PSA Vs. SGC

[SnkzBoyd]

Which company do you respect more for grading? I've noticed on eBay recently that PSA is selling for much higher on equivalent grades.

[jchcollins]

In a nutshell, PSA is the largest, generally most respected, and "market leader" of all graders. There are a zillion different opinions on whether or not they really are the best, but PSA graded cards will pretty reliably sell for more $ on the whole every time in comparison to a card in the same grade graded by SGC or Beckett (at least BVG). My advice is that if you are collecting with investment in mind, stick with PSA. If (like me) you collect purely for enjoyment of the hobby and love of the game, I don't think you have to. I have a few graded cards from all of the companies, and in my experience the grading is pretty much on the money with all of them - though they all make mistakes. You will run across some collectors that put their cards only in SGC slabs because they like the black inserts, and others who claim that BVG's grading is horrible and cite examples where a BVG 7 crosses only to a PSA 5. I have not found that to be the case personally, but for some folks that collect only graded cards, the politics of the slabs almost becomes a hobby of it's own. To me, the question of which slab do you "respect" more based on accuracy is up in the air. PSA clearly has the edge as the organized hobby's favorite, I think. But in terms of the grades they actually give out, I've seen all 3 of the big companies make pretty large mistakes before. At the end of the day, a professionally graded card is still only based on someone's (or a few someone's) opinion and is still subjective. I learned how to grade cards in the late 1980's, a decade before the first professionally graded slabs were ever seen. If you learn to do that properly and realize the subjective nuances that can exist between people, you will have a lot more tolerance for variances in professionally graded cards, I think. But again that advice is better spent on someone that collects for fun and not with the hopes of one day cashing in only PSA 8 or above cards to pay for retirement. Just some random thoughts...


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[Neal]

Which company do you respect more for grading? I've noticed on eBay recently that PSA is selling for much higher on equivalent grades.

PSA has always outperformed SGC prices for postwar cards, especially commons due to the number of set registry collectors.

SGC has always been consistent with grading, in my opinion. PSA has apparently tightened the consistency screw in recent years, and that consistent grading is evident in the marketplace. Both companies have their share of mistakes as well.

When you take everything into consideration (grading, customer service, holders, website, etc) I give the nod to PSA.

[DBesse27]

I give the overall nod to PSA, slightly, and in terms of investment value it's PSA in a landslide, regardless of whether it should be or not. With all that said, I think SGC does a good job and I like their holders. They're pretty good too.

[Exhibitman]

In a nutshell, PSA is the largest, generally most respected, and "market leader" of all graders. There are a zillion different opinions on whether or not they really are the best, but PSA graded cards will pretty reliably sell for more $ on the whole every time in comparison to a card in the same grade graded by SGC or Beckett (at least BVG). My advice is that if you are collecting with investment in mind, stick with PSA. If (like me) you collect purely for enjoyment of the hobby and love of the game, I don't think you have to. I have a few graded cards from all of the companies, and in my experience the grading is pretty much on the money with all of them - though they all make mistakes. You will run across some collectors that put their cards only in SGC slabs because they like the black inserts, and others who claim that BVG's grading is horrible and cite examples where a BVG 7 crosses only to a PSA 5. I have not found that to be the case personally, but for some folks that collect only graded cards, the politics of the slabs almost becomes a hobby of it's own. To me, the question of which slab do you "respect" more based on accuracy is up in the air. PSA clearly has the edge as the organized hobby's favorite, I think. But in terms of the grades they actually give out, I've seen all 3 of the big companies make pretty large mistakes before. At the end of the day, a professionally graded card is still only based on someone's (or a few someone's) opinion and is still subjective. I learned how to grade cards in the late 1980's, a decade before the first professionally graded slabs were ever seen. If you learn to do that properly and realize the subjective nuances that can exist between people, you will have a lot more tolerance for variances in professionally graded cards, I think. But again that advice is better spent on someone that collects for fun and not with the hopes of one day cashing in only PSA 8 or above cards to pay for retirement. Just some random thoughts...


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Very well said, er, written.

[SnkzBoyd]

Thanks. I was looking at a 52 Berk Ross on ebay and there is a decently priced Sgc 84/7 but I see the the PSA 7 has gone for $200+ more than the sgc recently. Seemed a big gap to me.


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[vintagetoppsguy]

If you're grading the cards for your own personal collection, go with whichever one you find more aesthetically pleasing. Some cards look better in PSA slabs, some look better in SGC slabs.

If you're grading to re-sell, the edge goes to PSA. Their slabs realize higher prices.

If you're looking to buy cards already graded, go with SGC. They're grading is more consistent and their cards sell for less than they're PSA counterparts.

[bnorth]

If you're grading the cards for your own personal collection, go with whichever one you find more aesthetically pleasing. Some cards look better in PSA slabs, some look better in SGC slabs.

If you're grading to re-sell, the edge goes to PSA. They're slabs realize higher prices.

If you're looking to buy cards already graded, go with SGC. They're grading is more consistent and their cards sell for less than they're PSA counterparts.

^Exactly what David wrote.^ The only thing I can add is if you are buying raw to get graded to resell. Wait till you are selling to see what companies cards sell for the most then. A quick flip would 100% be PSA now.

[dio]

For cards I'm not planning to sell: SGC
If planning for resell PSA

I personally likes SGC holder, people say newer PSA grades tougher. i think it is to some degree, I still see weak card in newer serial number as well. you can also find strong card in SGC holder in same grade at a discount

customer service: SGC hands down and more consistent in grading.

[jchcollins]

Very well said, er, written.

Thanks. :-)

[jchcollins]

Thanks. I was looking at a 52 Berk Ross on ebay and there is a decently priced Sgc 84/7 but I see the the PSA 7 has gone for $200+ more than the sgc recently. Seemed a big gap to me.


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Sounds about right to me. I don't have any empirical evidence, but especially I think with more obscure sets (like Berk Ross) it's not uncommon to see the comprable SGC card priced reasonably, and the PSA card a good deal higher.

[tschock]

Sounds about right to me. I don't have any empirical evidence, but especially I think with more obscure sets (like Berk Ross) it's not uncommon to see the comprable SGC card priced reasonably, and the PSA card a good deal higher.

Hmmmm... The idea that PSA is a good deal higher for more obscure sets and slightly higher for 'common' sets would give quite a bit of credence to the idea that biggest draw for PSA graded cards is the registry and not necessarily the grading. Obviously 1 or 2 cards doesn't prove this, but if the trend is there, it would be a good indication that the registry is the main driver of this, and the higher prices garnered is a side effect of the registry rush.

[jchcollins]

Again, I have no proof per se - but just saying if a card or group of cards from a particular set is less commonly available than others, in general I would expect the PSA graded cards to sell for more than SGC.

[Bcwcardz]

Hmmmm... The idea that PSA is a good deal higher for more obscure sets and slightly higher for 'common' sets would give quite a bit of credence to the idea that biggest draw for PSA graded cards is the registry and not necessarily the grading. Obviously 1 or 2 cards doesn't prove this, but if the trend is there, it would be a good indication that the registry is the main driver of this, and the higher prices garnered is a side effect of the registry rush.
I do believe the registry is the main driver of PSA graded cards. A very smart move by PSA to have people grade cards they otherwise wouldnt. When you have something where people compete just to say they have the best you will have fierce competition. Cards that were irrelevant have now become relevant. As long as PSA has a registry they will always be the most popular. Popular doesnt always mean the best though, that like grading is subjective.

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[mattjc1983]

PSA has always outperformed SGC prices for postwar cards, especially commons due to the number of set registry collectors.



SGC has always been consistent with grading, in my opinion. PSA has apparently tightened the consistency screw in recent years, and that consistent grading is evident in the marketplace. Both companies have their share of mistakes as well.



When you take everything into consideration (grading, customer service, holders, website, etc) I give the nod to PSA.



I admittedly haven't worked with them personally, but I was under the impression that PSA customer service is virtually non-existent? For instance , they don't respond to questions about obvious fakes/forgeries, or really don't even acknowledge they exist? Is there truth to that allegation?


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[swarmee]

Is it really customer service if you're not a customer? They do respond to their customers (submitters), but it has been slow and annoying (for thing like trying to get mislabeled cards fixed. Their customer service people aren't really "card" people and have the knowledge to answer your questions. Those people have to send them up the chain, in my experience.

The Registry Set team is actually very responsive and knows more about cards.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Is it really customer service if you're not a customer?

:rolleyes:

Uhhh, yeah. Customer service is not only for customers, it's for potential customers too. That's not just true of PSA, it's true of any business.

[bswhiten]

I admittedly haven't worked with them personally, but I was under the impression that PSA customer service is virtually non-existent? For instance , they don't respond to questions about obvious fakes/forgeries, or really don't even acknowledge they exist? Is there truth to that allegation?


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IMO it depends on who you are working with for customer service. Like any other company they run the gamut from not so good to amazing. They do respond to fakes and overgrades quite well. I have been compensated (vouchers) for fake cards that were slabbed. And I have an overgrade case with them right now that customer service has been awesome to work with.

[Exhibitman]

If SGC cards sell for substantially less in the same condition why not buy the SGC cards? Seems like a deal to me. You can always cross them over. I purchased an SGC card in 2015 for 40% less than a comparable PSA card, crossed it to PSA and sold it for a multiple of what I paid for it. Seems like a viable hole to exploit in the system.

[RayBShotz]

The folks at PSA Customer Service who answer the phones are good people. They honestly try to do everything that is in their power to please the customer. (be prepared, though, for a 20-30 minute wait to get through).

Problem there is that Customer Service is a pretty black and white position with little or no "empowerment". You will be told cold hard facts (often those which are posted in the website updates anyhow which they regurgitate) and no reasonable conjecture. They also do not have any power to influence what's going on behind the curtain.
If you are looking for them to do so, you're expectations of them are too high. If you force them into conjecture like "when do you THINK my grades will pop?", the answer is purely a guess.
They have no additional insight that they are withholding, just what the computer tells them.
It is very, very rare for the average customer to be able to "get past the front door".
You are dealing with the PSA machine, a division of a publicly traded company.
It's all about revenue.
They can't count the money fast enough.

If you want personal service call SGC. Someone will pick up the phone. It's an itty bitty little company now fractured into tiny pieces most of which are hunkered down in FL. The product is great, I love the product, but you have to question the end game.

At the Nationals, there was a stark differentiation. PSA had 10 or 12 intake CS Reps handling enormous lines of customers open to close every day of the Show. It was like the ice cream stand on the first 90 degree day of the summer season. SGC booth, by contrast, had 1 or 2 intake people and no lines (customers).

In the end, we know exactly what we will get and we make a choice.
RayB

[Pilot172000]

I just finished reading "The Card" about Gretzky/McNall Wagner and Mastro. It was very eye opening for me. I'm not one to base all my opinion on one book but it did State some ominous stuff about PSA. I sent all my T206 cards that I plan to keep to SGC because I like the way they look. Beckett was mentioned as being brutally honest which is the reason I have kept my Nolan Ryan stuff in BVG. SGC needs to do a better job on their registry and pop report. They are hard to navigate but their service is second to none. BVG has nice holders but I hate having to deal with them. I don't buy cards because of holders. I buy them because I like the way they look and how they fit in my personal collection.

[jchcollins]

I still find it interesting that David Hall and PSA were never held more accountable for the fiasco surrounding that card. You can't tell me that they didn't have any suspicion at all that it was trimmed. The encapsulation of that Wagner basically means that the start of their graded card business - or at least from the time when they started putting cards in slabs - is a big fraud. The hobby moved on and now PSA is the hottest thing going in grading, but look at the charges of favoritism shown in grading to large dealers, or how their standards - admittedly even by fanboy collectors - seem to change from time to time? I think that all goes back in some way to the fact that PSA as a company doesn't have a great track record with honesty and consistency - from the very beginning.

It may have something to do with the fact that there are investors and then there are collectors - and interestingly enough, companies like SGC seem to have a reputation as being more consistent and fair among those that would consider themselves collectors first and foremost.

[Pilot172000]

I'm an collector not an investor. I've never owned a T206 over a 4. I don't collect based on value and have always gotten bitten when I attempted to buy that way. I have had a ton of cards graded by all three and really find that it's about preference. I started with SGC then moved to the others before coming back home to SGC. Customer Service and Integrity go a long way with me. I don't want anyone doing me any favors with the grades. If it's a three it's a three. If it comes back a 4 or 5 I'll know and that takes the fun out of it.

[Jsquared123]

I agree with the general sentiment on the board for sure. I think the reason why SGC has become more notable for pre-war cards is that their holder just looks way better without all that empty space for the smaller than standard cards back then. Also, and maybe this is just a personal preference, but I think cards with a lot of color, like the '53 Topps set just pop a lot more with the black holder. Just my very personal opinion but I think aesthetics is a bigger factor and has kept SGC in the game for as long as they have been.

[jchcollins]

I agree with the general sentiment on the board for sure. I think the reason why SGC has become more notable for pre-war cards is that their holder just looks way better without all that empty space for the smaller than standard cards back then. Also, and maybe this is just a personal preference, but I think cards with a lot of color, like the '53 Topps set just pop a lot more with the black holder. Just my very personal opinion but I think aesthetics is a bigger factor and has kept SGC in the game for as long as they have been.

Agree with you. I have a '56 Topps Ted Williams in an SGC slab. It's only a 3, but the colors really pop, and it looks awesome with that black insert.

[ChiSoxTony]

Is it really customer service if you're not a customer? They do respond to their customers (submitters), but it has been slow and annoying (for thing like trying to get mislabeled cards fixed. Their customer service people aren't really "card" people and have the knowledge to answer your questions. Those people have to send them up the chain, in my experience.

The Registry Set team is actually very responsive and knows more about cards.

I agree with most of the positives said about PSA. However, I also agree with the comments about their customer service being poor.

I contacted them recently when I signed up for my membership and received an autograph book instead of the PSA shirt that was supposed to come with my membership. The website even had me go through picking out the size of the shirt. (This was NOT really a big deal, but my I had given last year's shirt to my wife and told her she was a PSA 10. I told her another shirt was on the way when I renewed my membership only to find an autograph book in the mail, so I was a little bummed out.) I emailed and called them. Over a month passed with no response. I never received a return call at all. Then I got an email saying that I had received the book and not the shirt because I renewed my membership after 8/1/16. I told them that simply checking my credit card statement proved that I renewed on 7/26, and that their records should also reflect this as the date of payment. I received absolutely no further correspondence from them. Two weeks later I got the shirt in the mail. They ultimately solved my issue, which was not a big deal to begin with, but their initial response was unacceptably slow and incorrect, despite the fact that the date on which I paid was very easy to validate on their part. This is just one of several similar interactions that I've had with their customer service department. The impression I get is that they are understaffed and that there is culture that is based at least to some degree on saving a buck as opposed to pleasing and keeping customers. They are making TONS of money off of us and some of it should be put into improving their customer service. As for now, I'm still a member of the registry and they'll still be getting my money because I appreciate their product.

[Buster#1]

One thing i can tell everyone out there is psa is dishonest.. very.
As far as psa grading...track history of psa card graded card...if its a big time collector or a big shot as opposed to a regular collector chances are 90 percent that the psa card is over graded.
Sgc doesn't pull that crap they are legitimate

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[Hammerin'Hank]

The only time I submit to PSA is through a dealer who do bulk submissions. I've only done it twice when I was trying to flip some cards.

When I'm sending in cards that I want to keep in my collection its SGC all the way.

[jchcollins]

Everyone makes mistakes. The charges of favoritism to folks like 4 Sharp Corners or other large dealers on behalf of PSA is something different, however. I don't know if there is enough evidence to prove anything yet on a grand scale, but I have seen examples on other threads here, where an otherwise sharp card with a light wrinkle or barely perceptible crease or something like that gets a 6 when it goes through a large dealer and maybe a 3 or 4 when submitted by Joe Blow collector. That kind of thing is glaring.

My larger problem with PSA however is the inconsistency in grading standards over the years. Look at a grouping of vintage PSA 5's from the 1999-2003-ish era vs. those graded in the last two years and tell me if you think that on the whole the older slabs were held to the same standard?

[Buster#1]

I will wager anything
Bring your psa grader and I will break out 5 psa 8s and 5 sgc 88s they won't be able to tell which is which.
I'd give 10000 dollars to your charity of choice if u can tell...psa grader

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[Buster#1]

Again I write...I ask any psa grader to challenge my cards...vintage.
I tried to cross a few sgc cards that were once in psa 8 holders and were crossed to sgc 88s. A ton of cards the owner had of these types of cards who was not a psa fan and money was no problem had a 40 percent success rate in crossing psa 8s to sgc 88s.
I tried to cross a few of these sgc 88s back to psa 8s that were once in psa 8 holders w no luck.
What does that tell us?
I said I'd give a donation of 10000 dollars to your charity of choice if I broke out 5 or 30 of my sgc cards and psa cards all 88s and 8s of the same yr and same make.
I'd even bump it to 15000 to your charity of choice.
SIDS is my favorite charity
No grader from psa can do this and wont because my sgcs are nicer than my psa 8s except for my ruth cards


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[swarmee]

You come off as a drunk guy when you post at 1am in these diatribes. I'm not sure anyone cares about your challenge.

[Johnny630]

Again I write...I ask any psa grader to challenge my cards...vintage.
I tried to cross a few sgc cards that were once in psa 8 holders and were crossed to sgc 88s. A ton of cards the owner had of these types of cards who was not a psa fan and money was no problem had a 40 percent success rate in crossing psa 8s to sgc 88s.
I tried to cross a few of these sgc 88s back to psa 8s that were once in psa 8 holders w no luck.
What does that tell us?
I said I'd give a donation of 10000 dollars to your charity of choice if I broke out 5 or 30 of my sgc cards and psa cards all 88s and 8s of the same yr and same make.
I'd even bump it to 15000 to your charity of choice.
SIDS is my favorite charity
No grader from psa can do this and wont because my sgcs are nicer than my psa 8s except for my ruth cards


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You weren’t the only one who got destroyed on crossovers and reviews at the National. PSA may and I say may bump your lowest value card. They have bricks so stingie right now they’re not gonna cross 80’s in other holders. Lessons learned, I’ll wait.

[bn2cardz]

You come off as a drunk guy when you post at 1am in these diatribes. I'm not sure anyone cares about your challenge.

All the behavior is weird. Shows up 3 months ago and resurrects 2 old threads and starts another all regarding SGC v PSA. Then comes back 3 months later to do it again.

[Buster#1]

That's comical
I work nights and I dont drink
My point is...
I'd break out let's say 15 sgc 88s and 15 psa 8s all pre war and the same year and make
I bet anyone in the hobby that they could not tell which ones are which.i
I believe the psa 8s are not far more inferior but of less quality than my sgc 88s
I have cards in both holders. I look at them w a loupe and still don't know why people think psa 8s pre war are nicer
If u dont have a clue, it's obvious that psa gave bumps to big shots and great customers....not sure they do anymore but I bet they do if card is already in a psa holder


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[Buster#1]

2 of the largest card holders in the world
One has passed and one is still alive wont have anything to do w psa
The one who passed was a filthy rich man
He wanted honest cards and the other is the same way.. heritage owns half of psa
U dont think they get bumps

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[Buster#1]

If u r that ignorant
Heritage sells cards for people, obviously
But they also own a ton of stuff that they buy from collectors
I know several people that sell to them
Do I need to spell it out.... heritage owns half of psa.
Nobody knows that

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[Buster#1]

A slight conflict of interest
Miller brewing co. Cant own distribution centers...they have to sell to them
Illegal to own a distributorship
How can heritage own half of psa when they are selling memorabilia graded by PSA
A half grade can be tens of thousands of dollars for a ruth card

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[Buster#1]

I'm sorry if my posts come off a little off
I'm old but have been collecting for 50 yrs
I know how to grade cards.
I don't know much about post 1969 cards absolutely nothing
I only collect vintage cards
Football basketball baseball and hockey
I know sgc is more fair..that's all and I have cards graded by both companies to prove it


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[Buster#1]

So again I ask psa's top grader to determine which cards are better
I will break out 20 sgc 88s and 20 psa 8s
Same yr and same maker...put them in front of grader
He or she will not be able to tell me which is which
I bet my sgc cards will be selected as higher end collectibles

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[rats60]

If u r that ignorant
Heritage sells cards for people, obviously
But they also own a ton of stuff that they buy from collectors
I know several people that sell to them
Do I need to spell it out.... heritage owns half of psa.
Nobody knows that

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Collectors Universe, the parent of PSA, is a publicly held company. They are traded on the NASDAQ. There are no secret owners. Please continue with your midnight drunk posting. It gives us all a lot of laughs.

[Republicaninmass]

Collectors Universe, the parent of PSA, is a publicly held company. They are traded on the NASDAQ. There are no secret owners. Please continue with your midnight drunk posting. It gives us all a lot of laughs.


And if you would please
Continue to use format
Properly haikus

[swarmee]

Doesn't Beckett Grading
Own Goodwin?
The Mind Boggles.

[JollyElm]

325415

[Buster#1]

Is there a psa card grader out there that can tell me which cards are of higher quality
I have sgs 88s and psa 8s same year same card maker....pre war
I will break out cards from both holders
No doubt that the sgcs are better which is why psa wont dare to try and tell me which cards are psa 8s... sgc grades just as tough if not tougher on pre war but psa would never admit that


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[Peter_Spaeth]

If anything, Heritage has a close connection to SGC because their VP of Sports Auctions used to grade there. But the conspiracy theories are just that in any event. Obviously you prefer SGC and that's fine they have much merit, but your posts aren't exactly going to convince anyone who feels otherwise, or who likes both companies.

[Buster#1]

Theres a guy that works for rea that worked for sgc
I believe his name is mitch
Are u thinking about him

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Theres a guy that works for rea that worked for sgc
I believe his name is mitch
Are u thinking about him

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No I am talking about Derek and to be clear I am not suggesting any impropriety at all, just pointing out a fact. But if you want to talk about REA, the owner himself used to work at SGC back in the day.

[Buster#1]

Fair enough

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[Buster#1]

I dont necessarily prefer sgc. I just have a hard time paying much more for psa graded cards that are not better. In most cases they are inferior. But to complete this extremely rare set, I have to buy both. I only buy 8s or 88s if possible. I am not saying psa is inferior in all areas
I think they are better in post war memorabilia but not in pre...I have the cards to prove it.

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[Buster#1]

This is to mike
Mike I have 75 percent of the 1933 goudey set at psa 8 and sgc 88
I have all the ruth cards no gehrigs
I also collect the 1915 cracker jack set
I have half the set many at 9s and the rest at 8 or 88s
I dont have the shoeless or Alexander card yet
I've had chances....but I'm waiting a little longer.
I have chicken crap sets like 56 topps and 53 bowman but 33 and 15 will be an excellent catch
I know cards
Sgc is really tough
I have a hard time crossing psas to sgc
Only a 40 percent rate
So I keep the psas
Sgc is so tough on pre war
I would prefer all my pre war to be sgc

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[Buster#1]

I recently tried to cross a few sgc 88s to psa 8s at the convention
I have scans of the cards at psa 8 that were crossed from psa 8 to sgc 88s
I carefully selected the cards
None of them crossed not one out of more than 10 submitted

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[Buster#1]

Psa tried to put arrows on the cards showing me the defects .....there weren't any
Some they said had cut Mark's from when they were cut in the year they were made
I laughed...the cards are perfect and quite honestly a guy I showed the cards to who owns an auction company a large one thought they were 8.5s. He only has been in the business 30yrs
Many of u have probably bought cards from his company

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[Republicaninmass]

[QUOTE=Buster#1;1804294]I recently tried to cross a few sgc 88s to psa 8s at the convention
I have scans of the cards at psa 8 that were crossed from psa 8 to sgc 88s
I carefully selected the cards
None of them crossed not one out of more than 10 submitted

/QUOTE]

Ergo PSA sometimes has stricter standards and usually bring a higher price.


------------------END OF THREAD------------

[Buster#1]

I hate to say this but I have a friend that took a big risk and cracked out some psa 8s and sgc 88s
Sent them to psa for grading, 3 sgc 3 psa
No psas came back as 8s and 2 sgcs came back as 8s
The others came back as 7s
Also he sent a high end psa 7 in and it came back an 8.....go figure

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[Buster#1]

It depends on who is grading
If u feel lucky try it...I didn't have the gutt to do it

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[Buster#1]

Nothing really to gain by trying to see if a psa 8 is cracked out and having regraded because u can only lose money
But if u are trying to prove a point and when psa 8s being regraded and come back as 7s and sgc 88s being cracked out come back as psa 8s....something is wrong
Hopefully some day software will be available to determine what is what

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[Buster#1]

I forgot to mention the cards that were regraded by psa that were cracked out which were psa 8s and sgc 88s and no psa 8s came back as 8s and 2 sgcs came back as 8s were from the same set

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[Buster#1]

The bottom line is concerning sgc vs psa.
If u want quality and are a collector sgc is the way to go...less expensive
I've tried to cross pre war cards graded by both companies and they came back the same almost 100 percent of the time.
Now I did have a psa grader bump my sgc cards on one instance and that was cool.
But I've tried the crossover many times and it's not worth it.
U get charged big fees whether bumped or not, and they mostly come back the same.
High end cards are known by the industry, these companies are not going to bump u
Too much risk.

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[Buster#1]

I will say one thing on sgc vs psa concerning 1933 goudeys
Sgc was very hard on grading these cards...harder than psa...I'm going back some years.
If u have sgcs in 33 goudey at 88, they are on average much nicer than psa 8s
They deserve a 92 grade compared to psa 8s in most instances..if anyone really knows the difference between a psa 8 and a sgc 8.5.
But surface area is what sgc loves
Surface is key....color.
Yes corners are big....surface color is really important


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[Buster#1]

When u compare a pre war card and look at surface color compared to corners
What's more appealing
Yes u cant have rounded corners but if u have one rounded corner but the card is glowing because it was stored properly what is your preference
Psa is huge on corners
Sgc is huge on corners and surface color
And both are strict on centering
A personal preference...and scans are extremely misleading because cards are photo shopped

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[frankbmd]

This is to mike
Mike I have 75 percent of the 1933 goudey set at psa 8 and sgc 88
I have all the ruth cards no gehrigs
I also collect the 1915 cracker jack set
I have half the set many at 9s and the rest at 8 or 88s
I dont have the shoeless or Alexander card yet
I've had chances....but I'm waiting a little longer.
I have chicken crap sets like 56 topps and 53 bowman but 33 and 15 will be an excellent catch
I know cards
Sgc is really tough
I have a hard time crossing psas to sgc
Only a 40 percent rate
So I keep the psas
Sgc is so tough on pre war
I would prefer all my pre war to be sgc

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I have one of those chicken crap sets as well and don't know whether to feel complimented or belittled, since you have one too.;)

[Buster#1]

I've posted alot on this site....as I have experienced more and more...I can not tell the difference between a psa 8 and a sgc 88 with vintage cards...its so close
They both know what they are doing.
I have psa 8s and sgc 88s in the same collection....33 goudeys
Some psa 8s are nicer than my sgc 88s and vice versa and I'm sure any experienced collector knows that.
I can not give an edge to either in my set
Really can't.
Enjoy your cards..u will get back what u paid for them...if u bought right, whatever company graded. I think sgc cards will close the gap on price in the future yrs.
True collectors see that it's a coin toss between the 2 companies
I don't collect post 1957 so I cant speak intelligently on those cards.
If you want to make an investment in vintage cards, sgc might be the way to go....there's wiggle room
Sgc cards are graded just as tough as psa
I respect both. Sgc is more strict on surface and corners and psa is strict on centering.
Personal choice.


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[Buster#1]

Remember one thing...the 2 CEO's from sgc and psa. are extremely talented, and great guys. They are competing against each other.
Don't submit vintage cards for cross. They know every high grade card out there...
They will not give upgrades....makes them look negative
It ain't gonna happen and it's my experience that psa damages alot of cards in the process...because of all the young people doing the grading...they are overwhelmed and damage a ton of stuff because of the volume.



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[Buster#1]

If u want service and real grades sgc is better
Psa will give u real grades if they don't damage your card from an 8 to a 6

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[Buster#1]

Think of psa and sgc in these terms
U make a pot of soup for 10 people..it can be perfect but if u make a pot of soup for 50 it's just not as good..mistakes are made.
Sgc makes the soup for 10 and psa for 50

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[Promethius88]

If u want service and real grades sgc is better
Psa will give u real grades if they don't damage your card from an 8 to a 6

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I'm not a pre-war guy but I hear a lot of talk that SGC is better with pre-war. From what I have seen they don't factor centering in as much as PSA.
I guess that isn't why I responded, though. My question is how many cards have you had damaged by PSA? Your comment makes it sound like most are coming back damaged???
I've submitted thousands over the years and I can't say with any certainty that any card I have personally submitted came back damaged. This includes overn 1k this past year while they have been more swamped than ever.
Now, I'm not saying they don't damage cards....I know they do and I'm sure it happens at all TPG's. I would also venture to say that the % with PSA is higher due to the fact that they certify far more cards than any other TPG.
My biggest argument though, is that you can INDEED make just as good a pot of soup for 50 people as you can for 10. Sometimes even better! ;)

[Buster#1]

Good point
Thx for reply

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[Buster#1]

I'm going to tell everyone a true story
I had over 100 sgc 88s pre war cards same set that were all graded by psa as 8s.
Pics are available..my friend hated psa and had them crossed to sgc
I bought the sgcs because they obviously were more reasonable
There were 3 huge collectors out there at one time that would buy psa 8s and tried to cross to sgc...why...I don't know. But didn't have huge success in crossing...they would resell the psa 8s and try to find better ones to get crossed to sgc 88s and had success with high grade 8s
I guess they saw a lot of shenanigans w psa in the early days.
I knew all the cards I purchased, were once psa 8s
So I sent many of them in to get crossed and remember...they were all upper 8s in PSA holders
And had not one crossed back to psa..Not one.

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[Buster#1]

As a matter of fact....they downgraded all of them

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[Buster#1]

And it cost me a fortune

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[ClementeFanOh]

Buster's point- "If u want service and real grades sgc is better" is spot on. SGC knows how to grade cards more accurately and consistently- period. PSA somehow still manages to get the highest values, which has EVERYTHING to do with why many people favor them- not their quality...and there are a bunch of veteran freelance graders out there who can do better than most at PSA or SGC!

[KendallCat]

Great info and thanks for sharing. This is almost a one man threw so I figured someone else better comment as well 😄

KC

[Republicaninmass]

As a matter of fact....they downgraded all of them

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Wow, post a screen shot of the results

[sfh24]

I have to agree with those who favor SGC. I have at least found "equal" grading standards. However, I do acknowledge the higher values for PSA.

I typically remove the cards from the slab and place them with my sets. As a result, I appreciate the lower prices with firm grading standards in SGC.

[KCRfan1]

I'm going to tell everyone a true story
I had over 100 sgc 88s pre war cards same set that were all graded by psa as 8s.
Pics are available..my friend hated psa and had them crossed to sgc
I bought the sgcs because they obviously were more reasonable
There were 3 huge collectors out there at one time that would buy psa 8s and tried to cross to sgc...why...I don't know. But didn't have huge success in crossing...they would resell the psa 8s and try to find better ones to get crossed to sgc 88s and had success with high grade 8s
I guess they saw a lot of shenanigans w psa in the early days.
I knew all the cards I purchased, were once psa 8s
So I sent many of them in to get crossed and remember...they were all upper 8s in PSA holders
And had not one crossed back to psa..Not one.

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With all due respect, as an experienced collector, you had to have known that trying to cross grade from one TPG to another the likelihood of all cards receiving the same grade was slim.

Regardless of the grade the cards previously received.

And trying to cross Pre-War 8's is something most of us wouldn't toy with. At best, you get the same grade. It's unlikely you bump to a 9, more likely you could drop in grades.

If you have Pre-War 8's, or had, you're flying in rare air. If you've got them, post them.

We would love to see them and certainly have great appreciation for them!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Buster's point- "If u want service and real grades sgc is better" is spot on. SGC knows how to grade cards more accurately and consistently- period. PSA somehow still manages to get the highest values, which has EVERYTHING to do with why many people favor them- not their quality...and there are a bunch of veteran freelance graders out there who can do better than most at PSA or SGC!

You have it backwards. PSA gets the highest values BECAUSE, rightly or wrongly, people favor them. The logic of your statement is like people go to that restaurant because it's crowded.

As for James' misfortune, that's the politics of crossover, which can be brutal. There may also be an element of ultra tight standards compared to when PSA originally graded the 8s.

[rats60]

I'm going to tell everyone a true story
I had over 100 sgc 88s pre war cards same set that were all graded by psa as 8s.
Pics are available..my friend hated psa and had them crossed to sgc
I bought the sgcs because they obviously were more reasonable
There were 3 huge collectors out there at one time that would buy psa 8s and tried to cross to sgc...why...I don't know. But didn't have huge success in crossing...they would resell the psa 8s and try to find better ones to get crossed to sgc 88s and had success with high grade 8s
I guess they saw a lot of shenanigans w psa in the early days.
I knew all the cards I purchased, were once psa 8s
So I sent many of them in to get crossed and remember...they were all upper 8s in PSA holders
And had not one crossed back to psa..Not one.

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It is pretty common knowledge that early on grading companies were over grading cards and now are doing a better job. Did you try to cross any of the PSA cards back to SGC 88? I don't see how they cost you money unless SGC won't regrade them at 88. In that case, you just over paid for over graded cards. Why didn't you put a minimum grade of 8 when you tried to cross back to PSA? I think that is what most would do unless you were doing a registry and just had to have them in PSA holders. I think we would all like to see scans to judge the condition for ourselves.

[ruth_rookie]

Something doesn’t add up with this Buster guy. He says he works nights, which is why he always posts when the rest of us are asleep. Yet he’s working on a high grade Cracker Jack set (PSA/SGC 8-9 from what little I can decipher). He already has “75% of the 1933 Goudey set in PSA 8 or SGC 88” including the Ruth’s. It’s none of my business, but if I had that kinda dough, I wouldn’t be working nights. In fact, I wouldn’t be working at all.

[ClementeFanOh]

I don't think so, Peter- my point was spot on. I wish I had a dollar for every "collector" who remarked they just wanted PSA cards. They don't ask about a specific card's quality, descriptions, etc- they are merely seeking the bottom line. I guess I'll grudgingly say "good for PSA", as it must be nice to be richly rewarded for incredibly spotty work; however, most folks focus on PSA strictly out of bottom line concerns. So, my point remains.

[ruth_rookie]

+1. In addition, newbies into the hobby/business are jumping on the PSA Bandwagon too by exclusively purchasing PSA, which only exacerbates the issue. I personally know of two high-income guys entering our beloved pastime and will only buy PSA. I’ve tried selling them on SGC to no avail.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think so, Peter- my point was spot on. I wish I had a dollar for every "collector" who remarked they just wanted PSA cards. They don't ask about a specific card's quality, descriptions, etc- they are merely seeking the bottom line. I guess I'll grudgingly say "good for PSA", as it must be nice to be richly rewarded for incredibly spotty work; however, most folks focus on PSA strictly out of bottom line concerns. So, my point remains.

And did PSA magically get to be more expensive in a vacuum, or did it get there because people favored them?

[Empty77]

Something doesn’t add up with this Buster guy. (...)

He also re-replies to himself often, which functions to re-activate the thread on the daily digest of newly updated threads, which is artificial, since if there were still useful points to add on the topic, others would be commenting and it could carry on of its own accord.

Also, b/w this thread and a few others I think I recall, this seems the only topic of fixation.

It seems designed just to bait people into an argument over a topic that is already well-worn...

[Johnny630]

When people say it’s not about the money don’t believe them it’s always about the money lol.

[sfh24]

I dont think anyone disputes the higher "market value" of PSA. However, the "exact same quality" of card can be had from SGC for less money which works great for those of us who use binders for raw cards.

We are able to get the same grade cards without paying top market prices.

[ClementeFanOh]

Peter- there was no magic involved, which you already knew. PSA was "first", which some people equate with being best. (You may recall a recent time in the American automotive industry when consumers bought cars simply because they were American, despite overwhelming evidence the product had deteriorated. Over time, even lots of those hard liners gave up and bought better made vehicles)…
Back to the original question, which was which grader does the reader "respect", my answer and point remains the same. I "respect" the company which actually gets the grade RIGHT a high percentage of the time and which employs good customer service as well. There will be folks who say they respect PSA more; however, that respect is almost exclusively pecuniary in nature, because the grading consistency and accuracy just ain't there. Again, 3 cheers to PSA for making truckloads of cash despite delivering mediocre product; however, that result does not equate to "respect" or "proficiency".

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me there's still an element of circularity to say people prefer PSA because it sells for more. Sales prices are a function of supply and demand, so there has to be a reason for the demand and I don't believe at this point it's just first-mover advantage, that was used up a long long time ago. I understand your perspective though.

[steve B]

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=26395

[Buster#1]

I think everyone has extremely valid points
Card collecting is fun but a stressful burden if you are doing it as a business and for the love of the hobby. Thats what I do.
I love to collect and fell in love w the 33 goudey set and 1915 cracker jack set when I took a bus to the convention center in my hometown when I was 12 yrs old and saw those gems.
1972...a ruth card was 50 bucks and I had 50 bucks in my pocket.
I cut grass and shoveled snow and saved money.
I bought a bunch of piedmont tobacco cards for one dollar each ....I was just a kid.
I remember seeing a 53 mantle in a plastic sleeve which was beautiful for 8 dollars.
If you all want to see the 109 cards that were rejected by psa as crossovers that were all psa 8s go to this website
Rgold7000 image events 1933s
I bought 109 of those cards at sgc 88 and 92
Not one crossed.
They were all psa 8s at one time
I see that the gentleman I bought the cards from has commented on my posts.
Perhaps psa is a little more strict nowadays
But u have to admit
That means collection was sweet..every card I purchased from him was an 88 or 92
And I've never talked to anyone in the hobby that is smarter than rgold7000
Everyone of his cards were pristine
He is a perfectionist
Every corner may not have been perfect but surface area and eye appeal was as good as any psa 8 in the hobby except for the 33 goudeys that just sold on heritage
That collection is the finest group of 33s I've ever seen
Everyone of those cards were high high psa 8s the rest were 9s and deserving.
So I don't mean to piss anyone off
I own restaurants so this is why I post late at night
Never leave my work until 230am



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[Buster#1]

What I can say about rgold7000 is that he is probably the smartest most knowledgeable man I've ever met in the hobby
And I have had the displeasure of meeting
Auction company owners and many others

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[Buster#1]

I'm not into poisoning the hobby and I won't say who are the bad guys
But when there is money to be made, there are bad guys.
I got screwed and learned my lesson the hard way....shame on him
But it's not going to be shame on me in the future.
Vintage sgc cards are as good as psa
And they are easily worth the same if not more
Who knows if the prices will ever correct.
Quite frankly I don't care at this point

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[Fuddjcal]

me neither... i just have the bug to buy cards and try and enjoy them knowing they are "probably" real? Unlike the 99% nice raw cards that are altered. At least you have a fighting chance in a PSA or SGC case, I think?

I'd just like to know how they crack their slabs and how they do it with out destroying the card?:D

[jchcollins]

I just read the last 3 pages of this thread since it was showing in my unread, and now I have a tremedous headache.

[Suitntieguy]

I just read the last 3 pages of this thread since it was showing in my unread, and now I have a tremedous headache.

I can appreciate this. And this is not directed at you but,...
It seems some of the laws economics are not working so well in our hobby. I postulate that collectors, by and large have created an environment where TPGs are a necessity. Too many cards have been altered and reprinted (well). Most seasoned collectors know to buy the card and not the holder but relying and third party authentication is crucial to many, especially high dollar vintage.

Yet, the most successful company is not the best. Not even close, save prices realized. It is well agreed that PSA is less consistent than SGC. Their holders are second to SGC. Their cusomter service is worse. Yet, they continue to receive a lion’s share of the submissions and realize higher prices at auction. For a number of reasons, despite the above, the buying public prefers PSA slabbed cards. They have spoken loud and clear.

I suppose there is value in the registry, but that is it. The collector universe, by and large, thinks critically and academicly about this passion and should be acting/buying according to finished product vs name recognition and marketing. But not so much. I am guilty of this too. I am sitting on a large submission. I will most likely bring it to the national this summer. For vintage I am on the fence, SGC vs PSA. SGC wins all categories. All but one. Grade for grade, they will be worth more if they are in a PSA holder. The circle will not break until there is equilibrium between prices realized.

I am asking, what will it take for that to happen? And, has that already started? It seems like there are more and more pro SGC comments on these debates lately. Can that move the needle?

[brian1961]

As someone may have already stated, "It's always all about the money."

The SGC holders and how our cards look in them are amazing, though their current one, with the loud, boldface number and blacker appearance, is not as elegant as their original forest green cert. Moreover, I enjoyed their old, unique grading scale, and became somewhat used to it. My only complaint with them, however, was the fact they very, very, rarely awarded a card with "98 Gem Mint". PSA seemed to award many more cards with GEM MINT 10. Even though this suggests SGC were "tougher" graders than PSA, I think over the years the lack of SGC "98 Gem Mint" irritated collectors. They could understand the lack of cards receiving the exceedingly rare "100 Pristine" grade. However, it was almost as rare to get the "98 Gem Mint", and after awhile, you just want to say, "nuts to SGC and their nice holders", I'll go with PSA---at least they'll give a great card "PSA 10", and their holders have been fine all along the way, never changing that much. Furthermore, ya get more money for your PSA-graded cards, so..... it becomes an easy decision.

Now, for a time, 10-12 years ago, I had to go with SGC, because they would grade some of my confirmable unique, ultra rare, over-sized items that PSA wouldn't grade. I must stress the few over-sized items I sent to SGC look magnificent in their over-sized holder, because they could custom-cut their black insert to fit the large card/flat box/ larger premium PERFECTLY!

Honestly, I've never been attracted to any master set player registry, because by its nature, you MUST collect all the items to be competitive. I don't have any intention nor interest along those lines, and it's not just because of the sheer cost. I ONLY want items that really capture my fancy, whereby I respect how they were issued and the promotion from whence they came. Moreover, I only wanted to "collect" pieces I found exceedingly beautiful, with compelling eye appeal. There's often a lot of mundane or flat-out ugly items that comprise a player set registry. I don't care if it's ultra rare; if it's ugly, I don't care---to own it. Be that as it may, if my fellow collectors choose to pursue any of PSA's set or player registries, that is great and I sincerely wish them happy collecting and fulfillment. I also think of my friend Chris De Bono, who for years aggressively hunted down as many different items of Mickey Mantle as he could. Some are professionally graded; some are not---that was not particularly important to him. What was important was getting as many different genuine Mantles issued during his career as possible. Chris has over 400, and all I can bellow is a sincere, "WOW!!!" One of his most fascinating adventures was the procurement of a 1960 Home Run Derby set (the year is correct--read chapter 8 of the E-book on a CD, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN) for the solitary reason of getting the Mickey Mantle. His strategy was to have all the cards graded by PSA, then sell the cards one by one, and keep his prized Mickey Mantle. The strategy worked brilliantly, and he patiently got all his money back, including grading fees, and essentially, got a Home Run Derby Mickey for free!!!!!! That is saying something, but I don't believe he could have achieved the same glowing results had he gone with grading his set by SGC.

The matter of PSA versus SGC has gone on and on, ad nauseam. It is important though that our hobby has three good grading companies, with Beckett being the third. At least we have a choice. Each company has its pluses, just as each company has its respective chagrin.

In the end, the principles of supply and demand, and what generates the most money will win out, far and away. I guess I've had my say, except to stress, collect and be happy, 'cause life is shorter than you think. ---Brian Powell

[Buster#1]

Excellently said

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[Buster#1]

I recently sold a group of sgc 88s that I had duplicates of...33 goudey cards.
They sold for 42 percent higher than what I paid.
I bought them less than 12 months ago
So sgc is going forward


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[Buster#1]

Well said
Very well said
Thx

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[Buster#1]

I initially wrote many comments about sgc and how much luck I had w them
Recently I purchased many t206,1915 and 33s in sgc 88 or 8 now at lower than vcp prices...I got crushed when I auctioned some of them,
And recently I have bought dozens of t206 1915 and 33s in PSA 8 at lower than vcp prices and made 200 percent at auction for some and none less than 50 percent
For example
I bought a sgc 92 54 red heart musial for way too much...it sold for almost a thousand at auction
A psa 7 in same auction fetched almost the same amount.
I can say one thing for sure.
I won't be buying sgc cards anymore.
psa cards in my opinion are a helluva alot nicer than sgc in high grades.
I never thought cards in less than a 7 or 84 so I can't comment on lower graded cards
I'm extremely disappointed in the money sgc 88s are bringing
3x less than psa


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[onlyvintage62]

Well said
Very well said
Thx

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IMO and I consider myself asavy typically neurotic collector.

SGC is a tougher grader EXCEPT for centering which I think hurts their brand.

I have crossed over cards back and forth just to experiment and SGC is tougher. Many sgc 88's came bach 8.5 and 9's.

[jchcollins]

I collect mostly midgrade, so cannot speak to the discrepancy in high grade or what prices they bring. I'm more than happy with the SGC cards I own, but am not trying to sell them at the moment. For things like corners and overall grade I have always thought they are very comparable to PSA - and their holder and customer service are several notches above.

[steve B]

For example
I bought a sgc 92 54 red heart musial for way too much...it sold for almost a thousand at auction
A psa 7 in same auction fetched almost the same amount.
I can say one thing for sure.
I won't be buying sgc cards anymore.



Sooooo…. you overpaid, and somehow it's SGCs fault?

http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=26638

Also (NSFW language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMl9oYSVGlo

[jchcollins]

Sooooo…. you overpaid, and somehow it's SGCs fault?



#Snicker. I see what he means, it's a bit surprising (and more than a bit disappointing if you need to get the $ out of them...) that NM PSA cards sell for nearly as much as NM-MT+ or higher SGC cards. But alas...this is why I collect PSA 5 and 6's.

[Buster#1]

I don't blame anyone for my decisions in buying high grade sgc vintage cards and selling within a year after purchase at a loss
I kept my favorite cards...a friend of mine told me to collect what u like and hold
I like obviously Robinson, Mays, Aaron in early years and have kept.
Mantle is out of control
What I am saying is that I've bought in the last 12 months lots of sgc 88s and psa 8s...all below vcp and I've done super on the psa cards and got my ass handed to me on sgcs
Psa is hard on corners and centering
Sgc is also but not as much...they are different...surface is one of their biggest concerns
People buy eye appeal and psa cards have much better corners and centering in general creating that.
Bottom line... it took a my hard head to realize it...
Psa is safe and u r much better owning PSA
I have talked to every major auction house in the hobby
Ask them what to buy. They will say psa by far.
Mid grade vintage sgcs at 4 are comparable to psa .
But high grades in 6 or better
Psa suffocates sgc


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[Buster#1]

Again, I have no proof per se - but just saying if a card or group of cards from a particular set is less commonly available than others, in general I would expect the PSA graded cards to sell for more than SGC.U post frequently
I do not know what u collect
But your posts are intelligent
I put comments out there to get reactions
I stir the pot to get people talking.
If u collect to have certain cards, that is really what the hobby is all about
Enjoyment.
Unfortunately, it has become a money issue..
Sucks!
I don't care about psa or sgc.
I know the sgc president and he's a frickin great guy and fair.
But if u r looking for a fair investment which any reasonable person would...sgc is probably not the way to go.
I'd wait on buying sgc unless it's a super star.
I took a bath on high grade sgc 88s..hall of famers like plank, lajoie recently but made great money on similar names at psa
Not fair.
But I would not buy a sgc card anymore unless its 50 percent less than psa smr.

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[jimmer77]

Does anyone here think SGC will ever close the gap with PSA? I buy PSA graded but submit with SGC do to the price of grading.

[jchcollins]

Does anyone here think SGC will ever close the gap with PSA? I buy PSA graded but submit with SGC do to the price of grading.

I hope they do because I think they are the better company in terms of presentation of their product, and their customer service. But I would not hold my breath. PSA got up a huge head of steam in their marketing and "desirability" early due to the introduction of the registry. The fact that they are inconsistent (tough on cards in the 1990's - easier - noticeably on vintage - in the early 2000's. Slowly tougher on everything in the early 2010's. Really and in some cases ridiculously tough on vintage after 2015...) doesn't seem to matter for whatever reason in terms of popularity and the prices their cards bring. Also they had a lot of press and publicity over grading the Gretzky Wagner back 20+ years ago - and yes, although they blew it - nobody really cared.

SGC if nothing else will maintain an even keel due to their popularity with prewar collectors and the fact that if not #1, people know they are a solid company with a good rep - and they are not hated like Beckett among vintage collectors.

[Buster#1]

I would not put raw cards in sgc if you are confident about the grade
Psa sells for 2x what sgc does sometimes higher
If u buy sgc be prepared to get sgc prices back
If u buy psa expect to get a nice percentage back overtime

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[jchcollins]

I would not put raw cards in sgc if you are confident about the grade
Psa sells for 2x what sgc does sometimes higher
If u buy sgc be prepared to get sgc prices back
If u buy psa expect to get a nice percentage back overtime

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Grading is an afterthought to me on most things and not a requirement. I buy graded (mostly PSA) online to try to reduce the risk even on midgrade, but the only company I've ever submitted to is SGC. Other places online besides this forum, and all you ever hear about are the horror stories with PSA turn times, people who haven't seen their cards for 6 months, etc, etc. I'm not signing up for that.

[Promethius88]

This is a fun, although difficult read at times....given all that is going on today.

[jchcollins]

This is a fun, although difficult read at times....given all that is going on today.

I think we are learning for a fact what many have suspected for a long time - the "professional" grading companies at times are anything but professional, and a lot of mistakes and skullduggery even sometimes sneaks through. I'd love to see PSA take a grandiose fall from this mess with PWCC and the alterations, but even now that's probably a long shot...

[bnorth]

I think we are learning for a fact what many have suspected for a long time - the "professional" grading companies at times are anything but professional, and a lot of mistakes and skullduggery even sometimes sneaks through. I'd love to see PSA take a grandiose fall from this mess with PWCC and the alterations, but even now that's probably a long shot...

I have been saying that for many many years, hopefully it finally happens.

On a good note I sold my last high dollar(to me) PSA card about a month ago.:D

[jchcollins]

I have been saying that for many many years, hopefully it finally happens.

On a good note I sold my last high dollar(to me) PSA card about a month ago.:D

Good for you. I still have a number of PSA slabs, but most are hopefully mid-grade and low dollar enough to where I should not have to worry. I hope nobody out there doctored my PSA 6.5 '70 Nolan Ryan...but who knows.

Increasingly online I go after SGC. It sucks though that there are so few choices there still compared to PSA.

[Buster#1]

PSA is the benchmark...
I have posted on here many times.
PSA cards are not generally better than sgc
PSA is hard on corners but sgc is hard on surface and eye appeal.
Corners aren't everything...
I like needle corners...
PSA has the market and sgc has alot of work to do.


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[swarmee]

Have you read any of the recent PWCC / Moser fraud threads? PSA is awful at grading cards. SGC is getting identified as passing $50,000 cards as unaltered. Would love to see your take. I'm up in the middle of the night today too.

[Buster#1]

The problem is PSA has the cool registry
Sgc doesn't
I have cracked out PSA 8 cards that I thought were 8.5 and came back as 7.5.
I've cracked out sgc 88s that came back as 7s and 8s and one 8.5
It's a frickin crap shoot guys.
PSA has become very very over the top in grading.
Mostly because they r very busy and have dummies grading cards.
Most of u folks reading this know more about grading cards than the clowns PSA has grading.
They are very busy and they suck.
Sgc will give u better service and a realistic value on your investment or hobby

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[Buster#1]

U post frequently
I do not know what u collect
But your posts are intelligent
I put comments out there to get reactions
I stir the pot to get people talking.
If u collect to have certain cards, that is really what the hobby is all about
Enjoyment.
Unfortunately, it has become a money issue..
Sucks!
I don't care about psa or sgc.
I know the sgc president and he's a frickin great guy and fair.
But if u r looking for a fair investment which any reasonable person would...sgc is probably not the way to go.
I'd wait on buying sgc unless it's a super star.
I took a bath on high grade sgc 88s..hall of famers like plank, lajoie recently but made great money on similar names at psa
Not fair.
But I would not buy a sgc card anymore unless its 50 percent less than psa smr.

Sent from my SM-G955U using TapatalkI don't know much about pwcc
My good friend has said and has decades of experience that pwcc can't be trusted
Many shenanigans
The best companies are mile high and rea
Heritage is corrupt I think too

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[Buster#1]

I have recently seen an uptick in 1933 Indian gum cards
They are the most beautiful cards in the hobby
They are extremely rare
Any thoughts?
They might be the way to go....history and very very cool.

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[Buster#1]

I saw on pwcc recently what Indian gum cards are selling for.
WOW!
I've been following them in the last year.
They are sky rocketing in price by 30x in some cases.
They are so rare and hard to find.
Supply and demand I guess.

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[VintageVinnie]

All I know right now is that if I am looking to buy an expensive, high grade card...I am not even considering it if it's in a PSA holder. Not with all this

[jchcollins]

All I know right now is that if I am looking to buy an expensive, high grade card...I am not even considering it if it's in a PSA holder. Not with all this

+1, and many collectors feel the same. For me this has led to a greater appreciation of lower grade cards again. If you have a mid-to-lower 1950's star I think for the most part both PSA and SGC are going to be safe. I really hope someone hasn't doctored a '57 Clemente from a 1 to a 3 - but for the 3 you can probably get it for $100 or less. And in many cases they still have a ton of eye appeal.

[glynparson]

Ill still be buying at the national if you have them to sell. i would prefer in this market to buy them in person though so i can make a good assessment. I'll be set up with Andy Madec please feel free to stop by with what you have for sale.

[Buster#1]

I will say
My 1933 Indian gum cards graded by sgc are unbelievable....excellent
The ones ive seen graded by psa and im only saying this set compared to psa at same grade is not even close.
I can't believe the discrepancy...
I don't know who grades Indian gum cards at psa but sgc is a much better clue.
Ive seen psa Indian cards at 5 that are 3s in sgc
In this set psa lost it.

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[Buster#1]

I was very disgusted with the pwcc/psa
News.
Im not an expert grader but have been coached by a expert....don't know if he's the best...but i would argue that he may be.
Every gosh darn mistake i made in the hobby
He warned me of and was too stupid to listen
I was so f....g lucky not to lose my ass.
He and i discussed so much over the last couple of years....like half grades and 9s compared to 8s.
My friend was so right
Really...there isn't anyone really in the hobby that can tell between a 8 or a 8.5
Or an 88 or a 92.
Just confuses collector's....no disrespect
No auction owner in this hobby can actually tell u its a 86 or an 84 or a 6.5 or a 7
I've invested 100s of thousands in cards and have not lost my ass....i just love cards and making deals....its my gambling
I don't visit casinos.
What i should have learned from my friend is that u get a good shake from sgc overall
What u pay for an sgc is honest and u get the same honest price out of it if u sell if u bought it at a avg sgc price.
PSA has been the strong and the standard
But now i believe sgc is the strong and the honest when it comes to your dollar.
I have gone back n forth w psa and sgc trying to figure it out
Sgc cards are legitimate
Most PSA cards r too.
But from now on...
I am not talking the chance.....
We r talking big big money

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[Buster#1]

I truly believe its unfortunate
I have knowledge that hundreds of psa 8s crossed to sgc 88s and when tried to cross back to psa 8s came back lower.
How can u explain that?
All the sudden the grading system changed
Makes me absolutely sick




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[bnorth]

I was very disgusted with the pwcc/psa
News.
Im not an expert grader but have been coached by a expert....don't know if he's the best...but i would argue that he may be.
Every gosh darn mistake i made in the hobby
He warned me of and was too stupid to listen
I was so f....g lucky not to lose my ass.
He and i discussed so much over the last couple of years....like half grades and 9s compared to 8s.
My friend was so right
Really...there isn't anyone really in the hobby that can tell between a 8 or a 8.5
Or an 88 or a 92.
Just confuses collector's....no disrespect
No auction owner in this hobby can actually tell u its a 86 or an 84 or a 6.5 or a 7
I've invested 100s of thousands in cards and have not lost my ass....i just love cards and making deals....its my gambling
I don't visit casinos.
What i should have learned from my friend is that u get a good shake from sgc overall
What u pay for an sgc is honest and u get the same honest price out of it if u sell if u bought it at a avg sgc price.
PSA has been the strong and the standard
But now i believe sgc is the strong and the honest when it comes to your dollar.
I have gone back n forth w psa and sgc trying to figure it out
Sgc cards are legitimate
Most PSA cards r too.
But from now on...
I am not talking the chance.....
We r talking big big money

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Who is this expert you speak of?

[Copa7]

I was never a fan of PSA before the scandal, and I'm even more weary now.

For what I collect, historically, PSA are one of the most, if not THE most incompetent grader / researchers in the hobby.

I used to keep a computer file on all the mislabeled, mistakes PSA distributed to the collecting world. Its soon became abundant in my collecting circles that PSA was very unreliable. So we agreed to shut them out. They are not familiar with the materials being submitted, but even worse, didn't do simple google to find out. (I found the cards and sets in less than 5 minutes online)

Needless to say, my interest is not financial, so I will not speak of which company is a better investment except that if you are buying PSA cards that are counterfeit or even worse, fantasy cards, it's your mistake. Caviat Emptor.


I'm playing it safe as PSA has a good possibility of becoming worthless property (yes, I know they have die hard supporters, but so did Hitler and Stalin.) I'm selling off my PSA to those die hard supporters. Yes, I'm profiting from their zeal.

I won't be stuck with tarnished goods.

I'll also be glad to share my finding to anyone who comes to the National. (ask for booth and contact through pm)

Happy hunting

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who is this expert you speak of?

He sounds formidable. :D:D:D

[Oscar_Stanage]

I am preparing a submission of about 25 cards, some 33 Goudeys, T206, and a bunch of 50s and 60s HOFers- Mantles, Aarons and others.

I decided on SGC as they seem to be on par with PSA in pre-war and 60s. And overall, I prefer a lot of things about SGC. However, as I am recording my expected grades and looking up values, I noticed some cards have large discrepancies from PSA.

For example, a 1938 Goudey Heads up Bump Hadley.... I look up 5s, 6s and 7s and there has not been an SGC recorded sale on any of these - EVER. Plenty for PSA. Now, I do not plan on selling anytime soon, but is it not a problem that that there is literally no sale activity on their cards other than the superstars? I guess this stems from lack of registry?