T210 Population Question

[BleedinBlue]

I'm hoping some of the T210 experts can weigh in on this.

While reading the PSA Rarities article I was surprised that the stated known population on the T210 Joe Jackson card is fewer than 10 copies.

Is this right? Is this because of the series this card is in? Or is this typical of all T210 series. What is the estimated population of cards in each of the various series? I have 5-6 commons from this set and have never known these to be overly scarce. But perhaps soecific played are harder to find?

[wnp22]

Others with much more knowledge than me will chip in and give better answers, but I can tell you in the past few months of looking, I've seen maybe 3 cards total of Memphis players from Series 8.

[trdcrdkid]

I believe that Series 8 is tougher than the earlier ones, which is reflected in the market prices for commons. I'm not sure whether any of the teams within that series are tougher than others, but for what it's worth, of the four Series 8 cards I have, none are from New Orleans. (One is Nashville, three are Montgomery.)

[bnorth]

I have been looking for low end cards for the Ft Worth players for a couple years and still don't have the full team. Wouldn't call T210's rare but they are not plentiful like T206's or 1990 Donruss. A shameful plug, if anybody has some I have several other T210's(or other cards) to trade for them.

[RCMcKenzie]

I collect series 3 Houston-Galveston cards and some series 8, especially New Orleans...Here are the SGC pops on a few...
Joe Jackson--8
Hess, New Orleans--11
Crable, Galveston--8
Northen, Houston--7

[Jason]

Great answers so far. I agree Series 8 cards seem to be super scarce at the moment esp. Memphis and what I consider the toughest team in the set, Chattanooga. I would think there are a few older collectors that have some stashed away in the raw form. The sheer amount of MLB'ers in that Series dwarfs all others so thats a draw as well.

Im not sure if that Northen pop is correct as I have had 4 different graded ones in the last year unless I just got lucky on that one. I kept a Orange and Red for my set. Im looking forward to more posts and info on this thread!

[Jason]

Total guess/each player total pop

Series
1 30
2 40-50
3 20 Red 5-8 Orange
4 10
5 30
6 10-15
7 10-15
8 2-10

Of course in each Series there are cards that are less abundant for one reason or another.

[RCMcKenzie]

Jason, I was just using the SGC pops as a relative guide. I agree that there are many T210 that are ungraded. To the OP's question, Joe Jackson is not a particularly rare T210... Here are 3 different series of Jimmy Hart with the SGC pops
T210-8--4
T211----4
T213-1--2

[trdcrdkid]

I agree that there are many T210 that are ungraded.

I have 64 T210s, all ungraded.

[RCMcKenzie]

I have 64 T210s, all ungraded.

David, Nice! that's a lot of T210's. Did you double-check to see if any of them are Joe Jackson? ha-ha. I have about 25 and I guess about 5 or 6 are ungraded. The longer ago I got them, the more likely they are ungraded. It's getting more and more unlikely to find ungraded cards for sale. Here are a couple more New Orleans t210-8's

[IMAXMAX]

really enjoying this thread,,,
must admit that I'm a bit shocked by the low pop estimates suggested,,,,(though I've had my own difficulties with this set, assembling a Jacksonville team)
Hyames is supposedly one of the toughest cards of the set---any idea of a pop number for him?

[Vintagecatcher]

Hoping to get a T210-6 Thoss to complete my run of T210 catchers wearing chest protectors.

Patrick

[NiceDocter]

Them thar chest protectors looks more like a dadblamed apron to me sonny.

[trdcrdkid]

David, Nice! that's a lot of T210's. Did you double-check to see if any of them are Joe Jackson? ha-ha.

Ha! Yeah, no luck there. But I do have Ivy Wingo, who had a good career in the majors and is in demand by Black Sox collectors as a member of the 1919 Reds. In fact, I used to have two of them, a nice one and a beater, and I sold the nice one to a board member who wanted it a lot more than I did.

I have about 25 and I guess about 5 or 6 are ungraded. The longer ago I got them, the more likely they are ungraded. It's getting more and more unlikely to find ungraded cards for sale.

Almost all of mine were bought 15-25 years ago, first from ads in SCD and then on eBay. I have gotten a few on the BST here in the past couple of years, including one that I traded for another of my doubles that a board member needed.

[bocca001]

I've also been trying to put together the T210-3 Houston and Galveston team sets. Here's a quick picture of the Houston cards. Most of these came from two sets of purchases (several cards for sale at once), with someone else clearly breaking a set. I've been looking for 3 or 4 yeats and it seems rare for a random single from these two teams to come up.

Jason also tells me that the T210-3 cards that can come with an orange boarder can be tougher to obtain (more bidding competition) because there are several people trying to have parallel red and orange subsets.

I only need a T210-3 Burch to complete the Houston team.

[abroome]

All of my series 3 are raw except for this guy...

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161203/a66742fbc87986fb0b6988519429f1fa.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[abroome]

This is my lone series 8 Chattanooga player.
Oh what I would trade for a Demaree series 8.....

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161203/260683246ab11a3369bade266ae2777b.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

[bnorth]

Total guess/each player total pop

Series
1 30
2 40-50
3 20 Red 5-8 Orange
4 10
5 30
6 10-15
7 10-15
8 2-10

Of course in each Series there are cards that are less abundant for one reason or another.

I would have guessed(wrongly) way more than those #'s. Thanks for the info Jason as you know way more than I do about these great little cards.

Thanks for the pics of all the beautiful cards everyone.:)

I have 44 T210's at this time. I like to touch my cards and am responsible for around 15 being cracked out of their plastic prison.

[DixieBaseball]

We have discussed this a few times in the past (Search Series 8 T210 / T211 and it should be buried on here somewhere) I have collected T210 and T211 for over 15 years. Specifically Series 8 Tennessee (Chattanooga, Memphis, Nashville) have been a part of my passion among other Southern teams. I believe scarcity is there in pockets and we all can see it differently from outside factors like the time frame we actually collect them, and what specifically comes available to market. Also, if you buy some large groups it can make some cards appear easier than others. Based on my collecting experience of acquiring the Series 8 near set one by one over a decade while also assembling the T211 set 1 by 1 (I did buy some very small groups of cards), I contend that the T210 Series 8 Cards that you can't find a parallel to in the T211 set are the toughest due to them being released at a later date as indicated by the T211 "Series 1 of 75". I have noticed a recurring trend with the 39 cards in Series 8 which are not available in the T211 set. They simply don't come up as often as the other 75 cards do. It's easy to figure out what are the toughest 39 cards as well. Simply look at the T211 set, and see which Series 8 cards are not in it. Chattanooga is unquestionably the toughest team to assemble as well as large part of Memphis & Birmingham, but some of the other Southern Teams have a few players not in Series 1 T211, so they are equally as tough as the Chattanooga/Memphis/Birmingham players. There is a consensus among collectors of T211 there was going to be a 2nd series since the back of the card indicates "Series 1 of 75" on it. Joe Jackson isn't in T211, thus making his card much more difficult. (It's part of that 39 card group) Not sure how it all went down, and perhaps there were going to be even more T210-8 cards. Instead of 114, perhaps 150. Either way, 2 things I know from collecting these... 39 of the 114 are extremely rare. the remaining 75 are very scarce in my opinion which makes them reasonably tough as well, but good luck trying to assemble the whole Chatt, Memphis, B'Ham team. It took me 10-12 years, best I recall. I gave up the ghost on the T211 set after getting into the 60's as well, falling just short of the set. So much fun to collect, and I kept a few of my favorites... Will post a few - Hope this long winded posts makes sense. Apologies up front for the ramble. - Pic added for Andy - Happy Holidays everyone!

[DixieBaseball]

I wanted to comment on Joe Jackson. I think we all get lulled into thinking this card is not rare by how often it comes up for sale and flashed and marketed in front of our eyes constantly. (quarterly in some auction). I would ask anyone to tell me their definition of Rare. 10 or less? 15 or less? 20 or less? Joe is in that mix somewhere... Obviously, his card has been looked for the most out of the T210's, so most are unearthed and probably a very few still left buried in a group of T210's somewhere, meaning most/majority are accounted for... So how many Joe's are there on Population reports of PSA/SGC?

Here's a few pics of some of my favorite Memphis players for Nick...

[tbob]

For several years I have attempted to collect the entire T210 set (minus Joe Jax and Stengel) and I believe I will never finish, but it's been both interesting and fun to collect the red bordered cards. There are series which are tough (obviously) and then scarcities among the cards in the tough series. Series 2 was a snap, there are a couple of cards in Series 1 which NEVER pop up for sale and 3 is not too bad except if, like me, you go after the orange border cards which are only in Series 3. Series 5 is doable but then comes the problem. About half of the Series 8 cards are obtainable but the other half have proven to be very difficult, like the Memphis cards. 6 and 7 are tough but I have been fighting through those scarcities. Series 4 may be the least known tough series. There are some cards in that series which seemingly never are offered for sale.
2016 was a good year for me although I bought arguably the toughest card in Series 1, one which I had never seen offered before, Al Lee of Macon. There is another Lee in Series 1, Jack Lee of Jacksonville. The seller accidentally sent me the common fair condition Jack Lee and sent the tough vgex Al Lee to the guy who won the Jack Lee, by mistake. The guy who got my card refused to return it to the seller (hopefully you are reading this so you know I know who you are), so I am still searching for Al Lee if anyone out there has one. He told the seller he immediately sent it to TPG for slabbing so it is obvious he knew he had been the beneficiary of the mistake. 99% of collectors on this Board would have done the "right thing" but I guess he is a "1%er."
Sorry for the rant.....
tbob

[seablaster]

There's definitely some solid information in this thread. In regard to the population of particular cards and difficulties of the different series, I think we can only speculate.

Having collected this set for a few years myself, I contend that the most difficult T210 card is the one you're currently searching for.

[mybuddyinc]

Finishing Series 1 is tougher than it is deemed. I found, overall, Jacksonville was a tad tougher than other teams. But, as TBob says, there are some real toughies out there. However, never really knew Lee, Macon was one (added him to my five top toughs). BTW, that's brutally sad "Lee" situation, stinks....

My Tough Ones (and maybe reasons why):

Viola -- Same player as misspelled T206 Violat. Maybe the T206 connection, or him being one of the earliest Latin players. I "think" :rolleyes: he is THE toughest.
Schwietzka -- Don't know. Maybe the same reason he is one of my favorites: Great name and pose.
Manion and Lipe: Same, possible T206 (T211 ?) connection.
"Oyster Joe" Martina -- Rookie card of a player with long (20+ years) minor league experience, and "odd" late career appearance with World Champion 1924 Senators.
Lee, Macon -- ??????

253239

It is a great set to pursue. Yeah, 610 isn't terribly realistic. BUT, you can collect them any way you want --- team, series, region, etc........

Fun stuff, Scott

[ctownboy]

Since there is a guesstimate for the number of cards for each series and there are a number of people on the board who own these cards, why doesn't someone (not me since I don't know much about the set) start a spreadsheet and see how many cards members own and then compare that to the estimates?

David

[wnp22]

I wanted to comment on Joe Jackson. I think we all get lulled into thinking this card is not rare by how often it comes up for sale and flashed and marketed in front of our eyes constantly. (quarterly in some auction). I would ask anyone to tell me their definition of Rare. 10 or less? 15 or less? 20 or less? Joe is in that mix somewhere... Obviously, his card has been looked for the most out of the T210's, so most are unearthed and probably a very few still left buried in a group of T210's somewhere, meaning most/majority are accounted for... So how many Joe's are there on Population reports of PSA/SGC?

Here's a few pics of some of my favorite Memphis players for Nick...

Wow, great stuff. Thanks for posting the scans! Fingers crossed that one day I can finish off the Memphis set.

[Beansballcardblog]

Thanks to everyone that cmooneted on this thread. I’ve decided that I want to collect some of these and there’s not much info out there. This is the best source of info that I’ve found yet!

[oldjudge]

A few years ago I knew if three complete T210 sets and several near completion. I'd say that all cards have at least ten copies.

[paul]

How tough is the Mascot card?

[edjs]

How tough is the Mascot card?

Not so much tough as loved and not sold very often. Which makes them pricey when they come available.

[Jason]

How tough is the Mascot card?

I may have missing one or two but I have seen the Mascot card for sale a total of 5 times in the last 6 years. And the same card accounted for two of those sales.

Nice one Ed!

[edjs]

=Jason;1761440]I may have missing one or two but I have seen the Mascot card for sale a total of 5 times in the last 6 years. And the same card accounted for two of those sales.

Nice one Ed!
Jason, I still don't think it is all that tough a card, I think I am right that it just is not offered up all that often. It, to me, is the cutest card from the era. I am assuming that Kelly, Goldsboro is this guy's dad, and by contrast, dad's pop report is lower. To me "tough" means hard to even find, let alone buy. I could get a Joe Jackson tonight (not saying it isn't scarce, it really is) if I had the cash, and I don't think that one coming up every year is tough (you said you have seen five in six years). We both know there are some really tough cards, some I have never seen for public sale. I think it was you that bought that Viox awhile back, and that was the first time I have seen that card for sale, though one sold since then. I guess it is a personal definition of what "tough" is. Anyway, just a discussion, not meant as attack. Thanks for the compliment, the back of my Kelly is why I could afford it, but I could care less, I love this card.

[Jason]

Yes the T210 set has much tougher cards than the Kelly Mascot. I can agree with your thinking on the card not being offered too often due to its popularity. Awesome card either way!

[timn1]

I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298

[bnorth]

I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298

I have never had much faith in graded card #s. We have no idea how many ungraded cards there are. Then the graded #s are wrong because of resubmissions to the same or other company. I know I myself have affected those graded #s by at least 40 cards.

[timn1]

Lots of things can affect the graded card pop reports and make them incomplete if not unreliable. I think this type of survey may be more useful than some would be, however, because there's no particular reason to believe that one series of T210 would be affected more than the others by those factors.

I also feel like the order of scarcity pretty much confirms what we have always been told by the experts (1, 2, and 8 easier, etc.) - But take it FWIW to you-

[sb1]

I believe many of the T210 collections are largely ungraded, primarily due to the size of the set and the cost of grading, with the fact that most won't grade all that high.

As to guesstimates, I would take each number provided per series and multiply it times 3 and I think you will be close to actual populations.

[brianp-beme]

I believe many of the T210 collections are largely ungraded, primarily due to the size of the set and the cost of grading, with the fact that most won't grade all that high.

As to guesstimates, I would take each number provided per series and multiply it times 3 and I think you will be close to actual populations.

All good points by Scott, and a couple of others are that the T210 cards are not, besides for a handful of popular ones (Jackson, Stengel, etc.), cards that an investor are interested in, and thus many are in the hands of collectors who do/did not collect/buy graded cards, or would even consider having them graded. They are definitely low in population compared to the Monstrous T206 cards, but my guess is that they are still mostly in the hands of collectors and to a smaller extent non-collectors, and a whole mess still remain unslabbed. I think it is even possible that you could x4 the graded numbers and still be reasonably accurate. It is definitely helpful to see those graded card numbers as a point of reference.

Brian

[Jason]

I am no expert on T210s but since no one else has posted these figures, I will. I have been playing around with pop reports recently and here are the totals for the various T210 series (as of about 3 weeks ago):

PSA SGC TOT # in series PER CARD
235 555 790 75 10.533
396 597 993 87 11.414
216 597 813 95 8.558
109 167 276 49 5.633
121 369 490 87 5.632
127 193 320 66 4.848
81 126 207 67 3.090
292 540 832 114 7.298

I believe those numbers are very telling to the different levels of scarcity within the various Series. Very interesting to see them posted. Thank you for the information.

[Jason]

18 months since the start of this thread and I stand by my population guess even more:D There has not been a significant new collection come up for sale / auction in quite some time. There are a billion T206 Cobbs but no new T210's every make there way to the market. That goes for a lot of Southern issues as well such as T209-2 and T211. After a sparse year when I saw REA didnt have much by the way of those issues I got a little worried. My bank account has never been happier though lol.

[bnorth]

18 months since the start of this thread and I stand by my population guess even more:D There has not been a significant new collection come up for sale / auction in quite some time. There are a billion T206 Cobbs but no new T210's every make there way to the market. That goes for a lot of Southern issues as well such as T209-2 and T211. After a sparse year when I saw REA didnt have much by the way of those issues I got a little worried. My bank account has never been happier though lol.

Great set that i still need to finish the Ft Worth team set. Been buying Eddie Mathews cards and Wade Boggs bats instead. Someday I hope to be able to focus on a card project till it is finished. Probably won't be any time soon.:)

[Vintagecatcher]

I'll 2nd Jason's comments regarding how few new T210's are showing up.

Other than one's that have been on eBay forever, very few new listings.

Waiting impatiently for the drought to end!

Patrick

[Leon]

Yes the T210 set has much tougher cards than the Kelly Mascot. I can agree with your thinking on the card not being offered too often due to its popularity. Awesome card either way!

Older original thread but next to Jackson, Mascot is easily my favorite card in the set.

[Beansballcardblog]

I figured since this thread was getting a little love again, I'd share my progress on the T210 Fort Worth set. I picked up most of these earlier in the summer but wasn't organized. I'm happy to be getting back to that point.

Anyway, I've acquired 12 of the 16 Fort Worth players.

https://i1.wp.com/beansballcardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IMG_3168-3088810459-1568588310934.jpg?ssl=1&resize=219%2C219

https://i2.wp.com/beansballcardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IMG_3169-3474764109-1568588281596.jpg?ssl=1&resize=219%2C219

I'm also attempting to put together the Galveston and Dallas sets. If I win Powerball, maybe I'll be able to piece Birmingham together! LOL

Happy collecting, y'all!
-kin

[Jason]

I figured since this thread was getting a little love again, I'd share my progress on the T210 Fort Worth set. I picked up most of these earlier in the summer but wasn't organized. I'm happy to be getting back to that point.

Anyway, I've acquired 12 of the 16 Fort Worth players.

https://i1.wp.com/beansballcardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IMG_3168-3088810459-1568588310934.jpg?ssl=1&resize=219%2C219

https://i2.wp.com/beansballcardblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IMG_3169-3474764109-1568588281596.jpg?ssl=1&resize=219%2C219

I'm also attempting to put together the Galveston and Dallas sets. If I win Powerball, maybe I'll be able to piece Birmingham together! LOL

Happy collecting, y'all!
-kin


Nice T210's you have there! Like T206 it can be collected so many ways. Your last name wouldnt be Kiniff is it lol.

[sreader3]

This is a great thread that I missed the first time around. I know very little about T210s (a Busch in about EX is the only example I have ever owned) so I have nothing to add. But I really appreciate the thoughtful posts and the knowledge shared. For me, these are the threads that still make Net54 a worthwhile place to visit.

[Leon]

This is a great thread that I missed the first time around. I know very little about T210s (a Busch in about EX is the only example I have ever owned) so I have nothing to add. But I really appreciate the thoughtful posts and the knowledge shared. For me, these are the threads that still make Net54 a worthwhile place to visit.

+1 Although this is almost a 3 yrs old thread, I also wish all threads were informational and fun but I guess that isnt the world we live in. :(

2 current collection ones..

http://luckeycards.com/pt210x2.jpg

[clydepepper]

The 1910 Columbus (GA) Foxes

367070

[brianp-beme]

After seeing a near set of these T210 Old Mill cards as individual cards and team lots in an upcoming auction, I thought I would bring up this informative thread from several years ago to hopefully get some further input from fellow members.

As evidenced by the raw condition of the vast majority of this auction's collection, I still believe that a large percentage of T210 cards are still ungraded, for the reasons that I mentioned in my previous post on the thread years ago, though as time goes on, just like the rest of prewar, the scales are tipping more to the graded side of the scale, even for a collector-centric set of cards like the T210 Old Mills.

Here is a visual contribution of a good chunk of my ratty and paltry collection to get things rolling. Note that only one of my cards is graded (I'm looking directly at you, angry extra large scan Mulldowney).

Brian

Brian

[sb1]

As the AH of the T210 set that is currently being offered, I have to echo the scarcity of most of the cards of this set and especially the later series cards.

While there may have been a few collectors complete the set(with or without the Jackson), most of those complete sets have been broken up, as with the one currently being offered.

In a nutshell it is a very complex and difficult set with different levels of rarity.

I welcome collectors and bidders to view the offering of the T210's in my auction..

https://www.brockelmanauctions.com/T210_Series_7_Kelly_Mascot_Goldsboro-LOT23047.aspx

[mrreality68]

Great card and set and amazing diversity of players.

Love the look and someday hope to get my bucket list card from the set

Hope these all end up in good collections land hopefully on this forum

[rgpete]

Interesting topic my one and only Cabrol Series 7, which I think it's a misspelling and it's Charlie Carroll not a ghost card .This card was part of the Robert Edwards auction of 2015 Fall 1910-Era Baseball and Boxing Tobacco-Card Collection (22) Including T209, T210, and Lorillard's Mechanics. Also was listed in the Announcing the United States Card Collectors Catalog"- JR Burdick Mar. 1, 1939 as a newly listed card which was posted on this forum. So far what I found PSA has 2 total for their Population Report, dont know about the others,could be more Raw cards out there. I got this card October 2021

[t213]

I have about 150 T210s, only ten are graded, the rest are raw. As Scott pointed out, I'm not going to grade them because of the expense and most of them would only be 1s/2s. Grading them wouldn't enhance the value if I wanted to sell them.

Andy Cook

[sb1]

The T210 Set break-up in my auction ends tonight. A chance to acquire many of the very tough later series cards, or team groups from all series. Also, the Stengel and several border color variations.

Take a look, still time to get bids in.

Stengel

https://www.brockelmanauctions.com/T210_Old_Mill_Casey_Stengel_SGC_1_5-LOT22566.aspx

Scott

[destijl03]

The T210 Set break-up in my auction ends tonight. A chance to acquire many of the very tough later series cards, or team groups from all series. Also, the Stengel and several border color variations.

Take a look, still time to get bids in.

Stengel

https://www.brockelmanauctions.com/T210_Old_Mill_Casey_Stengel_SGC_1_5-LOT22566.aspx

Scott

I know this is a long shot, but if anyone on the board happened to pick up the Series 8 Rhodes from this auction and is willing to part with it, I’d pay over the closing price. Kicking myself that I completely missed this auction!

[Leon]

I know this is a long shot, but if anyone on the board happened to pick up the Series 8 Rhodes from this auction and is willing to part with it, I’d pay over the closing price. Kicking myself that I completely missed this auction!

I still sorely regret an auction ending (not Scott's) that I forgot about with a super rare type card I put a marker bid in on. It was about a year ago. It went for peanuts too!! It happens.
.