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pbspelly
01-08-2018, 08:35 AM
So I saw this for sale on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLY-SULLIVAN-1910-1994-Autographed-Cachet-Played-on-7-MLB-Clubs/302572884529?hash=item4672bfd231:g:KSIAAOSwBjdaOz0 d) and was wondering a) if you guys think the signature is real and (b) what exactly is a "cachet" and how do they get date stamped? The reason I ask is that I am almost 100% certain that Sullivan (my grandfather) was not in Cooperstown in February 1991, and I am 100% sure that he was not in Cooperstown July 31 1994, since he died earlier that year. On the other hand, it does look like his signature and hand writing, and it would be very like him to write the years that he played for certain clubs. I also kind of doubt it's fake simply because it seems like a lot of work for someone to go through for something you're selling for $7.99. But I am just not familiar with cachets and how they get stamped. It doesn't have an address so it couldn't have been sent through the mail as a postcard. Any insight?

Michael B
01-08-2018, 12:10 PM
The cachet is the design on the left of the envelope. These have been done since the 1920's by a variety of companies (Crosby, Artcraft) and can be quite elaborate as the Artcraft engraved ones or as simple as the one shown here. They were mainly done for first day ceremonies when the stamp was issued, launching of ships (ship covers) or special events like the Olympics. The US Postal Service has nothing to do with the cachets. They have control over the stamps and cancellations. As long as an item has proper postage they will affix a cancellation. The item does not need to be addressed nor does it need to be mailed. You can also get multiple cancellations on an item as long as new and proper postage is attached. The postal service cannot affix a cancellation to a stamp that has already been cancelled. It must be an unused stamp with the current postage. For signed covers, such as the one shown, it is more desirable that it not be addressed, U/A is the designation on listings of covers being sold on ebay. Covers that are U/A look more attractive as there is a larger space for someone to sign. They do not have to squeeze their signature in another spot. On this cover signed by your grandfather it is too bad that he did not use the same pen to sign his name as he did to write in the years. Sharpie can spread so bad on porous paper that the letters merge into each other and he seems to have had a very nice signature.

steve B
01-08-2018, 02:18 PM
That's a nice concise explanation. Older covers have a few other things to note, but in general that's it for modern covers. (Cover is the stamp collecting term for a cancelled envelope - or other item)

The Lou Gehrig stamp was issued in 1989, so it's not a first day cover for that stamp. The most likely explanation is that someone sold generic covers with the cachet and the Gehrig stamp specifically for collectors to get autographed. Someone later attended the induction weekend and had the induction weekend cancel added then (The stamp was issued on July 28, 1994, in NM, so it's not a first day for that either.

roarfrom34
01-08-2018, 03:27 PM
Here are a few "cachets" I made myself (drove to Baltimore the day of and had them postmarked) and later had them signed by both Cal Ripken Jr. and the other player mentioned...I wanted to commemorate Cal climbing the All Time Consecutive Games list:

https://i.imgur.com/Oq9eu2E.jpg

thenavarro
01-08-2018, 09:56 PM
Very nice Bill

pbspelly
01-09-2018, 12:58 PM
Thanks for the info. I picked it up since it's my grandfather

Michael B
01-09-2018, 01:46 PM
[QUOTE=steve B;1736612]That's a nice concise explanation. Older covers have a few other things to note, but in general that's it for modern covers. (Cover is the stamp collecting term for a cancelled envelope - or other item)

QUOTE]

Thank you Steve. I wanted to keep it simple (K.I.S.S.).

steve B
01-10-2018, 02:03 PM
[QUOTE=steve B;1736612]That's a nice concise explanation. Older covers have a few other things to note, but in general that's it for modern covers. (Cover is the stamp collecting term for a cancelled envelope - or other item)

QUOTE]

Thank you Steve. I wanted to keep it simple (K.I.S.S.).

I'm glad someone can, it's not one of my skills.

Michael B
01-10-2018, 04:14 PM
[QUOTE=Michael B;1736990]

I'm glad someone can, it's not one of my skills.

We Mass. homies need to have each others back. (Waltham to Walpole to Worcester to here)