A few questions for collectors of M101-4/5 , E135, and E121 and their various backs

[Luke]

Hey Guys,

I'm finding myself interested in the above sets, mainly because the variety of backs makes them really interesting to me.

In doing research on these sets, I'm finding that cards I would expect to be marketed as part of a larger set, are usually listed separately (i.e. I would expect a D328 1917 Weil Baking card to be listed in a way that connects it to the E135 set, but it doesn't seem like that is the norm). As a T206 collector, it seems like all of the E135 (ish) cards should have the same catalog number to tie them all together. I actually think it might make these sets more popular if all cards under the same umbrella had the same catalog tag (but what do I know)

That's a bunch of rambling, but here are some questions:

Do collectors look at these cards like they are one larger set, and collect is by backs, or do you tend to look at all the different backs as separate issues? Is there anyone on here who has a E135 set with a variety of all the different backs?

What is the market like for the various backs? One of my favorite things about T206 is that they are really liquid. It's nice to be able to sell cards when I need to pay for something I just bought. For instance, if I have a 1917 D328 Weil Snodgrass and I decide to sell it, will it sit forever, or is there an active market for it?

Does the scarcity of these cards translate into value and demand? Using the same 1917 Weil example, most cards have POPS of just 1 or 2. To me that's exciting because they are so scarce. But, does anyone really care?

Who mainly collects a subset like 1917 Weil Baking? Are there collectors of the E135s who collect them with all backs, or is mainly player/team collectors and Louisiana collectors?

I'll probably think of more questions, but that'll do it for now. I did try the search function but didn't find anything. Hopefully people won't mind re-hashing an old topic.

[sterlingfox]

Hi Luke,

I can't answer most of your questions, but I can tell you this.

There are far fewer collectors of the M101, E135 and E121 series cards vs T206, but there is definitely still a collector base - especially for the rare backs.

I recently saw a bunch of mid grade (PSA 4/5) M101 rare back HOFers sell for $1000 or more each on eBay (and commons with rare backs for ~$300 each), blowing away all previous sales records for those cards, so it's very cutthroat on the nicer rare backs.

I personally only own a few M101s (with the only rare back being a beat up Globe Clothing common), zero E135s, and five E121s (the series of 80s are all type 1s).

I do plan on picking up more of these, but then again, my collection is pretty diverse, so I can say that about most other pre-war and tobacco sets lol.

Best of luck!

[JamesGallo]

Oh boy a lot to deal with here. Considering i have been trying to complete my Boston Store set for years i can help a lot. They are all different sets first based on catalog number then by back. I think if registry sets allowed different backs it would help a lot but as things stand the interest is limited imo. I see very little demand for commons and even second tier hof. The major stars always sell regardless of the back. I think the m101 are the most common and popular followed by the e135 and then the e121. There are seems to be more 101 around then the others. I have found it very hard finding commons so the e135 are rare but with little demand imo. I have several nice mid grade commons that havent sold in the 150 range. I would not consider any commons from any of these sets to be liquid.

The m101 are likely more common as you could order full sets. If you have any other questions feel free to drop me a line.

James G

[nolemmings]

There is a lot to unpack from your post. It seems you are most interested in the 1917 issues from Collins-McCarthy, Boston Store, Weil Baking and Standard Biscuit (along with blank backs and a somewhat scarce Merchant’s Bakery). These are the least available of the 3 groups you mentioned, but putting together an amalgamated set would be neither easy nor impossible. Actually, James is close to putting together a Boston Store set, and since Collins-McCarthy and Boston Store are found in roughly the same numbers, the former is probably doable as a stand alone set also. A near or entire blank-backed set was sold through Mile-High a few years ago (McCoid collection--also included m101 blank backs). As for scarcity, there is a large drop-off from Collins-McCarthy and Boston Store to the others. I doubt that each card has been confirmed for Weil or Standard Biscuit, but hey, the same was true for the blank-backs until the discovery and then sale of one man’s collection in that Mile High auction.

Personally I would have no problems with trying to put together a set with all backs represented, which would be challenging enough, and I believe there are m101 and e135 collectors who approach it this way–perhaps the E121s also. Yes there are Louisiana collectors who only focus on the Weil and Holsum cards, so you will face competition on the buying end but then again greater interest on the selling end.

These e135-like cards are more thinly traded, but you should not lose much if any money on cards you buy and then later sell, and you could see a nice return. So no your Snodgrass will not sit on the shelf with no interest, unless you place a museum-like price on it, but as noted and true of nearly all sets, the commons would be the most difficult to unload. As for m101 backs, I could talk about those all day and more, but suffice it to say, the scarcest of those backs do very well in the market. I am less familiar with the market for the other e121-like backs, although I follow the Holsum and Standard Biscuit sales somewhat. I doubt there is any chance the scarcer backs of those e121 cards are being chased by collectors for individual sets (same for m101), but like the others and along with type collectors, an example of each back is usually of decent interest that holds its value.

[Luke]

Dmitry, James, and Todd:

Thanks very much for your replies. It's really interesting that these cards are cataloged differently, which seems to have an impact on their desirability. I'm sure the T206 set would not be as popular as it is if every brand had a different catalog number.

James, I'm sure I'll be contacting you with some questions as I dig into to these sets, but for now I can't think of anything more.

Those 3 comments pretty much are what I was looking for, but if anyone has any additional thoughts, I'd love to hear them.