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View Full Version : Seeking VERY RARE 1919 T213 Coupon Cigs Type 3 Factory 8 overprint


NewOrleansCollector
09-19-2017, 11:23 AM
Hi, I'm Chris and I represent an investment group seeking any 1919 Coupon Cigs T213 Type 3 Factory 8 overprints. They are very rare and are considered to be the GHOSTS of card collecting down South. Please give us a shout if any are known out there. Serious offers. Thanks all.

calvindog
09-19-2017, 11:49 AM
OooOOOooooOOoh an investment group!


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5791/20851618719_7a732580c8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xLzZMz)

Leon
09-19-2017, 11:57 AM
Hi, I'm Chris and I represent an investment group seeking any 1919 Coupon Cigs T213 Type 3 Factory 8 overprints. They are very rare and are considered to be the GHOSTS of card collecting down South. Please give us a shout if any are known out there. Serious offers. Thanks all.

Your post is wrong on so many levels including breaking the rules of the board.

ps...infraction given.

.

ullmandds
09-19-2017, 12:00 PM
nfs

buymycards
09-19-2017, 01:10 PM
Hi Chris, welcome to the board. Your post should really be in the BST. If you use the search function you will find several good threads about T213's, T216's, Weil and Holsum, and other New Orleans issues. There are several Louisiana collectors on the board, including myself.

If you click on my username, then on "Public profile", you will find my pictures folders that show my Louisiana cards. (Not for sale)

You are correct about the scarcity of the overprints, but there are several board members who own them. The problem is that they rarely come up for sale.

Rick

Blunder19
09-19-2017, 02:43 PM
Red Cobb :) 1 of 1
https://i.imgur.com/5YmLi9N.jpg

Stampsfan
09-19-2017, 02:50 PM
Sounds like they're "paying strong".

Sean
09-19-2017, 03:27 PM
Most of us (me, Jaime, Chris and Pete) have only one Factory 8 overprint, and they're critical to our sets. I'm happy to show my card, but it would be one of the very last that I would ever sell. Sorry...


288223 288224

Rhotchkiss
09-19-2017, 03:54 PM
And if the Evers appears, I promise to pay more than the NOLA investor group.

Ryan Hotchkiss

Blunder19
09-19-2017, 06:18 PM
Nice card Sean... its been a while since I have seen your Back run.. please post an updated picture...

I like how this thread has turned into a show your T213-3 Overprints.. that is way more interesting than the investor group original intention lol

ullmandds
09-19-2017, 06:21 PM
the investor group who hath disappeared!

frankbmd
09-19-2017, 07:37 PM
OooOOOooooOOoh an investment group!


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5791/20851618719_7a732580c8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xLzZMz)

Your post is wrong on so many levels including breaking the rules of the board.

ps...infraction given.

.

Sounds like they're "paying strong".

the investor group who hath disappeared!


You mean there aren't "special" rules for investment groups.:eek:

Leon
09-19-2017, 09:20 PM
You mean there aren't "special" rules for investment groups.:eek:

There are anti-investment group rules.

kdixon
09-19-2017, 09:22 PM
Zach Wheat is mainly what I collect. Doubt I will be selling anytime soon.

2dueces
09-20-2017, 08:09 AM
I've never seen those cards! Even old farts like me can learn and be impressed by something everyday. Great cards y'all.

autograf
09-20-2017, 08:38 AM
Here's a picture of the (3) I sold around 2002




Woops........didn't keep that picture. Oh well. They're great cards. I know it was Marquard and two 'commons'. Also a Type I but can't remember who that one was. Would love to see the holdings of the investor group. Hopefully they'll show us the ghosts of the South! Good luck finding them.

Gradedcardman
09-20-2017, 08:49 AM
Chris,

Good luck in your search. Obviously the guys who have seen your request are not selling at this time.

tbob
09-20-2017, 03:25 PM
I was one of the 3 collectors who purchased the "Southern Find" back in the 80's. When we picked and chose the ones we wanted I ended up with a complete set of the 1919 16 for 10 cents set minus one card, and several duplicates including 4 Ty Cobb overprinted backs. Over the years I have sold 3 of the Cobbs and kept one. I also had 85% of the 20 for 10 cent backs with many duplicates. I sold all the duplicate 20 for 10s and then about 20 years ago sold the near set of 20 for 10s. The "Find" was incredible as I had 4 or 5 duplicates of Cobb, Johnson, Matty, etc. Alas I sold my complete set-1 of 1919s to none other than Bill Mastro a long time ago. I sold it for about 10% of what these cards sell for now :-( but that's life. I ended up with a beautiful Cobb overprint and a 1914 Cobb (both batting pose) plus a decent return on my purchase. Today the cards would be worth a small fortune. The other two collectors who split the cards with me have also sold their cards to the hobby many, many years ago. One of the others was John England (deceased) who sold all his cards to Larry Fritsch and I believe the Coupons were a part of that sale. The 1919s were in an average of EX condition, just beautiful.
Tbob
Footnote: I found one previously unlisted 1919 Coupon and notified Lew Lipset who denied the card existed. I remember sending him a xerox of the card but never heard back from him. I can't remember the player's name but it is the only 1919 I've ever seen or heard of the player and in hindsight is incredibly rare. The "Southern Find" never got the noteriety of the Black Swamp Find almost 30 years later but it was incredibly more noteworthy. Not a lot of card collectors today are aware of the Find. I remember in the late 90's and early 00's seeing small lots from these cards pop up occasionally for sale in auctions, primarily Mastro Auctions.
With regard to the 1919 set, my memory is that of the cards in that near set about 15-20 were overprints.

The Nasty Nati
09-20-2017, 03:34 PM
Aren't the T213 Type 1s rarer than the Type 3s?

tbob
09-20-2017, 03:35 PM
For those who are interested, the seller of the cards was a guy from Louisiana who came to Fort Smith, Arkansas because of John England's card shop. The cards were all loose in a huge brown box. We alternated picking cards in 1-2-3, 3-2-1, 1-2-3, 3-2-1 etc. order as we picked the EXMT and better HOFers and worked our way through the "commons" where at the end we were picking 5 or more at a time because it was taking forever. The third collector was the mother of a board member here FYI. She couldn't be present so I picked for her because she trusted me and wasn't completely trusting of John lol.
I had a similiar situation occur in the late 90's when a different guy from Louisiana came by with a small box of about 200 T205s in beautiful condition but I was a little leary of their provenance and only bought a Matty and a Donlin in NM. He said they were his brother's cards and he wanted to sell them. The guy who bought a few from him was also leary that maybe the brother didn't know they were being sold lol. In hindsight we should have bought them all, I guess. He did promise he would be back with a "substantial amount of Victory back cards" (!!!!!!) but we never heard back from him. That was 20 years ago.

tbob
09-20-2017, 03:38 PM
Aren't the T213 Type 1's rarer than the Type 3's?

Type 1s and Type 3s are almost equally scarce but Type 3 (1919) overprints are rarer than Type 1s but Type 1s are much more scarce than Type 2s (1914).
I used to know a collector who had almost a complete set of the Type 1s but he swore me to secrecy because he was paranoid about burglaries etc and didn't want the noteriety.
There were 0 Type 1s in the Southern Find.

tbob
09-20-2017, 03:53 PM
I was one of the 3 collectors who purchased the "Southern Find" back in the 80's. When we picked and chose the ones we wanted I ended up with a complete set of the 1919 16 for 10 cents set minus one card, and several duplicates including 4 Ty Cobb overprinted backs. Over the years I have sold 3 of the Cobbs and kept one. I also had 85% of the 20 for 10 cent backs with many duplicates. I sold all the duplicate 20 for 10s and then about 20 years ago sold the near set of 20 for 10s. The "Find" was incredible as I had 4 or 5 duplicates of Cobb, Johnson, Matty, etc. Alas I sold my complete set-1 of 1919s to none other than Bill Mastro a long time ago. I sold it for about 10% of what these cards sell for now :-( but that's life. I ended up with a beautiful Cobb overprint and a 1914 Cobb (both batting pose) plus a decent return on my purchase. Today the cards would be worth a small fortune. The other two collectors who split the cards with me have also sold their cards to the hobby many, many years ago. One of the others was John England (deceased) who sold all his cards to Larry Fritsch and I believe the Coupons were a part of that sale. The 1919s were in an average of EX condition, just beautiful.
Tbob
Footnote: I found one previously unlisted 1919 Coupon and notified Lew Lipset who denied the card existed. I remember sending him a xerox of the card but never heard back from him. I can't remember the player's name but it is the only 1919 I've ever seen or heard of the player and in hindsight is incredibly rare. The "Southern Find" never got the noteriety of the Black Swamp Find almost 30 years later but it was incredibly more noteworthy. Not a lot of card collectors today are aware of the Find. I remember in the late 90's and early 00's seeing small lots from these cards pop up occasionally for sale in auctions, primarily Mastro Auctions.
With regard to the 1919 set, my memory is that of the cards in that near set about 15-20 were overprints.

NewOrleansCollector
10-01-2017, 04:05 AM
I'm a novice here and posted the thread in the wrong category. Spoke to Leon. My apologies gents. Didnt even know if the thread stayed so I did another in the correct place. I did speak to a few guys and made offers. If you were one, they are serious. Some look unbelievable. We consider these royalty in the hobby. Some I just didnt want to insult your intelligence with the offers because i knew they were either unaffordable or important to your collection. I know I wouldnt sell mine either. We "think" there are less than 12 total and only 5-7 HOFers left, Depending on the silent guys. But we do collect and buy often many of the New Oreans printed cards. We are pretty sure the Kottons / Peoples were printed in NY and distributed here only. I own a few of the larger printing facilities here and know that only certain ones were actually printed here. My great grandfather worked for the St. Charles business that printed, cut and distributed the Tango Eggs find. We love those, especially because so many people called the better cut finds reprints due to the glossy velum stocks, which are genuine and not reprints. Thank you for sharing the photos gents. Let us know if there is a specific sales price wanted on any you see or any here. Thanks again and I will start following this thread closer now that I see it is still here. Thanks Leon

Leon
10-01-2017, 08:59 AM
I'm a novice here and posted the thread in the wrong category. Spoke to Leon. My apologies gents. Didnt even know if the thread stayed so I did another in the correct place. I did speak to a few guys and made offers. If you were one, they are serious. Some look unbelievable. We consider these royalty in the hobby. Some I just didnt want to insult your intelligence with the offers because i knew they were either unaffordable or important to your collection. I know I wouldnt sell mine either. We "think" there are less than 12 total and only 5-7 HOFers left, Depending on the silent guys. But we do collect and buy often many of the New Oreans printed cards. We are pretty sure the Kottons / Peoples were printed in NY and distributed here only. I own a few of the larger printing facilities here and know that only certain ones were actually printed here. My great grandfather worked for the St. Charles business that printed, cut and distributed the Tango Eggs find. We love those, especially because so many people called the better cut finds reprints due to the glossy velum stocks, which are genuine and not reprints. Thank you for sharing the photos gents. Let us know if there is a specific sales price wanted on any you see or any here. Thanks again and I will start following this thread closer now that I see it is still here. Thanks Leon

Very interesting information, Chris. Thanks for sharing. The Tango Eggs cards tidbits are great.

rg4ne1
10-05-2017, 12:39 PM
What kind of price range are you considering? I have a factory 8 overprint. Are they really that rare? I have a Hughie Jennings PSA 4.

rg4ne1
10-05-2017, 12:56 PM
your image was too big....redo it (LL)
Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

brianp-beme
10-05-2017, 01:15 PM
Nice card of Hugh "I want to drink your blood" Jennings.

Brian (I must have garlic and wooden stakes hanging about my person, as a type card of the T213-3 overprints has avoided my collection)

Jobu
10-06-2017, 01:28 PM
The best site out there for Louisiana cards belongs to a board member:

http://www.louisianacards.com/

There are more than 7-12 total T213-3 factory 8 OPs. I used to have a Hoblitzell and I think I came across examples of 2-4 more of that card when I owned it and was trying to figure out what to ask for it. PSA's pop report shows only 1 graded F8, Eddie Collins, but lists several others with 0 in the pop report (https://www.psacard.com/pop/search/ then search "T213 Factory 8" ---- which I think means PSA confirmed them but has yet to grade one, not 100% sure about that logic, though it does make sense with the cards in this thread): Cobb bat off, which tbob mentions he had four (4!!!!!) of, Dubuc, Marquard, McGraw port, Bender no trees, and Jennings both hands. I also know someone with a blue Chase portrait. Combine all of these with what I know of the Hoblitzell and the Wheat, red Cobb, Merkle, and Donlin in this thread and quickly we pass the top end of your total pop range without doing more in-depth searches.

Here is my Tango Eggs card, I think you will like the back. :) Very cool to hear that your grandfather hand a hand in these - I just sent you an email as I lived in New Orleans for 10 years and collect the cards from there.

Sean
10-06-2017, 04:11 PM
PSA graded my Merkle last year and only called it a Type-3, with no mention of the Factory 8 overprint. I assumed that they didn't distinguish between the two. :confused:

trobba
10-07-2017, 06:45 AM
The grading sites do not distinguish the overprints in the pop reports...SGC does note it on their flip, however.

There are over 30 players/poses that have been confirmed to have the overprint variation.

There are a few to have known duplicates, Cobb bat, Hoblitzell, Collins, Bender...but many examples that exist are the only known overprint of that player.

NewOrleansCollector
10-12-2017, 08:09 AM
Ive seen the HOFers any where from 7-20K so far or lately anyway and the commons between 1,500-5000, but the Cobbs likely go for more. I'll message you

What kind of price range are you considering? I have a factory 8 overprint. Are they really that rare? I have a Hughie Jennings PSA 4.

Leon
10-12-2017, 09:18 AM
Ive seen the HOFers any where from 7-20K so far or lately anyway and the commons between 1,500-5000, but the Cobbs likely go for more. I'll message you

Those estimates on commons are sort of crazy unless they are super high grade (and then not the high estimate still). Someone might ask those prices but they aren't selling for that. Many of those listed on the bay have been there for around a half a decade. So I don't think you can say they sell for what those asking prices are. I think an overprint of a common might be in the 500 range today......maybe a little more or less depending on player and condition. Just a guess but closer than the above common estimate. These are some I used to own..( I guess I know where a few landed ....and couldn't be happier they are with board members.)

http://luckeycards.com/pt2133master.jpg

darwinbulldog
10-12-2017, 02:54 PM
Uhh, yeah. They ain't worth that much. http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2016/spring/632/1919-t213-coupon-cigarettes-eddie-collins-rare-factory-overprint/