Forgeries, how low does it go?

[pbspelly]

Been reading "Operation Bullpen" and finding it fascinating and disturbing, but also noticed that the forgeries invariably involve really famous stars and celebrities. Which makes sense, since that's where the money is. But what about signatures of more common players, how much do I need to worry about the authenticity of those too?

For example, here's a listing for a signed photo of my granddad Billy Sullivan https://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLY-SULLIVAN-BROOKLY-DODGERS-SIGNED-JSA-STICKER-8X10-PHOTO-AUTHENTIC-AUTOGRAPH/401419889635?hash=item5d767d6be3:g:rBsAAOxy9X5TXbY 2&rmvSB=true. The auto looks like the signature on letters I have, but more than that, I can't imagine a forger bothering to learn how to forge small fry players who aren't going to sell for a lot. Is this a reasonable assumption, or am I giving them too much credit, and underestimating the amount of forgeries in the business? I would note that this other listed signature of his doesn't look so good to me, despite its COA.https://www.ebay.com/itm/BILLY-SULLIVAN-JR-SIGNED-AUTOGRAPHED-ONL-BASEBALL-White-Sox-Reds-Tigers-JSA/192339143357?hash=item2cc84e6abd:g:jIcAAOSwOdpX0zg C

And what about someone like my great grandfather, whose was no Babe Ruth, but whose autograph, if real, is apparently worth a few hundred dollars due to its scarcity (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Billy-Sullivan-Autographed-Signed-1961-Fleer-Card-White-Sox-Signed-Twice-PSA-DNA/372113897525?hash=item56a3b77835:g:FgQAAOSwICpZ7j-V. Do forgers do this kind of obscure stuff, or do they really only focus on big names whose autographs would be desirable for someone not knowledgeable about sports memorabilia? Las Vegas tourists, for instance, or someone who just wants a signed Jeter?

[bnorth]

You can go on eBay and find forgeries of average players selling for a few dollars that are fake. It is not just high end autographs, it is all autographs that get forged.

[Ryan1125]

It goes as low as you could imagine. If a seller can scribble on their worthless base card and turn it into $1, they'll do it. No one is safe sadly.

[Mr. Zipper]

There are sellers who continuously offer forged low value signatures on 3x5 cards or common baseball cards. These are $5 signatures or people you can get through the mail for free... and they are faking them! Nothing is immune to being faked. Nothing.

Do the math. 30 $3 fakes a week, all year long for 10 years. There are some sellers who have been doing it literally for a decade or longer.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I call them Kitchen Table Forgers.


https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ebay-seller-magnetqueen-sells-forged-derek-jeter-card

[bravos4evr]

I collect Braves only, and have seen forged Gregg Olsen sigs, faked Eddie Perez...etc! It boggled my mind that someone would bother with either but...people are greedy.

One thing seeing that fake Olsen did was teach me that I needed to learn my sigs as much as possible and also find some reliable resources to use for comparison. Don't assume just because this is the backup catcher that the auto will be genuine. LEARN YOUR PLAYER AUTOS!

:)

[thetruthisoutthere]

There are sellers who continuously offer forged low value signatures on 3x5 cards or common baseball cards. These are $5 signatures or people you can get through the mail for free... and they are faking them! Nothing is immune to being faked. Nothing.

Do the math. 30 $3 fakes a week, all year long for 10 years. There are some sellers who have been doing it literally for a decade or longer.

+1

Absolutely.

[pbspelly]

Disheartening. Thanks

[thetruthisoutthere]

Disheartening. Thanks

There are hundreds upon hundreds of Kitchen Table forgers selling on Ebay.

[Ryan1125]

Exhibit A:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/lock-em-up-bob/m.html?item=122770898812&hash=item1c95b73f7c%3Ag%3AJawAAOSwKQ9Z7qiN&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

PSA/DNA has been fooled by these as well, these will forever taint the hobby. It's sickening.

5 pages of feedback from the last month alone. Scribbling on your old base cards is a lucrative business on eBay.

[pbspelly]

Exhibit A:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/lock-em-up-bob/m.html?item=122770898812&hash=item1c95b73f7c%3Ag%3AJawAAOSwKQ9Z7qiN&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

PSA/DNA has been fooled by these as well, these will forever taint the hobby. It's sickening.

5 pages of feedback from the last month alone. Scribbling on your old base cards is a lucrative business on eBay.

Interesting choice of eBay user names, Lock-Em-Up-Bob. He's done over 5000 transactions but says he's "not a pro dealer so no COA."

[Il Padrino]

I would think that forging even an average players signature has to be beneficial in the long term for the person talented enough to pass them off. A few bucks here and a few bucks there can really add up when selling in volume. The average person would not take the risk but these people are pros and think nothing of it.

Then there are the ones that seek out a skilled hand to produce some of the rarer autos in the industry. When you do a search for "what are the rarest sports autographs" < those would make a nice starting point for this type of person then they'd add in the HOF'er autos and players that have died as well = big money. This happens a lot more than most of us would like to admit... and when it does it is prudent to report it in the hobby...

Then there are the kings of forgeries that go in to all aspects of the sports collecting industry (e.g. autos, uniforms, etc.). This article talks about one of the kings of the hobby that is making big rocks in to little rocks because... well... he BROKE THE LAW a lot.

https://deadspin.com/5818225/the-downfall-of-barry-halper-baseball-collectings-bernie-madoff

[thetruthisoutthere]

I would think that forging even an average players signature has to be beneficial in the long term for the person talented enough to pass them off. A few bucks here and a few bucks there can really add up when selling in volume. The average person would not take the risk but these people are pros and think nothing of it.

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They stay under the radar that way.