What You Don’t Know About The Hobby Could Fill This Thread

[frankbmd]

There must be something you don’t know about the hobby.

Ask a question about the hobby to learn the answer.

Feel free to educate us with the answer or simply ask another question.

Who was the first collector/dealer to use the term “beater” referring to a well-loved vintage card?

[Leon]

It has to be one of the OBC guys who invented the term Beater.

Who was the first collector to complete T206 (with Doyle and Magie but no other errors)?

[ramram]

Why is the quality of the cardboard more important than the quality of the image on a vintage card? Probably more of a rhetorical question as I am guessing it's because cardboard damage can be quantified while image quality is more subjective.

Rob M

[obcmac]

It has to be one of the OBC guys who invented the term Beater.



We actually call them Tiptons or Tipton Mint...after founding member and net54'er Larry Tipton (aka Guru). So I don't think we get credit for "beater".

[ALR-bishop]

How do you know the definitive checklist of a "master" set ?

How do you know if a card has a "real" variation ?

[trdcrdkid]

I'm not positive, but I think we called cards "beaters" when I was a kid, 35-40 years ago. I don't remember ever not being aware of the term.

[KMayUSA6060]

Why haven't there been adjustments in the variety of supplies as collecting has changed? i.e. More commonly available graded card pages, especially for SGC slabs, or pages that allow for tobacco-sized toploaders.

[sycks22]

Do you cringe when people would rather have an Aaron Judge blue refractor numbered out of 50 than a '52 Topps Mantle?

[conor912]

or pages that allow for tobacco-sized toploaders.

These fit them perfectly. You're welcome ☺️
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IPLAVJQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510764821&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=mini+9+pocket+pages&dpPl=1&dpID=41nylDBvbPL&ref=plSrch

[steve B]

Why haven't there been adjustments in the variety of supplies as collecting has changed? i.e. More commonly available graded card pages, especially for SGC slabs, or pages that allow for tobacco-sized toploaders.

The available supplies change, it just changes slowly. Lack of demand probably limits the pages for slabbed cards and pages for tobacco size toploaders. That some of the current stuff will work for most people also makes it a tough call to manufacture something new. Tobacco toploaders will fit in current 9 pocket pages, so making a special page might not be profitable.
They might get some traction if the A+G and Gypsy Queen minis get hot, but that's a few years away.

In the old days there were lots of choices for pages, many of them long gone. Sideloading 8 pockets? sideloading 9 pockets, 15 pocket, 12 pocket sized for 48-50 Bowmans....I haven't seen any of those in a few years, for the better in some instances.

[steve B]

And for my "I don't know"

I don't know why so many modern ish sets with limited availability get so little attention. I sort of get the "less common than the usual cards" sets being ignored, but the others?

[jerrys]

How can we improve the condition evaluation given on graded cards? A costly problem.

Quality is what determines the value of a baseball card. Yet we often see graded cards poorly graded. Over the past ten years for the rare coin hobby this situation has been corrected by the Certified Acceptance Corporation who will verify graded coins to meet their own strict quality standards. Only if the coin is solid for the grade will it receives a CAC sticker affixed to the slab. Solid meaning for that grade or higher-end - lower-end although still in grade are rejected. In the marketplace CAC coins sell for significantly higher prices than the same grade without CAC.
Perhaps some enterprising individual or group will follow a like business for this hobby.

[JLange]

Why is there so little information about the origin and distribution and reasons for producing so many sets? We are talking about events that occurred within the last 150 years or less, not thousands of years ago before writing. Is it just that the early collectors focused more on checklisting a set, and less about these other details? Or were most sets so poorly marketed and with so little contemporary awareness that they couldn’t figure it out?

[Hankphenom]

Great thread, I have two questions (for now.)

1) Who came up with a system whereby the difference between a 6 and a 7 can only be detected with an electron microscope whereas a 1 grade can be anything from a gorgeous card with severely rounded corners or minor paper loss on the back to a card that has been thrown into a puddle of diesel oil and run over several times by a tank? Did that come from coin grading?

2) Does the condition of the slab ever affect the desirability of the card? If so, how common is re-slabbing to get the card back into a pristine slab?

[Sean1125]

Do you cringe when people would rather have an Aaron Judge blue refractor numbered out of 50 than a '52 Topps Mantle?

No.

I respect that some divisions of the hobby collect modern cards, having an emotional connection to those players, while others collect vintage and established players having an emotional connection to those players.

Cringing at one party or the other seems rather judgmental to me.

You're both card collectors, how about if someone cringes because you are a card collector of any type? That wouldn't make you feel too good, would it?

[Stampsfan]

How about if someone cringes because you are a card collector of any type? That wouldn't make you feel too good, would it?

That happens to me all over the place, of course, from non-collectors.

When I happen to sell something at an auction that gets a few bucks, and I forward some buddies a link, it seems to get their attention. Of course, everyone can relate to the dollars, so it is an equalizing factor that non collectors can relate to.

The funniest looks were about a year ago. I had a card in a well known auction, and I had a buddy on my hockey team put his 1969 Camaro into Barrett-Jackson. I mentioned the competition between what would bring home a higher dollar, the Camaro or the Dimaggio.

In the end, the Camaro won, but not by much. It made some buddies think twice about my silly hobby.

[Sean]

Who was the first collector to complete T206 (with Doyle and Magie but no other errors)?

It must be Larry Fritsh. He discovered the first Doyle variation, and he owned a Wagner and Plank.

[slipk1068]

Has anyone ever completed T210? How far has anyone ever gotten with N172 Old Judge?

[Jobu]

Now this is awesome!

We actually call them Tiptons or Tipton Mint...after founding member and net54'er Larry Tipton (aka Guru). So I don't think we get credit for "beater".

[nat]

Why is there so little information about the origin and distribution and reasons for producing so many sets? We are talking about events that occurred within the last 150 years or less, not thousands of years ago before writing. Is it just that the early collectors focused more on checklisting a set, and less about these other details? Or were most sets so poorly marketed and with so little contemporary awareness that they couldn’t figure it out?

I'm going to take a guess on this one. My guess is: these are free give-aways meant as children's toys, and hence not something that anyone took seriously or bothered to keep records of. Once the guy from the marketing department who decided to put the set out buys the farm, that knowledge is lost because no one thought it was worth writing down.

[Econteachert205]

Great thread, I have two questions (for now.)

1) Who came up with a system whereby the difference between a 6 and a 7 can only be detected with an electron microscope whereas a 1 grade can be anything from a gorgeous card with severely rounded corners or minor paper loss on the back to a card that has been thrown into a puddle of diesel oil and run over several times by a tank? Did that come from coin grading?

2) Does the condition of the slab ever affect the desirability of the card? If so, how common is re-slabbing to get the card back into a pristine slab?

I can answer yes to 2. I had a Jordan star card I got destroyed on bc of a small slab crack. It puts off a lot of bidders.

[bnorth]

How do you know the definitive checklist of a "master" set ?

How do you know if a card has a "real" variation ?

Al, I don't think either of those questions can be answered correctly.:)

I am pretty sure I could easily fill a thread with my hobby knowledge. Also pretty sure a few forums could be filled with what I don't know about the hobby.:eek::D

[quinnsryche]

At what point did the advertising on the back of a card become more desirable than the photo on the front? :p

[Exhibitman]

Picture Packs. Who made the ones that weren't team issues? How were they sold?

[chalupacollects]

Serious question - Why do so many collectors/dealers not like the PSA SMR price guide and for that matter Becketts guides?

[Exhibitman]

Serious question - Why do so many collectors/dealers not like the PSA SMR price guide and for that matter Becketts guides?


Fake news.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

How can we improve the condition evaluation given on graded cards? A costly problem.

Quality is what determines the value of a baseball card. Yet we often see graded cards poorly graded. Over the past ten years for the rare coin hobby this situation has been corrected by the Certified Acceptance Corporation who will verify graded coins to meet their own strict quality standards. Only if the coin is solid for the grade will it receives a CAC sticker affixed to the slab. Solid meaning for that grade or higher-end - lower-end although still in grade are rejected. In the marketplace CAC coins sell for significantly higher prices than the same grade without CAC.
Perhaps some enterprising individual or group will follow a like business for this hobby.

So you want to pay for grading of already graded cards? Where does it end?

[frankbmd]

how can we improve the condition evaluation given on graded cards? A costly problem.

Quality is what determines the value of a baseball card. Yet we often see graded cards poorly graded. Over the past ten years for the rare coin hobby this situation has been corrected by the certified acceptance corporation who will verify graded coins to meet their own strict quality standards. Only if the coin is solid for the grade will it receives a cac sticker affixed to the slab. Solid meaning for that grade or higher-end - lower-end although still in grade are rejected. In the marketplace cac coins sell for significantly higher prices than the same grade without cac.
Perhaps some enterprising individual or group will follow a like business for this hobby.

he

pwcc

b & b

[Tom Hufford]

Has anyone ever completed T210? How far has anyone ever gotten with N172 Old Judge?
Bill Haber had a complete set of T210s. If Paul Pollard didn't have a complete set, he was mighty close.

[JollyElm]

Why is a card that is only 'worth' $10 suddenly worth hundreds of dollars more when it is placed inside a plastic tomb with a high number by a third party grader??

[Jantz]

Why is a card that is only 'worth' $10 suddenly worth hundreds of dollars more when it is placed inside a plastic tomb with a high number by a third party grader??

Because someone is willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a card worth $10 in a plastic tomb.

[Republicaninmass]

Because someone. ELSE is willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a card worth $10 in a plastic tomb.

Edited!

[Sean]

Because someone is willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a card worth $10 in a plastic tomb.

Yeah, but why? Why does that case become more valuable than the card?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Edited!

another great contribution to net54...and pure conjecture......oh and nice card..

[Jason]

Has anyone ever completed T210? How far has anyone ever gotten with N172 Old Judge?

I have never seen any proof or statements from fellow collectors of a complete T210 set. There is a gentleman on the SGC registry that has a "retired" near complete set. Perhaps he had the missing cards not listed in raw form?

[ALR-bishop]

Competition

[czg123]

been trying to find out who created 9 card protector sheets and when they hit the industry!


www.athcards.com

[Baseball Rarities]

I have never seen any proof or statements from fellow collectors of a complete T210 set. There is a gentleman on the SGC registry that has a "retired" near complete set. Perhaps he had the missing cards not listed in raw form?

Bill Haber definitely completed the set and, AFAIK, it is still together in a very advanced collection.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Why are so many trimmed/altered cards being graded with high grades?

[Vintagecatcher]

Ralph from NH, who I met once told me he had but sold his complete T210 set.

Patrick

[Yoda]

When will the term vintage cards be replaced by awesome cards?

[philliesphan]

What does a "complete" Zeenut checklist look like?

There are way too many cards that are believed to exist, or may have once existed but no longer do - cards that were erroneously included in the checklist. How I'd love to have more clarity on the full extent of that 25+ year run of PCL cards

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Why is a card that is only 'worth' $10 suddenly worth hundreds of dollars more when it is placed inside a plastic tomb with a high number by a third party grader??

At the root of it? Dickholes lie.

Arthur

[Jason]

Bill Haber definitely completed the set and, AFAIK, it is still together in a very advanced collection.

Thank you for sharing that information. It would be cool to see that set scanned and displayed one day maybe.

[Jason]

Ralph from NH, who I met once told me he had but sold his complete T210 set.

Patrick

I have read some of his archived posts and he seems like a passionate T210 collector. The Red Border Breakdown thread is one of my favorites.

[frankbmd]

Ralph from NH, who I met once told me he had but sold his complete T210 set.

Patrick

This begs the question,

How many Ralphs are from New Hampshire?

or

Is Ralph from NH the only Ralph from NH that knows what a T210 is?:eek:

[pbspelly]

Where did the term "slabbed" come from?

[steve B]

been trying to find out who created 9 card protector sheets and when they hit the industry!


www.athcards.com

The first ones I saw were in an album kit sold at retail. I got mine in 1974, but I'm pretty sure they were available slightly earlier.

I can't find pics on the web, so I'll have to take some when I find mine. I still have the pages too, so I'll be able to post the manufacturer.

[T205 GB]

Were T205's part of a larger set? What was the other "Subjects" they refer to?

I do believe they were part of the Bird and Military Card group. IMO

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

How were W575-2 and W502 released? They ain't strip cards.

Arthur

[Jcfowler6]

Why is the quality of the cardboard more important than the quality of the image on a vintage card? Probably more of a rhetorical question as I am guessing it's because cardboard damage can be quantified while image quality is more subjective.



Rob M



I was seriously talking to some about this exact thing just days ago. I said I collect moments in time and condition isn’t all that important. What do you collect? The history and art of it or paper?


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[Jcfowler6]

Do you cringe when people would rather have an Aaron Judge blue refractor numbered out of 50 than a '52 Topps Mantle?



Yes! And even worse with these new electronic cards. They are dropping big money on them. It’s crazy.


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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Why do people buy cards for $59 and $87 on ebay then price them on the BST less than a week later for $1250 and $1800 respectively? I'm as much a capitalist as anyone else but wow! :eek:

[nat]

What's an electronic card?

[Jcfowler6]

What's an electronic card?



They do them on their phones. They have autographed cards. Patches. But it is completely digital.


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[Jcfowler6]

https://www.google.com/search?q=baseball+electronic+cards&client=safari&hl=en-us&biw=414&bih=602&noj=1&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6jOnvhsfXAhXnhVQKHSjDDS8Q_AUIwgIoAg#im grc=b3GywhtnHVzaiM:



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[brianp-beme]

How were W575-2 and W502 released? They ain't strip cards.

Arthur

I remembered that I had seen that someone had determined the manufacturer of the W575-2 set, but don't recall any info on how they were distributed. They definitely are not a strip set. Here is the (partial) Wikipedia entry on them:

1922 W 575-2 are a vintage set of baseball cards originally issued by the Kromo Gravue Photo Company out of Detroit Michigan. The set contains 40 blank backed, black and white cards with a number of Hall Of Fame players. Sometimes called the "autograph on shoulder" series because of their facsimile signatures, these cards measure 2-1/8" x 3-3/8".

[Leon]

I remembered that I had seen that someone had determined the manufacturer of the W575-2 set, but don't recall any info on how they were distributed. They definitely are not a strip set. Here is the (partial) Wikipedia entry on them:

1922 W 575-2 are a vintage set of baseball cards originally issued by the Kromo Gravue Photo Company out of Detroit Michigan. The set contains 40 blank backed, black and white cards with a number of Hall Of Fame players. Sometimes called the "autograph on shoulder" series because of their facsimile signatures, these cards measure 2-1/8" x 3-3/8".

Probably not a strip set but at least one short strip is known (not mine any longer)...Don't get me started on strip cards :)....They are still the wild west for the TPG's.....

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Probably not a strip set but at least one short strip is known (not mine any longer)...Don't get me started on strip cards :)....They are still the wild west for the TPG's.....

Does that count as a strip? Looking at the back, they're clearly not meant to be separated. I'd be surprised if that item had any direct connection to the set other than the manufacturer of the schedule had access to those Detroit photos and used them just as that, photos for the reverse.

Arthur

[Jcfowler6]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171118/45e2c7de9feb87227b9a90a70c0f9ac1.jpg

Where did these type of things come from? And how did one obtain them?


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[oldjudge]

I have never seen any proof or statements from fellow collectors of a complete T210 set. There is a gentleman on the SGC registry that has a "retired" near complete set. Perhaps he had the missing cards not listed in raw form?

I know of three sets completed in the last five years as well as two sets just a few cards short (not counting the guy from New Hampshire). Hard, but not impossible to complete.

[Spike]

The late 40s PCL team sets for Remar Bread (Oakland), Sommer & Kaufmann (SF), and Smith's (Oakland) all use the same print size, basic design, and similar photos. Is it fair to say they're produced by the same print shop with sponsorship from those Bay Area business? If so, what shop did the actual printing?

[familytoad]

Of the many, many things I don’t know...

Which were the first cards that were numbered?

There are a few early sets that were checklisted ,but those predate numbers. Example T3, E95,96,98 ...checklist on reverse, un-numbered on the card. I suppose I don’t know which was first to provide a checklist either:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[x2drich2000]

Of the many, many things I don’t know...

Which were the first cards that were numbered?

There are a few early sets that were checklisted ,but those predate numbers. Example T3, E95,96,98 ...checklist on reverse, un-numbered on the card. I suppose I don’t know which was first to provide a checklist either:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Brian, not sure if they were the first, but T3, at least the checklist back, has the cards numbered as well as the checklist.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4394/36674035500_f75c0184d9_z.jpg

[familytoad]

Yup, I know they have the numbers on the back....but the cards aren’t numbered themselves. T3 could be the earliest checklist, but I don’t know...which Frank would say...is the point of this thread :p

[frankbmd]

Yup, I know they have the numbers on the back....but the cards aren’t numbered themselves. T3 could be the earliest checklist, but I don’t know...which Frank would say...is the point of this thread :p

You are compelling me to respond. The T3 Checklist shown has the No. 32 printed above the checklist. I would be willing to bet that Mr. Overall is on the other side. The large number above the checklist is "the number"of the player's card on the front. So the cards are numbered themselves.

[familytoad]

Frank, I cannot believe i’ve Overlooked Overall (and all others!)

I have 8-10 Turkey Reds and I can say that while they are evidently numbered, I never even noticed the number at the top !! :cool::eek:

I’m not officially blind but certainly feel it after you pointing out the obvious!

So are the T3 the first with checklist and numbers?

[Republicaninmass]

Frank, I cannot believe i’ve Overlooked Overall (and all others!)

I have 8-10 Turkey Reds and I can say that while they are evidently numbered, I never even noticed the number at the top !! :cool::eek:

I’m not officially blind but certainly feel it after you pointing out the obvious!

So are the T3 the first with checklist and numbers?

The ad backs are not!

[frankbmd]

The ad backs are not!

Fake Turkeys! :D

[buymycards]

Why does Goodwin spend so much time and effort with their lavish descriptions of the lots in their catalog if they aren't going to proof read them? I am only interested in one lot, #832, so that is the only description that I read. There are 3 typos and 1 missing word.