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Snapolit1
11-02-2016, 11:28 AM
What's the fascination with Plank? I am sure you can ask the same question about 20 other guys. Icons in the hobby. Hardly household names or even known to serious baseball fans. Is it something to do with one card and how it looked and people decided it was just cool looking? And it it then bled over to other cards? I realize he is a HOFer, but that hardly explains why he is the second most valuable card of all time.

ullmandds
11-02-2016, 11:32 AM
What's the fascination with Plank? I am sure you can ask the same question about 20 other guys. Icons in the hobby. Hardly household names or even known to serious baseball fans. Is it something to do with one card and how it looked and people decided it was just cool looking? And it it then bled over to other cards? I realize he is a HOFer, but that hardly explains why he is the second most valuable card of all time.

Is he 2nd most valuable card of all time...or is the mick?

It's all about T206!

steve B
11-02-2016, 12:08 PM
I'm sort of surprised to see this question here. Other sites it would be less of a surprise.


Basically, it's from one of the most popular sets ever. Part of that popularity is availability, someones first prewar card is often a T206. Another part of that popularity is the Honus Wagner card.

A bit of the rest is that the Plank T206 is far from common. Using the population reports however flawed gives at least a rough idea. Wagners - 46 from PSA/SGC combined. Plank - 101 combined. Magie - 177 combined.

The three things that make for a valuable card or any other collectible for that matter are - A great subject, just enough rarity to matter, and a good story. Plank is certainly rare enough, and for years the story was that the card was rare because the printing plate broke. (It might actually be that the story about the Wagner card is actually about Plank. ) He's hardly an unheard of player, he may not get the attention of a Cobb or Wagner, but he was a great player. Only a small handful of players will continue to have an overall public popularity at a high level for a century or more.

Now a better question is whether the rarity, popularity and value of the T206 has made the rest of Planks cards more valuable. I'd say that's probably true for some of those cards.

Steve B

Snapolit1
11-02-2016, 12:11 PM
Thanks Steve for the condescension. I don't collect Tobacco cards, but knew full well where his card fell in the Burdick classification system. Are you telling me there are not rarer tobacco cards? Heritage just sent out a catalog 1000s of tobacco cards. Are you telling me his is the second rarest tobacco card of all time? Would be interesting (and untrue).
And when you got done denigrating my question, it was kind of you to rephrase the question I actually asked, and then congratulate yourself for doing so.

packs
11-02-2016, 12:19 PM
I think it's all about the pose. The E95 sells pretty well too because it's the same image. I also think the image on the Cracker Jack helps it's value too, although it's not the same image. When I look at his Cracker Jack I can't help but think: there's a ballplayer. I've always wanted that card. It also helps that he was a part of the famous Mack teams.

scooter729
11-02-2016, 01:12 PM
Are you telling me there are not rarer tobacco cards? Heritage just sent out a catalog 1000s of tobacco cards. Are you telling me his is the second rarest tobacco card of all time? Would be interesting (and untrue).

There are most certainly many tobacco cards far rarer than Plank - many with populations in the single digits. But, they are in far less popular sets. It's the extreme popularity of the T206 set, coupled with the low pop of Plank, which make it so desirable. Plank's E104-1 card, for instance, is probably 10x rarer than the T206, but will sell for a small fraction, because the E104-1 set is far less popular and collected than T206.

If there are ~3,000 copies of other regular cards in the T206 set but only 100 - 150 Planks, that makes it 20x - 30x scarcer. Considering he is in the HOF and in such demand, the price tag is not surprising.

Sean
11-02-2016, 01:13 PM
It's probably not the 2nd most valuable any more. I would put it 5th.

1- T206 Wagner
2- Baltimore News Ruth
3- T206 Doyle Nat'l
4- T206 Cobb/ Cobb back
5- T206 Plank

In each of these cases the cards are both rare (ie-total number of cards) and scarce (number of cards relative to demand for the card).

Plank is a rare card from the most popular set ever. You are correct that there are many cards that are more rare than Plank, but there isn't the same demand for these cards.

Peter_Spaeth
11-02-2016, 01:42 PM
I think it's the combination of T206 where there are a lot of set completionists, relative scarcity, AND HOFer/300 game winner. I doubt the pose has much to do with it.

sb1
11-02-2016, 02:39 PM
what's a discussion without some cards.

Joshwesley
11-02-2016, 02:44 PM
Whoa!!!

frankbmd
11-02-2016, 02:48 PM
I'd pose a question, but am currently in repose, but not on my plank.:eek:

Sean
11-02-2016, 02:59 PM
what's a discussion without some cards.

Nice Plank Scott. Here's mine:



250124

tedzan
11-02-2016, 03:20 PM
Eddie Plank won 326 games.....he is the 3rd winningest southpaw (Spahn and Carlton are ahead of him). There are several other reasons
why his T206 card has always been in high demand. One of which is that Plank's card was printed on the same sheet as the Wagner card.

But, the most significant factor for this card's high value is that the demand for it far out-strips the supply.



http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/T206PlankSC150x30x.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/T206PlankSC150x30xb.jpg


TED Z
.

e107collector
11-02-2016, 03:31 PM
Nice cards everyone!!

Scott, is it safe to assume that your T206 Plank has a SC 150 back?

It has crystal clear focus and vibrant colors!!

Tony

sb1
11-02-2016, 07:00 PM
Yes, it's a 150, that's the reason I have held on to it, my other two were both typical washed out 350's(which is true of every card in the 350 series vs. 150 cards).

Here are one of each to compare.

Luke
11-02-2016, 08:37 PM
I prefer the washed out or "smooth" look of the 350s. Wonder if I am the only one. That's an amazing Plank Scott.

sago
11-02-2016, 08:45 PM
I think N172 Anson in uniform would easily be in 3rd if one ever hit the marketplace. IIRC, its been at least a decade.
It's probably not the 2nd most valuable any more. I would put it 5th.

1- T206 Wagner
2- Baltimore News Ruth
3- T206 Doyle Nat'l
4- T206 Cobb/ Cobb back
5- T206 Plank

In each of these cases the cards are both rare (ie-total number of cards) and scarce (number of cards relative to demand for the card).

Plank is a rare card from the most popular set ever. You are correct that there are many cards that are more rare than Plank, but there isn't the same demand for these cards.

Baseball Rarities
11-02-2016, 08:55 PM
I think N172 Anson in uniform would easily be in 3rd if one ever hit the marketplace. IIRC, its been at least a decade.

Yes, the Anson definitely would.

A Just So Young would as well.
I think that the T210 Jackson would sell for more in comparable grades too.

I am sure that there are more.

Snapolit1
11-02-2016, 08:56 PM
Cool stuff. Really cool stuff. Wish I had one.
The answers are essentially that they are scarce and the player was great and demand is high. I guess what I was getting at is why has demand always been high for some cards. I know it's not easy to answer. I have somethings in my collection where they are amazing hall of famers and less than 10 of them have been graded and there is little or no demand for the card. Some Zach Wheat strip cards as one example. Some of them I probably couldn't sell for $250. At some point there is a collective decision by a mass of people that the card is rare and a great player and is aesthetically pleasing. Like the 52 Mantle. I think there is a very subjective aspect to the demand for certain cards. Not saying it's good or bad. Some cards just have that "it" factor. Someone above said "he looks like a ball player". Maybe that's about it.

swarmee
11-02-2016, 09:31 PM
Well, your point about strip cards is different though. Just like cards bought direct from manufacturers today, they hold less interest than ones that were pack-pulled. Strip cards were sold in sheets at the store, or given away. They are also normally on lower grade paper than cardstock. So being flimsy and not connected to a brand name (Ginter, Goudey, Piedmont) reduces their interest because they are not "tobacco" or "candy" cards.

The vast majority of strip cards are ungraded, so worrying about the population reports for those issues is not something I would do.

EvilKing00
11-02-2016, 10:24 PM
What's the fascination with Plank? I am sure you can ask the same question about 20 other guys. Icons in the hobby. Hardly household names or even known to serious baseball fans. Is it something to do with one card and how it looked and people decided it was just cool looking? And it it then bled over to other cards? I realize he is a HOFer, but that hardly explains why he is the second most valuable card of all time.

I thought the balt ruth was #2

Yoda
11-03-2016, 12:28 PM
I wonder if perhaps one of the reasons for Plank's enduring popularity is the fact that he played for one of the era's premier teams, Connie Mack's Philadelphia A's. He was backed up by the million dollar infield and so on. If collectors back then were tucking away Eddie Collins and Home Run Baker cards then the paucity of Plank cards might have led it to become a chase card and increase its value even then. Who knows

glynparson
11-03-2016, 01:18 PM
It is the third rarest card in what is arguably the most popular, certainly the most popular prewar, set of all-time. You can only really compare plank to Wagner , Doyle, magie, and the polar bear demmitt and Ohara. With the Wagner and Doyle being scarcer. The fact that there are rarer prewar cards is irrelevant, look at all the Wagner's far rarer than the t206. It is a function of both supply and demand. The fact that Plank is a HOf lends some value but the bulk is due to its scarcity in such a hugely popular set. I don't find most other Plank issues to have a premium over comparable hall of famers.

BBB
11-04-2016, 12:34 AM
It is the third rarest card in what is arguably the most popular, certainly the most popular prewar, set of all-time. You can only really compare plank to Wagner , Doyle, magie, and the polar bear demmitt and Ohara. With the Wagner and Doyle being scarcer. The fact that there are rarer prewar cards is irrelevant, look at all the Wagner's far rarer than the t206. It is a function of both supply and demand. The fact that Plank is a HOf lends some value but the bulk is due to its scarcity in such a hugely popular set. I don't find most other Plank issues to have a premium over comparable hall of famers.



I agree , but would argue that plank does have a premium over comparable HOFers....which just means we disagree on what tier of players he is comparable to.

Like Wagner , the star power makes this card more alluring. That probably has a not insignificant impact on price (though I of course agree that most of price is due to scarcity / set popularity ).

Guess all I'm saying is I think there's a lot of people that might be more interested in owning something rare/special if it also has added benefit of HOF status....so demand goes up a bit from that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yoda
11-04-2016, 03:30 AM
The E95 Plank is or always has been an expensive card with nice copies selling for over a grand. Perhaps it is the poor man's T306 Plank---- same pose but a beautiful green background instead of blue. It will always probably be the 3rd most expensive card in the set after Cobb and Wagner.

Scocs
11-04-2016, 06:23 PM
I've often thought about this question regarding Plank. I always felt that had his T206 card not been a mega-rare one, he would have fallen in the "second tier" along with Lajoie, Speaker, Alexander....ultimately higher than the "generic" T206 HOFer.

clydepepper
11-04-2016, 06:43 PM
All of this prompts me to ask this question:

WHY is the T206 Plank so scarce?

We all have heard the various theories on why the Wagner is so rare, but I've never heard anything along those lines about the Plank.


As far as the list that was quoted, I assume that it was pre-war only.

I'm not sure if the prices on the '52 Mantle have been this high long enough to consider it a legitimate market value, but, if it has, it would have to be very close to the top on any all-time list.



.

tedzan
11-04-2016, 08:12 PM
All of this prompts me to ask this question:

WHY is the T206 Plank so scarce?

We all have heard the various theories on why the Wagner is so rare, but I've never heard anything along those lines about the Plank.
.


I have presented several theories over the years on this forum as to why American Lithographic discontinued issuing the T206 Plank card. Anyhow, I'll spare you the search......

I believe Eddie Plank's aversion of tobacco in any form is the dominant reason. He (most likely) contacted the American Tobacco Co. and and insisted that they cease and desist
issuing his image on tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Bobsbats
11-04-2016, 09:09 PM
What's the fascination with Plank? I am sure you can ask the same question about 20 other guys. Icons in the hobby. Hardly household names or even known to serious baseball fans. Is it something to do with one card and how it looked and people decided it was just cool looking? And it it then bled over to other cards? I realize he is a HOFer, but that hardly explains why he is the second most valuable card of all time.

Steve,

As a novice and not a T206 collector per say, I think Plank's go for a premium because you don't see a ton of them, and I don't mean the T206. There don't seem to be that many issues that you see all over. I consider Plank like a Burkett, Rusie, Galvin etc. Great HOF'ers, in between Mayo cut plugs, and T206. Tough finding issues that are affordable, thus creating real solid demand. Again, just my .02

rats60
11-04-2016, 09:41 PM
I have presented several theories over the years on this forum as to why American Lithographic discontinued issuing the T206 Plank card. Anyhow, I'll spare you the search......

I believe Eddie Plank's aversion of tobacco in any form is the dominant reason. He (most likely) contacted the American Tobacco Co. and and insisted that they cease and desist
issuing his image on tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

I have heard 2 theories. That is one, but in addition after t206 cards were released, children were buying cigarettes to get the cards. This turned off Wagner and Plank and ATC stopped producing their cards. The other was that Plank became an exclusive to the local Philadelphia Caramel Co. releases to help the local company.

tedzan
11-04-2016, 10:06 PM
I have heard 2 theories. That is one, but in addition after t206 cards were released, children were buying cigarettes to get the cards. This turned off Wagner and Plank and ATC stopped producing their cards. The other was that Plank became an exclusive to the local Philadelphia Caramel Co. releases to help the local company.


The Caramel Co. was my original theory that I posted on this forum in 2006. I did a lot of research on it, but could not find any real evidence to prove it.
It garnered a lot of interest here and you can read about it...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=84132&highlight=eddie+plank+theory

Subsequent research regarding Eddie Plank convinced me that his personal dislike for tobacco was the real factor behind his T206 card's short print run.
And, no subsequent T201, T202, T205, T207 cards.


TED Z
.

Snapolit1
11-04-2016, 10:37 PM
Cool reading. Thanks to all. Maybe someday I'll buy one.

Yoda
11-05-2016, 01:09 PM
Ted, wasn't there also a theory that the reason for the paucity of Plank's T206 card was that the actual printing plate broke and another was never made? John

Baseball Rarities
11-05-2016, 01:31 PM
Ted, wasn't there also a theory that the reason for the paucity of Plank's T206 card was that the actual printing plate broke and another was never made? John

Certainly not speaking for Ted, but I think that that is just a tale that has been passed down for decades. If there was a broken plate, then I assume that all of the Planks would be 150 Series cards instead of the reality that they are almost al 350 Series with a small number of 150 Series cards.

tedzan
11-05-2016, 02:49 PM
Ted, wasn't there also a theory that the reason for the paucity of Plank's T206 card was that the actual printing plate broke and another was never made? John


Hi John

The "broken plate" theory is a myth.

I'm sure you will recall that the same claim was made regarding the 1954 Bowman Ted Williams (#66) card back in the 1970's and 1980's.

This claim was dis-spelled when a former Bowman employee came into Bob Bartosz's shop (in NJ in 1985) with all the printing plates used
to print the 1954 Bowman set. Including duplicate printing plates which had the Ted Williams image on them.

Anyone who is knowledgeable on printing practices will tell us that printers produce multiple plates of given images.


Take care my friend,

TED Z
.

TheBigRedOne
11-07-2016, 08:04 PM
One's for sale on eBay....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/351878132898

steve B
11-08-2016, 01:21 PM
Thanks Steve for the condescension. I don't collect Tobacco cards, but knew full well where his card fell in the Burdick classification system. Are you telling me there are not rarer tobacco cards? Heritage just sent out a catalog 1000s of tobacco cards. Are you telling me his is the second rarest tobacco card of all time? Would be interesting (and untrue).
And when you got done denigrating my question, it was kind of you to rephrase the question I actually asked, and then congratulate yourself for doing so.

Not intended as condescension.

I suppose - without knowing how long you've collected so I could be way off -it's a bit of the difference between generations. More older collectors are generalists, while people who began more recently tend to specialize. Nothing wrong with either approach, it just means there will be moments where those differences become awkward.

Yes, there are a lot of Tobacco cards that are more rare. There are probably at least a couple sets where there are fewer cards total than Planks.

But rarity isn't everything. There are lots of things that add up to value. I think we're in the same boat as far as having stuff that's more rare than the big ticket items, but won't sell for anywhere near as much. That's unfortunately true for me in all my hobbies. I mean really, that silly upside down airplane stamp! There's almost 100 of them left and yet the stamps I have that were also sold in quantities of say 100 or less won't even bring 1000, let alone a few hundred thousand. Of course, the expensive one is from a very widely collected field, and mine are a lot more obscure, and the errors are a lot less showy.

Steve B

Snapolit1
11-08-2016, 02:32 PM
Apparently for years on this board people have argued and debated the very question I asked. And some of them believed theories that others believe they debunked. Others didn't find the question quite as simplistic or uninformed as you did.

Leon
11-09-2016, 01:03 PM
What's the fascination with Plank? I am sure you can ask the same question about 20 other guys. Icons in the hobby. Hardly household names or even known to serious baseball fans. Is it something to do with one card and how it looked and people decided it was just cool looking? And it it then bled over to other cards? I realize he is a HOFer, but that hardly explains why he is the second most valuable card of all time.

I think his T206 card, which probably isn't the second rarest card in the set (Doyle?) but possibly the 2nd rarest regular type card, is valuable because of the demand for the card. I think some of that mystique spills over into other sets with his portrait pose.

Luke
11-09-2016, 02:04 PM
I think his T206 card, which probably isn't the second rarest card in the set (Doyle?) but possibly the 2nd rarest regular type card, is valuable because of the demand for the card. I think some of that mystique spills over into other sets with his portrait pose.

Yeah, I agree. The demand and price tag for Plank makes perfect sense when you see the crazy prices for the Demmitt and O'Hara Polar Bears. They are no more rare than any other subject with a Polar Bear back and they go for huge prices because so many people want one to complete a set.

With Plank you have all of those elements plus it's a great looking portrait of an upper-tier Hall of Famer. The fact that he doesn't have a ton of other cards also contributes to the demand I think.

nat
11-09-2016, 10:17 PM
Not to hijack this thread and make it about baseball, but I don't know about calling Plank an "upper tier" hall of famer. His ERA looks really good because he was playing in the deadball era, but once you adjust for that it's a little bit better than Tom Glavine's and a little bit worse than John Smoltz's. He's got a healthy lead over Smoltz in innings pitched, but on that measure he's about exactly equal to Glavine. So I don't know quite where you want to draw the upper/lower tier line, but Plank comes out as having somewhat more value in his career than Tom Glavine. Which is good and all, but it's not Pete Alexander territory.

rats60
11-09-2016, 11:50 PM
Not to hijack this thread and make it about baseball, but I don't know about calling Plank an "upper tier" hall of famer. His ERA looks really good because he was playing in the deadball era, but once you adjust for that it's a little bit better than Tom Glavine's and a little bit worse than John Smoltz's. He's got a healthy lead over Smoltz in innings pitched, but on that measure he's about exactly equal to Glavine. So I don't know quite where you want to draw the upper/lower tier line, but Plank comes out as having somewhat more value in his career than Tom Glavine. Which is good and all, but it's not Pete Alexander territory.

I would say Plank is well above Glavine or Smoltz. Smoltz's ERA+ is going to be inflated by his years as a closer. Obviously he is no Alexander, who was the 9th player elected to the HOF. If that is where you draw your line, then you are saying that less than 10 pitchers are upper tier. To me Plank is going to be in the 2nd 10 and that is still upper tier. He is better than most hofers in the set and as a pitcher behind only the big 3.

Leon
11-10-2016, 08:55 AM
My previous poor man's Plank.....
http://luckeycards.com/pe104plankthomaskrausex3.jpg



Yeah, I agree. The demand and price tag for Plank makes perfect sense when you see the crazy prices for the Demmitt and O'Hara Polar Bears. They are no more rare than any other subject with a Polar Bear back and they go for huge prices because so many people want one to complete a set.

With Plank you have all of those elements plus it's a great looking portrait of an upper-tier Hall of Famer. The fact that he doesn't have a ton of other cards also contributes to the demand I think.

tedzan
11-10-2016, 10:00 AM
My previous poor man's Plank.....
http://luckeycards.com/pe104plankthomaskrausex3.jpg


Hi Leon

Many of the E104's have reverse images from the original Horner photos used in the printing of the T206 cards. Your Plank is an example of this.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/T206PlankSC150x30x.jpg




Another example is my E104-1 Bris Lord (whose image is actually that of Sherry Magee in reverse).

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/e104brislord.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/aMAGIEx75.jpg



TED Z
.

Bpm0014
11-10-2016, 10:21 AM
^^^ Cool info (as always) on the reverse image usage. Never knew that.

bigfanNY
11-11-2016, 10:20 PM
Coming into the Hobby in the early 1970's there were the Big "3" the Wagner and Plank T206 and the 33 Goudey Lajoie. These 3 cards had established themselves as the hardest to obtain cards in two of the most popular and collectible sets of baseball cards ever issued. They even sold t-shirts with the BIG 3 label and those cards pictured. At that time a Wagner sold for about $1500, a Plank for $400 and a Lajoie for about $500. IF..and a BIG IF you could find one to buy. A few months after my Father and I started collecting a Wagner was advertised for $1500 in the Sunday New York Times. The First Plank I ever encountered was from a collector here in NJ who I was trading with and he was showing me some of his checklists and I noticed the Plank. I thought it was a mistake and asked him if he had the card. He did and pulled it out a poor to good version I told him that it was a valuable card he thanked me and we kept on trading for about another 25 years. The first lajoie I came across I actually tried to buy. It was at a NYC show and a complete set of 33 Goudeys was for sale for a Thousand Bucks including the Lajoie. I tracked down my Dad he agreed it was a good purchase and we could afford it but by the time we went back it had sold. We purchased a 1940 Playball set (My Dad's favorite set) insted. I have never attempted to complete the T206 set but understand going to great lengths to complete a set.

Leon
11-12-2016, 08:03 AM
Your friend didn't know Plank (he owned) was valuable. That doesn't happen too often within the vintage hobby anymore...

Coming into the Hobby in the early 1970's there were the Big "3" the Wagner and Plank T206 and the 33 Goudey Lajoie. These 3 cards had established themselves as the hardest to obtain cards in two of the most popular and collectible sets of baseball cards ever issued. They even sold t-shirts with the BIG 3 label and those cards pictured. At that time a Wagner sold for about $1500, a Plank for $400 and a Lajoie for about $500. IF..and a BIG IF you could find one to buy. A few months after my Father and I started collecting a Wagner was advertised for $1500 in the Sunday New York Times. The First Plank I ever encountered was from a collector here in NJ who I was trading with and he was showing me some of his checklists and I noticed the Plank. I thought it was a mistake and asked him if he had the card. He did and pulled it out a poor to good version I told him that it was a valuable card he thanked me and we kept on trading for about another 25 years. The first lajoie I came across I actually tried to buy. It was at a NYC show and a complete set of 33 Goudeys was for sale for a Thousand Bucks including the Lajoie. I tracked down my Dad he agreed it was a good purchase and we could afford it but by the time we went back it had sold. We purchased a 1940 Playball set (My Dad's favorite set) insted. I have never attempted to complete the T206 set but understand going to great lengths to complete a set.