Looking for ID help on the players on this baseball RPPC..... [Archive]

vthobby

11-20-2017, 07:49 PM

Any help on these players would be appreciated. Also....any opinions on this get together? What event do you think it might be? Thanks in advance!

Mike

295678

295679

RUKen

11-21-2017, 08:59 AM

1910 Cincinnati Reds
Probably during spring training, when a player new to the team would wear a sweater or uniform from his previous team (for example, the player with a P on his sweater).

Clark Griffith is seated just to the right of the player in the P sweater.
Larry McLean is the tallest player on the team, near the back right.
Hans Lobert is directly in front of Griffith.
Frank Roth is in the last seat on the right in the middle row, with someone else almost on his lap.
Jack Rowan is third from the left in the middle row.

OK; it's someone else's turn...

RUKen

11-21-2017, 09:02 AM

1910 Cincinnati Reds

I just realized that what I thought was the same image in my (digital) collection is actually another photo taken shortly before or after the other (with hats on):

Bicem

11-21-2017, 09:31 AM

Great postcard!

RUKen

11-21-2017, 10:24 AM

1910 Cincinnati Reds
Probably during spring training, when a player new to the team would wear a sweater or uniform from his previous team (for example, the player with a P on his sweater).

Clark Griffith is seated just to the right of the player in the P sweater.
Larry McLean is the tallest player on the team, near the back right.
Hans Lobert is directly in front of Griffith.
Frank Roth is in the last seat on the right in the middle row, with someone else almost on his lap.
Jack Rowan is third from the left in the middle row.

OK; it's someone else's turn...

Fred Beebe is in the middle row on the left, wearing the St. Louis sweater; he had played for the Cardinals in 1909.
Harry Coveleski is in the middle row in the P sweater; he had played for the Phillies in 1909.
Alan Storke was traded with Beebe from the Cardinals to the Reds; that could be him in the front row in the St. Louis sweater.
Tommy Clarke is just left of Frank Roth.

Bpm0014

11-21-2017, 10:54 AM

I just realized that what I thought was the same image in my (digital) collection is actually another photo taken shortly before or after the other (with hats on):

It looks like Joe Jackson on the upper left inside the house looking out the window....

Steve D

11-21-2017, 11:17 AM

Second from the left in the middle row looks like Harry Gaspar.

Steve

vthobby

11-21-2017, 01:32 PM

I knew there was info out there! Thanks guys! Incredible and Brendan, I looked closer and it is not Joe Jackson in that window but it is definitely his long lost brother in law........ "Reggie Jackson"! :)

Thanks guys and keep the info coming!

Peace, Mike

vthobby

11-21-2017, 01:34 PM

I just realized that what I thought was the same image in my (digital) collection is actually another photo taken shortly before or after the other (with hats on):

Very cool sister image.....or is it "brother" image? :)

Thanks for sharing and for your info RUKen!

Mike

judsonhamlin

11-21-2017, 02:32 PM

Egan is middle row far right

bmarlowe1

11-21-2017, 08:27 PM

It is spring 1910. Numbered from left to right, with back row numbered 1 – 10, middle row numbered 11-19, front row numbered 20-27

1) Dode Paskert
2) Franz Hosp
3) Larry Cheney
4) Tom Downey
5) Swat McCabe
6) ?
7) Rube Benton
8) Mike Mitchell
9) Larry McClean
10) Dick Hoblitzell

11) Fred Beebe
12) Harry Gaspar
13) Jack Rowan
14) Harry Coveleski
15) Clark Griffith
16) Tom Cantwell
17) Tommy Clarke
18) Frank Roth
19) Dick Egan

20) ?
21) Jimmy Doyle (not Alan Storke, this dates the photo to 1910)
22) Bob Bescher
23) Ward Miller
24) Hans Lobert
25) George Suggs
26) ?
27) batboy I guess

prewarsports

11-21-2017, 09:23 PM

20 is Roy Castleton, one of only two players I collect in the world so I know his face pretty well.

Leon

11-22-2017, 05:44 AM

You guys are good. I wish I got that much help around here :)

2dueces

11-22-2017, 06:24 AM

Wow. Impressive photograph. But more impressive is the knowledge here. Always amazes me.
So as I inch closer to retirement people ask, what happens to all that knowledge when you retire. Young kids don't want to learn or have the patience to learn this business.
What happens when the old timers retire here? Is there a generation coming up willing to carry on this knowledge? To learn all about this hobby and 1900's baseball? I would imagine the average age is far greater than 40ish?

RUKen

11-22-2017, 06:35 AM

I believe that #6 is Mike Konnick:

Konnick
1911 Dayton (on the left)

vthobby

11-22-2017, 06:59 AM

You guys are incredible! I was trying to do a face match from old photos and the 1910 roster and I realized that I would be the worst crime victim as I can't seem to look at 2 face photos and match anyone!!!!

As said before, Thank you SO much. It appears we have an interesting "mystery" as we are down to only 1 player........#26 (2nd player in from the bottom row right) from Mark's list above.

Guesses would even be appreciated! Thanks again!

Peace, :) Mike

PS I may have just found another clue and we may have a name now for line 27!!!!I found a passage in "Baseball, The Golden Age" that says (and I abbreviate where necessary)...."The A's employed Zelt a handicapped lad as batboy in 1910. About the same time "Brownie Burke", a midget was in uniform daily with the Reds".

vthobby

11-22-2017, 07:33 AM

#21 "could" be Alan Storke as I found this NY Times article:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=980CE7DA1430E233A2575AC1A9659C946196D6CF

This shows that Storke died in 1910 and was with St Louis the previous year (the player in the #21 slot (2nd in from left in front row) is wearing a St Louis sweater) and the article says that Storke was signed by the Reds after 1909.

Jim Doyle was a Rookie with the Reds in 1910 so not sure why he would be wearing a St Louis sweater? Thoughts?

Thanks! Mike

PS I just found a great in depth SABR article on Storke that implies he was with Harvard getting his law degree in early 1910 and working out in Harvard's batting cages so not sure he was ever with the Reds team for a photo.
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/59a8c452

RUKen

11-22-2017, 08:49 AM

#21 "could" be Alan Storke...

Jim Doyle was a Rookie with the Reds in 1910 so not sure why he would be wearing a St Louis sweater? Thoughts?

PS I just found a great in depth SABR article on Storke that implies he was with Harvard getting his law degree in early 1910 and working out in Harvard's batting cages so not sure he was ever with the Reds team for a photo.
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/59a8c452

Sporting Life reports on the Reds in spring training in 1910 seem to indicate that Storke never joined the team that spring before his early death. I now agree with BMarlowe that it is not Storke, and it certainly looks like Jimmy Doyle (compared to a photo of him from the Chicago Daily News archive), though I have no idea why he would have had a Cardinals' sweater:

bmarlowe1

11-22-2017, 11:08 AM

#21 "could" be Alan Storke as I found this NY Times article: ...
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=980CE7DA1430E233A2575AC1A9659C946196D6CF
... shows that Storke died in 1910 and was with St Louis the previous year (the player in the #21 slot (2nd in from left in front row) is wearing a St Louis sweater) and the article says that Storke was signed by the Reds after 1909.Thoughts?
Thanks! Mike...

Mike - it can't be Alan Storke. Below center is the face in question from the "hats on" version of the OP's photo (from Library of Congress). Storke is at left (from SABR archives) - the ears do not match so the face in question can't be Storke.

At right is Jimmy Doyle with the Cubs in 1911. The face in question is Doyle (whatever you are looking at, don't forget the ears). Also compare the hairlines in the side-by-side posted just above by RUKen.

bmarlowe1

11-22-2017, 11:38 AM

I believe that #6 is Mike Konnick:

Konnick
1911 Dayton (on the left)

For sure. The images are not clear but the head shape -chin- ear shape- hairline combination is so distinctive, and he was on the team, so that has to be Konnick.

Also I agree with Rhys on Castleton. I researched this photo (hats on version in Library of Congress) about 10 years ago when the online face reference resources were not nearly as good as now. Thanks guys for filling in some of the blanks.

bmarlowe1

11-22-2017, 12:17 PM

That leaves only one missing face (below right), #26.

At left is Wingo Anderson with Nashville in 1911. Center is a guy identified as Wingo Anderson in an RMY photo. This is our guy.

What is interesting is that in Mark Okkonen's "2000 Cups of Coffee" there is a completely different face identified as Wingo Anderson. Maybe just another "Wingo Anderson", I don't know. Also, the baseball-reference "Wingo Anderson' image seems to be yet another person. I don't know the source of their photo.

vthobby

11-22-2017, 03:58 PM

295916

Cincinnati Reds from spring training 1910 in Hot Springs Arkansas.

Some players still have their previous team sweater on or in the case of Jimmy Doyle, it appears he is wearing a St Louis sweater. Since he is a Rookie in 1910, it must have been an extra that he borrowed maybe from Fred Beebe who played in St Louis in 1909. It appears the uniform ordering system in 1910 was a bit slower than today's standards which is really of no surprise.

Numbered from left to right, with back row numbered 1 – 10, middle row numbered 11-19, front row numbered 20-27

1) Dode Paskert
2) Franz Hosp
3) Larry Cheney
4) Tom Downey
5) Swat McCabe
6) Mike Konnick
7) Rube Benton
8) Mike Mitchell
9) Larry McClean
10) Dick Hoblitzell
11) Fred Beebe
12) Harry Gaspar
13) Jack Rowan
14) Harry Coveleski
15) Clark Griffith
16) Tom Cantwell
17) Tommy Clarke
18) Frank Roth
19) Dick Egan
20) Roy Castleton
21) Jimmy Doyle
22) Bob Bescher
23) Ward Miller
24) Hans Lobert
25) George Suggs
26) Wingo Anderson
27) Batboy

Wow! In the span of a few short days, the entire 27 person RPPC has been identified. Thank you: RUKen, Bicem, Steve D, judsonhamlin, bmarlowe1, and prewarsports. Incredible knowledge base on here. Glad I'm a part of this community. Thanks gents!

Peace, Mike

RUKen

11-23-2017, 04:35 AM

#27 is not Brownie Burke, who was described in the papers as a dwarf. Burke is in Griffith's lap in another team photo taken in 1910:

vthobby

11-23-2017, 12:57 PM

#27 is not Brownie Burke, who was described in the papers as a dwarf. Burke is in Griffith's lap in another team photo taken in 1910:

Thanks! That is definitely not him! I'll just change #27 to Batboy.

Thanks again! HappyThanksgiving!

Peace, Mike

Fred

11-23-2017, 06:13 PM

No there you have it. This is why this bull board is GREAT. I wandered to this thread and was pleasantly surprised. Awesome stuff!