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uniship
03-03-2017, 11:09 AM
since the recent lucky 7 find, how many are known out there now? Is it north of 20? thx

Sean
03-03-2017, 11:50 AM
My recollection is that there are 22, but I could be wrong. And 12 of them came from just two finds.

Baseball Rarities
03-03-2017, 12:59 PM
I am also aware of 22 different examples, including the one that is in the museum.

uniship
03-03-2017, 01:42 PM
Is anybody familiar with the other Cobb t206 backs that might be in a similar population range or even less?

orly57
03-03-2017, 01:56 PM
I get that there are rare-back collectors, but this card is so over-hyped. I can think of several early cobb postcards that are far cooler and more rare. If resale value were not a consideration, there are probably 10 other Cobb cards I prefer to own.

Sean
03-03-2017, 02:06 PM
Is anybody familiar with the other Cobb t206 backs that might be in a similar population range or even less?

The T206 Cobb red/ Broadleaf 460 has only one known copy. It belongs to Jaime B. There are other rare Cobb/ back combinations... Uzit, Lenox, etc. These cards are nowhere near as valuable as the Cobb back because all these backs exist on many other T206s besides the Cobb, whereas the Cobb back only appears on Cobb reds.

Jobu
03-03-2017, 02:52 PM
Although they are not perfect, you can get some sense of the relative rarity of different backs by looking at the pop reports from PSA and SGC. PSA's T206 list is here:

http://www.psacard.com/pop/t206/

Is anybody familiar with the other Cobb t206 backs that might be in a similar population range or even less?

Stampsfan
03-03-2017, 04:11 PM
But aren't there different numbers of backs depending on the player? That was explained to me by another person on this forum.

For example, back 1 for player A might be rare, but back 1 for player B might be more common. ANd it affects the price, from what I am told.

Is there a place where those types of rarities are defined, and perhaps have a "book" value or estimate?

RedsFan1941
03-03-2017, 05:36 PM
trying to simplify a Cobb/Cobb and it's popularity by only calling it a 'rare back' is like call a 52T mantle just another high number.

uniship
03-07-2017, 09:38 AM
The cobb/cobb back is truly one of the hobby's great cards. I'd say top 5 all-time personally. I just find it surprising that some of the other Cobb rare backs don't command more - especially the ones with lower pops than the cobb/cobb back.

ullmandds
03-07-2017, 11:03 AM
The cobb/cobb back is truly one of the hobby's great cards. I'd say top 5 all-time personally. I just find it surprising that some of the other Cobb rare backs don't command more - especially the ones with lower pops than the cobb/cobb back.

I totally agree with the first half of your statement.

But...the Cobb/Cobb card is not a t206...it is a separate issue...a one of one...whose distribution is a mystery.

Comparing to other rare back t206's is like apples to mangos!

uniship
03-07-2017, 11:15 AM
uh oh - saying cobb/cobb isn't a t206 - blasphemous!! :)

scotgreb
03-07-2017, 12:05 PM
But...the Cobb/Cobb card is not a t206...it is a separate issue...a one of one...whose distribution is a mystery.

You've touched on an issue that has confused me (and likely others). Where does the hobby stand on this issue? My belief / opinion has been that the Cobb/Cobb is not part of the T206 set. Is there a definitive answer?

Sean
03-07-2017, 12:30 PM
You could start a poll. My vote would be not a T206.

ullmandds
03-07-2017, 12:37 PM
it is definitively...NOT a t206!

bn2cardz
03-07-2017, 12:42 PM
But...the Cobb/Cobb card is not a t206...it is a separate issue...a one of one...whose distribution is a mystery.

You've touched on an issue that has confused me (and likely others). Where does the hobby stand on this issue? My belief / opinion has been that the Cobb/Cobb is not part of the T206 set. Is there a definitive answer?

It is heavily disputed by some. My thought is that the term 't206' was coined and defined Jefferson Burdick since he called the Cobb/Cobb a t206 it is. If someone else comes up with another name for the set they can redefine the set as they please.

rats60
03-07-2017, 01:23 PM
It is heavily disputed by some. My thought is that the term 't206' was coined and defined Jefferson Burdick since he called the Cobb/Cobb a t206 it is. If someone else comes up with another name for the set they can redefine the set as they please.

It is like people who call 1949 Leaf Baseball cards 1948 or the 1952 Topps Mantle his rookie card. He made a mistake and it just keeps getting carried forward.

bn2cardz
03-07-2017, 01:40 PM
It is like people who call 1949 Leaf Baseball cards 1948 or the 1952 Topps Mantle his rookie card. He made a mistake and it just keeps getting carried forward.

No that is not the same. It is his own terminology that we all adopted. If you want to change the classification then you would have to change the name for the set. It really is more of an argument of semantics. It was the original definition and classification so it will stay that way. Just like t213-1 has its own classification even if others now disagree with Burdick's choice.

I believe each series could be considered its own set, but that doesn't change the fact that Burdick defined it all as one set so it stays that way. Just because I disagree with it doesn't change it.

ullmandds
03-07-2017, 01:44 PM
No that is not the same. It is his own terminology that we all adopted. If you want to change the classification then you would have to change the name for the set. It really is more of an argument of semantics. It was the original definition and classification so it will stay that way. Just like t213-1 has its own classification even if others now disagree with Burdick's choice.

I believe each series could be considered its own set, but that doesn't change the fact that Burdick defined it all as one set so it stays that way. Just because I disagree with it doesn't change it.

t206 were "defined" by burdick as white borders. with this loose definition...t213 1 and t206 cobb/cobb as well as many many other issues could be included.

truth is that burdicks classification system was revolutionary for the era...but as times change...and more info is garnished...so do classifications. IE planet pluto!

tedzan
03-08-2017, 08:28 AM
It is like people who call 1949 Leaf Baseball cards 1948 or the 1952 Topps Mantle his rookie card. He made a mistake and it just keeps getting carried forward.

Well stated, rats60.

It "bugs" me when someone refers to the 1949 LEAF BB cards as "1948"....I know better, since these were the first color BB cards I collected as a kid in the Spring of 1949.

Or, calling a 1952 TOPPS Mantle his "rookie"....when I collected 1951 Bowman cards a year before I acquired my 1952 TOPPS Mantle in the Fall of 1952.

Furthermore, calling the 1910 COUPON cards "T213-1" also "bugs" me.... when my research has confirmed that these cards were issued circa Spring/Summer of 1910.
This timeline is exactly when the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card was also issued.


TED Z
.

tedzan
03-08-2017, 08:30 AM
This Cobb is scarcer than the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card.

Last time I checked the Pop Report's data, there are less than 10 of this AB 460 graded.


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AB460CobbBat25xx.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AB460CobbBat25x.jpg



TED Z
.

z28jd
03-08-2017, 09:49 AM
But...the Cobb/Cobb card is not a t206...it is a separate issue...a one of one...whose distribution is a mystery.

You've touched on an issue that has confused me (and likely others). Where does the hobby stand on this issue? My belief / opinion has been that the Cobb/Cobb is not part of the T206 set. Is there a definitive answer?

Definitely not a T206. It's a one of one card, basically it's own set.

Sean
03-08-2017, 04:20 PM
Definitely not a T206. It's a one of one card, basically it's own set.

And quite possibly never distributed in tobacco packs or tins.

ls7plus
03-08-2017, 07:18 PM
I get that there are rare-back collectors, but this card is so over-hyped. I can think of several early cobb postcards that are far cooler and more rare. If resale value were not a consideration, there are probably 10 other Cobb cards I prefer to own.

Orlando, it seems like we are twin sons of different mothers when it comes to early Cobbs--Right on!

Larry

ls7plus
03-08-2017, 07:22 PM
But...the Cobb/Cobb card is not a t206...it is a separate issue...a one of one...whose distribution is a mystery.

You've touched on an issue that has confused me (and likely others). Where does the hobby stand on this issue? My belief / opinion has been that the Cobb/Cobb is not part of the T206 set. Is there a definitive answer?

The hobby has been split on this for quite some time. My opinion is that sellers favor calling it a T206 simply because so many people collect T206. I certainly agree that it is not a regular T206 issue, through the latter's mode of distribution.

Happy collecting,

Larry

ls7plus
03-08-2017, 07:24 PM
Well stated, rats60.

It "bugs" me when someone refers to the 1949 LEAF BB cards as "1948"....I know better, since these were the first color BB cards I collected as a kid in the Spring of 1949.

Or, calling a 1952 TOPPS Mantle his "rookie"....when I collected 1951 Bowman cards a year before I acquired my 1952 TOPPS Mantle in the Fall of 1952.

Furthermore, calling the 1910 COUPON cards "T213-1" also "bugs" me.... when my research has confirmed that these cards were issued circa Spring/Summer of 1910.
This timeline is exactly when the Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card was also issued.


TED Z
.

Good to hear from you, Ted. Hope all is well. I also always get a laugh when I hear somebody saying something about a 1952 Topps Mantle rookie--no such animal exists!

Highest regards,

Larry

Blunder19
03-08-2017, 08:28 PM
if anyone has one for sale... cough cough..... im just saying... i think i can find a home for it...

:)

and yes there are several rarer cobb cards then the cobb/cobb back..

The RH (6 known), the Drum (3 known), the Lenox (10 known), the blank back (2 known), the sov 460 (im aware of only 5), Ab350 (19 known)... carolina brights (14 known)... the T213-3 factory 8 overprint is a 1 of 1... and so is the BL460 as Sean stated earlier...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/blunder19/media/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg.html)

Sean
03-08-2017, 09:23 PM
if anyone has one for sale... cough cough..... im just saying... i think i can find a home for it...

:)

and yes there are several rarer cobb cards then the cobb/cobb back..

The RH (6 known), the Drum (3 known), the Lenox (10 known), the blank back (2 known), the sov 460 (im aware of only 5), Ab350 (19 known)... carolina brights (14 known)... the T213-3 factory 8 overprint is a 1 of 1... and so is the BL460 as Sean stated earlier...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/blunder19/media/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg.html)

.....And of course the missing T214 Victory. :(

Blunder19
03-08-2017, 09:35 PM
right.... T214 Victory.. (2 known) spoke to an owner of one of them.. said he will be buried with the card...

wouldn't be the first time I had to do some digging for a card...

:)

Rich Falvo
03-08-2017, 09:40 PM
if anyone has one for sale... cough cough..... im just saying... i think i can find a home for it...

:)

and yes there are several rarer cobb cards then the cobb/cobb back..

The RH (6 known), the Drum (3 known), the Lenox (10 known), the blank back (2 known), the sov 460 (im aware of only 5), Ab350 (19 known)... carolina brights (14 known)... the T213-3 factory 8 overprint is a 1 of 1... and so is the BL460 as Sean stated earlier...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/blunder19/media/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg.html)

Beautiful! I don't think my Izzy Hoffman back brand set will look quite as impressive. :)

Sean
03-08-2017, 10:01 PM
right.... T214 Victory.. (2 known) spoke to an owner of one of them.. said he will be buried with the card...



:)

Did he say how soon?

Bigb13
03-09-2017, 08:47 AM
if anyone has one for sale... cough cough..... im just saying... i think i can find a home for it...

:)

and yes there are several rarer cobb cards then the cobb/cobb back..

The RH (6 known), the Drum (3 known), the Lenox (10 known), the blank back (2 known), the sov 460 (im aware of only 5), Ab350 (19 known)... carolina brights (14 known)... the T213-3 factory 8 overprint is a 1 of 1... and so is the BL460 as Sean stated earlier...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/blunder19/media/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg.html)

Wow Jamie that is very impressive!

Leon
03-11-2017, 10:12 AM
As a Red Cobby lover those are quite the sight. We will look at them as often as you want to show them :).

if anyone has one for sale... cough cough..... im just saying... i think i can find a home for it...

:)

and yes there are several rarer cobb cards then the cobb/cobb back..

The RH (6 known), the Drum (3 known), the Lenox (10 known), the blank back (2 known), the sov 460 (im aware of only 5), Ab350 (19 known)... carolina brights (14 known)... the T213-3 factory 8 overprint is a 1 of 1... and so is the BL460 as Sean stated earlier...

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg309/blunder19/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg (http://s251.photobucket.com/user/blunder19/media/8-17-15_zps9ek6isl2.jpg.html)

ullmandds
03-12-2017, 07:05 PM
Did he say how soon?

The owner of the other will be very happy to hear this !

Yoda
03-12-2017, 07:50 PM
I know BMW has had on offer for some time, at an enormous number, a T206 Cobb Bat off ; it is GAI rated an 8 and I don't recall from the flip if it is the first graded. I have no idea how rare this combo is but there can't be many around of that quality.

Yoda
03-12-2017, 08:13 PM
I meant to add this Cobb has a beautiful Uzit back.

Sean
03-13-2017, 12:26 AM
I meant to add this Cobb has a beautiful Uzit back.

If it is still in a GAI holder, there must be a reason. Probably because it's trimmed and couldn't cross over. It is a really nice card, but more likely a PSA Authentic than a PSA 8.

PhillipAbbott79
03-13-2017, 01:10 AM
Holy crap. That cobb run unreal.