of the sadder posts on the board over the years, cancer has claimed too many collectors or their family members.

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