T205 SPs with Piedmont 42

[t206kid]

Anyone know why it seems some of the T205 SPs seem to have a disproportionate number of Piedmont 42's?

[Leon]

In my very brief (relatively speaking) collecting of T205 I haven't really noticed that. That said, I am not focused on T205 backs like I used to be and they might be disproportionate. I was doing my current set in as many PB and HLC backs as possible but opted to go for the best fronts I can find, which meet my criteria. Collect what ya like, right? :)

[T205 GB]

No SP's should have Pied 42 backs. What cards are you referring too?

[sterlingfox]

No SP's should have Pied 42 backs. What cards are you referring too?

Not true.

I own an Ed Walsh PD 42, which is a short print.

[Thromdog]

291407
291408

[Ronnie73]

I have a PSA 4 Kirb White Piedmont 42. I thought that card was also a short print. I know there's a couple levels of short prints, just can't find that file at the moment.

[T205 GB]

White, Scanlan, Walsh are not SP's. Just because someone 100 years ago said they were SP's doesn't mean they are. Information is easily available now. White, Scanlan, Walsh, ect, are found with 5 different backs and have many copies graded and known. They may be a bit tougher than say Titus or Beck but are readily available. These guys fall into the category of cards like McElveen, and Daubert. Just a toughy is all. The SP's in the set are the ML cards, Bresnahan Mouth Open, Joss, Raymond, Donohue, ect, ect. These cards are only found with 2-3 back, Pied 25, Hassan, and Cycle, and have less of a print run.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Would love to know the full list you speak of T205 GB. Every resource I've seen lists them as SP's. Did you create your own list? Not bashing your opinion but just curious. I've always personally thought there are way too many Scanlan's to be considered SP but never have heard anyone else agree.

[t206kid]

Do you consider Vaughn and/or Sweeney SP? In the 4ish months since I started T205s I've seen several of them with Piedmont 42 and haven't seen more than a handful of other cards with more than one Piedmont 42. I'll post what I consider SP when I get home.

[tedzan]

I agree with Andrew.

Take for example Jake Daubert. He is a tough T205 to find (regardless of it's back). Now, I don't think this card was actually
"short-printed", or whatever.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/T205JakeDaubert50x.jpg


But, I can tell you this for a fact: Jake Daubert is a tough card mainly due to the fact that Daubert has quite a "following" in the coal mining
region of Pennsylvania. He was born in Shamokin, PA and played semi-pro ball in Lykens, PA before playing for Brooklyn.

I set up at several BB card shows in Pennsylvania. I usually bring 10-15 Daubert cards to these shows (most of these cards are raw). These
cards are always sold by the end of the show. Therefore, in this case the Pop Reports regarding Daubert will be mis-leading.

Jake Daubert was a pretty darn good ballplayer with a .303 career BA. He was the NL batting Champion in 1913 (.350) and in 1914 (.329)

A very well liked and respected ballplayer of his era (1910 - 1924).


TED Z
.
T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)

[t206kid]

Ted: that's interesting. I've noted in my spreadsheet which commons I think are "tough" but didn't note that for Daubert.

These are the SPs I've noted: Dahlen, Donohue, Fischer, Grant, Joss, Karger, Kleinow, Raymond, Rowan, Scanlan, Suggs, Sweeney, Turner, Vaughn, Wagner,
Walsh, White, Wilhelm.

Which do y'all think aren't actually SP?

[Ronnie73]

I found the list I was using. It may not be right for everyone but I split up the Short Prints into two groups. Group one being more rare than Group two with maybe the exception of Wilhelm. I like to get group one's with Cycle backs and group two's with Piedmont 42's with the exception again with Wilhelm. Wilhelm should maybe be in a group three. This is in no way the right list but just the list I use and just wanted to share with others.

Group One
JIGGS DONAHUE
EDWARD L. GRANT
ADDIE JOSS
ED KARGER
RED KLEINOW
A.L. RAYMOND
GEORGE F. SUGGS
TERRY TURNER
HEINIE WAGNER

Group Two
RAY FISHER
JOHN A. ROWAN
W.D. SCANLAN
JEFF SWEENEY
JAMES VAUGHN
ED WALSH
KIRB. WHITE
IRVIN K. WILHELM SUFFE ED IN 18TH LINE

[Steve D]

Delete.

[T205 GB]

Ted: that's interesting. I've noted in my spreadsheet which commons I think are "tough" but didn't note that for Daubert.

These are the SPs I've noted: Dahlen, Donohue, Fischer, Grant, Joss, Karger, Kleinow, Raymond, Rowan, Scanlan, Suggs, Sweeney, Turner, Vaughn, Wagner,
Walsh, White, Wilhelm.

Which do y'all think aren't actually SP?


You missed Bresnahan Mouth Open as a SP. How did Rowan make the SP list? I will see if I can find the link again for the other stuff.

[T205 GB]

I tried to dig up the post. It was about the T205 ML Replacements and listed a bunch of other stuff too. I think Ron is pretty good on his list. I am hesitant to say that group two is a SP group but more of an uncommon common.

[Pat R]

I tried to dig up the post. It was about the T205 ML Replacements and listed a bunch of other stuff too. I think Ron is pretty good on his list. I am hesitant to say that group two is a SP group but more of an uncommon common.

Is this the thread you're looking for Andrew?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=214344

[T205 GB]

Is this the thread you're looking for Andrew?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=214344

Thank you Pat for the help.

Just to save a few moments here is the SP section I wrote up:

T205 True SP's and Variation's

I wanted to do an actual break down of the set to separate the SP's and variations based on numbers and not opinions.

I have found that all cards in the set can be found with 5 backs or more except the following cards. These cards can only be found with 3 backs or less with one of the backs being very scare in the printing of them. I have included the Minor Leaguers into this area due to print run.


The first group are Minor League players. These cards are found with only Hassan Fact. 649 and Polar Bear Fact. 6 backs. The PB backs are the scarcer of the two and rarely commands much higher than normal prices. This may be caused by the fact the cards are already SP and obtaining them in any condition above VG is difficult on a normal basis. These cards are available regularly in Auth-VG for decent prices.
1. Adkins
2. Batch
3. Cady
4. J. Collins
5. Dunn
6. Frick
7. Hanford
8. Lee
9. McAllister
10. Merrit
11. Nee
12. Phelan

The second group are cards found with only 3 backs and are the remaining true SP's in the set. Theses cards can only be found with Hassan Fact. 30, Piedmont Fact. 25, and Cycle Fact. 25 backs(unless stated). The Cycle backs are rarely seen on these cards and should command much higher than normal prices for these cards.

1. Bresnahan Mouth Open
2. Chase Left Ear
3. Dahlen
4. Donahue
5. Graham Cubs
6. Grant
7. Harmon Left Ear
8. Joss
9. Karger
10. Kleinow
11. Raymond
12. Shean Cubs (Hassan and PB)
13. Suggs
14. Turner
15. Wagner
16. Wilhelm

[t206kid]

I guess this fits with what I had been saying originally. I haven't seen any off that list with Piedmont 42 (which is mainly Tier 1 above). But from the SP Tier 2 list above I've seen several. Specifically Sweeney and Vaughn several times and Fisher and White less often.

[Ronnie73]

Here's one of my true SP Cycle's.
http://www.comicplace.com/net54/t205kleinow.jpg

[T205 GB]

Here's one of my true SP Cycle's.
http://www.comicplace.com/net54/t205kleinow.jpg

I just sold my Raymond Cycle to a board member. I still have a Donohue Cycle FS $200obo.

Your card is super nice. I want the high grade Grant Cycle back