Baseball Autograph Book from 1941-1942

[muggsy]

Hey guys, I just thought this is something fun to share, and I haven't found anyone with as much interest in it as me.
I was given an autograph book my grandfather had. The book itself is in pretty poor condition but there are these pages that survived.

I believe all signatures are from 1942 Spring Training (in Florida; Tampa/Clearwater area)

There are more than 80 signatures in this book including 9 HoF—Mel Ott, Casey Stengel, Pee Wee Reese, Stan Musial, Lloyd "Little Poison" Waner, Paul "Big Poison" Waner, Ernie Lombardi, Enos Slaughter, Billy Southworth, also Hiram Bithorn (the first player from Puerto Rico) and more. Both MVP and "Top Pitcher" (no Cy Young awarded yet) of the year.

There's a Stan Musial that is before his 1942 rookie season. He played only 12 games, in 1941, at this point. This is probably worth the most if I were to guess; since it is one of his first autographs he'd signed.

Also it being 1942, it's pre-war and a majority of these guys went to military service after this.

Instead of a bunch of images, I made this giant collage for now.
I believe all are identified now!

https://s1.postimg.org/1gig3d5b3j/COLLAGE-1_2.jpg
https://s1.postimg.org/2v9t9jxmrj/book-small.jpg



I don't know what something like this could be worth. But I'm really curious what it could draw. It'd cost a thousand to get it PSA authenticated and that's not worth it to me (when I know firsthand he didn't forge them too.) Right now I have no intention on selling it, I like having it. But I'd also like to know what sort of interest it draws too, and if there's a ballpark figure I could put on it.

EDIT:
So here is a big list of signatures identified. Sorry they are going to be all over the place from the pictures you see.

NYG
#Hank Leiber
*Mel Ott
Bubber Jonnard (coach)

NYG
Ace Adams
Anthony "Tony" DiBartolo (minors)
Gus Mancuso (traded to STL in '42)

BRO
Les Webber
Augie Galan
*Pee Wee Reese

STL
*Stan Musial (rookie)

STL
*Enos Slaughter
Harry Gumbert
Harry Walker
Howard "Howie" Pollet

STL
*Mort Cooper (MVP of '42)

STL
Marty Marion

STL
#Whitey Kurowski
Creepy Crespi

STL
*Billy Southworth
Leo Ward (traveling secretary)

CIN
#Hank Sauer
Joe Abreu
Joe Beggs
Gee Walker
Ival Goodman

CIN
#Lonny Frey
Ival Goodman
Dick West
Bucky Walters
Eddie Joost

PIT
Pete Coscarart
Bob Klinger
Hank Gornicki
#Rip Sewell

PIT
#Bob Elliott
John Lanning
Jim Wasdell
Luke Hamlin

PHI
Al Glossop
Dan Litwhiler
Bob Bragan
Johnny Podgajny
Walter "Boom-Boom" Beck
Hans Lobert (manager)

PHI
*Lloyd Waner
Frank "Lefty" Hoerst
Benny Culp
Earl Naylor

PHI
Frank "Rube" Melton
Merrill "Pinky" May
Ernie Koy
Mickey Livingston
Si Johnson

PHI
Gordon Pixley


BSN
Lou Tost
Manuel Salvo
*Casey Stengel
*Paul Waner

BSN
Al "Skippy" Roberge
#Phil Masi
"Tom" Dunn (NL Umpire; well-known then)
Al Javery
Jimmy Wallace
John Cooney

BSN
Sibby Sisti
Chet Ross
Clyde Kluttz

BSN
#Eddie Miller
Tommy Holmes
Dick Errickson

BSN
Frank Demaree
*Ernie Lombardi

CHC
Lou Stringer

CHC
Ed Hanyzewski
Lennie Merullo
Claude Passeau

CHC
#Hiram "Hi" Bithorn

CHC
Lou Stringer
Chico Hernandez
Bill Fleming
Bill Nicholson

[muggsy]

https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/u2/mi7eyr00374y.jpg

https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/oq/y77bc5dx6cbp.jpg

https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/7k/jbxlnb2ns9xh.jpg

https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/qs/alnicgczh0m9.jpg

https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/93/r8j1sx84usr9.jpg

[muggsy]

I don't know who this one is:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/he/rz6f8631owgg.jpg

[btcarfagno]

I haven't looked through in great detail to see if there are any "hidden gems" (players who are obscure and died young and tough to find). That said, what I do see with Ott and Southworth and Bithorn and an early Musial, you are likely looking at around $600-800 value.

Tom C

[theshleps]

I'd say you might be able to get 1200-1500

[muggsy]

I haven't looked through in great detail to see if there are any "hidden gems" (players who are obscure and died young and tough to find). That said, what I do see with Ott and Southworth and Bithorn and an early Musial, you are likely looking at around $600-800 value.

Tom C

Bithorn was murdered in 1951, if we can consider 35 young...
I haven't typed out the full list of player names yet for the hidden gems that I missed—such as those who died young or didn't return to baseball after the war, etc.
There are also some I like such as Ernie Lombardi, Enos Slaughter, Paul Waner, Lloyd Waner.
St. Louis won the World Series in 1942, and there are quite a few of the Cardinals including Southworth, their HoF manager.

[muggsy]

Some I haven't identified:

*under Mel Ott
*under MMarion
*under Southworth
*uppermost-righthand corner... looks something like Puxley?
*below that looks like Neil Cooper, but I don't know who that is.
*under Hank Sauer, Joe Abreu, Joe Beggs, is it Gee Walker?

[muggsy]

I'm a little surprised those quotes are that "low." At that, I'd rather just keep it. Which makes me think a serious collector would pay more. The condition is poor but it's still very cool, and I thought maybe rare, memorabilia. Much of the '42 WS Cards, 8 Hall of Famers, historical ones like Hi Bithorn, and we'll see what else we can uncover.

[Ryan1125]

If this was my Grandpa's I would definitely hold on to it and cherish it. Regardless of the price you get, it will always be "worth" more to you, knowing your Grandfather got these personally.

One major issue with items like this is they are very hard to display, while at the same time, not something you want handled all the time. To most people (buyers), it's just a big book of signatures, most of which they can't even identify. Usually what ends up happening is sellers start ripping pages out, and these end up becoming individual "cuts". That's all fine and dandy if you're looking for pure profit, but I tend to enjoy the "story" of your Grandfather obtaining all of these, as opposed to a little 2" cut autograph with no backstory.

Good luck, cool item!

[bender07]

Agreed that you should hold onto it. Great memory of your grandfather. Also agree with Tom that $800 is about as high as you could expect due to what Ryan detailed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[muggsy]

Just for reference, my grandfather actually wants me to sell it. He owned a jewelry store, and his motto was always to sell, not hold on to. He'd say, and did, to sell it lol. I still somewhat disagree with him, yes. It's something really neat to me. But I wanted to see what max value on it would be. Mostly though, show it off and see if anyone even cares about it lol

[muggsy]

.

[btcarfagno]

With all of the auction houses nowadays, I see maybe 15-20 similar autograph books every year come up for auction. Unfortunately they are not worth the sum of their parts. Someone looking for a Mel Ott won't pay the extra for all of the other autographs he doesn't want. He can also likely find a signed index card or GPC with just Ott instead of a cramped signature as one of ten signatures on a page. A dealer won't pay full price either as a collector likely wouldn't happen to want all of these same autographs. It is worth the most to someone who will "harvest" the signatures and cut up the album to sell them off individually.

This maybe you take the five biggest and most valuable names and add up their value and that is a good indication of the total value upon sale.

Tom C

[muggsy]

I almost regret saying it's my grandfather's, because that's bring up value a lot more than worth. If you knew my grandfather, you'd know he was serious when he says, "you better sell all my stuff after I die." This included a lot of jewelry that family doesn't want to sell either lol. He would WANT me to sell it—and give me a pffft if I said I'd rather keep it. I agree with you guys however that its value has a lot more worth than $800. Selling it isn't my first intention.

[theshleps]

I do think it is awful when people cut these up. I have 2 very nice whole albums from the 1930's that are highlights of my collection tho as Tom said the money is in cutting them up. Maybe you'd get $2,000. I'd hold onto it

[muggsy]

Musial is an interesting one. It's from spring 1942—so leading into his rookie season. It makes it among his first autographs. At some point then he changed his signature into his autograph with the classic 'S'. There are signatures, signed forms and the such, that also show him once signing this way. When he changed and how relatively rare that makes this is something I'm trying to find out.

As I know it's real, this is one I will probably look into authenticating in the best way. Luckily it might also be the signature in best condition and without others around it.

https://s1.postimg.org/1rae4c1n1r/Mcswm.jpg

[mrmopar]

Said just about everyone ever trying to sell something

I'm a little surprised those quotes are that "low." At that, I'd rather just keep it. Which makes me think a serious collector would pay more.

In all seriousness, I would agree with most that already commented that the value comes from splitting up and selling to folks that want one or a few of the keys. The bulk of signatures in books like this wouldn't make most collectors look twice. I suppose there may be some sentimental value for a book like this, but honestly, a bunch of otherwise random signatures as a group is not all that meaningful to most.

I personally think the worst part of splitting up a book like this is the destroying of some good signatures to harvest better ones when they are signed too close together or when the signatures intertwine with each other slightly. Keeping a single page in those cases would have saved them. I hate those old autographs from books that were cut around the signature in the exact shape of the autograph itself. Not quite to that extreme, but close...

[muggsy]

Thanks, guys! Sounds like keep it is the consensus here. I think it's really cool, so that value sounds worth more, I suppose.

I think this rookie Musial might be my "favorite," and seems the most "rare" to me.
https://s1.postimg.org/1rae4c1n1r/Mcswm.jpg

It's on a clean page where it wouldn't be an odd shaped cut. It seems to have a lot more history—and would be among his first autographs.
I wonder level of interest in this alone for any Cards/Musial fan especially.

[muggsy]

[removed because identified]

[jdunevant]

One thing we CAN still do is identify the few left.

(4)
Is the one below Mel Ott really Bubber Jonnard? What was he doing in 1942?

Per Wikipedia, Jonnard was a coach for the NY Giants from 1942-46

[bender07]

Musial is an interesting one. It's from spring 1942—so leading into his rookie season. It makes it among his first autographs. At some point then he changed his signature into his autograph with the classic 'S'. There are signatures, signed forms and the such, that also show him once signing this way. When he changed and how relatively rare that makes this is something I'm trying to find out.



As I know it's real, this is one I will probably look into authenticating in the best way. Luckily it might also be the signature in best condition and without others around it.



https://s1.postimg.org/1rae4c1n1r/Mcswm.jpg



Nice early Musial for sure but his rookie season is ‘41

[muggsy]

Per Wikipedia, Jonnard was a coach for the NY Giants from 1942-46

Geez, how'd I miss that. I checked baseball-reference and the "Teams" on the right on the Wiki page, but didn't read the body of the article...

[muggsy]

Nice early Musial for sure but his rookie season is ‘41

Well, I guess it's sort of semantics in how I said it. He played in 1941, but in only 12 games making 1942 his "rookie season" officially. But you could say 1941 is his rookie year.
What's nice about this is it was before the 1942 season. So he had only 12 MLB games under his belt.

[muggsy]

I just realized Mort Cooper won MVP in 1942 when this was signed.

https://s1.postimg.org/1g4fogpwpr/20171014_171102-1.jpg

[muggsy]

Now that the 1 left I've concluded is Gordon Pixley, all of the ones shown have been identified! 10 HOFers and the best players of 1942; quite a collection there!

If you check this out, I have All-1942 Team's #1, #2, or #1&2, at every position, including SP+RP. Top Pitcher & MVP. WS Manager.
This is fascinating to me, though I guess there's nothing to do with it but admire it myself. Maybe someone is a huge fan of the 1942 season haha

http://www.thebaseballgauge.com/year.php?yearID=1942&tab=bypos&lgID=NL

[Topnotchsy]

That's a really cool piece.

Did your grandfather provide info on how he got the signatures? Not asking for authenticity purposes, but for the story. It sounds like for during the 1942 season he went to Spring Training or hit up a lot of games or something?

[muggsy]

That's a really cool piece.

Did your grandfather provide info on how he got the signatures? Not asking for authenticity purposes, but for the story. It sounds like for during the 1942 season he went to Spring Training or hit up a lot of games or something?

I never got to ask specifically, but I know he vacationed a friend in Clearwater down there (and eventually bought a condo there, but not until much later.) So it must have been one year he was down there, going to a bunch of games or workouts to collect the NL teams that were playing in that area. (Otherwise, too bad he didn't get a Ted Williams or DiMaggio.)

Eventually my uncle (as a young child) got a hold of it one day and drew those red lines, and ruined the condition of the pages/book. Grr! I imagine my grandfather was agonized and furious. The Cubs players got it worst, despite being a Cubs fan living in the Chicago area. Interesting is that there are very few Cubs. Maybe he kept those separately? Luckily some of the best in here, like the Stan Musial, is in very good condition.

I find it so cool—but maybe collectors that have access to all of these guys in better condition don't find it as intriguing. :p

[muggsy]

I thought this was nice too...
For the All-1942 team, including MVP, Top Pitcher (no Cy Young yet), top hitter, WS manager, I have I have #1, #2, or #1 and #2 at every spot, except 1B...

thebaseballgauge.com (http://www.thebaseballgauge.com/year.php?yearID=1942&tab=bypos&lgID=NL)

[Topnotchsy]

I never got to ask specifically, but I know he vacationed a friend in Clearwater down there (and eventually bought a condo there, but not until much later.) So it must have been one year he was down there, going to a bunch of games or workouts to collect the NL teams that were playing in that area. (Otherwise, too bad he didn't get a Ted Williams or DiMaggio.)

Eventually my uncle (as a young child) got a hold of it one day and drew those red lines, and ruined the condition of the pages/book. Grr! I imagine my grandfather was agonized and furious. The Cubs players got it worst, despite being a Cubs fan living in the Chicago area. Interesting is that there are very few Cubs. Maybe he kept those separately? Luckily some of the best in here, like the Stan Musial, is in very good condition.

I find it so cool—but maybe collectors that have access to all of these guys in better condition don't find it as intriguing. :p

For me (and this is just my perspective) there are 2 ways to look at this. One can view it as a collection of signatures (for which one can start considering the value of the individual signatures etc and work from there) or as a piece that captures a time and story in history.

For me a lot depends on how much story can be attached to it. The more specific and more detailed, the more (to me) it captures a time in history, and the story of an individual (as WWII created a shadow over the whole world) getting a chance to meet some of the great ballplayers of the day, getting their signatures, and experiencing baseball in a way that pretty much ceased to exist for a few years afterwards (and ultimately changed dramatically with all the changes that occurred after WWII, including but not limited to integration.)

[witster]

For me (and this is just my perspective) there are 2 ways to look at this. One can view it as a collection of signatures (for which one can start considering the value of the individual signatures etc and work from there) or as a piece that captures a time and story in history.

For me a lot depends on how much story can be attached to it. The more specific and more detailed, the more (to me) it captures a time in history, and the story of an individual (as WWII created a shadow over the whole world) getting a chance to meet some of the great ballplayers of the day, getting their signatures, and experiencing baseball in a way that pretty much ceased to exist for a few years afterwards (and ultimately changed dramatically with all the changes that occurred after WWII, including but not limited to integration.)

Top, as a signed ball collector, I think you could look at it, as all of the above. It IS a moment in time. A specific moment. They were there to sign the ball, and it usually it happens the same day.

The tricky stories come out when you have an unexplained auto on a ball- a batboy, a bus driver, trainer, secretary, umpire, or a scout. It really makes researching, a time intensive effort.

Other head scratching autos come from some unexplained appearance from someone within baseball appearing at a game for any of unknown reasons. Its also possible baseballs were harder to come by and this was the signed ball kind of thing, so lets get it signed.

Kudos for the effort put forth. Witster

[Topnotchsy]

Top, as a signed ball collector, I think you could look at it, as all of the above. It IS a moment in time. A specific moment. They were there to sign the ball, and it usually it happens the same day.

The tricky stories come out when you have an unexplained auto on a ball- a batboy, a bus driver, trainer, secretary, umpire, or a scout. It really makes researching, a time intensive effort.

Other head scratching autos come from some unexplained appearance from someone within baseball appearing at a game for any of unknown reasons. Its also possible baseballs were harder to come by and this was the signed ball kind of thing, so lets get it signed.

Kudos for the effort put forth. Witster

I definitely hear you. I have a couple of balls from Stan Musial's personal collection that were signed by his WWII teammates, and it's been fascinating trying to research where the ball might have been signed and who the other guys were (a few played in the MLB, but most did not.)

[witster]

I definitely hear you. I have a couple of balls from Stan Musial's personal collection that were signed by his WWII teammates, and it's been fascinating trying to research where the ball might have been signed and who the other guys were (a few played in the MLB, but most did not.)


Try this link

http://www.baseballinwartime.com/

It has extensive WWII baseball info. Witster

[muggsy]

I think you're both exactly right. That's also why I was surprised to find out it's worth more to people with individual names cut out. The history might not pass on in a sale but it's a great piece. From 1942, right before these guys left for military—10 HoF that were playing/managing at the time. To me, that is where all the value is. It's something for me to admire, but it'd have to be someone buying the history as much as the individual autographs within.

It was a lot of fun for me to identify all the names in the book. I feel accomplished IDing every signature in the book with help from boards, getting even a traveling secretary. The hardest to ID, I think we finally have, as an International League player, that showed up once for Philly ST, never played in MLB, and then went to war. Figuring it out had all the worth than the autograph, of course.

Looking at Baseball Gauge All-1942 Team (http://www.thebaseballgauge.com/year.php?yearID=1942&tab=bypos&lgID=NL)
I have basically all of the best (NL) players of 1942. I suppose it's more "wow" to me than anyone else. And that it's immediately before the war.

I'm still admiring the March 1942 Stan Musial, before his rookie season, and that he tracked down the rookie and had him sign a clean page. Also before Stan changed his signature, probably for quicker signing. Again, something very intriguing to me, but collectors have seen it all and aren't interested in the story.

Also Hans Lobert who played since 1903, true deadball. He hit his first HR in 1907. He came back in 1942 to manage the Phillies, finished 42-109 and never managed again. Cool to me, probably worthless to any "buyer."