New Blog Post. BOND BREAD JACKIE ROBINSON!!!!

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Just posted a new blog to my site regarding the Jackie Robinson BOND BREAD PORTRAIT.

Pretty informative for the investor-collector.

Would love to know your thoughts. Thanks

http://toptiercollectibles.com/2018/01/buy-lowthen-sell-high/

[Chris Counts]

You asked for thoughts, so here is mine: When I clicked on your blog, I was anticipating learning more about Bond Bread cards, but all I found was a sales pitch encouraging me to invest in them.

[Bobsbats]

You asked for thoughts, so here is mine: When I clicked on your blog, I was anticipating learning more about Bond Bread cards, but all I found was a sales pitch encouraging me to invest in them.

Absolutely Agree

[bigfish]

Agree with the two above.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

In fairness the article is called buy low then sell high.

[iwantitiwinit]

In my opinion I don't view any baseball card as... "a safe investment". If considered investments I'd have to say they are speculative with some being more or less speculative than others.

As to undervalued cards I don't see your choice as being a great one, the issue is not a very popular one, the image is in black and white, the size is non-standard, etc.

Personally, I think the T206 Johnson portrait is the next to move higher in price and I have been buying a few here and there for speculative purposes.

Again just my opinion.

[nsaddict]

"The only thing keeping this card from blowing up is knowledge.*The majority of novice collector’s do not even know that this card exists.* Once it becomes more mainstream people are going to want it"

Thanks to this article, I now have the knowledge! Got my eye on the PSA 3 ending in 3 days. With a rock bottom starting price of 2900 I hope to steal it!

Back around 2010 Legendary sold them individually. They were graded in the mid range. Most sold in the 6/7K area. Anyone else remember?

[Chris Counts]

Since we're talking about 1947 Jackie Robinson Bond Bread cards, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this card that I have qualifies as one of them. There are a couple of these on eBay, but they have square corners, and my understanding is that the square cornered Bond Bread cards without borders aren't vintage ...

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Chris that isn't the card I was talking about, but that is authentic. It wouldn't qualify as it doesn't have any prominent advertising.

The PSA 3 guys is going for $2900 doesn't qualify as I said reasonable prices. if I. Go look at recent raw sales. Many are quite affordable. Anyone that is putting together this set I'm sure has had their eye on these cards. Would you like to chime in on what you've noticed in regards to pricing?

I personally think that eventually this bond bread card is going to get close to if not surpass the leaf.

Much like the 51 bowman mantle has taken off, the portrait has a chance to move much higher in the very near future.

Just a blog and my opinion, but I do know my Jackie.

[Chris Counts]

Robert made a good point about the card being black and white. I did a quick search on Google for the most valuable baseball cards, and curiously, they're all in color. Yet there are tons of really rare black and white cards out there, including many of baseball's biggest stars. The most valuable cards all seem to be "relatively common" cards with bright colors that are in fantastic condition. So a beat-up black and white card seemingly has two strikes against it. By the way, I collect all sorts of different baseball-related stuff, and there are always tremendous bargains to be found for black and white items ...

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Fair enough and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I am just one voice. I paid up for my PSA 7.5 and was still able to turn a
$1000 profit while being fair.

I don't think it's in its infancy, however I do think there is a lot more room for growth on this card than its 48 counterpart or a lot of other rookies from the same time period (Aaron and Koufax come to mind)

[Gobucsmagic74]

This card has already exploded Stephen. There really aren’t any affordable copies to be had quite frankly. Everyone is onto this card and I believe this forum has a lot to do with that. I search multiple times daily but I’m afraid the days of stumbling across a PSA 5 for $750 are long gone

[CMIZ5290]

This card has already exploded Stephen. There really aren’t any affordable copies to be had quite frankly. Everyone is onto this card and I believe this forum has a lot to do with that. I search multiple times daily but I’m afraid the days of stumbling across a PSA 5 for $750 are long gone

+1, this exactly...It's like the Green Cobb, cat is already out of the bag.....

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Show me a completed sale that has exploded. I'm curious.

[Gobucsmagic74]

Show me a completed sale that has exploded. I'm curious.

I can tell you I’ve personally been offered $3200 for the SGC 50 I bought about five months ago for $1150.

[CharleyBrown]

Hey Stephen,

I love seeing posts like this, as it brings more attention to one of the best Post War sets out there imo. That said, for those looking to learn more about the set, it might be worth linking to this auction lot, which has a nice summary of some of my research.

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=27398

[darwinbulldog]

Robert made a good point about the card being black and white. I did a quick search on Google for the most valuable baseball cards, and curiously, they're all in color. Yet there are tons of really rare black and white cards out there, including many of baseball's biggest stars. The most valuable cards all seem to be "relatively common" cards with bright colors that are in fantastic condition. So a beat-up black and white card seemingly has two strikes against it. By the way, I collect all sorts of different baseball-related stuff, and there are always tremendous bargains to be found for black and white items ...

Don't feel too sorry for these guys now.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Hey Stephen,

I love seeing posts like this, as it brings more attention to one of the best Post War sets out there imo. That said, for those looking to learn more about the set, it might be worth linking to this auction lot, which has a nice summary of some of my research.

https://goldinauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=27398

Great Idea doing it now.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I like these a lot (here's mine), but there's no chance it surpasses the Leaf which was a national issue. There's more leaf to satisfy demand and it's a fantastic looking card.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I like these a lot (here's mine), but there's no chance it surpasses the Leaf which was a national issue. There's more leaf to satisfy demand and it's a fantastic looking card.



Beautiful card! I am not talking about popularity because as you states there are way more which makes is more accessible. I am talking about value. I could see a Apple to Apple graded card leaning in the bond breads favor soon enough.

[The Nasty Nati]

No way the Bond Bread will surpass the Leaf. Yes, it's his true rookie, but it's such an obscure set that collectors won't think Bond Bread when they think of a Robinson rookie. 1952 Topps is not Mantle's rookie, but it will always be his most popular. Same with Leaf vs Bond Bread.

Also I think his 1949 Bowman will pick up value since more and more are catching on to the fact that the 1948 Leaf is most likely from 1949.

[ls7plus]

No way the Bond Bread will surpass the Leaf. Yes, it's his true rookie, but it's such an obscure set that collectors won't think Bond Bread when they think of a Robinson rookie. 1952 Topps is not Mantle's rookie, but it will always be his most popular. Same with Leaf vs Bond Bread.

Also I think his 1949 Bowman will pick up value since more and more are catching on to the fact that the 1948 Leaf is most likely from 1949.

You might want to take a look at Ty Cobb's various "obscure" (or shall we say ultra-rare?) postcard rookies, as well, of course, as the Babe's 1914 Baltimore News schedule card. The latter was extremely "obscure" in the late '80's and well into the early nineties, while the former have been going up, shall we say, quite nicely in price ($4,000 for a 1907 Dietsche Fielding pose Cobb in 2011 and $15,000 in 2015, both in PSA 5, and as I recall, an even rarer than rare 1907 Stainless Steel Tube Cobb went for $24,000 about a year ago). Demand usually comes around to rare and significant, "obscure" or otherwise. See what colonial coins and territorial gold coins have done since being "discovered" in the past 20 years or so.

In that regard, however, one might want to consider the much more elusive, so-called 1947 Bond Bread Exhibit Robinson--that is, if you can find one. Last time I looked there were about seven total graded, and I don't believe the count is going to change much. Most collectors like to have something ultra rare and desirable that others don't have. It's just the nature of the beast.

Happy collecting, in any form or manner you personally choose,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

Candidly, it reads like a bucket shop sales pitch for a penny stock:

"Buy any raw or graded Jackie Robinson Bond Bread card available at any reasonable price. This is going to become a home run in the next 12-24 months."

I get a dozen calls a week from various people pitching me 'investments' with this sort of over the top verbiage. It reeks of huckster-like hype. If you want to develop credibility in the field on this board, which is filled with experts who've been doing this for decades, this sort of stuff isn't the way to do it.

I also agree that the card is already out of the bag. I snapped up an example a while ago when the research on the creation of the cards was reported here and demonstrated it is a real regional RC. So did many other collectors. Anyone getting into it now is hoping to ride a wave that has already spent a ton of its energy. I also have to ask what your stake is in hyping this card. My cynical mind goes right to that question whenever I see something like this: is this a pump and dump effort to hype and then move your own cards. Not saying it is, just that this kind of breathless promoting raises the question.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You might want to take a look at Ty Cobb's various "obscure" (or shall we say ultra-rare?) postcard rookies, as well, of course, as the Babe's 1914 Baltimore News schedule card. The latter was extremely "obscure" in the late '80's and well into the early nineties, while the former have been going up, shall we say, quite nicely in price ($4,000 for a 1907 Dietsche Fielding pose Cobb in 2011 and $15,000 in 2015, both in PSA 5, and as I recall, an even rarer than rare 1907 Stainless Steel Tube Cobb went for $24,000 about a year ago). Demand usually comes around to rare and significant, "obscure" or otherwise. See what colonial coins and territorial gold coins have done since being "discovered" in the past 20 years or so.

In that regard, however, one might want to consider the much more elusive, so-called 1947 Bond Bread Exhibit Robinson--that is, if you can find one. Last time I looked there were about seven total graded, and I don't believe the count is going to change much. Most collectors like to have something ultra rare and desirable that others don't have. It's just the nature of the beast.

Happy collecting, in any form or manner you personally choose,

Larry

There are two GAI graded ones on ebay.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

You might want to take a look at Ty Cobb's various "obscure" (or shall we say ultra-rare?) postcard rookies, as well, of course, as the Babe's 1914 Baltimore News schedule card. The latter was extremely "obscure" in the late '80's and well into the early nineties, while the former have been going up, shall we say, quite nicely in price ($4,000 for a 1907 Dietsche Fielding pose Cobb in 2011 and $15,000 in 2015, both in PSA 5, and as I recall, an even rarer than rare 1907 Stainless Steel Tube Cobb went for $24,000 about a year ago). Demand usually comes around to rare and significant, "obscure" or otherwise. See what colonial coins and territorial gold coins have done since being "discovered" in the past 20 years or so.

In that regard, however, one might want to consider the much more elusive, so-called 1947 Bond Bread Exhibit Robinson--that is, if you can find one. Last time I looked there were about seven total graded, and I don't believe the count is going to change much. Most collectors like to have something ultra rare and desirable that others don't have. It's just the nature of the beast.

Happy collecting, in any form or manner you personally choose,

Larry

+100000000000

Candidly, it reads like a bucket shop sales pitch for a penny stock:

"Buy any raw or graded Jackie Robinson Bond Bread card available at any reasonable price. This is going to become a home run in the next 12-24 months."

I get a dozen calls a week from various people pitching me 'investments' with this sort of over the top verbiage. It reeks of huckster-like hype. If you want to develop credibility in the field on this board, which is filled with experts who've been doing this for decades, this sort of stuff isn't the way to do it.

I also agree that the card is already out of the bag. I snapped up an example a while ago when the research on the creation of the cards was reported here and demonstrated it is a real regional RC. So did many other collectors. Anyone getting into it now is hoping to ride a wave that has already spent a ton of its energy. I also have to ask what your stake is in hyping this card. My cynical mind goes right to that question whenever I see something like this: is this a pump and dump effort to hype and then move your own cards. Not saying it is, just that this kind of breathless promoting raises the question.


I can honestly say that I have 0 of these cards so this post actually hurts me by drawing attention to it, however I am confident in my opinion that there is a ton of growth still left for the Bond Bread Card.


I really meant for it to sound like Jim Cramer with the whole BOOM thing. I figure if you are gonna do a buy low column why not make it as gimmicky as possibly while still giving insight. I wanted to do one of those a month or so.

I do believe that any RETAIL price is a good price right now on this card as we could be looking back at these prices wishing we bought at them a year or 2 from now.

I love writing and researching, so the blog made perfect sense for me.

I respect EVERYONE'S opinions though and no hard feelings at all!

[CharleyBrown]

There are two GAI graded ones on ebay.

Peter, I don't believe those two cards are the BB Exhibit, but rather the square cornered BB cards that surfaced in the 80s? I believe.

I once owned the PSA 5... wish I never sold it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter, I don't believe those two cards are the BB Exhibit, but rather the square cornered BB cards that surfaced in the 80s? I believe.

I once owned the PSA 5... wish I never sold it.

Ah. That would explain why the guy who has the GAI 8 out at 20K paid 500 for it LOL.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Bond-Bread-Jackie-Robinson-HOF-Rookie-Card-GAI-8-1st-Graded/263267001599?hash=item3d4befa4ff:g:ieIAAOSwrhhZ5c9 A

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-BOND-BREAD-JACKIE-ROBINSON-GAI-8-NM-MT-RARE-HOF-ROOKIE-RC-CARD-PSA-SGC-BVG/172899804408?hash=item2841a1a4f8:g:8u8AAOSwBiVZ0Zc 8

[Exhibitman]

The 'exhibits' are very tough to find, especially in really nice condition. I was pleased to pick up this one a few years ago:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Exhibit%20Williams.jpg

[Gobucsmagic74]

The 'exhibits' are very tough to find, especially in really nice condition. I was pleased to pick up this one a few years ago:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Exhibit%20Williams.jpg

In what way are these Bond Bread "Exhibits" differentiated from the 1947-49 Collectors and Traders - Sports Card Subjects? I've attached a link to a thread on the latter and the cards look almost identical.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243832

[Neal]

size

[ls7plus]

The 'exhibits' are very tough to find, especially in really nice condition. I was pleased to pick up this one a few years ago:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Exhibit%20Williams.jpg

Very nice, Adam. I have the SGC NrMt+ Williams, which didn't come cheap.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

size

Size matters, I’ve been told.

[rainmaker]

fwiw i had my portrait up on ebay for a week or two recently. it is a psa 2. i had it at a bin of 2999 with a auto decline set at 1500 then 2000 quickly.

i know it isnt worth 2999 (yet) but i wanted to get a feel for the market. it was one of those 'this isnt really for sale' ebay listing.

in the week or so it was up it had over 150 views, i think 9 or 10 watchers before i closed the listing. many offers, without looking i would say close to 20 maybe more. the highest offer was 1700, a few at 1500 and many in the 1000 to 1200.

i said in the listing and in my amateur opinion compared to most of you all reading this, this is the single best upside post war card when everything is laid out much in the way the blog from the op states.

anyways just some info to share.

cheers

[rainmaker]

and just to be sure as some reading this likely were watching and offering i probably would have accepted an offer at 2500. wasnt out to waste peoples time with that listing.

i quickly realized with that much heat it doesnt make sense to sell right now.

[vansaad]

The portrait PSA 7.5 just went for $10,800 (with juice) in the REA auction.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Was that the one I SOLD to you :(

[vansaad]

Ha! No, I’m hanging on to that one for a long, long time. It’s the cornerstone for my Jackie collection. Just added my second Bond Bread, a PSA 4 Awaiting Pitch. Love these cards and hope to add more.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I cry everytime I think about it.

[Vintageclout]

I like these a lot (here's mine), but there's no chance it surpasses the Leaf which was a national issue. There's more leaf to satisfy demand and it's a fantastic looking card.

So hobbyists can simply “cherry pick” whatever cards they “choose”’ to be a Rookie card because of aesthetics/popularity? Simply stated, the Jackie “Portrait” Bond Bread card was distributed in June/July 1947 in most of the country’s major baseball cities so it is NOT a Regionsl issue. Since it pre-dates the Leaf Jackie by over a full year, it SHOULD be classified as the true Jackie Robinson Rookie card. Furthermore, there are no rules that state a true Rookie card has to be a Nationally distributed card. How many major cities does it take to be recognized as a significantly distributed issue? The bond bread card spanned New York, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Cleveland, etc. That certainly sounds convincing to me, and it just might make sense that the 1948 Leaf is eventually “bounced” as Jackie’s Rookie card in favor of his ‘47 Bond Bread issue.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Will have to go back and reread the context but think I was referring to the value or popularity. I consider the bond bread to be his rc card

[vintagerookies51]

Not sure how I missed this post... love these cards. Got my portrait several years ago for just a couple hundred (PSA 1), and one sold via PWCC nearly cracked $1K pretty recently. Wish I would’ve bought a higher grade but oh well. Would be nice if the rest of this set followed that path, but I think they’re unfortunately just too rare

[griffon512]

following up on another post by vintageclout in a different thread, all cards distributed in the same rookie year are generally considered rookie cards, regardless of the month of release. given this, jackie's homogenized bond bread card (beveled corners) and old gold cigarette cards, both issued in 1947, are also rookie cards. the old gold cigarette cards are incorrectly labeled 1947 by tpg's, but some excellent work by a board member, shaun fyffe, proved they are a 1947 issue. some speculate that the homogenized bond bread card was released before the bond bread portrait, but this will likely remain unknown. it doesn't matter at the end of the day because they are both rookie cards given the definition above.

i agree with vintageclout that the leaf and bowman jackie cards, issued after the beginning of 1948, are not his rookie cards and it is just a matter of time before this becomes generally accepted and reflected in card values.

[Exhibitman]

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

[guy3050]

I have both , I don't really care about which one is his rookie card , I would take his leaf card any day over his Bonds Bread , His leaf has and will always be an iconic Baseball Card , and one that I always wanted since I started collecting many years ago.

[griffon512]

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

adam, you are right and there are a number of exceptions to the rule. i'm speculating that over time the relative value of the bond bread portrait and homogenized bond bread card will continue to increase while that of the leaf/bowman will decline given the disparity in population, attractiveness imo of the bond bread cards, and shift in conventional wisdom to seeing these as his true rookie cards following the price increases that have already taken place. i think the old gold dugout card -- also released in '47 -- is still an excellent relative value but recognize it may have less upside as an oversized card (similar to price disparity between a '39 playball williams and his '39 goudey premium). obviously the market's opinion on the relative value of a rookie card or the designation of actually being a rookie card can change drastically over time.

best example of that over the last few years has been the '25 exhibit gehrig, which most hobbyists didn't pay much attention to a few years ago because exhibits couldn't classify as rookie cards. i think it was in 2015 that prices started to increase to high single digit thousands on low grade versions from staying in the mid-single digit thousand range for many years. that got more people talking about the card and auction prices began to gap up. call it a self-fulfilling prophecy or the tail wagging the dog, but the higher prices paid by a few hobbyists initially led to the change in conventional wisdom: that the '25 exhibit is gehrig's true rookie card and is worth a boatload of money. i don't expect the jackie rookies to have the same upside -- and one can argue that the bond bread portrait already had its inflection -- but at the very least i think they are good relative values.

[Exhibitman]

I certainly thought it was a good value when I got mine.

[Anish]

Agree with the analysis, James, except that last bit. Popularity of a later card can outpace a RC. The 1951 Bowman Mantle will never top the 1952 Topps Mantle. The W600 Wagner won't touch the T206. And so on.

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

[Gobucsmagic74]

If you go back about 5 years ago the iconic 1948 (actually '49) Leaf Jackie Robinson card was readily available in mid-grade PSA 5 for anywhere between 1K to $1200, then the Jackie Robinson movie came out and that card ascended to $3500-$4k essentially over night. Same thing is happening with the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait only, instead of thousands of copies, there's closer to 125 graded between companies. The card still has room to grow and I expect it will as collectors become better informed about the set and this card in particular...which is the true RC of one of the most influential people, much less ballplayer, of all-time.

[Stonepony]

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

[Gobucsmagic74]

Put me in the camp which does not consider the Bond Bread card ( portrait/auto facsimile) Robinson's rookie card. To reply to a statement above- I paraphrase- "Don't I consider a distribution in 18 major cities a nationwide distribution?". Absolutely not!!. Bond Bread distributed in 18 states and it's likely the early portrait card was released in a very small regional area ( Harlem, Brooklyn...) and it was only the subsequent cards over the next 2 years that were released in " major markets" ( well....18 cities)
If my dad couldn't walk down to his father's drugstore in Emporia, KS and get the card... or at least get one in Kansas City then it's not nationwide. Could he get a 48 Leaf or Bowman- yep and he did. Thats not to single out Kansas. There were
30 other states that Bond Bread did not distribute in ( Alaska and Hawaii were not states yet). Heck did they even have a factory west of the Mississippi??
To me the Bond Bread Robinson is a glorified/ expanded Regional issue. As a regional card collector- I'd better step up and get me one sometime.
Let me be clear- I'm not suggesting the Bond Bread card won't pass by the Leaf or Bowman issues in value or popularity. I have no idea of course. From MY perspective the Robinson Rookies are those absolutely beautiful, colored 1948 ( 1949) leaf and Bowman cards.

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

[Stonepony]

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

[nsaddict]

Hmmm.... sounds like this could be an interesting poll question?

[Gobucsmagic74]

No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

[Stonepony]

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

I remember that thread and reread it. The photos are no longer posted.
Although I applaud the research and photo dating... the thread doesn't bring me any closer to knowing where the cards were distributed... and for that matter exactly when. The window is certainly proven and precedes the 1948 leaf and Bowman issues almost certainly. The portrait card is described as a " promo card" by the researchers. There's a lot of " we believe", " may have been",
" we speculate " language in there. I'll never consider a promo card a true rookie card and for me the area of distribution is way to small. I'm standing by my opinion.. but great stuff!!! i just love the 49 Bowman too much to budge:rolleyes:

[Exhibitman]

Might I ask what examples there are other than those two? An iconic set can make a later issue more valuable, but that’s certainly the exception and 1948 Leaf is no T206 or 52 Topps.

I expect the BB Portrait to become the top Jackie card. It’s relative scarcity and attractiveness appeal to me in addition to it being Jackie’s RC.

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

[CharleyBrown]

Dave,

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong on the distribution of the promo card being limited to Harlem and Brooklyn NYC.

The portrait has already passed the 49 Bowman in terms of price.

Newly surfaced photos now indicate that the 6 cards distributed in early 1948 all feature images from the game before opening day. Will update my original thread when possible. I do not want to out an auction for those bidding.

[CharleyBrown]

I also have first and second hand accounts from those who obtained the cards or family members. The we believes were early in my research. I used that term because I wanted to make sure I had confirmation before stating definitively. I am much further along in my research, and can say that this set's distribution spans far wider than NYC. I say that with 100% certainty.

Regarding the Leaf issue, I do believe that it is an iconic set, and I am proud to own both the Leaf card, as well as the entire BB set.

[Stonepony]

Hey Shaun,
I'm not challenging that the Bond set predates the Leaf and Bowman. Nor am I challenging it's popularity, status or value. It's a great card. However from my perspective, I don't consider an issue that was limited to less that 15 large Metroplitan areas a candidate for his true rookie card. Earliest card, ok.
Everyone else may disagree
I would like to see the evidence that the portrait was widely distributed. That's interesting.
PS- is everyone ready to get on board with the 54 Johnston cookies Aaron unseating the Topps issue as his true rookie?

[CharleyBrown]

Hey Shaun,
I'm not challenging that the Bond set predates the Leaf and Bowman. Nor am I challenging it's popularity, status or value. It's a great card. However from my perspective, I don't consider an issue that was limited to less that 15 large Metroplitan areas a candidate for his true rookie card. Earliest card, ok.
Everyone else may disagree
I would like to see the evidence that the portrait was widely distributed. That's interesting.
PS- is everyone ready to get on board with the 54 Johnston cookies Aaron unseating the Topps issue as his true rookie?

Understandable, and you are entitled to your own beliefs. I respect that. I can't answer the Aaron question, as I do not know enough about the set.

[Gobucsmagic74]

Hey Shaun,
I'm not challenging that the Bond set predates the Leaf and Bowman. Nor am I challenging it's popularity, status or value. It's a great card. However from my perspective, I don't consider an issue that was limited to less that 15 large Metroplitan areas a candidate for his true rookie card. Earliest card, ok.
Everyone else may disagree
I would like to see the evidence that the portrait was widely distributed. That's interesting.
PS- is everyone ready to get on board with the 54 Johnston cookies Aaron unseating the Topps issue as his true rookie?

No, because the Johnston Cookies is a straight-up, undeniable, regional issue and his Topps RC was produced the same year...rather than a year and a half later. Not sure why you'd use the term un-seat either? They're both 1954 issues.

[Bored5000]

I have both , I don't really care about which one is his rookie card , I would take his leaf card any day over his Bonds Bread , His leaf has and will always be an iconic Baseball Card , and one that I always wanted since I started collecting many years ago.

I don't have either card, so I don't any financial stake in one or the other. But I don't see the Bond Bread portrait supplanting the Leaf card as the Robinson card to have. The Leaf card is such an iconic image, the image that many people think of when they think of a Jackie Robinson card.

I think the fact that the Bond Bread card is black and white and the Leaf is in color hurts the Bond Bread card as well. Obviously, there are many black and white cards in the hobby that are worth huge money, but I do think it limits the chance of the card becoming the iconic Robinson card to own when there are color options issued so closely to the Bond Bread card.

[Anish]

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

The Berra example is probably the most comparable. However, SMR doesn't mean anything. It would be great to see recent sales of the cards in the same condition (perhaps you have).

[Anish]

I don't have either card, so I don't any financial stake in one or the other. But I don't see the Bond Bread portrait supplanting the Leaf card as the Robinson card to have. The Leaf card is such an iconic image, the image that many people think of when they think of a Jackie Robinson card.

I think the fact that the Bond Bread card is black and white and the Leaf is in color hurts the Bond Bread card as well. Obviously, there are many black and white cards in the hobby that are worth huge money, but I do think it limits the chance of the card becoming the iconic Robinson card to own when there are color options issued so closely to the Bond Bread card.

The scarcity of the BB makes it more appealing to me and, I imagine, others. The Leaf is available in various conditions quite readily whereas the BB is not.

I myself thought of the Leaf as the *the* Jackie card until I read about the BB. It came out earlier, is harder to find, and IMO looks as nice if not nicer. That makes it the best card to me.

[Bored5000]

The scarcity of the BB makes it more appealing to me and, I imagine, others. The Leaf is available in various conditions quite readily whereas the BB is not.

I myself thought of the Leaf as the *the* Jackie card until I read about the BB. It came out earlier, is harder to find, and IMO looks as nice if not nicer. That makes it the best card to me.

I get the scarcity factor. I love the rare and obscure myself (not saying the Bond Bread is rare or obscure).

There are numerous Mickey Mantle cards that are scarce or obscure, yet they are not the 1952 Topps. The Robinson Leaf card will always be iconic, even though it is not a rare card by any stretch of the imagination.

I still think being black and white hurts the Bond Bread card.

[robertsmithnocure]

The window is certainly proven and precedes the 1948 leaf and Bowman issues almost certainly.

Hasn’t it been accepted that the Leaf card was made in 1949?

[Baseball Rarities]

It is probably not a fair comparison, but it was not that long ago that Ruth's 1933 Goudey cards were worth more than his M101-5/4 cards.

[Anish]

I get the scarcity factor. I love the rare and obscure myself (not saying the Bond Bread is rare or obscure).

There are numerous Mickey Mantle cards that are scarce or obscure, yet they are not the 1952 Topps. The Robinson Leaf card will always be iconic, even though it is not a rare card by any stretch of the imagination.

I still think being black and white hurts the Bond Bread card.

Sure, but they don’t predate the 52 Topps either. I can understand why someone would pay more for a 52T Mantle than a 51 Bowman or anything else...it’s the key card in the first ever Topps set. But for 48 Leaf? Jackie’s not even the biggest RC (Paige) and Leaf didn’t have the greatest run. I do like the Robinson Leaf aesthetically, but I’ll take a card that came out nearly two years earlier and is much harder to find every time.

I think an interesting comparison is with the Jordan 84 Star and 86 Fleer. The latter is certainly iconic (even more so than the 48 Leaf Jackie) but sells for less in the same condition than the 84 Star. Scarcity carries the day in that case.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people preferred the look of the Leaf. I’m probably in the minority in preferring black and white cards as black and white screams vintage to me.

As a hockey and soccer collector who is really only interested in Jackie as far as baseball goes, I’d hope to see the BB remain affordable. But I don’t expect it to.

[Stonepony]

Hasn’t it been accepted that the Leaf card was made in 1949?

Correct

[Exhibitman]

So who wants to trade my JR bread card for a JR Leaf?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Robinson%20portrait.jpg

[Gobucsmagic74]

So who wants to trade my JR bread card for a JR Leaf?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Robinson%20portrait.jpg

I have a JR Leaf in SGC 55, so that won't work. Are you interested in selling the BB

[CharleyBrown]

Likely depends on the collector. If it were a PSA1 for a PSA/SGC1 or a PSA2 for a PSA2, I would consider it. The BB card still has some catching up to do in the mid-higher grades, but there's no denying it has experienced an incredible jump in the past year. A PSA6 nearly eclipsed the $6k mark last night. I'm glad I got my PSA7 when I did. In hindsight, I wish I bought a few more.

So who wants to trade my JR bread card for a JR Leaf?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1947%20Bond%20Bread%20Robinson%20portrait.jpg

[Vintageclout]

So you simply choose to ignore the research that debunks that myth. If memory serves me Kansas City was one of the markets it was distributed in, but either way it's been fairly well documented that BB's were distributed in, at minimum, 13 metropolitan cities across the country. Not sure how that qualifies as a regional issue, or even a glorified regional issue, but I'm not a regional collector.

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

[guy3050]

Not sure how I missed this post... love these cards. Got my portrait several years ago for just a couple hundred (PSA 1), and one sold via PWCC nearly cracked $1K pretty recently. Wish I would’ve bought a higher grade but oh well. Would be nice if the rest of this set followed that path, but I think they’re unfortunately just too rare

That card resold for $425 ($522 with the juiced and shipped) a month ago in the Love of the game auction, I know I bought it.

[Exhibitman]

I have a JR Leaf in SGC 55, so that won't work. Are you interested in selling the BB

Nope.

[Exhibitman]

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

Completely agree. Why should we define what is a RC based on some arbitrary concept of geographic distribution? Baseball wasn't available nationally; there were no MLB teams west of St. Louis. Should we consider the PCL a major league because it played where MLB was 1,000 miles away?

[Gobucsmagic74]

Nevermind

[Stonepony]

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

It's an opinion which I've clearly stated may be my own, alone. Thanks for the harsh statements.

[Gobucsmagic74]

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

I can only guess people are trying to protect their investments (1948/49 Leaf and 49 Bowman) which is understandable but funny to me because, as has already been mentioned, those cards (particularly the 1949 Leaf) are iconic and aren't going to lose their value either way. Conversely, imagine what would happen if the PSA registry recognized the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait as his true RC? Its already exploded regardless, almost completely due to the research provided on this board

[guy3050]

I love all My Jackie's

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/952/26893966307_a3d52df754_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GYwBdg)IMG_0782 (https://flic.kr/p/GYwBdg) by Guy Bourque (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151462905@N03/), on Flickr

[Exhibitman]

Ditto:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/Premium%20Robinson_%20Jackie.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/Robinson%20small%20publicity.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/PC%20Unc%20Robinson%20Jackie%20RPPC.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1952%20Star%20Cal%20Robinson%201.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1952%20Dodgers%20Schedule%201.jpg

(Well what did you expect...mainstream cards?)

[guy3050]

Ditto:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/Premium%20Robinson_%20Jackie.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/Robinson%20small%20publicity.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/PC%20Unc%20Robinson%20Jackie%20RPPC.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1952%20Star%20Cal%20Robinson%201.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1952%20Dodgers%20Schedule%201.jpg

(Well what did you expect...mainstream cards?)


Those are great , I'm slowly working in his none mainstream cards

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

so basically the verdict of this thread is my log kicked ass? jk

[TPGS]

https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/8/3/1/9/9/6/webimg/944100571_o.jpg

I love all of those Robinson's, especially the obscure ones. Here's another very scarce true 1947 Jackie Robinson Pleetwood Slacks rookie year issue, even tougher find than the Bond Bread. Jackie appears really young in this oversized image. This example still has the tab attached on the bottom and PSA has only reviewed 3 of them total. It's available for $1950 if interested.

[Vintageclout]

so basically the verdict of this thread is my log kicked ass? jk

Let’s just hope that Shaun Fyffe’s extensive research efforts don’t die here, and that a continuous push is made to appropriately redefine Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card as his 1947 Bond Bread portrait subject. Simply stated, it pre-dates the ‘48/‘49 Leaf by at least a full calendar year, and its vast distribution in numerous major cities solidifies it as a mainstream issue. FYI, this is by no means a “self-serving” push for the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie since I own TWO mid-grade “48 Leaf Jackies. It’s simply a bonafide petition for the hobby to “get it right”!

[bigfish]

Let’s just hope that Shaun Fyffe’s extensive research efforts don’t die here, and that a continuous push is made to appropriately redefine Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card as his 1947 Bond Bread portrait subject. Simply stated, it pre-dates the ‘48/‘49 Leaf by at least a full calendar year, and its vast distribution in numerous major cities solidifies it as a mainstream issue. FYI, this is by no means a “self-serving” push for the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie since I own TWO mid-grade “48 Leaf Jackies. It’s simply a bonafide petition for the hobby to “get it right”!


+1

[Gobucsmagic74]

Let’s just hope that Shaun Fyffe’s extensive research efforts don’t die here, and that a continuous push is made to appropriately redefine Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card as his 1947 Bond Bread portrait subject. Simply stated, it pre-dates the ‘48/‘49 Leaf by at least a full calendar year, and its vast distribution in numerous major cities solidifies it as a mainstream issue. FYI, this is by no means a “self-serving” push for the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie since I own TWO mid-grade “48 Leaf Jackies. It’s simply a bonafide petition for the hobby to “get it right”!

Couldn't agree more. The research conducted and shared by these fellow board members must be commended and, if recent sales are any indication, the hobby has definitely taken notice.