Opinions on Gil hodges game used glove

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Just picked this up and was wondering if anyone knew if this was authentic. The markings say A28 2G2S.

Please help.thanks256985

256986

256987

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Just picked this up and was wondering if anyone knew if this was authentic. The markings say A28 2G2S.

Please help.thanks256985

256986

256987

Here

[vintagesportscollector]

Where did you pick it up? How was it described? What makes you think it is game used? Give us the full story and more to go on, so we can try to help you.

[vintagesportscollector]

I can't see the markings well from these photos, but you may have an inexpensive store model Hiawatha brand mitt. Here is a link with a brief history of the Gambles Hiawatha brand.

http://www.vintagebaseballgloveforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4798

[71buc]

You need to be very careful and educate yourself prior to making such purchases. I have to believe a game used Gil Hodges glove would certainly attract more than one bidder and should sell for much more than $250. If you were the seller of this glove wouldn't you do research prior to putting it on eBay? I did a Google search and found another example in minutes. Heritage sold the one below sold for $3100 in April 2010.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-collectibles/others/1958-gil-hodges-game-used-fielder-s-glove/a/717-82176.s

Eight months later it sold for $4400 at Lelands.

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionDetail/65783/November-2010-Catalog/Sports/Baseball-Equipment/Lot155~Gil-Hodges-Signed-Game-Used-Glove

If a deal seems too good to be true it usually is.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

You need to be very careful and educate yourself prior to making such purchases. I have to believe a game used Gil Hodges glove would certainly attract more than one bidder and should sell for much more than $250. If you were the seller of this glove wouldn't you do research prior to putting it on eBay? I did a Google search and found another example in minutes. Heritage sold the one below sold for $3100 in April 2010.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-collectibles/others/1958-gil-hodges-game-used-fielder-s-glove/a/717-82176.s

Eight months later it sold for $4400 at Lelands.

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionDetail/65783/November-2010-Catalog/Sports/Baseball-Equipment/Lot155~Gil-Hodges-Signed-Game-Used-Glove

If a deal seems too good to be true it usually is.

Thanks for the replies...

I did look around before I purchased it and saw those exact models, however those are late 50's. the seller explained this was a 55 mitt, and I tried to photo match and couldn't really find any 55 photos of the glove. He was asking 750 at first and I messaged him kindly asking if he'd take 250, so in fairness he was asking a bit more. He described it as authentic and game used though which is why I figured I could take a shot. I got lucky with a dodger garment bag earlier this month and this seemed to be a great addition to put in the case. So is this 100% not legit??

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Thanks for the replies...

I did look around before I purchased it and saw those exact models, however those are late 50's. the seller explained this was a 55 mitt, and I tried to photo match and couldn't really find any 55 photos of the glove. He was asking 750 at first and I messaged him kindly asking if he'd take 250, so in fairness he was asking a bit more. He described it as authentic and game used though which is why I figured I could take a shot. I got lucky with a dodger garment bag earlier this month and this seemed to be a great addition to put in the case. So is this 100% not legit??


Also it was only up for about 10 minutes and in that time I was able to contact the seller and work out a deal. I promise I wouldn't go for the mitt if it was up for a while with no bidders :confused:

[71buc]

It is your money Stephen and you should spend it however you deem fit. You can continue to gamble it if you like. You seem to be passionate about your collecting. Unfortunately this hobby is fraught with unscrupulous people who seek to exploit that passion. We all have opinions and we all have made mistakes. I know because many years ago I purchased a game used Gary Carter jersey. I got a great deal too:rolleyes: I now know its worthless. Nonetheless it remains in my collection to serve as a reminder that I shouldn't buy things I know nothing about especially from strangers. I hope the seller of your Hodges glove had more provenance than the story he told in his listing.


"hi, I've decided it's time to start letting go of some of my extraordinary sports memorabilia collection. This item up for bid is a 1955 Gil Hodges Brooklyn Dodgers game used baseball mitt. This first baseman Mitt was given to my grandfather in Brooklyn in 1955 by Gil Hodges himself at the stadium. It was handed to him by Gil himself after the laces broke around the wrist area on the glove. It's been in our family now for 61 years.this is an unbelievable find. Please whoever wins this item please enjoy it and treasure it. I will be offering free priority shipping. All proceeds will go to help benefit our local youth baseball program so please bid and Bid often. Thank you and God bless"

You asked for opinions...I tend to believe you own a Gary Carter jersey.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Haha you are 100% right. I just like buying off eBay because they protect me at least. I already told the seller refund me and keep 20 for his baseball little leaguers. I have good intentions and am glad this forum is here filled with people like you. As you see, I look out for the fellow collector as well when things pop up on eBay and I shoot PMs out, so thanks for helping me out in return with the opinion. Guess I'll keep chugging along and looking for the next diamond in the ruff, cause that's what makes me wake up in the morning.

[vintagesportscollector]

So this was on eBay?? You worked out a deal, without knowing what you are buying, and now within hours you are returning it. It's a good thing ebay offers such good buyer protection. Stephen, you do this all the time - please just be up front and disclose information if you come on to this forum saying "please help", and expect people to bail you out. You are just wasting everyones time when you don't. I know you don't want someone to snatch it up from under you, but when you say "I just picked this up", most people will look on ebay and see the auction anyway - so just cut to the chase. Best of luck!

[Republicaninmass]

Did the seller offer a return policy off ebay? In my limited experience, I have not been able to get a refund when I took a risk and had a seller end early. Consider yourself extremely lucky if he's willing to refund.

[bnorth]

Haha you are 100% right. I just like buying off eBay because they protect me at least. I already told the seller refund me and keep 20 for his baseball little leaguers. I have good intentions and am glad this forum is here filled with people like you. As you see, I look out for the fellow collector as well when things pop up on eBay and I shoot PMs out, so thanks for helping me out in return with the opinion. Guess I'll keep chugging along and looking for the next diamond in the ruff, cause that's what makes me wake up in the morning.

Nothing personal but could you please post your eBay ID?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

So this was on eBay?? You worked out a deal, without knowing what you are buying, and now within hours you are returning it. It's a good thing ebay offers such good buyer protection. Stephen, you do this all the time - please just be up front and disclose information if you come on to this forum saying "please help", and expect people to bail you out. You are just wasting everyones time when you don't. I know you don't want someone to snatch it up from under you, but when you say "I just picked this up", most people will look on ebay and see the auction anyway - so just cut to the chase. Best of luck!

I was not trying to hide anything. I do almost all my buying on ebay. If you thought I was hiding something I apologize. Yes I worry about someone snatching things up from under me which has happened about 4 times when I posted on here lol that is why I buy first then ask, as I can always return on ebay.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Nothing personal but could you please post your eBay ID?

Why would you need my ID?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Did the seller offer a return policy off ebay? In my limited experience, I have not been able to get a refund when I took a risk and had a seller end early. Consider yourself extremely lucky if he's willing to refund.

I did not work out the deal OFF ebay... I just had him lower his BIN price from 750 to 250.

He already refunded me, and I donated 20 of the refund to his little league program.

[bnorth]

Why would you need my ID?

Blocked bidder list. Like I said nothing personal but you buy things and then decide to return them on a very regular basis. I am sure I am not the only one who would appreciate it. My wife does the same thing on Amazon and it drives me nuts.

[Republicaninmass]

I did not work out the deal OFF ebay... I just had him lower his BIN price from 750 to 250.

He already refunded me, and I donated 20 of the refund to his little league program.

That makes sense then. Ebay makes it easy for the anyone to buy stuff, and ask opinions later. Was the $20 for the seller, less the shipping he had to refund, and the cost of the label to ship back to him?

[ajenks3378]

Blocked bidder list. Like I said nothing personal but you buy things and then decide to return them on a very regular basis. I am sure I am not the only one who would appreciate it. My wife does the same thing on Amazon and it drives me nuts.

Blocked bidder list!!! That so made me smile this morning.
Thank you
Andy

[keithsky]

My first red flag on the glove would be the guy said it was from 1955 or 55 as you stated. That was the year they won the World Series so I know 100% that anybody in there right mind wouldnt sell a glove from 1955 for 250.00 of any of the players from that team especially a Hodges glove down to the bench warmers. I see you are a collector of Brooklyn stuff don't you think that would be unrealistic a glove from the 55 season for 250.00? I'm sure the guy selling it would have done some research to know what he has before listing it and throwing out a wild number to list it at. It always seems people use the "My Grandfather" or " Came from an estate sale" to make it sound legit when they know it isn't . I always laugh when they use the "My Grandfather got it" when it relates to a Babe Ruth autograph. Just my 2 cents on this post.

[frankbmd]

My first red flag on the glove would be the guy said it was from 1955 or 55 as you stated. That was the year they won the World Series so I know 100% that anybody in there right mind wouldnt sell a glove from 1955 for 250.00 of any of the players from that team especially a Hodges glove down to the bench warmers. I see you are a collector of Brooklyn stuff don't you think that would be unrealistic a glove from the 55 season for 250.00? I'm sure the guy selling it would have done some research to know what he has before listing it and throwing out a wild number to list it at. It always seems people use the "My Grandfather" or " Came from an estate sale" to make it sound legit when they know it isn't . I always laugh when they use the "My Grandfather got it" when it relates to a Babe Ruth autograph. Just my 2 cents on this post.

My grandfather's estate wasn't worth squat.:eek:



He was a nice man though.;)

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Blocked bidder list. Like I said nothing personal but you buy things and then decide to return them on a very regular basis. I am sure I am not the only one who would appreciate it. My wife does the same thing on Amazon and it drives me nuts.

I get offended when you say I do this all the time.

I have made over 300 purchases for over 50K this past year and only posted 3-4 things on here for advice.

How about this? Post yours and I won't give you my business I promise. No hard feelings.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

That makes sense then. Ebay makes it easy for the anyone to buy stuff, and ask opinions later. Was the $20 for the seller, less the shipping he had to refund, and the cost of the label to ship back to him?

No I never made him send it. I bought it last night, told him wait, and then asked for a refund when people on this forum helped with advice. I just simply donated the 20 for his youth baseball.

[bnorth]

I get offended when you say I do this all the time.

I have made over 300 purchases for over 50K this past year and only posted 3-4 things on here for advice.

How about this? Post yours and I won't give you my business I promise. No hard feelings.

I do like how you only got offended by me saying you do it "on a very regular basis" but when someone else said "you do it all the time" that was OK.

I rarely sell on eBay but this is my ID vicsd please do not buy and return an item from me because you have buyers remorse.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I get offended when you say I do this all the time.

I have made over 300 purchases for over 50K this past year and only posted 3-4 things on here for advice.

How about this? Post yours and I won't give you my business I promise. No hard feelings.

Stephen,

You do know that people can search for all of your posts? Since you have joined, many of your posts have been asking for help and advice. I think that you have been called out on this in the past as well?

I don't want to be caught up in your battles, I just think that you should be honest about your involvement on Net54.

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Stephen,

You do know that people can search for all of your posts? Since you have joined, many of your posts have been asking for help and advice. I think that you have been called out on this in the past as well?

I don't want to be caught up in your battles, I just think that you should be honest about your involvement on Net54.

Jeff

I am obviously aware that you can search my posts. Yes I ask for help. What I am saying is that I bought a few baseball cards back in February which were fake and that is documented on here (I believe 3 of them) and then recently got burned with the photos (which I like) and the glove. Oh and that fantasy gehrig piece which I keep on my desk till this day to remind me to research first. I do not understand why some people on here get so uptight about me buying and then asking for opinions. I have done business with a lot of people on here whom I still talk to and text to this day. I guess it may just be an age gap thing as to why some people get so upset on here. I move fast as do a lot of the people who collect in my generation. I act first and ask questions later (as long as I am protected) because honestly I have picked up a few great pieces by doing this... Yes, I'm still sour about that Royals Robinson pin which I posted on here before purchasing that sold for $250 3 minutes after I asked for opinions. Whoever did that on here had no problem doing it so that is their method I guess (lay low and pounce quietly) much like mine is buy first and learn along the way by asking questions after. I have lost no money by doing this and have harmed no one in the process. They people who were selling these items were the deceptive ones not me. You ask about my ebay ID as if I get buyers remorse. What I get is not buyers remorse. I have never bought something "REAL" and then returned it ever. I only return fake items. So as long as you are kosher on ebay you would have no reasons for me returning anything. It's basically a way to keep the scammers from getting over on me. If it's too good to be true it probably is (however I lose nothing if I am protected).

Sorry for the rant, however I just don't understand why I am met with backlash for simply asking opinions on items. I buy them to keep not to resell anyways. It's not like I'm asking you to buy it from me. I would just like opinions to see if it is worth keeping and I would have no problems returning the favor for items I am knowledgeable about.

[felada]

Because you contribute nothing to the board besides
Asking for help for your latest purchase

I am obviously aware that you can search my posts. Yes I ask for help. What I am saying is that I bought a few baseball cards back in February which were fake and that is documented on here (I believe 3 of them) and then recently got burned with the photos (which I like) and the glove. Oh and that fantasy gehrig piece which I keep on my desk till this day to remind me to research first. I do not understand why some people on here get so uptight about me buying and then asking for opinions. I have done business with a lot of people on here whom I still talk to and text to this day. I guess it may just be an age gap thing as to why some people get so upset on here. I move fast as do a lot of the people who collect in my generation. I act first and ask questions later (as long as I am protected) because honestly I have picked up a few great pieces by doing this... Yes, I'm still sour about that Royals Robinson pin which I posted on here before purchasing that sold for $250 3 minutes after I asked for opinions. Whoever did that on here had no problem doing it so that is their method I guess (lay low and pounce quietly) much like mine is buy first and learn along the way by asking questions after. I have lost no money by doing this and have harmed no one in the process. They people who were selling these items were the deceptive ones not me. You ask about my ebay ID as if I get buyers remorse. What I get is not buyers remorse. I have never bought something "REAL" and then returned it ever. I only return fake items. So as long as you are kosher on ebay you would have no reasons for me returning anything. It's basically a way to keep the scammers from getting over on me. If it's too good to be true it probably is (however I lose nothing if I am protected).

Sorry for the rant, however I just don't understand why I am met with backlash for simply asking opinions on items. I buy them to keep not to resell anyways. It's not like I'm asking you to buy it from me. I would just like opinions to see if it is worth keeping and I would have no problems returning the favor for items I am knowledgeable about.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

[QUOTE=felada;1618441]Because you contribute nothing to the board besides
Asking for help for your latest purchase

I ask for help to learn. How else am I supposed to learn? A book or even the internet can not teach what some people have learned that are
On this bird from years of seeing and touching items. The internet can only help so much. When the older generation is gone one day it is mine that will have to keep the hobby going, and unfortunately we aren't old enough to know somethings from the 50's as we simply weren't around. I ask questions to learn...not to brag or not contribute. There are experts in this chat that are far more knowledgeable so I sit here daily and read posts and ask for help once a week usually.

[khkco4bls]

And this is exactly why I hate net54 most times.. tearing up ur own posters..

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

And this is exactly why I hate net54 most times.. tearing up ur own posters..


+1

[bnorth]

+1

Now that is hilarious.:D

I will give you my honest grown up opinion. What you are doing is gambling and when you lose you cry foul. Seriously do you expect to pay 5-8 cents on the dollar for a real item. If it turned out real would you have sent the seller the difference?

I have done the same thing. When I instantly jump on a item at 5-8 cents on the dollar like the glove you purchased and it turns out to be fake. I put on my big boy pants and take the hit like an adult who takes responsibility for his own actions.:eek:

If this offends you I can post a picture of a participation trophy and tell you good job.:rolleyes:

[sbfinley]

Not that I have a dog on the fight, but to me there is a big difference in paying retail and getting a bad item and and paying pennies on the dollar on a long shot. If you've spent as much in the hobby recently as you state you have I'd hope you'd know close to retail what an authentic gamer's value is - and it ain't $250.

One of two things happened: either someone was fishing for a sucker and snagged one, will take the item back and your $20 and go fishing again. Or - you tried talking someone who didn't know better down from 10% of an items true value to 4% and ended up burning yourself. Either way it's your world and you can play in it however you please, but don't get upset if that gives some people a unsavory opinion of you because really nothing in this makes you look very good. Live and learn. Happy collecting.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Sorry for the rant, however I just don't understand why I am met with backlash for simply asking opinions on items. I buy them to keep not to resell anyways. It's not like I'm asking you to buy it from me. I would just like opinions to see if it is worth keeping and I would have no problems returning the favor for items I am knowledgeable about.

You are met with backlash because you represented yourself as asking for very little help...but in fact that is what most of your posts are about.

For many of us we have spent hours and hours and years and years learning about the hobby. For me it is more than 30. I didn't have Net54 to teach me about things..I did it the hard way and earned it. There are no safety nets in antique stores, flea markets or shows. You spend your time asking questions, touching and feeling. You invest the time to learn what the pricing should be before you make a purchase and then make the best deal possible. Sometimes you win and make a great find and other times it turns out to be not so great and you suck it up and move onto the next item.

I can tell you that you don't become an expert on photos or game used equipment because you made a few purchases on eBay. Get out to some local shows and do your own research. Talk to dealers and ask lots of questions. I find that memorabilia dealers are more chatty about their items because there aren't published price guides and grading services like on the card side of the hobby.

Just one mans opinions, good luck to you in your future collecting endeavors.

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Now that is hilarious.:D

I will give you my honest grown up opinion. What you are doing is gambling and when you lose you cry foul. Seriously do you expect to pay 5-8 cents on the dollar for a real item. If it turned out real would you have sent the seller the difference?

I have done the same thing. When I instantly jump on a item at 5-8 cents on the dollar like the glove you purchased and it turns out to be fake. I put on my big boy pants and take the hit like an adult who takes responsibility for his own actions.:eek:

If this offends you I can post a picture of a participation trophy and tell you good job.:rolleyes:


How is it gambling if I am covered? I simply do not get it? I guess my viewpoint is a lot different than peoples here. The world is changing now guys. I know someone else just said they spent 30 years in the hobby which I commend, but gone is the days when you HAVE to go out to find a item. The internet has connected millions and millions of people who can now share opinions with the click of a button. Whether people like it or not, it's changing. You can actually. It something and be protected by either your credit card company or eBay. Gone are the days of getting burned and having to take it. The participation trophy thing is funny because it explains the world today, however that is the generation below me. We didn't have those when I was growing up, and I didn't have much growing up either but was able to get where I am now by asking tons of questions (like I do here) learning and getting back up (in the hobby and real life). I have the internet at my disposal which many didn't have growing up, but I can honestly say that most the people here have a certain viewpoint because they HAD to do things a certain way growing up because there was no internet. People HAD to travel for information and go places to learn things. I joined this forum to learn which I have been doing. I have spent probably 1000 on books this past year ( from autograph reference books, to pin books to card books etc).
I'm genuinely trying (but in my own way as the times have changed), but for someone that says I need a participation trophy and need to put my big boy pants on is funny). I'm 31, but there are so many big babies in here that are so much older that are just sour grapes. If I had a nickel for every time I've read someone's posts who asked questions on here and was met by a snyde remark I'd have at least 100 bucks.lol seriously this is a hobby and we are all in it together whether you like it or not. My generation is what you are gonna need if you ever wanna cash out of these items you now hold. But people on here need to lose the "condescension approach". Just my 2 cents

[ibuysportsephemera]

How is it gambling if I am covered? I simply do not get it? I guess my viewpoint is a lot different than peoples here. The world is changing now guys. I know someone else just said they spent 30 years in the hobby which I commend, but gone is the days when you HAVE to go out to find a item. The internet has connected millions and millions of people who can now share opinions with the click of a button. Whether people like it or not, it's changing. You can actually. It something and be protected by either your credit card company or eBay. Gone are the days of getting burned and having to take it. The participation trophy thing is funny because it explains the world today, however that is the generation below me. We didn't have those when I was growing up, and I didn't have much growing up either but was able to get where I am now by asking tons of questions (like I do here) learning and getting back up (in the hobby and real life). I have the internet at my disposal which many didn't have growing up, but I can honestly say that most the people here have a certain viewpoint because they HAD to do things a certain way growing up because there was no internet. People HAD to travel for information and go places to learn things. I joined this forum to learn which I have been doing. I have spent probably 1000 on books this past year ( from autograph reference books, to pin books to card books etc).
I'm genuinely trying (but in my own way as the times have changed), but for someone that says I need a participation trophy and need to put my big boy pants on is funny). I'm 31, but there are so many big babies in here that are so much older that are just sour grapes. If I had a nickel for every time I've read someone's posts who asked questions on here and was met by a snyde remark I'd have at least 100 bucks.lol seriously this is a hobby and we are all in it together whether you like it or not. My generation is what you are gonna need if you ever wanna cash out of these items you now hold. But people on here need to lose the "condescension approach". Just my 2 cents

In my opinion Stephen, your post sums up the problem. You admit to not wanting to do the heavy lifting. You want to just sit in front of the computer and benefit from the hard work and knowledge of other Board members.

If you think that I am not your competition on eBay and other auction sites, you are kidding yourself. I still drag my 52 year old body out the door and visit antique stores, flea markets and shows. I find the real deals that are out there. I also learn something (or lots of things) every time I do this.

You think that you are protected on ebay or by using a credit card but that is just a financial thing. You have the dollars to make purchases but that doesn't make you a collector, it just makes you a consumer (IMO).

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

In my opinion Stephen, your post sums up the problem. You admit to not wanting to do the heavy lifting. You want to just sit in front of the computer and benefit from the hard work and knowledge of other Board members.

If you think that I am not your competition on eBay and other auction sites, you are kidding yourself. I still drag my 52 year old body out the door and visit antique stores, flea markets and shows. I find the real deals that are out there. I also learn something (or lots of things) every time I do this.

You think that you are protected on ebay or by using a credit card but that is just a financial thing. You have the dollars to make purchases but that doesn't make you a collector, it just makes you a consumer (IMO).

Jeff

I am not competing with anyone on here. Never have, never will. Everyone has their own collections and motives. I just look for the best deal for me. I don't buy a wide array of players or items... I stick to for the most part programs, stubs, and jackie cards. Once in a while I will see something pop up that I am not familiar with that looks like it would be a great addition and I take a chance (not being a consumer). I am sure you are a nice guy and won't make assumptions about you so would appreciate you calling me lazy. It's not laziness... it's practicality. People don't take horse and buggies anymore because a car or plane cuts the time down to milliseconds comparatively speaking. I'm not saying your way is right or wrong and not saying my way is either. I just do not have many friends who collect or share the same passion so it's a lot easier to buy online for me. Plus every time I have gone to an event (jersey last year) very few dealers are actually nice. They don't give a crap about me, they are just there to make a dollar. ( I did meet 3-4 really cool guys) but for the most part, they are older guys looking to buy really low and not budge off their items. (The cooler guys were actually willing to listen to some ideas I had as far as marketing their items and had an open mind). I don't claim to know much yet or think I do which is why I am here. I have a passion for collecting etc. You go out there still because it's how you were brought up. In "Your day" you had to go to these places to find items. "my day" has introduced different means to buying so I have never really gone out to find things (aside from my parents taking me to buy a box of cards from the card store as a kid). I dare you to only buy online and only search using online resources. You probably would not survive, much like I wouldn't if I used your method, because everyone's methods work for them. If we all did the same thing it simply wouldn't work. I'm the type of person that if I know a lot about something, I want to help people that ask. I don't feel like my time is worth money or like I want to keep an advantage over someone or make them put in the leg work if they don't need to. If you read through most posts here asking for help by anyone, that is simply what happens here. People want other people to put in the work that they have already put in which isn't feasible in this day of age. You can't make up 30 years of experience with a simple internet search.

I know a whole lot more today than I did last year when I joined, so this is definitely a great forum, however we can't all be set in our ways. I purchased book after book to learn, but there is no substitute for time. So of us younger guys need the "dad we never had" kinda guys here to help us a long the way. Otherwise you risk us losing interest, and you selling off your collections for pennies on the dollar because there is simply no longer a demand.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Stephen..if you can get to the Westchester show this weekend, I think that you will have a great time and understand better what I am trying to say. You might not buy a thing but I am sure that you will see things that you have never seen before and will appreciate the diverse offerings. If you can make it on Friday there is a good chance that I will be there and would look forward to meeting you and saying hello.

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Stephen..if you can get to the Westchester show this weekend, I think that you will have a great time and understand better what I am trying to say. You might not buy a thing but I am sure that you will see things that you have never seen before and will appreciate the diverse offerings. If you can make it on Friday there is a good chance that I will be there and would look forward to meeting you and saying hello.

Jeff

Jeff,

I ruptured my Achilles a month ago so can't drive anywhere as it was my right Achilles. I am out of commission for 4-6 months. Thank you for the offer though and I look forward to eventually meeting you.

[Fuddjcal]

Not that I have a dog on the fight, but to me there is a big difference in paying retail and getting a bad item and and paying pennies on the dollar on a long shot. If you've spent as much in the hobby recently as you state you have I'd hope you'd know close to retail what an authentic gamer's value is - and it ain't $250.

One of two things happened: either someone was fishing for a sucker and snagged one, will take the item back and your $20 and go fishing again. Or - you tried talking someone who didn't know better down from 10% of an items true value to 4% and ended up burning yourself. Either way it's your world and you can play in it however you please, but don't get upset if that gives some people a unsavory opinion of you because really nothing in this makes you look very good. Live and learn. Happy collecting.

EXACTLY...Personally, it just rubs me the wrong way. You have imbecile's making up the "GRANDPA" stories and the ever popular ESTATE sale... When you see either of these with your buying experience on SH** BAY, you should know it's FAKE PERIOD! RUN LIKE RABBIT WITH THORN IN PAW.

Unfortunately, you have this "something for nothing" mentality and it really isn't becoming or a very smart way to live your life, IMHO. BUT, it is your life and if you want to be a dopey buyer, go right ahead... I prefer to live the life of "If it's too good to be true, it is!!!!!!! Now I won't find a book with JFK's signature for 2 bucks, but I'm not going to get hammered by scammers either. I'll just be happy buying the best I can and moving on. If I make a mistake, I just suck it up. You like finding deals and 99 out of 100 this is what you're going to get...Mule kicked in the throat.

***THIS IS 1 of 2 reasons I have quit collecting and QUIT E-BAY. I'm sure you are a great guy and this isn't a personal attack, just my opinion. Still, if I ever come out of hiding to sell any of my stuff, Id like your ID too so I can block you as a buyer.

[Fuddjcal]

I am not competing with anyone on here. Never have, never will. Everyone has their own collections and motives. I just look for the best deal for me. I don't buy a wide array of players or items... I stick to for the most part programs, stubs, and jackie cards. Once in a while I will see something pop up that I am not familiar with that looks like it would be a great addition and I take a chance (not being a consumer). I am sure you are a nice guy and won't make assumptions about you so would appreciate you calling me lazy. It's not laziness... it's practicality. People don't take horse and buggies anymore because a car or plane cuts the time down to milliseconds comparatively speaking. I'm not saying your way is right or wrong and not saying my way is either. I just do not have many friends who collect or share the same passion so it's a lot easier to buy online for me. Plus every time I have gone to an event (jersey last year) very few dealers are actually nice. They don't give a crap about me, they are just there to make a dollar. ( I did meet 3-4 really cool guys) but for the most part, they are older guys looking to buy really low and not budge off their items. (The cooler guys were actually willing to listen to some ideas I had as far as marketing their items and had an open mind). I don't claim to know much yet or think I do which is why I am here. I have a passion for collecting etc. You go out there still because it's how you were brought up. In "Your day" you had to go to these places to find items. "my day" has introduced different means to buying so I have never really gone out to find things (aside from my parents taking me to buy a box of cards from the card store as a kid). I dare you to only buy online and only search using online resources. You probably would not survive, much like I wouldn't if I used your method, because everyone's methods work for them. If we all did the same thing it simply wouldn't work. I'm the type of person that if I know a lot about something, I want to help people that ask. I don't feel like my time is worth money or like I want to keep an advantage over someone or make them put in the leg work if they don't need to. If you read through most posts here asking for help by anyone, that is simply what happens here. People want other people to put in the work that they have already put in which isn't feasible in this day of age. You can't make up 30 years of experience with a simple internet search.

I know a whole lot more today than I did last year when I joined, so this is definitely a great forum, however we can't all be set in our ways. I purchased book after book to learn, but there is no substitute for time. So of us younger guys need the "dad we never had" kinda guys here to help us a long the way. Otherwise you risk us losing interest, and you selling off your collections for pennies on the dollar because there is simply no longer a demand.

Good Luck and enjoy your hobby any way you'd like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

EXACTLY...Personally, it just rubs me the wrong way. You have imbecile's making up the "GRANDPA" stories and the ever popular ESTATE sale... When you see either of these with your buying experience on SH** BAY, you should know it's FAKE PERIOD! RUN LIKE RABBIT WITH THORN IN PAW.

Unfortunately, you have this "something for nothing" mentality and it really isn't becoming or a very smart way to live your life, IMHO. BUT, it is your life and if you want to be a dopey buyer, go right ahead... I prefer to live the life of "If it's too good to be true, it is!!!!!!! Now I won't find a book with JFK's signature for 2 bucks, but I'm not going to get hammered by scammers either. I'll just be happy buying the best I can and moving on. If I make a mistake, I just suck it up. You like finding deals and 99 out of 100 this is what you're going to get...Mule kicked in the throat.

***THIS IS 1 of 2 reasons I have quit collecting and QUIT E-BAY. I'm sure you are a great guy and this isn't a personal attack, just my opinion. Still, if I ever come out of hiding to sell any of my stuff, Id like your ID too so I can block you as a buyer.


Yea this didn't sound personal at all Chuck.

"Unfortunately, you have this "something for nothing" mentality and it really isn't becoming or a very smart way to live your life"...

according to who?

"it is your life and if you want to be a dopey buyer, go right ahead"...

Not personal at all

"I'm sure you are a great guy and this isn't a personal attack, just my opinion."...

That is a pretty oxymoron sentence.

I won't defend myself to you. Just tell me your buyer ID and I won't bid on your junk trust me.

[perezfan]

Really hate seeing this type of caustic banter on net54. One of the best things about this site is the ability to help and educate others. That way, we keep the hobby thriving/strengthen its future/retain a strong collector base. It seems like just yesterday that I was on the "asking" end rather than the "helping" end. Many of us are now dying off, or are selling-off due to retirement, layoffs and downsizing. So I think its admirable (and good for the hobby) to help out the newer/younger collectors...

True, the OP could be doing more of the legwork and necessary research prior to posting. That goes without saying... especially when trying to "steal" something purportedly game-used like this. But this is a difficult area for any collector (regardless of his/her experience). Game-used Gloves from the '50s did not have the same characteristics as those made today. They were not as personalized, no names were embroidered into the leather, etc. So I felt this was a valid post.

That said... I would be very hesitant to buy something like this without some specific provenance, a family letter or a photo-match. There are just too many "bad eggs" out there, and high-end gloves were not exclusive to professional ballplayers.

Hope this helps, and best of luck!

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Really hate seeing this type of caustic banter on net54. One of the best things about this site is the ability to help and educate others. That way, we keep the hobby thriving/strengthen its future/retain a strong collector base. It seems like just yesterday that I was on the "asking" end rather than the "helping" end. Many of us are now dying off, or are selling-off due to retirement, layoffs and downsizing. So I think its admirable (and good for the hobby) to help out the newer/younger collectors...

True, the OP could be doing more of the legwork and necessary research prior to posting. That goes without saying... especially when trying to "steal" something purportedly game-used like this. But this is a difficult area for any collector (regardless of his/her experience). Game-used Gloves from the '50s did not have the same characteristics as those made today. They were not as personalized, no names were embroidered into the leather, etc. So I felt this was a valid post.

That said... I would be very hesitant to buy something like this without some specific provenance, a family letter or a photo-match. There are just too many "bad eggs" out there, and high-end gloves were not exclusive to professional ballplayers.

Hope this helps, and best of luck!


Very well said Mark. +1

[bnorth]

Really hate seeing this type of caustic banter on net54. One of the best things about this site is the ability to help and educate others. That way, we keep the hobby thriving/strengthen its future/retain a strong collector base. It seems like just yesterday that I was on the "asking" end rather than the "helping" end. Many of us are now dying off, or are selling-off due to retirement, layoffs and downsizing. So I think its admirable (and good for the hobby) to help out the newer/younger collectors...

True, the OP could be doing more of the legwork and necessary research prior to posting. That goes without saying... especially when trying to "steal" something purportedly game-used like this. But this is a difficult area for any collector (regardless of his/her experience). Game-used Gloves from the '50s did not have the same characteristics as those made today. They were not as personalized, no names were embroidered into the leather, etc. So I felt this was a valid post.

That said... I would be very hesitant to buy something like this without some specific provenance, a family letter or a photo-match. There are just too many "bad eggs" out there, and high-end gloves were not exclusive to professional ballplayers.

Hope this helps, and best of luck!

I don't see a single post on here as being anything other that us actually trying to help the OP. I know he and you must see it differently and that is too bad.

I know I am trying to explain that at some point in time he needs to grow up and take responsibility for his actions. He is still in teenager mode and saying "but things are different now, It's not my fault". The only difference is it now takes several more years for young men to grow up mentally and take responsibility for their actions. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Buying is buying it does not matter if it is the internet, estate sale, garage sale, or a flee market. They all have good and bad sellers.

We all went through the "but things are different now, It's not my fault" stage. The problem is at my age that was in your teenage to early 20's. Now it is lasting into peoples 30's. Ever hear the phrase "never trust anyone under 30"? When I was a kid it was 25, then it changed to 30, and now when it is said I hear people add 40 is the new 30. Again this is about responsibility not intelligence.

I owned a construction company from 1993 till a few months ago when I turned in my tax licences. Guys in their 20's are who do most of the work. So I have watched this progression of taking longer to grow up and take responsibility first hand in the work force. It sucks now trying to find someone to actually do work and put down their damn phone.

This is just my honest opinion.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I don't see a single post on here as being anything other that us actually trying to help the OP. I know he and you must see it differently and that is too bad.

I know I am trying to explain that at some point in time he needs to grow up and take responsibility for his actions. He is still in teenager mode and saying "but things are different now, It's not my fault". The only difference is it now takes several more years for young men to grow up mentally and take responsibility for their actions. It has nothing to do with intelligence.

Buying is buying it does not matter if it is the internet, estate sale, garage sale, or a flee market. They all have good and bad sellers.

We all went through the "but things are different now, It's not my fault" stage. The problem is at my age that was in your teenage to early 20's. Now it is lasting into peoples 30's. Ever hear the phrase "never trust anyone under 30"? When I was a kid it was 25, then it changed to 30, and now when it is said I hear people add 40 is the new 30. Again this is about responsibility not intelligence.

I owned a construction company from 1993 till a few months ago when I turned in my tax licences. Guys in their 20's are who do most of the work. So I have watched this progression of taking longer to grow up and take responsibility first hand in the work force. It sucks now trying to find someone to actually do work and put down their damn phone.

This is just my honest opinion.

I respect your opinion, but by the way you are speaking you can tell you are not with the times. "put down their damn phones"? That is the world we live in today whether you or anyone else likes it. You either change with it or get left behind. I have responsibility but am not dumb. To not take a chance on something you know nothing about when you are covered and can ask for opinions is foolish in my opinion. I have nothing to lose but learning along the way and by doing so. Just because you have been burned before, does not mean you need to be sour grapes about my approach. I figured out a way to be safe with my chances. What is wrong with that? This has nothing to do with acting like a teenager. It comes down with a simple method I use that members on here frown upon. I have never ONCE on here ever bashed someone or answered a post without advice when I answered aside from saying nice item etc. The fact that people answer posts like mine with long winded NON answers is baffling. With the effort you put into this you could actually help educate us younger guys.

[bnorth]

I respect your opinion, but by the way you are speaking you can tell you are not with the times. "put down their damn phones"? That is the world we live in today whether you or anyone else likes it. You either change with it or get left behind. I have responsibility but am not dumb. To not take a chance on something you know nothing about when you are covered and can ask for opinions is foolish in my opinion. I have nothing to lose but learning along the way and by doing so. Just because you have been burned before, does not mean you need to be sour grapes about my approach. I figured out a way to be safe with my chances. What is wrong with that? This has nothing to do with acting like a teenager. It comes down with a simple method I use that members on here frown upon. I have never ONCE on here ever bashed someone or answered a post without advice when I answered aside from saying nice item etc. The fact that people answer posts like mine with long winded NON answers is baffling. With the effort you put into this you could actually help educate us younger guys.

It's all good, trust me you will understand my post later in life. Happy collecting and I am done here.

[Republicaninmass]

Does "caveat Emptor" still apply?


It seems your philosophy is to try to get a deal from a seller, then if it doesn't pan out, you can just ask for a refund.n't "Back in the day" a man's word meant something, a commitment was a commitment, unless an item was grossly misrepresented. If someone does know about an item, and you agree to buy it, even if you are hiding behind your computer and ebay's policy, you own it. If you knew forewell the seller had no idea, coming on here to ask afterwards is cowardice.

You because you can return anything, doesnt make it right. I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be at some point.

[steve B]

Jeff,

I ruptured my Achilles a month ago so can't drive anywhere as it was my right Achilles. I am out of commission for 4-6 months. Thank you for the offer though and I look forward to eventually meeting you.

Talk about needing to get with the times! UBER! ........ :D


Steve B

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Does "caveat Emptor" still apply?


It seems your philosophy is to try to get a deal from a seller, then if it doesn't pan out, you can just ask for a refund.n't "Back in the day" a man's word meant something, a commitment was a commitment, unless an item was grossly misrepresented. If someone does know about an item, and you agree to buy it, even if you are hiding behind your computer and ebay's policy, you own it. If you knew forewell the seller had no idea, coming on here to ask afterwards is cowardice.

You because you can return anything, doesnt make it right. I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be at some point.


I'm not hiding behind any screen. I use my approach to protect myself when buying from "scammers". I have never ONCE in my life, paid for something that was authentic and gone back on my word whether i got a good deal or got taken advantage of. I have actually given more that something was worth in person on a many occasions when I had a store and would buy collections. People would come in not knowing what they had, and I simply did right how I was raised to. I hate taking advantage of people, never have, never will. I saw the hodges gloves going for 1700 on google. He wanted 750. Knowing nothing about it I offered 250 to take a shot. I figured IF I did get burned it wasn't for 750. I then asked for the refund minus a donation which I thought was nice on my part and he obliged. Would I have been willing to lose the 250? Yes. But why lose it if I didn't have to?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Talk about needing to get with the times! UBER! ........ :D


Steve B

Good one :D

[Republicaninmass]

I figured IF I did get burned it wasn't for 750

How could you have with ebay's return policy?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I figured IF I did get burned it wasn't for 750

How could you have with ebay's return policy?

I'm done here. This is brutal. It's a hobby. Bunch of grown man babies in this thread.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm done here. This is brutal. It's a hobby. Bunch of grown man babies in this thread.

Stove..meet the kettle


I'm just going to buy "undergraded" PSA cards on ebay, and if they don't bump, I'll return them since they were properly graded. While I'm at it, let me try the "t206 Wagners" for a buck and post them here.


Doesn't sound too grown up to me.

I'm all for asking questions, and learning from the older generation, but shame on me I guess I don't use as a buying gauge on ebay..once I've already bought something questionable, at a more than reasonable price

[steve B]

Just realized I went a bit long on this one. Apologies in advance but I think it's worth a read.

On a more serious note, I see a lot of good points on both sides.

I've been in the hobby for ........... about 40 years, maybe longer depending on when I figure the start to have been. Other hobbies longer, not quite 50 years.

Over that time I've seen a LOT of changes, both in available information and in how hobbies are participated in. Some of the biggest have been in information and available experiences. When I started there were very few books of any kind, the only ones I knew of for cards were the Sports Collectors Bible - which listed a massive number of baseball sets but "sports" was a stretch since it only covered baseball. Most had no checklists, and there were no pictures! The other was the then new 78 Sport Americana checklist book. (That's what I used it for, so I'm sticking with it) Which had far fewer sets, but had a picture of one card from each set. Not in color, but a picture.
Oh yeah, there was a short list in the book of lists of the 10 most expensive/rarest cards. That's where I learned about George C Millers and why I bought the first few I got. There was really nothing at all on anything that wasn't a card. So all I knew I got from the local dealer who was knowledgeable, and the occasional show. At least until I found SCD which had articles.

One of the experiences that younger collectors just can't get anymore is
routinely seeing/handling a lot of old cards without there being some plastic involved. Every dealer had stacks of vintage cards if they had any at all. And they were just set out on the table in stacks. There's really no better way to get a literal feel for what a real card is compared to one that's not "right"
The same thing would go for any other ephemera. At the time there were few fakes, and when you found stuff like photos there would be loads of them. Bats, uniforms etc not as much, but there weren't many replica uniforms. Bats still had the whole Store bat/Pro bat/game used thing, but unless it was a big name there wasn't much financial incentive for fakery. My Dwight Evans Game bat which is cracked was a whole $9 !

The internet has really opened up a lot of information, and it's far easier to learn what a particular item should look like. And that's good, since the money has gotten big enough to attract what are probably some of what I'd call "casual fakers" the people that make their best misguided guess, add a to them plausible story and try to sell stuff. Before I learned a few things I was partway there. the first 10 speed I had had a bunch of races listed on the stickers. I thought those were all the races it had been in until the bike shop guy pointed out that if that was true it would be individual stickers and not one big one. And besides they didn't get little stickers for racing. It was a bit of a letdown, but once I heard it I realized I'd been wrong.

None of us learned stuff entirely on our own, someone somewhere along the line either told us or pointed us in the direction of the information.

So even if their methods annoy, lets be a bit more open with the new guys eh?


Now Stephen, here's the bit you might not like as much.

Most of us old guys are from what I call the "thunderdome school of business" whose motto is as you might or might not have been able to guess is "bust a deal face the wheel"
We totally don't get the whole thing of buying something then returning it. Sure, that might be ok with say LL Bean and Amazon who sort of encourage it. (And Ebay to some extent) That's what I really dislike about internet shopping. I can't actually hold the item, and can't really ask any detailed questions. So if the fabric on that new jacket seems flimsy or the controls on the new electronic device don't make sense, I'm pretty unhappy. But even then I almost never return anything. I may not buy from a place again, and I may be grouchy about stuff like my &((&^ tablet that won't stay connected to Wi-Fi even when it's 3ft from the router. But I don't return them.
I've bought a few collectibles that weren't quite what I thought they were. And I kept them, because the mistake was pretty much all mine. (Since starting Ebay in I think 98 I've returned one card. Trimmed, but not disclosed, and with a scan that was really misleading. And exactly no contact from the seller until I filed a formal complaint. ) Generally I try to learn stuff ahead of time, go with my instincts if I don't have time or can't find the right info, and live with the consequences. That being said, as a seller I had extremely liberal refund/return policies which I never put into writing because they were a bit too open. Most items that people had a legitimate problem with I refunded without taking a return. Maybe three items over 10 years.
I can't imagine trying to jump into fairly expensive stuff without developing a solid baseline of knowledge. And I really can't imagine using Ebays policies to essentially force a seller to either become my teacher for free or provide my study materials also for free. (I do however give you credit for donating some money towards the sellers little league as it sounds like he was selling to raise money for them. )


Sometimes a little harshness can make you better. One of my other collections is a group of stamps from the 1870's. Lots of errors many of them rare but sort of inexpensive. I joined a national club to get access to a series of articles about the mistakes, and had a few nice emails with the author discussing technical details. Then I found a stamp that was a fairly big deal - at least to the 5-6 people that might actually care- and sent him a scan and brief description of what I thought it was and asking for an opinion from a more experienced set of eyes. His response? A very terse "go do your own research" Kind of a bummer at the time. After a week of feeling bad I wrote the article about it- which sort of contradicted one of his. I realized that I didn't need a more experienced set of eyes, what I needed was confidence in my own! When I eventually talked to the editor of that section he asked if he could show the scans to that guy. So I told him the story. And he laughed :confused: Turned out that when the guy who told me off was getting ready to write his first article the guy he'd been learning from did essentially the same thing to him. The editors were amazing, and in a very short time made my passable article into a pretty good one finally showing a photo of a variety that had never been shown as a photo and had last been described 80 years earlier.

Steve B

[Fuddjcal]

Oh goodie, questions and answers!

"Unfortunately, you have this "something for nothing" mentality and it really isn't becoming or a very smart way to live your life"...

according to who? GARP and other highly respected individuals

"it is your life and if you want to be a dopey buyer, go right ahead"...

Not personal at all Not particularly

"I'm sure you are a great guy and this isn't a personal attack, just my opinion."...

That is a pretty oxymoron sentence. I am an oxy moron

I won't defend myself to you. Just tell me your buyer ID and I won't bid on your junk trust me. Maybe you missed the part where I quit collecting and wouldn't use E-bay to wipe my a***. Too many douche bags

[thecatspajamas]

I think this summarizes my main issue with your approach.

I have responsibility but am not dumb. To not take a chance on something you know nothing about when you are covered and can ask for opinions is foolish in my opinion. I have nothing to lose but learning along the way and by doing so. Just because you have been burned before, does not mean you need to be sour grapes about my approach. I figured out a way to be safe with my chances. What is wrong with that? This has nothing to do with acting like a teenager. It comes down with a simple method I use that members on here frown upon.

Let me be very clear that when I say "ignorant" for the rest of this post, I am not referring to lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of knowledge of the facts.

When you buy something out of ignorance, become a little more educated through research after the purchase, and return the item because it is not what you originally thought it might be: This is not a no-harm transaction. You may have gained a little knowledge and experience as a result, but that experience was 100% at the expense of the seller. That's not cool in my book.

You make a point that if someone isn't selling fraudulent items, they don't have to worry, because you don't return something if it's authentic. But just because something turns out to be other than what you in your ignorance assumed it to be (as in the case of the Jackie Robinson photos you recently posted about) does not make the seller a crook or a purveyor of fraudulent items.

There have been plenty of times when I have dealt with ignorant buyers: ones who had some idea of what they were looking for, but who simply did not have all their facts straight about what I was selling and somehow convinced themselves that they were getting something different. I am thankful when these ignorant buyers take the time to ask questions beforehand, and patiently explain to them why what I have is not what they are looking for, knowing that it will profit me none. Too often though, the buyers do not ask questions until after they have snatched up their "treasure" from what they take to be a seller who doesn't know his wares (after all, I've only been on eBay for 20 years!). I ship the item off, and then the questions start. "Why doesn't it have this feature? How do you know that about it? Where did you get this? Does it have a COA? How do I know it's real if it doesn't have a COA? Why didn't it come with the COA that you neither mentioned nor pictured? How can I be sure it's really what you never said it was but what I inferred you might be implying from your description that was carefully worded to not call it what I want it to be?" And I start grinding my teeth, because I know that I'm about to pay for this schlub's education by way of shipping costs, return shipping costs, fees and commissions that I will never recover from him, no matter how thoroughly I explain and point out his mistaken assumptions and that the item is exactly what I portrayed it to be. That they were wrong is not important in their eyes. What is important is that eBay will allow them to return it regardless.

I don't mind educating ignorant collectors, but resent when I am forced to pay to do so.

Do not make others pay for your education. Asking questions is free. Shipping and eBay fees are not. You have stated your approach of gambling on purchases knowing that eBay will back you up if it's not real, but seem to forget that the "back-up" you mention is always at the expense of the seller. Ebay does not spread any safety net for you that they did not first extract from the seller's pocket. And for every one or two scam artists that rightly have to eat the cost of shipping their forgery to you and having it returned, I can almost guarantee that you're going to stick it to an honest seller whose only mistake was in dealing with an ignorant collector who did not educate himself about what he was actually buying before pulling the trigger. Please, for the sake of all upstanding dealers in the room, do your research BEFORE clicking on Buy It Now.

[RedsFan1941]

Outstanding post ^^^^^

[ibuysportsephemera]

I think this summarizes my main issue with your approach.



Let me be very clear that when I say "ignorant" for the rest of this post, I am not referring to lack of intelligence, but rather a lack of knowledge of the facts.

When you buy something out of ignorance, become a little more educated through research after the purchase, and return the item because it is not what you originally thought it might be: This is not a no-harm transaction. You may have gained a little knowledge and experience as a result, but that experience was 100% at the expense of the seller. That's not cool in my book.

You make a point that if someone isn't selling fraudulent items, they don't have to worry, because you don't return something if it's authentic. But just because something turns out to be other than what you in your ignorance assumed it to be (as in the case of the Jackie Robinson photos you recently posted about) does not make the seller a crook or a purveyor of fraudulent items.

There have been plenty of times when I have dealt with ignorant buyers: ones who had some idea of what they were looking for, but who simply did not have all their facts straight about what I was selling and somehow convinced themselves that they were getting something different. I am thankful when these ignorant buyers take the time to ask questions beforehand, and patiently explain to them why what I have is not what they are looking for, knowing that it will profit me none. Too often though, the buyers do not ask questions until after they have snatched up their "treasure" from what they take to be a seller who doesn't know his wares (after all, I've only been on eBay for 20 years!). I ship the item off, and then the questions start. "Why doesn't it have this feature? How do you know that about it? Where did you get this? Does it have a COA? How do I know it's real if it doesn't have a COA? Why didn't it come with the COA that you neither mentioned nor pictured? How can I be sure it's really what you never said it was but what I inferred you might be implying from your description that was carefully worded to not call it what I want it to be?" And I start grinding my teeth, because I know that I'm about to pay for this schlub's education by way of shipping costs, return shipping costs, fees and commissions that I will never recover from him, no matter how thoroughly I explain and point out his mistaken assumptions and that the item is exactly what I portrayed it to be. That they were wrong is not important in their eyes. What is important is that eBay will allow them to return it regardless.

I don't mind educating ignorant collectors, but resent when I am forced to pay to do so.

Do not make others pay for your education. Asking questions is free. Shipping and eBay fees are not. You have stated your approach of gambling on purchases knowing that eBay will back you up if it's not real, but seem to forget that the "back-up" you mention is always at the expense of the seller. Ebay does not spread any safety net for you that they did not first extract from the seller's pocket. And for every one or two scam artists that rightly have to eat the cost of shipping their forgery to you and having it returned, I can almost guarantee that you're going to stick it to an honest seller whose only mistake was in dealing with an ignorant collector who did not educate himself about what he was actually buying before pulling the trigger. Please, for the sake of all upstanding dealers in the room, do your research BEFORE clicking on Buy It Now.

Really well said Lance! As a long time eBay seller, I appreciate your comments. Thanks.

Jeff

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Really well said Lance! As a long time eBay seller, I appreciate your comments. Thanks.

Jeff


Please note. I kept the Robinson photos. I never make anyone eat shipping either. I also make sure to cancel the transaction so no one loses fees. No one gets hurt. Great post though. Still not sure why people take this "hobby" so serious. People have been responding to this thread like I murdered someone. I won't ask for help anymore. Just know that you guys lost a passionate collector who eventually would have been a great contributor. I've been on here for a while now and you guys seem to have a habit of pushing newbies away. Great job. You guys honestly took all the fun out of this if I'm being honest. I have constantly felt like I had something to prove on here to everyone minus a few good people. I felt like I had to carefully word everything as to not seem this way or that way and get lectured. Good luck. To those of you who I have dealt with, thanks and always feel free to email me with any Jackie items and I'll do the same for you when I come across things you could use.

[bnorth]

Please note. I kept the Robinson photos. I never make anyone eat shipping either. I also make sure to cancel the transaction so no one loses fees. No one gets hurt. Great post though. Still not sure why people take this "hobby" so serious. People have been responding to this thread like I murdered someone. I won't ask for help anymore. Just know that you guys lost a passionate collector who eventually would have been a great contributor. I've been on here for a while now and you guys seem to have a habit of pushing newbies away. Great job. You guys honestly took all the fun out of this if I'm being honest. I have constantly felt like I had something to prove on here to everyone minus a few good people. I felt like I had to carefully word everything as to not seem this way or that way and get lectured. Good luck. To those of you who I have dealt with, thanks and always feel free to email me with any Jackie items and I'll do the same for you when I come across things you could use.

How can you seriously not get it that people are trying to help you.

[thecatspajamas]

Please note. I kept the Robinson photos. I never make anyone eat shipping either. I also make sure to cancel the transaction so no one loses fees. No one gets hurt. Great post though. Still not sure why people take this "hobby" so serious. People have been responding to this thread like I murdered someone. I won't ask for help anymore. Just know that you guys lost a passionate collector who eventually would have been a great contributor. I've been on here for a while now and you guys seem to have a habit of pushing newbies away. Great job. You guys honestly took all the fun out of this if I'm being honest. I have constantly felt like I had something to prove on here to everyone minus a few good people. I felt like I had to carefully word everything as to not seem this way or that way and get lectured. Good luck. To those of you who I have dealt with, thanks and always feel free to email me with any Jackie items and I'll do the same for you when I come across things you could use.

But your first response after hearing that they were not what you thought they were was still

Thanks! I think I am going to return these then.

I am glad that you did ultimately decide to keep the Robinson photos, but that knee-jerk reaction is what really bugs me. That post in particular I tried to focus as much as possible on identifying what you had in my response, not on all the ways that what you got was not what you thought it was.

As I said before, I don't mind educating in areas where I have knowledge to share, and I know many other board members feel the same. Even if ALL of your posts are questions, I personally have no problem with that. A big part of the board is education of and by like-minded collectors.

It's the jump first and then ask questions, followed by a flippant attitude toward returns that irks me personally. The fact that eBay no longer expects buyers to take any responsibility for their purchases does not make that attitude right, and it will never sit well with many of us, regardless of whether eBay enforces any sort of reasonable return policy or not.

[khkco4bls]

how can you seriously not get it that people are trying to help you.

no ur not period.....

[bnorth]

no ur not period.....

Sorry you see it that way.

[Republicaninmass]

If you think education is expensive and takes a long time, try ignorance.

[Bpm0014]

EYECOLLECT VINTAGE:

I myself am not very old. I've been on this site for a couple of years. Like any "rookie", just sit back and observe. Have a small mouth and big ears. Don't ruffle the feathers. Put in your dues. Ask as many questions as you like; you'd be surprised....as nearly 100% of the people on this site are more than willing to share info. However, making numerous rash purchases and then asking questions after the fact is the entirely wrong way to go about it here. You'll get a pass (maybe 2), but it's only going to irritate people (since many people on here sell via Ebay themselves). Simply put: Put on your big boy pants, do your homework, ask a million questions before you buy anything, stop wasting the seller's time, make an informed purchase.