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Jason
03-10-2017, 10:07 AM
Hello everyone. Bear with me as I know this post is a bit long winded. It is a subject I have thought about often and one that does not have a definitive answer like so many things in the Pre-War vintage hobby. That being the T210 Orange Border error subset. Here is a little something I wrote on the subject. This is just my personal opinion on the creation of these cards and I welcome feedback and alternative theories. Basically I just want to get to the bottom of these error cards any way I can. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, information, etc.



T210 Orange Border Theory

The 1910 Old Mill Cigarette's T210 set comprises of 640 total pose's covering eight different Minor League affiliates of the Deadball Era of professional baseball. Amongst the different leagues represented in the set of cards is the Texas League, known as the 3rd Series in the T210 set. There are 95 cards in this Series alone and it boasts future MLB players such as Hank Gowdy, Sandy Burk, Jeff Tesreau and many others who experienced the dream of playing MLB Baseball. Even Everett Hornsby, Rogers' brother makes a appearance. Here are the teams that where included within the Texas League and their corresponding divisional records for the year 1910:

Regular Season Standings


Dallas Giants 83-57
.593

Houston Buffaloes 82-58
.586

San Antonio Bronchos 74-62
.544

Fort Worth Panthers 75-63
.543

Shreveport Pirates 75-66
.532

Galveston Sand Crabs 64-75
.460

Oklahoma City Indians 63-74
.460

Waco Navigators 38-99
.277


Courtesy of Baseball Reference. The Image wouldnt upload.







It was a pretty competitive league that year. Which brings us to the cards themselves. As mentioned, the checklist has 95 different player poses. With a well known Orange Border subset comprising 20 of the players represented in the original 95 Red Border examples a "Master" Series 3 set would technically be 115 cards. I have no knowledge if anyone has ever finished the T210-3 Master set but, I can confirm one is close to being completed by myself.

For those uninitiated with the T210-3 Orange Border subset, I will attempt to explain the consensus amongst the hobby community I was told when I first heard about these factory error cards. The story goes that during the end of the printing process the ink started to run low and the bright red borders were printed orange for the last few sheets of cards. 20 different players have been confirmed to have Orange Borders of the original 95 cards in the Series. I believe this to be an accurate number. It does speak to the sheet size printed as the 20 subjects might have been the sheet count or possibly it was double printed with two of each player for a count of 40 per sheet. Either way, they are vastly different from their red brothers in border color but identical in every other way. Except for one card, which is the basis for my theory on the creation or better yet the printing process of these cards.

Like everyone else, I believed these to have been created in the latter part of the printing process. That is, until I had posted a thread discussing them on Net54. Towards the end of the conversation, a fellow collector mentioned the missing A on the Series 3 Red Border cards of Jones from the end of the Oklahoma team designation. I had this card and was aware of the missing A and then compared it to my Orange Border Jones which did, in fact, have the A on the end of Oklahoma. Interesting. This prompted my thinking that maybe we have this all wrong, that the Orange Border cards were printed first. Possibly, it was done in an ink mixing error at the beginning of the printing process. The missing A is a huge key to this theory. Here is what I think may have happened.

We all know of famous printing plate accident/ errors. The T206 set is riddled with cards where the plate is rumored to have been damaged or just not striking correctly. Such as, the Nodgrass and Shappe errors. I believe the T210-3 Jones missing A card falls into this category. My theory is the first batch of Series 3 card's printed were in fact Orange due to an ink mixing error. Perhaps, they tried to add some ink to the batch resulting in the few yellow border T210s that have been confirmed. After coming to the conclusion they had to start over with a fresh batch to achieve the red ink desired, they of course had to clean the plates off from the orange/yellow ink. During this process I believe the Jones plate may have been damaged or the A obstructed in some way. Which would account for the missing A in the subsequent printing of the red bordered card's that account for the majority of the known Series 3 cards.



Of course this is just my opinion and likely can never be proven. I have started to research T210 printing and the factories the cards and the cigarettes themselves were produced in. Hopefully one day a answer will come about and advance this theory. If not its still a fun subject to think about. This is a great hobby we all share and it's been so much fun especially as of late. See you all at the National in 2017!

Jason
03-10-2017, 10:15 AM
Jones Orange with A and the Red one without.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/TheT206Fiend/Jones_zpst2xdxhti.jpeg (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/TheT206Fiend/media/Jones_zpst2xdxhti.jpeg.html)

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/TheT206Fiend/Jones_zpsvsjwynsf.jpeg (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/TheT206Fiend/media/Jones_zpsvsjwynsf.jpeg.html)

Harford20
03-10-2017, 10:19 AM
Jason, I have a few of the T210-3 San Antonio Bronchos, both red and orange border (as I live in San Antonio currently), so I have not seen the Jones cards.

My first question would be has a red-border Jones with the "A" ever been seen? Meaning could there have been a defect in the initial plate (missing the "A") and then be cleaned/re-set to have the "A" present? This theory would still support the orange border done at the end of the print runs.

Just a thought,
Dave

Jason
03-10-2017, 10:24 AM
Jason, I have a few of the T210-3 San Antonio Bronchos, both red and orange border (as I live in San Antonio currently), so I have not seen the Jones cards.

My first question would be has a red-border Jones with the "A" ever been seen? Meaning could there have been a defect in the initial plate (missing the "A") and then be cleaned/re-set to have the "A" present? This theory would still support the orange border done at the end of the print runs.

Just a thought,
Dave

I have seen a Red Jones with just a fleck of an A but never a full A.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/TheT206Fiend/4132a_lg-1_zpsdhzgbrjn.jpeg (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/TheT206Fiend/media/4132a_lg-1_zpsdhzgbrjn.jpeg.html)

Vintagecatcher
03-10-2017, 10:25 AM
Hi Jason,

Or perhaps they initially created an orange border test sheet and liked the looks of the red border test sheet version better.

From what I have seen in other issues is that when ink runs out during the printing process you can see a graduated fade as the last color run is added.

Patrick

Jason
03-10-2017, 10:40 AM
Hi Jason,

Or perhaps they initially created an orange border test sheet and liked the looks of the red border test sheet version better.

From what I have seen in other issues is that when ink runs out during the printing process you can see a graduated fade as the last color run is added.

Patrick

I think thats a feasible scenario as well. That would mean the Series 3 cards would have been the first tested as no Orange cards have been found in other Series. And it would have had to been quite a few test sheets as some OB's have 6-8 examples known of a few players.


Dave, your thoughts stick with the accepted theory of the OB's creation and could very well be correct.

Jason
03-10-2017, 11:44 AM
I dont get to post this often. My pride and joy!

Jobu
03-10-2017, 12:03 PM
That is a red card? It looks more like the orange cards to me.

I have seen a Red Jones with just a fleck of an A but never a full A.

Jason
03-10-2017, 12:09 PM
That is a red card? It looks more like the orange cards to me.

I thought the same thing when I first saw it but thought my eyes were playing with me. I just checked the auction description an it had it listed as an OB. Good catch

Jobu
03-10-2017, 12:20 PM
It works with your theory - the SGC card has more of the A than the BVG card, which makes it look like it was wearing away as they printed the cards. That would mean that the cards with the red borders where the A is completely missing would have been printed last.

Fun post, thanks for sharing.

steve B
03-10-2017, 08:00 PM
My only orange border is Nagel, and I don't have Jones at all. So no comparisons there.

I think the idea that it was incorrectly mixed ink is the most likely. Even into the 1980's the ink was often mixed by hand from a guide. Pint of color, so much of other colors added to make the exact color wanted.

And as Patrick pointed out underinking usually just looks like a fade. I don't recall seeing any T210s with a border that would make me think they were two colors- red over yellow. (Making the yellow borders their own mystery)

It's most likely they were printed at American Lithographic alongside the T206s, and it's also probable the sheets were a good deal larger than 20 or 40 cards. The orange borders are a very solid indicator of there being 20 subjects, just not how many of each were on a sheet. I'd think that number was somewhere around 160 based on other similar cards. (And that could be way off in either direction)

The probable way the plates were laid out would have been printing a bunch of transfers from a master then laying out the plate using those transfers. It's a bit too small, but the missing A could be on one place on the sheet, or it could be from a defective master. With the A only being on orange borders I'd lean towards a defective master. Which also makes a decent argument for the orange borders being made first.

Steve B

itslarry
03-10-2017, 08:09 PM
I REALLY enjoyed seeing those orange boarders. The way they pop against the black and white is amazing to me. Thanks is a ton for sharing the pictures and the write up.:)

Vintagecatcher
03-10-2017, 08:26 PM
Perhaps the yellow borders and orange borders were both "test" colors before red was agreed upon as the color of choice.

I think it's also important to remember that the T211 Red Sun set is a spin off of the T210 Series 8 cards and the green border was selected for that set.

Food for thought!

Patrick

bnorth
03-10-2017, 09:55 PM
I dont get to post this often. My pride and joy!

Beautiful cards Jason, thanks for sharing. Best of luck finishing the series/set.

Leon
03-11-2017, 09:17 AM
I dont get to post this often. My pride and joy!

Those are great looking when seeing them side by side. Great info too and thanks for being kind and sharing!!

Jason
03-11-2017, 10:06 AM
My only orange border is Nagel, and I don't have Jones at all. So no comparisons there.

I think the idea that it was incorrectly mixed ink is the most likely. Even into the 1980's the ink was often mixed by hand from a guide. Pint of color, so much of other colors added to make the exact color wanted.

And as Patrick pointed out underinking usually just looks like a fade. I don't recall seeing any T210s with a border that would make me think they were two colors- red over yellow. (Making the yellow borders their own mystery)

It's most likely they were printed at American Lithographic alongside the T206s, and it's also probable the sheets were a good deal larger than 20 or 40 cards. The orange borders are a very solid indicator of there being 20 subjects, just not how many of each were on a sheet. I'd think that number was somewhere around 160 based on other similar cards. (And that could be way off in either direction)

The probable way the plates were laid out would have been printing a bunch of transfers from a master then laying out the plate using those transfers. It's a bit too small, but the missing A could be on one place on the sheet, or it could be from a defective master. With the A only being on orange borders I'd lean towards a defective master. Which also makes a decent argument for the orange borders being made first.

Steve B


Steve, thank you for sharing some information on the possible printing process. I agree the sheets probably were larger than my 20-40 estimate. 20 subjects per seems pretty accurate since the OB count is 20 as well.

Patrick, whether as test sheets or the first sheets printed in the actual run I would think if the OB's did in fact come first they would be considered as scraps sheets either way.

I will also share another clue in the process that supports my original theory of the creation timeline. This partial yellow Border Jones with the A. Though it is not as complete as the OB examples and might have been deteriorating through the print run

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd408/TheT206Fiend/Jones%20Yellow_zpsaonti5pi.jpeg (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/TheT206Fiend/media/Jones%20Yellow_zpsaonti5pi.jpeg.html)

Jason
03-11-2017, 10:16 AM
Beautiful cards Jason, thanks for sharing. Best of luck finishing the series/set.

Thank you Ben! My recent pickup of your Hornsby card got me a step closer. I missed out on a few of those in the last couple years.