E107 questions and scan requests

[nolemmings]

I have questions about this set that I do not believe have been answered fully and have not been addressed here recently. I do not collect them, but am compiling scans and also trying to learn. Please comment on the following, and apologies if I missed where this was resolved previously.

1. Has any other distributor/issuer of E107 emerged besides Breisch, Williams?
2. Is it a fair assessment that fewer than 5% of E107s bear the Breisch,Williams stamp?
3. Any theories on why the company used a basic if not crude stamp for advertising when it had issued nicely printed non-sports cards in the surrounding years?

I also would appreciate a scan of a clear, nice-sized, overprint back for a gallery I am compiling, along with scans of 8 team variations and Charlie Jones. I have a blurry scan of Jones but am holding out for a better one. The team variations are Anderson (NY); Dillon (Det); Doyle (NY); Elberfeld (Pha.?); Lee (Pitt); Lush (Cle); Powell (NY), and Thoney (NY).

If you would like a peek at the gallery–try this link and use password net54 if needed:
http://imageevent.com/imoverhere/scans/e107breischwilliams

As you can see, a couple of the cards are pretty rough. If you have a better one and can spare a nice scan, I would be grateful. In many ways the size and quality of the scan is more important than the card it shows. Any help appreciated.

[sb1]

Here is a scan of the back of an overprint, I can email it if needed.

As to your questions.

No other company has been confirmed to be a part of the E107 distribution, but it appears very plausible that it was used over a period of time by different parties, given the different backs and the overprint.

I believe that the overprints are all one of ones and unique to only one of each player overprinted, I have not seen a double of any player. My original "set" had 39 overprints a very, very high number when compared with most large holdings.

The overprints were probably done after the fact, not prior to be inserted with a product or given away. As you may know I have a Type 2 card, which is highly likely to have been part of candy packaging, that has the backstamp as well. All of the stamps are uniform and slightly diagonal(the stamp is too large to fit perfectly centered), almost if they were done at the same time. I had a few that had purple ink on the front from being stacked atop a freshly stamped card. ALL of the stamped backs are on 150 Subject card, I have not seen one on a blank back, other the Type 2.

The ones you still lack scans of are the very hardest of the team variations, a few of which are limited to 1-2 examples known.

One last tidbit that will give you some more to research, is the fact that many of the blank back vs. 150 subjects backs have different font widths on the front player name and team resulting in wide vs. narrow captions at the bottom.

[Angyale]

http://e107bernhard.tripod.com/

Angyale

[h2oya311]

http://e107bernhard.tripod.com/

Angyale

well there you have it! Ask and ye shall receive!

[nolemmings]

Thanks guys. Yes, Eric, I had seen that site--seems he needs the same ones I do. I know in some respects I am reinventing the wheel but I made my own gallery because I like them arrayed in one spot, rather than clicking on links card by card. I also like larger, better-quality scans, and the fact that it can be seen as a slide-show. Most of what I have came from auction sites and in particular the large collection that went off in Legendary awhile back. Anyway, I did poach one scan I needed from this site.

Scott, I'm a little confused when you opine that the stamps were added after the fact-- post-packaging or distribution, and why you think it likely your type two was part of the packaging. I agree the company must have learned of these after they were printed, although it seems kind of strange to me that they could not or chose not to arrange with the printer to put their ad in typeset form on the back of the blank backs. This would have made a much more polished product and more in line with what they did with their non-sports cards. It seems that this was not really an advertising campaign that they pushed much.

Hopefully more info will be discovered about this set, as it appears to be the prototype for many of the T and E sets that followed, in terms of size, stock, design and back advertising. Thanks again for the info.

[sb1]

Todd,

The stamps were certainly done after the cards were cut, but probably prior to them either being inserted into whatever the packaging may have been or if they were handed out by the vendor. The reason I think this is that several that were part of an old time collection show spots of paper loss or remnants over the stamp, so the stamp was their prior. I am not sure what connection Breisch-Willams actually had with the stamps. Also notice it is "Breisch, Williams" on the stamp. I guess it's possible the cards were redeemed and then somehow made their way back out to the public, but I doubt it.

The Type 2's are all now believed to have been cut off of some type of box or display. The stock is different, a more porous gray and not clay coated front. Normally they are cut very narrow, although one or two are oversize. Several also have stock wrinkles. And..many of the type 2's have product staining, while mysteriously none of the normal E107's have signs of product like E96 or 1914 Cracker Jacks???

Here is the Delahanty Type 2 from Lew's book(I own the card as well).

Scott

[philliesphan]

Todd-

I've been looking for a scan/picture of the E107 Doyle Phila Nat'l for nearly a decade. I understand the card is likely unique, and even a picture is unlikely to be made available anytime soon

m

[TheBig6]

Nice images Todd
Here's one I didn't see on your page.
http://photos.imageevent.com/ruckers/ecards/websize/schreck2.jpg

[rainier2004]

Scott has made a ton of great points on the set.

Scott - Are those 39 OPs that you had the total pop in the hobby?

Here is the OP I got from Scott a few years ago and the poster that I will post for any excuse. I am missing the same images you are and just frankencarded them.

[sb1]

The total Overprint population is a bit under fifty I believe, Chris Sullivan only had two or three, plus a few other singles here and there plus the thirty-nine I had. Of course there are bound to be scattered examples here and there in type and other collections that have been put away over the years.

[nolemmings]

Thanks again for the info guys. Can anybody confirm an Elberfeld Philadelphia card? The pop reports are inconclusive.

I find it interesting that of the 13 team changes, 8 involved the subject moving to New York teams, and another has him on a new team after leaving New York. Makes me wonder if the updated cards were issued in the New York area.

Also, can anyone confirm that the backs of the updated cards are anything but blank? I have scans showing both versions in 6 of the 13 traded subjects. 4 of those updated are blank. The other two are Kid Gleason and Kid Elberfeld. I know it’s a longshot and unlikely to be proved anytime soon (if at all) one way or the other, but could these two subjects have been mis-corrected errors? Neither of these two guys played for their updated teams. Elberfeld was traded to NY in fairly early 1903, yet his update has him playing for Philly. Gleason’s updated card has him on NY, where he never played--he was in Philly during the relevant time. Is it possible that the printer got its “Kids”mixed up? Both have the same nickname, are shown in Detroit uniforms and look somewhat similar:
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/scans/e107breischwilliams/websize/Elberfeld.%20Kid.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/scans/e107breischwilliams/websize/GLeason_%20Kid_Philadelphia.jpg
Maybe the new York update was supposed to go to Elberfeld and Gleason was to remain in Philly?

[Leon]

That is a cool card....

Todd,

The stamps were certainly done after the cards were cut, but probably prior to them either being inserted into whatever the packaging may have been or if they were handed out by the vendor. The reason I think this is that several that were part of an old time collection show spots of paper loss or remnants over the stamp, so the stamp was their prior. I am not sure what connection Breisch-Willams actually had with the stamps. Also notice it is "Breisch, Williams" on the stamp. I guess it's possible the cards were redeemed and then somehow made their way back out to the public, but I doubt it.

The Type 2's are all now believed to have been cut off of some type of box or display. The stock is different, a more porous gray and not clay coated front. Normally they are cut very narrow, although one or two are oversize. Several also have stock wrinkles. And..many of the type 2's have product staining, while mysteriously none of the normal E107's have signs of product like E96 or 1914 Cracker Jacks???

Here is the Delahanty Type 2 from Lew's book(I own the card as well).

Scott