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justrun7
03-21-2017, 08:44 PM
I recently purchased this S74 silk of Chief Bender. I would like to submit it to SGC, but am a little confused on the difference between the white and colored versions. This is my first silk and I would love to learn more about them. Any help for my submission would be greatly appreciated.

http://i.imgur.com/B4Pcegzl.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/CDU26C7l.jpg

Leon
03-21-2017, 09:14 PM
There are 2 different series of S74s. There are white background ones that came with a paper ad backing originally (as yours is and used to have one) and there are colored background ones. The colored ones have the mfg and factory info at top and bottom of the front and no paper back. SGC only grades the white ones, without backing, as AUT....if I recall correctly. Good luck.

nolemmings
03-21-2017, 11:46 PM
I believe Leon is correct that SGC will grade all whites without backing as "A".

The colored silks, which you know can include white or whitish-looking examples, have no backing, have the factory and manufacturer info as Leon mentioned, and are longer in size. IMO, they are not worth grading, and SGC is all over the board on these. This is one set where I routinely crack them out of the holders, as the silks are durable and not easily damaged and again, the grading is inconsistent, IMO.
Here's one of mine:
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/prewar/various/large/10s74cobb.jpg

Edited to add: To be clear, I didn't mean to suggest they are not very valuable and thus not worth the grading--I love 'em and they will fetch nice $$$ when they look nice. Rather, I don't see the value added in paying for the privilege and I think you will end up disappointed and/or baffled by the grading results.

justrun7
03-22-2017, 08:51 PM
Thanks for all the info. Since it will only grade authentic, I may reconsider getting it graded. I guess it will come down to whether or not I want a slab for protection.

garymc
03-24-2017, 09:03 PM
I have only one S74-1 and several S74-2 in my Highlander type collection. My Hemphill's are a good example of the difference between the two. My Fords are a good example of another variation of S74-2 being that they have a white background with different color player instead of all one color. Anybody have any thoughts on this ????

edhans
03-25-2017, 09:04 AM
The S74 colored silks came in at least nine distinct colors, with many shades within each color. Off the top of my head: blue, green, tan. ivory, gold, purple, red, pink and orange. Some are more difficult (orange, purple, red and tan) but command very little, if any. premium. Blue and green are the most common. The ink comes in various shades of blue, black, red and brown, depending on the background color. Some colored silks have been observed with blank paper backing. It is unclear if this was as originally issued. A few examples can be seen on my website below.

BobC
03-25-2017, 05:17 PM
The S74 colored silks came in at least nine distinct colors, with many shades within each color. Off the top of my head: blue, green, tan. ivory, gold, purple, red, pink and orange. Some are more difficult (orange, purple, red and tan) but command very little, if any. premium. Blue and green are the most common. The ink comes in various shades of blue, black, red and brown, depending on the background color. Some colored silks have been observed with blank paper backing. It is unclear if this was as originally issued. A few examples can be seen on my website below.

There are actually only three different colors of ink used on the silks; blue, brown and a reddish-rust color. If you look just at the printing on the white version silks it is pretty easy to determine and see. When coupled with certain shades or colors on the colored version silks, it may give the appearance that there are more than three different ink colors but, it is only those three. Below you can see the blue, brown and reddish-rust colored inks used on these three different blue colored silks. You can also see the subtle shade differences in the blue colored material used that Ed was mentioning.

Also, these are not printed on silk. In fact, if you view the advertisement on the back of a white version silk it clearly states these are on satin material. See post #5 above. And if you've ever held and felt the material of a white version silk, I'm not so sure you'd call it satin either. Not sure where the description "silk" originally came from and why that stuck as the name for these S-74s. I've always assumed it was from early collectors, like Burdick, lumping these in with other similar collectibles that actually were printed on silk, and just giving them all that same "S" designation that was used in the American Card Catalog.

ValKehl
04-19-2017, 02:13 PM
Here's an example of a white silk with the Red Sun ad on the paper back:

Leon
04-20-2017, 08:24 AM
Great info. I concur that Burdick probably just lumped the silks and their ilk together...

There are actually only three different colors of ink used on the silks; blue, brown and a reddish-rust color. If you look just at the printing on the white version silks it is pretty easy to determine and see. When coupled with certain shades or colors on the colored version silks, it may give the appearance that there are more than three different ink colors but, it is only those three. Below you can see the blue, brown and reddish-rust colored inks used on these three different blue colored silks. You can also see the subtle shade differences in the blue colored material used that Ed was mentioning.

Also, these are not printed on silk. In fact, if you view the advertisement on the back of a white version silk it clearly states these are on satin material. See post #5 above. And if you've ever held and felt the material of a white version silk, I'm not so sure you'd call it satin either. Not sure where the description "silk" originally came from and why that stuck as the name for these S-74s. I've always assumed it was from early collectors, like Burdick, lumping these in with other similar collectibles that actually were printed on silk, and just giving them all that same "S" designation that was used in the American Card Catalog.

frankbmd
04-20-2017, 08:33 AM
Great info. I concur that Burdick probably just lumped the silks and their ilk together...

Very good Leon

The ilk of silk was the verdict of Burdick

The cotton was rotten and soon forgotten.