PSA Gradings

[Snapolit1]

For you guys who helped me learn a great deal about photos, one more question:

How accurate do you believe PSA grading is when they say something is Type I? Have you seen examples where you believe they are wrong, or is it pretty rock solid? I am mostly a card guy, and they do make the occasional blunder there. Not trying to slam them, just trying to get a feel what you think about professional graders on photos.

Similarly, maybe the same question, is this really an exact science, or just an educated guess?

[drcy]

I assume they are reliable. They don't give condition grades, so their photo authentication bypasses that can of worms.

There is educated judgment involved in photo authentication, including judging if the image was made from an original negative, but determining that a photo is old involves science. You can accurately judge the age of photopaper and certain age signs only appear after many years.

My dad was an engineering professor, questioning of his only son going into art history-- until he found out how much science is involved in authentication and dating. Sometimes the tables are turned and I teach him the science.

You can always ask for a second opinion before buying. I'm not a sports photo buyer, so you can ask me.

[Snapolit1]

Thanks. It's just a little weird that it seems none of these grading companies will let anyone behind the curtain and explain what they actually do. I am sure when you spend $15M at Sothebys for some rare Picasso that shows up out of nowhere they have no hesitation explaining each and every step to you as to how it was authenticated.

[Lordstan]

Personally, I don't pay attention to grading when it comes to photos. Considering that these photos were not collector's items at the time, most should have some wear on them from use in a newspaper publication setting. To me, I look at the gross condition of the photo rather than small detail. A clipped corner of a border means nothing to me as far as what I'll pay, whereas a figure being fully cut out will make a big difference with some milld ground changes as well. Another thing to consider are publication marks, like grease pencil, etc. Some like them like that as it shows they were used. Others would rather have them totally clean. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What I mean is this...
This type of condition doesn't change the price in my mind but...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/Lou/Private%20traded%20sold/RuthThompsonfr.jpg

This definitely does...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/lordstan/My%20Lou%20Gehrig%20stuff/LG-1930LGwithbats.jpg

Do I need someone to put a numerical grade on it to tell me that there is a difference? NO.

That all being said, if someone can figure out a way to make money on it, I wouldn't be surprised if it does start happening. THere are always people with lots of money who want the ego trip of having the best of the best of the best, so will pay through the nose for something labeled "perfect" or "10".

[Snapolit1]

Don't care about grades either, but don't want to pay real bucks for a Ruth photo that someone printed last week and artificially aged.

[JoeyFarino]

Don't care about grades either, but don't want to pay real bucks for a Ruth photo that someone printed last week and artificially aged.

You should definitely invest in yee/fogels baseball photography book if youre planning on getting into photo collecting. Theres tons of great information thatll help you along the way. You can use it as a reference whenever youre getting ready to buy a photo. Also Henry yee is very very knowledgeable so when you send your photos to psa he will be the one authenticating them. That being said unless there is a news stamp or date stamp no one can know for sure when the photo was printed. The paper type can tell you around what era but you still cant narrow it down to 2 years unless theres some kind of stamp to indicate that. So just remember that when youre looking at original photos

[JoeyFarino]

And photo grading is just retarded in my opinion. I see beckett doing it and it makes no sense. The markings and other imperfections alot of the times are from handling and/or the news agencies doing when they were used for editorial purposes. Part of the history of the photo. Unlike baseball cards

[Forever Young]

Psa is better than anyone in determining if it is a type 1 or not as it is their system. Every other authentication company copied the system in one way or another and their research.
That said, everyone makes mistakes. So do your own research.
A Psa type 1 letter is a wonderful start if you are going to buy a 10k photo but also know why it was classified as such. It is a good way to preserve your investment t as well.
There is a lot of regurgitation in this thread so be sure to ask the right people the right questions and you will be good.
You seem to be doing well this far.

*edited*
Authentication and grading are separate things obviously.
1) is it an authentic type 1?
2) what would it grade?

Drc(very knowledgable and has written books/trailblazer in the photo hobby) is right in that Psa got is right. They don't numeric grade photos for many of the reasons stated in this thread(and probably will never).

Mark(also very knowledgable) doesn't care about the condition is much as many others. I can say that I also do not need a "mint" photo but certainly would like a nicer example if available.

Rmy/Rhys(hi) is also very knowledgeable. He would be a good contact as you know. He applies a grade but only as a guide obviously(I believe). These are not baseball cards. There is no way to grade these across the board/consistantly unless you grade them as such.

These are photos.. Works of art. I would rather have a complete Mona Lisa than one not whole or damaged. That said. If there is an iconic image and there is only one example available or if a higher example would run 50 times more, I might buy it. They were used and a little wear is expected.
Everyone has their own tolerance and price points. Buying a lower conditioned photo does not mean one has bad taste just like someone paying a premium for a mint example doesn't make them an ego maniac.
If everything was equal, one would be a complete fool not to take a nicer specimen.

[bravos4evr]

Thanks. It's just a little weird that it seems none of these grading companies will let anyone behind the curtain and explain what they actually do. I am sure when you spend $15M at Sothebys for some rare Picasso that shows up out of nowhere they have no hesitation explaining each and every step to you as to how it was authenticated.

not really. There's a reason a guy like Elmyr got away with forging late 19th century masters for 30 years. Nobody asked because nobody wanted to know.