PSA "No Prints" / SC 350-460/30

[greco827]

I searched around a bit and couldn’t find this topic, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

PSA Certified T206 “No Prints”… I assume this means T206’s with backs not previously before believed to exist, but wanted to confirm that assumption. It seems the bulk of them are Sweet Caporal 350-460/30, and graded only as Authentic (Altered). In addition, if they are in fact a front/back combination which previously wasn’t verified, wouldn’t the fact that PSA authenticated them now include them in the SC 350-460 series? Rube Manning (Pitching), for example, has been authenticated 4 times by PSA.

Should the 24 players (42 total cards) authenticated by PSA from the SC350-460/30 series lead to the conclusion that factory 30 did in fact produce print group 3 cards as part of that set?

[brass_rat]

These cards come from a group that were sold raw on eBay over a period of months. They were neatly hand cut, not factory cut, so they graded PSA AA.

Other people here can provide much more information on the totals, I'm sure.

Given that they were not factory cut and these were the only examples of the backs on these "no print" cards, PSA didn't want to include them in the normal pop reports, but they agreed to list them in a section so that people can see the holdered populations in addition to cert verification.

This is my Cobb...one of three that were sold, I believe.

Cheers,
Steve

[greco827]

OK, that makes sense. So since all known examples of SC350-460/30 were hand-cut, it is believed they were never inserted into packs of tobacco, and therefore are not considered part of the 350-460/30 print run.

The fact that they exist though, wouldn't that lead them to the inclusion of the print run, or at least a subset of that print run? Perhaps factory cut examples would need to surface, although they are either super scarce, or non-existent, or they would have likely seen the light of day by now.

Any knowledge of their origin or speculation on how they came to be? Were they possibly from an uncut factory sheet with the factory designation printed on the back by mistake, and simply taken home by an employee, i.e., scrap?

Great Cobb by the way!

[Luke]

The generally accepted theory on these is that they were all supposed to get the Factory 42 Scroll Overprint, but were scrapped and cut up before the overprint could be printed.

All of the "no prints" are in the SC 350-460 Fact 42 Overprint Subset, so it's overwhelmingly likely they were supposed to get the Overprint.

[greco827]

Luke and Steve, thank you very much. That makes perfect sense. This is why I'm here! Thanks for the knowledge share!

[tedzan]

I searched around a bit and couldn’t find this topic, so forgive me if this has been addressed.

PSA Certified T206 “No Prints”… I assume this means T206’s with backs not previously before believed to exist, but wanted to confirm that assumption. It seems the bulk of them are Sweet Caporal 350-460/30, and graded only as Authentic (Altered). In addition, if they are in fact a front/back combination which previously wasn’t verified, wouldn’t the fact that PSA authenticated them now include them in the SC 350-460 series? Rube Manning (Pitching), for example, has been authenticated 4 times by PSA.



Hi Jason

Here is a link for more information regarding these so-called "No-Prints" cards (obviously these cards were printed, but not inserted in cigarette packs from the New York Factory #30).
Check-out Post #181 in this link...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816&page=19

Here is a SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 card with the Factory #42 overprint. Exactly 109 subjects (63 of the 350/460 series and 46 of the 460-only series) were overprinted,
since the SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production was being transferred to the Durham, NC Factory #42.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/SWEETCAPf42ovpt50x.jpg




Should the 24 players (42 total cards) authenticated by PSA from the SC350-460/30 series lead to the conclusion that factory 30 did in fact produce print group 3 cards as part of that set?


Incidentally,
All the T206's were printed at the American Lithographic Co. in New York and shipped to the various Factory's in the ATC system.. These ATC Factory's did NOT print these cards.


TED Z
.

[greco827]

Hi Jason

Here is a link for more information regarding these so-called "No-Prints" cards (obviously these cards were printed, but not inserted in cigarette packs from the New York Factory #30).
Check-out Post #181 in this link...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816&page=19

Here is a SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #30 card with the Factory #42 overprint. Exactly 109 subjects (63 of the 350/460 series and 46 of the 460-only series) were overprinted,
since the SWEET CAPORAL cigarette production was being transferred to the Durham, NC Factory #42.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/SWEETCAPf42ovpt50x.jpg





Incidentally,
All the T206's were printed at the American Lithographic Co. in New York and shipped to the various Factory's in the ATC system.. These ATC Factory's did NOT print these cards.


TED Z
.

Ted, thank you. This is very informational, as is the rest of this thread. This leads me to another question however, in which it is theorized that T206's were cut from sheets which had 3 or 4 of the same card printed vertically, explaining the miscuts which contain the name of the same player pictured. If that is the case, and these were all cut from the same sheet, can we assume that there are at least 3 and maybe 4 examples of each of these cards? The Manning (Pitching) has been graded 4 times by PSA, which would lead to the conclusion that sheets were of 132 cards.

[tedzan]

Jason

I think the only fact we can be certain of is that a given T206 subject was double-printed on a sheet. The four Manning's could be the result of multiple sheets.

By the way, welcome to this forum.


TED Z
.

[greco827]

Fair enough, and thanks for the welcome! I find all of this very intriguing, almost to the point of being archaeological, which is pretty damn cool.

[Ronnie73]

Hi Jason, So far 120 of these cards have surfaced over the past few years. There are actually 28 different cards known. As far as them all being printed or surviving in equal numbers, maybe but so far it doesn't add up. Individual card quantities range from 1 to 8 for each of the 28 cards. So either there are more out there to equal out the numbers or they have been lost over the years. Otherwise the Lajoie With Bat being a quantity of 1 would make the regular Factory 42 Overprint card of the same, a short printed card. That's why I love the T206 set. There's so much mystery.

[Ronnie73]

These cards come from a group that were sold raw on eBay over a period of months. They were neatly hand cut, not factory cut, so they graded PSA AA.

Other people here can provide much more information on the totals, I'm sure.

Given that they were not factory cut and these were the only examples of the backs on these "no print" cards, PSA didn't want to include them in the normal pop reports, but they agreed to list them in a section so that people can see the holdered populations in addition to cert verification.

This is my Cobb...one of three that were sold, I believe.

Cheers,
Steve

Hi Steve, Great looking Cobb. That looks like the last Cobb of the 3 that was auctioned on ebay.

[brass_rat]

Hi Steve, Great looking Cobb. That looks like the last Cobb of the 3 that was auctioned on ebay.

Thanks, Ron -- and you're correct, it is the last Cobb that was auctioned. The seller advertised it as the last card in the group, so I let him know that I had bid under the condition that it was truthful advertising. As far as I can tell, it was -- so I'm very happy.

The bat off Cobb is by far my favorite of the T206 Cobb poses.

Cheers,
Steve

[greco827]

Seems rather than no-prints, perhaps they should have been labelled as No-OP or missing OP. Either way, same result, just a bit more confusing. It also would have been nice if PSA used a designation on the card, rather than just slabbing them as 350-460/30, which makes them appear to be a legitimate part of this back run/factory combination.

[Ronnie73]

Seems rather than no-prints, perhaps they should have been labelled as No-OP or missing OP. Either way, same result, just a bit more confusing. It also would have been nice if PSA used a designation on the card, rather than just slabbing them as 350-460/30, which makes them appear to be a legitimate part of this back run/factory combination.

I agree on both, what we call them and how PSA notes it. The "No Print" I think just kind of caught on because of the website t206resource.com because cards that are not suppose to exist due to printing patterns are listed as "No" or "Probable No Print". The PSA part is actually being worked on. So hopefully the inserts will be noted in the future and the back sub-set will be added to the set registry.

[t206fix]

The seller also sold a lot of hand cut SC460 f30 possible prints when he was selling the no prints. I owned two of the Hummels from those auctions.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237566