New member here NEEDS MAJOR HELP!!!

[maximus35]

Hey guys, I am SO GLAD i found this site. I wish I would have found it several weeks ago. I took a break from the hobby for about 8 years only to find out all these counterfeit PSA cards floating on ebay. I believe I may have been sold a counterfeit Pete Rose rookie recently. I will post pics later to get your guys thoughts and opinions. The serial matches PSA site and the bar code pops up as the Pete Rose I have after finding the PSA barcode app on my cell phone. I did some researching and saw a few signs to look for. I cannot tell if the top of the holder has frosted edges or wear from old age since its in the old PSA holder. I have few other cards I was passed down from my dad such as a Ted Williams that isn't worth much but was submitted by me personally about 10 years ago to PSA so I know its legit. On each corner one could argue the edges look frosted but its from old age.

I read once a PSA holder is cracked open, if you try to bend the holder it should be more flexible and not as hard as it was if it wasn't tampered with. Well my Pete Rose still seems hard when trying to bend the case. Unless the flip is legit and the holder was tampered with. A few ideas I can think of is maybe another previous owner was attempting to crack the card out to resubmit for a higher grading and changed his mind or the card inside is a real one that was trimmed so the corners look more sharp. The Rose does not look counterfeit. The blue border on top of the card matches the originals and there isn't any black outline around Rose's cap. I am sure counterfeits have gotten better but these are the only signs I know to go by.

I will try to post pics of my suspect Rose Rookie for all to see tomorrow. Thanks in advance guys. And once again, I am so glad I found this forum. Its going to help save me a lot of $. The main reason I got back into collecting was to make one final purchase I have wanted my entire collecting career…..to own either shoeless joe american carmel (A or PSA 1 is all I can afford) or a cracker jack joe jackson (prefer 1914 but will settle for 1915). Once I purchase this card, I am retiring and putting the cards away to be passed down to my son once he is old enough.

[Snapolit1]

Welcome dude. But please, a little editing next time would be cool. I can tell you from my own experience that if you want people to read your post try to keep them a little shorter.

[PolarBear]

Welcome dude. But please, a little editing next time would be cool. I can tell you no ones going to spend 15 minutes reading anyone's message.


LOL. I got through 3 sentences and gave up. :)

[ALR-bishop]

Welcome Max. Look forward to seeing your Rose

[maximus35]

Welcome dude. But please, a little editing next time would be cool. I can tell you from my own experience that if you want people to read your post try to keep them a little shorter.

LMAO I did not realize how long my post was. Sorry, I have lots of questions. I just edited my 1st post and included the edited parts below so you guys don't get too lost reading too much at once. LOL

Before I took my break from collecting, BGS ruled the market. PSA cards in same condition could be purchased for so much lower. I purposely bought all BGS/BVG cards and would stay away from PSA. I found the Beckett holders more attractive, more secure, and I like how they give you all the sub grades .I think it helps determine the strengths of the card vs others in same grade. So how come after all the drama with counterfeit PSA cards is Beckett not so popular nowadays?

Did I miss out on something??? I know BVG is rumored to not grade as strict as PSA when it comes to Vintage (now days) but years ago I was always under the impression it was the exact opposite with all Beckett cards….Beckett was more strict. It makes me now want to send all my Beckett cards to PSA for crossover but I like the Beckett holders for long term preserving of my cards. I heard stories how Beckett has recently been giving higher grades to cards not worthy, but if this was not so true in the past, wouldn't it mean buy older Beckett cards when the grading was more strict then submit them to PSA crossover service in hopes of getting a cheaper BVG card that will now grade same as PSA but worth more once switched into PSA holder.

[swarmee]

OK, here are my thoughts.
1) If you are worried about a Pete Rose rookie in a PSA slab, send it back to them on a "reholder" submission. They will confirm the card is authentic and was the one put in the slab (that it was not cracked) and then move the card to a newer, more secure slab with the newest flip (hologram and cert numbers both sides).
1a) You could also have the card sent in for "review" but it may come back as a lower grade.
2) You can do many searches on this site and others about why PSA is currently the highest regarded TPG PRICE-WISE. It mainly has to do with the following: market share, preponderance of collectors of 1950-1990 cards using them, and the PSA Set Registry, where collectors can display their collections and compete with other collectors for having the "Finest" sets of all PSA graded cards.
3) I have only collected graded cards for two years, and I've never seen someone else claim BGS/BVG to be the most stringent grading company at any time. But I currently own 500 graded cards, the vast majority being self-subbed PSA cards.
4) Sending BGS cards in slab to PSA will likely not get you a good percentage of cards to cross over at the same grade. You will likely have to break them out of the slabs and send them raw, but it's possible your cards will lose grades or not be graded due to trimming, or not meeting the correct size for their issue. Take a few months before deciding to send all your cards to PSA for crossover.
5) Welcome to the Net54 boards. We can see you're excited.

[swarmee]

I know BVG is rumored to not grade as strict as PSA when it comes to Vintage (now days) but years ago I was always under the impression it was the exact opposite with all Beckett cards…

Oh, and a rule of this board is that whenever you type an opinion of a person or company (positive or negative), your full name must be in the post. Most people just put it in their profile to show under our screen names on every post.

[maximus35]

Ok here are some scans of my questionable Pete Rose rookie. I blacked out serial # and grades for security reasons. Please tell me what you guys think:

Front: https://imageshack.com/i/pooK0s14j
front unclose: https://imageshack.com/i/pmUj8SRwj
top left corner: https://imageshack.com/i/pm152pp7j
back: https://imageshack.com/i/pnuwyoLwj
back top corner: https://imageshack.com/i/pnO16XJaj

[jhs5120]

….

I don't see anything blatantly wrong, but the amount of frost is unsettling for a high dollar card. Your best bet is to send the card to PSA and have them reholder the card for you.

[maximus35]

If you guys can see on my image shack account there is also a questionable Babe Ruth I purchased about 8-10 years ago. It was graded a 4 by KSA. I sent scans of it to KSA and they said they think its genuine. I have my doubts so I popped it out of its holder and am going to submit it to PSA for their opinion.

[baztacula]

There is a strange waviness to your pictures. Do you have a funhouse mirror lens on your camera or is that how that card/holder actually looks?

[JustinD]

1. The slab looks unusually frosted but the tabs seem to be okay. You have a good chance of it being okay, but resubmit for piece of mind or it will drive you mad.
2. I think you are correct although the PSA police will tell you no. BGS/BVG was stricter than PSA in years past as the graders gave zero leeway and expected the vintage to look like a new modern shiny card in condition.
3. This has changed as PSA tightened standards in the past couple years, more so in the very recent past. The problem with this is the grades are everywhere and have no consistency as they reslabbed the older grades with holos without regrading making the grades worthless. To have properly fixed the issue they should have downgraded appropriately and people could judge on the older slabs for themselves if they would handle the reslab.
4. PSAs popularity is because they became the Kleenex of the grading world to the investors and noobs, when many know that Puffs (BVG, SGC) are just fine. This is due to the registry and competition between those in it, and brand recognition, not in my mind a better product.
5. They are the main issue in numerous scams, but still seem to keep the reputation, so I really don't know if it will ever change. They seem to be impervious to bad press.
6. I believe fully they will purposely downgrade cards in competitor slabs to maintain an ego of superiority, so you IMO need to crack to submit.

[jhs5120]

If you guys can see on my image shack account there is also a questionable Babe Ruth I purchased about 8-10 years ago. It was graded a 4 by KSA. I sent scans of it to KSA and they said they think its genuine. I have my doubts so I popped it out of its holder and am going to submit it to PSA for their opinion.

You probably should've left it in the KSA holder :/

[Leon]

You probably should've left it in the KSA holder :/

I haven't seen the card but in my experience holders don't make cards authentic though some claim they do (as the 1917 Marquard Stamp which PSA wrongly says is Ruth).

[jhs5120]

I haven't seen the card but in my experience holders don't make cards authentic though some claim they do (as the 1917 Marquard Stamp which PSA wrongly says is Ruth).

No, but if the card is still in the holder and fake you might still have some semblance of recourse. KSA is still in business, but I don't know whether they guarantee their services.

[Leon]

No, but if the card is still in the holder and fake you might still have some semblance of recourse. KSA is still in business, but I don't know whether they guarantee their services.

True and I didn't even know they were still in business. I doubt they guarantee much if this card is bad. And as most hobbyists know the Rose rookie is one of the all time, and most, counterfeited classics.