View Full Version : Mr. Counterfeit
ChiSoxFan
10-13-2017, 10:03 PM
Thought this was really interesting.
Autograph counterfeit ring. Forged autos from Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth to Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. Also from famous entertainers like Ringo Star and Marilyn Monroe
Even showed how they "aged" new baseballs for Babe Ruth autos.
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=21011515
OsFan
10-14-2017, 05:26 AM
Wow
I'm glad I am not an auto. collector. Crazy stuff.
Snapolit1
10-14-2017, 08:22 AM
I'm glad I am not an auto. collector. Crazy stuff.
Ditto. I'd guess the majority of vintage autographs out there are fakes.
bnorth
10-14-2017, 08:33 AM
Thanks for posting the video. I have a Babe Ruth and Ted Williams I purchased(paid shipping) just because Greg was the forger.:eek:
I still need a Joe DiMaggio forged by Greg to complete my forgery collection.
icollectDCsports
10-14-2017, 08:52 AM
Thanks for posting the video. I have a Babe Ruth and Ted Williams I purchased(paid shipping) just because Greg was the forger.:eek:
I still need a Joe DiMaggio forged by Greg to complete my forgery collection.
But can you get someone to authenticate the forgery as a legit Greg signature?
rdwyer
10-14-2017, 09:16 AM
Just got my Dizzy Dean auto authenticated yesterday at PSA Fridays. Was sweating bullets, but it was ok. The waiting and worrying was the hard part.
BeanTown
10-14-2017, 09:35 AM
I would like to know the percentage of his forgeries that passed the experts "opinion" that are good, now graded by PSA. Very good story done by ESPN and thanks for posting. Hopefully they didn't forge the 500 HR Club print which I have in the basement and bought in the late 90s.
bmattioli
10-14-2017, 09:46 AM
The prick sounds so proud of himself.. it's disgusting to me..
bnorth
10-14-2017, 09:54 AM
But can you get someone to authenticate the forgery as a legit Greg signature?
The auto guys on this forum are great and know a lot of the main forgers so I trust their opinions on who forged what.
I have 3 forged autos in my collection. I got all 3 from this forum. People I trust posted in the autograph forum "is this real?". They just do not know that player good enough to determine it on their own. The guys that know those players and their main forgers replied that it was fake and sometimes who forged it.
They make great conversation pieces. I am not trying to fool anybody with them and explain who done them and how corrupt the auto industry is. Most people would rather look at/talk about my fake autos than any real Mantle, Williams, or Ruth cards I have.
icollectDCsports
10-14-2017, 10:01 AM
The auto guys on this forum are great and know a lot of the main forgers so I trust their opinions on who forged what.
I have 3 forged autos in my collection. I got all 3 from this forum. People I trust posted in the autograph forum "is this real?". They just do not know that player good enough to determine it on their own. The guys that know those players and their main forgers replied that it was fake and sometimes who forged it.
They make great conversation pieces. I am not trying to fool anybody with them and explain who done them and how corrupt the auto industry is. Most people would rather look at/talk about my fake autos than any real Mantle, Williams, or Ruth cards I have.
I wasn't trying to imply that you had any bad motives. Just sort of joking about what it's come to in the auto world that there are famous forgers and that their work can be identified via their unique quirks.
Marchillo
10-14-2017, 10:45 AM
Not an ESPN fan but I watched the video and glad I did. Good piece. I collect autos and get many myself but do buy from "trusted" sources. My prized auto ball is my Ted Williams which is dual authenticated by green diamond and PSA. I'm sure there are Green Diamond fakes out there but hoping this one is real. I actually had a Williams that failed GAI that I got my money back on. I think this was way back when GAI was considered legitimate.
Marchillo
10-14-2017, 10:57 AM
Here's a piece on eBay
MUHAMMAD ALI AUTOGRAPHED 18x24 LITHOGRAPH COLLAGE BY ANGELO MARINO FRAMED AUTO https://www.ebay.com/i/302024050856
kailes2872
10-14-2017, 11:23 AM
Just watched the video. I recently binged the whole breaking bad series and Greg sounded a little like Walter White. He was good at it, he was an artist, he enjoyed the money.
I would like to know the percentage of his forgeries that passed the experts "opinion" that are good, now graded by PSA. Very good story done by ESPN and thanks for posting. Hopefully they didn't forge the 500 HR Club print which I have in the basement and bought in the late 90s.
We will obviously never know as I believe the guy was that good that he not only fooled PSA, he likely fooled all of them.
Him aside, don't forget about all the fake "Authentications" out there as well that were signed by other forgers.
I have one signed card and one picture and I think that is as far as I will take my auto collection. :(
samosa4u
10-14-2017, 11:53 AM
Man, if I collected autographs, I'd feel like SH*T after watching this video.
brob28
10-14-2017, 12:40 PM
If you haven't read this book its a great read about Marino and the forgery business. I'd say 99% of DiMaggio, T. Williams and Mantle autos out there are fake.
JollyElm
10-14-2017, 03:50 PM
I really don't have much faith in vintage autographs being legitimate, but seeing how effortlessly this crook 'perfectly' signed Babe Ruth brings it to a whole new level. Yowza.
If you haven't read this book its a great read about Marino and the forgery business. I'd say 99% of DiMaggio, T. Williams and Mantle autos out there are fake.
That's a very high number. :eek:
I have heard DiMaggio didn't really care for signing autographs but did Ted and Mickey not care for them either?
If you haven't read this book its a great read about Marino and the forgery business. I'd say 99% of DiMaggio, T. Williams and Mantle autos out there are fake.
In the blurb, it reads this is going to be a feature film.
https://www.amazon.ca/Operation-Bullpen-Biggest-Forgery-American-ebook/dp/B00C0HODPY
The amazing true story of the high-flying national forgery ring that forged the autographs of sports stars and celebrities and ripped off the American public for more than $100 million, before being busted by a dramatic three-year FBI undercover investigation. As seen on ESPN, Tru-TV, and now being developed into a feature film.
MrSeven
10-14-2017, 05:05 PM
That's a very high number. :eek:
I have heard DiMaggio didn't really care for signing autographs but did Ted and Mickey not care for them either?
There are plenty of genuine examples of all three in great numbers.
John Henry Williams made his father sign at every waking moment towards the end. Mickey Mantle signed in insane numbers as well. Even DiMaggio was a volume signer.
One of the reason sticking to early examples (outside of the autograph circuit) & unique items is probably a safer choice.
brob28
10-15-2017, 12:11 PM
That's a very high number. :eek:
I have heard DiMaggio didn't really care for signing autographs but did Ted and Mickey not care for them either?
Hi Irv, I admit I got a little overzealous with the 99% statement, no doubt there are a lot.
OsFan
10-15-2017, 02:46 PM
What’s amazing to me is I can’t even get my own signature to look the same every time.
JollyElm
10-15-2017, 03:13 PM
If I was famous, I'd sign my name completely differently at times, including printed out (non-cursive) and in all-caps, just to mess with authenticators.
BeanTown
10-15-2017, 05:33 PM
If I was famous, I'd sign my name completely differently at times, including printed out (non-cursive) and in all-caps, just to mess with authenticators.
It worked with Chief Myers until they figured out it was him.
steve B
10-15-2017, 09:59 PM
I wasn't trying to imply that you had any bad motives. Just sort of joking about what it's come to in the auto world that there are famous forgers and that their work can be identified via their unique quirks.
It's not unusual in other hobbies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stamp_forgers
Forgeries by Sperati and a couple others can often have some decent value, and some people collect fakes alongside the real thing. Having the fake as a reference for comparison can be useful.
Steve B
It worked with Chief Myers until they figured out it was him.
Just be glad I didn't finish erasing the signature. :).....Best hundred bucks I ever spent on ebay, I think. Glad you got it.
greco827
10-16-2017, 08:23 AM
Never underestimate the power of ego, money, and a degree of sociopathic behavior.
pbspelly
10-16-2017, 10:27 AM
If you haven't read this book its a great read about Marino and the forgery business. I'd say 99% of DiMaggio, T. Williams and Mantle autos out there are fake.
After watching the video, I went looking for the book "Operation Bullpen." I found a used copy at one website (American Book Exchange) that, wouldn't you know it, said it was "Signed by the Author."
greco827
10-16-2017, 10:50 AM
After watching the video, I went looking for the book "Operation Bullpen." I found a used copy at one website (American Book Exchange) that, wouldn't you know it, said it was "Signed by the Author."
Ah, the irony. :D
rjackson44
10-16-2017, 11:33 AM
is a scary read ,,if you collect this type of stuff.
Stampsfan
10-16-2017, 01:08 PM
After watching the video, I went looking for the book "Operation Bullpen." I found a used copy at one website (American Book Exchange) that, wouldn't you know it, said it was "Signed by the Author."
OMG that's funny.
I wonder if there is any way to authenticate that signature... :rolleyes:
RichardSimon
10-16-2017, 01:21 PM
Thanks for posting the video. I have a Babe Ruth and Ted Williams I purchased(paid shipping) just because Greg was the forger.:eek:
I still need a Joe DiMaggio forged by Greg to complete my forgery collection.
Unfortunately they are still not hard to find.
vargha
10-16-2017, 01:22 PM
Just got my Dizzy Dean auto authenticated yesterday at PSA Fridays. Was sweating bullets, but it was ok. The waiting and worrying was the hard part.
I believe Tom petty stated something similar.
baseballfan
10-16-2017, 02:16 PM
interesting thanks for posting
Unfortunately they are still not hard to find.
It was scary watching the video. No doubt that the problem still exists.
thetruthisoutthere
10-18-2017, 02:19 PM
If you haven't read this book its a great read about Marino and the forgery business. I'd say 99% of DiMaggio, T. Williams and Mantle autos out there are fake.
A cherished item from my humble collection.
A copy of "Operation Bullpen" signed by Tim Fitzsimmons.
291546
pbspelly
10-19-2017, 10:53 AM
A cherished item from my humble collection.
A copy of "Operation Bullpen" signed by Tim Fitzsimmons.
291546
Funny, I have the same message written to me on my signed copy of "Catcher in the Rye"
Aquarian Sports Cards
10-19-2017, 11:23 AM
I have the same inscription on my VHS copy of The Happy Hooker Goes To Washington!...
alexanderautographs
10-19-2017, 12:22 PM
Friends, if you think baseball autographs are bad...look into militaria! Medals, uniforms, hats, daggers, you name it. It's best to ONLY buy from the best in the business, real experts who will stand behind their material. I've been after some of the fly-by-night TPAs for decades, and they STILL surface regularly on some of the sleazier auction and dealer websites.
Mr. Zipper
10-19-2017, 06:24 PM
Funny, I have the same message written to me on my signed copy of "Catcher in the Rye"
Is this snide message your way of implying the signed book posted by Chris Williams is not genuine?
thetruthisoutthere
10-19-2017, 06:36 PM
Funny, I have the same message written to me on my signed copy of "Catcher in the Rye"
If you're going to make a snide comment, have the guts to post your name.
RichardSimon
10-19-2017, 06:37 PM
Just watched the video. I recently binged the whole breaking bad series and Greg sounded a little like Walter White. He was good at it, he was an artist, he enjoyed the money.
Except Walter White was dying.
Mr. Zipper
10-19-2017, 06:47 PM
We will obviously never know as I believe the guy was that good that he not only fooled PSA, he likely fooled all of them.
Marino was great only in the volume he produced. His forgeries are not that deceptive. I'm sure some have slipped by, but not many have gotten by credible authenticators.
Note how carefully and methodically he "draws" the signatures. Trained eyes can easily identify this unnatural look.
thetruthisoutthere
10-19-2017, 07:08 PM
I have the same inscription on my VHS copy of The Happy Hooker Goes To Washington!...
At least Scott has his name posted for his condescending remark.
Marino was great only in the volume he produced. His forgeries are not that deceptive. I'm sure some have slipped by, but not many have gotten by credible authenticators.
Note how carefully and methodically he "draws" the signatures. Trained eyes can easily identify this unnatural look.
For autograph collectors, and the hobby in general, I hope that is the case.
Aquarian Sports Cards
10-20-2017, 09:07 AM
At least Scott has his name posted for his condescending remark.
Mine was merely a joke (which is actually how I took the one before mine, but maybe I was wrong) I was trying to think of the funniest place to read those words. Was meant to be light-hearted, not in any way condescending. I tend to call things out straightforwardly when I have a problem with them.
pbspelly
10-20-2017, 10:55 AM
My apologies. Based on the effusive praise in the dedication (it's not often you see the term "selfless patriot" in book dedications), I thought that Chris had written it himself as a joke. I thought I was playing along, not being snide. If that is a genuine dedication from the author, it's very impressive. I thought Chris was deliberately being funny after I commented that I had seen a copy of the book--a book about fake autographs--advertised as autographed by the author. Again, my sincere apologies. No need to take offense.
Big Six
10-20-2017, 11:20 AM
It worked with Chief Myers until they figured out it was him.
I love this card...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
RichardSimon
10-20-2017, 01:15 PM
My apologies. Based on the effusive praise in the dedication (it's not often you see the term "selfless patriot" in book dedications), I thought that Chris had written it himself as a joke. I thought I was playing along, not being snide. If that is a genuine dedication from the author, it's very impressive. I thought Chris was deliberately being funny after I commented that I had seen a copy of the book--a book about fake autographs--advertised as autographed by the author. Again, my sincere apologies. No need to take offense.
The dedication is not from the author. It is from the FBI agent in charge of Operation Bullpen Tim Fitzsimmons.
pbspelly
10-20-2017, 01:42 PM
The dedication is not from the author. It is from the FBI agent in charge of Operation Bullpen Tim Fitzsimmons.
Did Chris help him investigate forgeries in the business? That is impressive. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I was just making a joke. No offense intended.
Mr. Zipper
10-20-2017, 03:17 PM
Did Chris help him investigate forgeries in the business? That is impressive. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding. I was just making a joke. No offense intended.
He did.
Sorry if I jumped all over you, Paul. I consider Chris a good friend and have seen him take unfair abuse elsewhere. I read too much into your comment.
thetruthisoutthere
10-20-2017, 04:53 PM
I want to "Thank" both Steve and Richard for their supportive comments.
A few of us (Steve and Richard) included, have endured a ton of hostility, lies written about us and downright nastiness, because we have, over the years, did our best to protect our autograph hobby.
And yes, that autographed "Operation Bullpen" book was signed by Tim Fitzsimmons with a flattering inscription address to me.
It is one of my most cherished autograph items.