19th Century Detroit Eye Candy

[Joe_G.]

Well, I have John Thorn & Graig Kreindler to thank for a link to recently posted images from the Detroit Historical Society. Among the items, proof that Gray Studio was responsible for the images that would ultimately be used by Goodwin for their 1887 Detroit N172s (and subsequent re-issues). Jay Miller and I theorized this to be the case when a Chicago White Stocking proof surfaced of Ned Williamson several years ago (from Gray Studio). The 1887 Chicago and Detroit cards have the same stadium background (believed to be same studio).

Here are some of the long awaited Detroit proofs from Gray Studio:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020001.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020006.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020008.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020005.jpg

Can you name these four without cheating?

I find it interesting that some of the cabinets have a faint stamp on the mount as follows:

Copyrighted 1887.
GOODWIN & CO. N.Y.

Copyrights are not known on other 1887 studio proofs, but common on 1888 and 1889 proofs (often scribed into the negative).

I'll share more tomorrow if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

[trdcrdkid]

These are awesome, Joe!

The top one is Dan Brouthers. I recognize the other three by sight, and I have a card of the bottom one, but I don't remember who they are off the top of my head without looking. I'll kick myself when I see the answers.

[oldjudge]

Great find! All 1887 NL teams were photographed by Gray, except for NY, who was protographed by Carroll. I'll post some examples later.

[oldjudge]

Mack-Washington

[oldjudge]

Arundel-Indianapolis

[oldjudge]

Fields-Pittsburgh

[oldjudge]

Ferguson-Philadelphia

[oldjudge]

Nash-Boston (photo mounted on wrong side of mount--back has Gray text)

[oldjudge]

Not surprisingly, Gray shot images of more than major league teams. Here is a player, identified on the back as George Sager, of Warren.

[oldjudge]

And finally, here is a Carroll 1887 image of Mattimore-New York

[barrysloate]

Is the third one Ned Hanlon?

[kkkkandp]

Joe and Jay:

Those cabinets are wonderful to look at! :D

Kevin

[Leon]

Joe thanks for posting those images.
And Jay, those are off the chart cool. Thanks for sharing them. Just for that Scott will buy you a soda at the show (or a spring water if that is more your take, to eat with your rabbit food :)....

[CobbSpikedMe]

Amazing pieces guys. Funny thing is, not surprising that they are coming from you two! You're collections blow me away. Thanks for sharing with us all.


AndyH

[Joe_G.]

Wow Jay, thanks for showing your near full run on the 1887 NL studio proofs. Here is the only team not yet shown (not mine).

Williamson-Chicago

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=459&pictureid=22615

As for the Detroit players in my OP . . .

Brouthers
Richardson
Rowe
Weidman

Barry, Ned Hanlon has a near identical "bat at side" pose as Rowe, easy to mistake them.

I'll post more later, far more 19th century Detroit material to share (outside of Studio Proofs).

[Joe_G.]

Round 2 shifts to Tomlinson Studio.

All Tomlinson cabinets are rare, however, the 1886 issue of portraits and action poses is fairly well documented and understood. Old Cardboard website has a nice gallery of all the 1886 cards here (http://www.oldcardboard.com/n/tomlinson-cabinets/tomlinson-cabinets-gal.asp) (note dark socks & belt in all cases).

There were new action and portrait poses taken in 1887 for new members of the team (Briody, Conway, Dunlap, Ganzel, Knowlton, Shindle, Weidman and perhaps others) but only a scant few (three) examples were previously known by me until this Weidman surfaced at the Detroit Historical Society. Note the white appearing belt and socks (true of all four 1887 action cabinets I've studied). This 1887 photo of Weidman is a uniform match for the 1887 Gray Studio photoshoot.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020004.jpg

There were other Tomlinson cabinets in 1887 as well, portraits in suit and tie. The Detroit Historical Society has some that are new to me. These portraits were used to create the Detroit baseball currency issued in 1887 and 1888. Here we have 1887 portraits of Hanlon & Richardson.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020002.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020007.jpg

Beyond baseball currency, these same portriats were used to create an impressive poster for Detroit's 1887 season complete with schedule, but in every case the image is reversed (looking left becomes looking right etc.). The baseball currency didn't reverse the Tomlinson portraits, but this poster did. Regardless, what a beautiful piece, new to me.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/189/1956382003.jpg

View larger image here (https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*KiJT9XJS-5G2yCoX8hRu8g.jpeg) (ability to magnify).

I'll post round 3 tomorrow/soon (if someone doesn't beat me to it).

[pro9]

Joe and Jay....thanks for posting all these cabinets. Fantastic!!!

[Joe_G.]

Round 3 shifts to game in action photos.

Here is an interesting group of 5 images from same game at Detroit's Recreation Park. A couple of these images were previously known from the Detroit News archives and labeled as being from July 4th, 1887, however, the Detroit Historical Society has records suggesting it might be a home game from 1886. The Detroit pitcher would be southpaw Lady Baldwin who beat Boston 7-3 on July 4th 1887 or could have easily been captured in 1886 (Baldwin being league leader at 42-13).

First three images show the visiting team at bat. Neat to study position of catcher, umpire, baseline captain, defense, Detroit's bench, base runners, etc. Looks like visiting team is scoring some runs.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1944130002.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1944130001.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1944130003.jpg

The last two pictures show Detroit at bat, perhaps capturing moments before and after a three run homer (something that didn't occur on July 4th, 1887 game).

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1944130004.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1944130005.jpg

The images provide a rare and provide interesting view of 1880s baseball, game and stadium.

[pro9]

Joe, it looks like the players bench is on the field as there were no dugouts. When did dugouts come into use? Could you catch a foul ball in the area behind the line defining where the players could sit?

[SAllen2556]

Wow. Really cool stuff. That poster from 1887 is priceless. I have subscription to the Free Press archives and here's a blurb from the July 4th, 1887 game. The photos don't show an overflow crowd in the outfield. No mention of an overflow crowd in the July 4th, 1886 story, however. Note the very odd rule of a ball hit into the crowd.

274998

[insidethewrapper]

The white socks for Detroit means 1887 , right ? Someone needs to identify the opposing team.

[Joe_G.]

Joe, it looks like the players bench is on the field as there were no dugouts. When did dugouts come into use? Could you catch a foul ball in the area behind the line defining where the players could sit?

I'm not certain on the rule during late 1880s but suspect anything a player could reach and catch on the fly would count as an out. It could get interesting as you approach the opposing team's bench.

The white socks for Detroit means 1887 , right ? Someone needs to identify the opposing team.

Hello Mike, the home jerseys in 1886, 1887, and 1888 had white stockings. The 1886 Tomlinson cabinets were with the road uniforms (red socks and red belt). Craig Brown has accumulated a wealth of information on team uniforms by year, an endeavor I've tried to contribute to, check it out: http://www.threadsofourgame.com/category/1886-1890/#

Wow. Really cool stuff. That poster from 1887 is priceless. I have subscription to the Free Press archives and here's a blurb from the July 4th, 1887 game. The photos don't show an overflow crowd in the outfield. No mention of an overflow crowd in the July 4th, 1886 story, however. Note the very odd rule of a ball hit into the crowd.

Agreed Scott, the poster is impressive, hope more copies surface.

I have two Detroit game-in-progress images in my collection. The first one is an imperial cabinet from 1886, a home game against Chicago, in which Detroit was dressed in an special all white suit. This game featured a crowd of over 10,000 fans and they roped off the outfield.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=459&pictureid=22625

I also have a large 1888 negative of a Detroit game in Philadelphia. I really enjoy the game-in-progress images. The following is a digital sepia image created from the negative.

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=459&pictureid=22624

The Detroit Historical Society images could be 1886 or 1887 (or other), I hope to narrow it down with a little more research.

[Joe_G.]

A few more items of interest from the Detroit Historical Society . . .

. . . 1883 Ticket Book (two tickets inside)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1930110001.jpg

. . . 2 Shares of Detroit Wolverine Stock

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1990009001.jpg

. . . and a couple more Tomlinson cabinets

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/190/2014003190.jpg

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/187/1953020003.jpg

. . . A 1908 photo of Detroit Athletic Club baseball team with an aging Sam Thompson (active player) and his dear friend Charlie Bennett near center

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pastperfectonline/images/museum_428/189/1948132005.jpg

[kkkkandp]

Love the Wolverine stock certificate!

Joe, if you don't already have one... :D

[oldjudge]

Not an in game photograph, but it is a photograph of the 1884 Philadelphia NL team in Recreation Park. The park was closed after the 1886 season when Philadelphia moved to what became known as the Baker Bowl.

[oldjudge]

Looks like various team ticket books were very similar. Here is an 1886, almost full ticket book, from the NY Giants. The inside front cover is signed by owner John B Day. Day at one time owned both the Mets and the Giants, and to maximize revenue, stacked the Giants. Day was driven to financial ruin by the fallout from the formation of the Player's League.

[oldjudge]

.

[oldjudge]

,

[Joe_G.]

Very nice ticket book Jay! I remember encouraging you to add that to your collection. While not as significant as your Giant's book, I have a similar book from the 1889 Detroit International Association Wolverines.


http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=459&pictureid=22154