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TanksAndSpartans
08-25-2016, 07:05 AM
I stumbled on this in SCD this week:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hunt-casterline-pro-football-hall-of-fame-card-collection-exhibit-to-open-/

There's two videos on the page along with the write up. I suspect every HOF rookie isn't the highest graded though - the Nagurski PSA 9 came to mind right away as one I don't think they have. The other thing I wondered is whether or not the collection is all mainstream - sounded like it. And if Joe Horrigan doesn't know a lot about football cards - I wonder if he scratched his head at all when they told him Namath was the most valuable and not Baugh or someone like that :)

rjackson44
08-25-2016, 09:30 AM
very cool

jefferyepayne
08-25-2016, 02:47 PM
I stumbled on this in SCD this week:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hunt-casterline-pro-football-hall-of-fame-card-collection-exhibit-to-open-/

There's two videos on the page along with the write up. I suspect every HOF rookie isn't the highest graded though - the Nagurski PSA 9 came to mind right away as one I don't think they have. The other thing I wondered is whether or not the collection is all mainstream - sounded like it. And if Joe Horrigan doesn't know a lot about football cards - I wonder if he scratched his head at all when they told him Namath was the most valuable and not Baugh or someone like that :)

I saw this. Impressive collection but definitely some inaccuracies in the article. There is no way that Namath is worth more than the PSA 9 Nags. Period. End of Story. Horrigan seems to have taken what they told him at face value without checking facts.

jeff

robertcasterline
08-25-2016, 07:21 PM
As one of the owners, I feel its only correct to respond.

Lets see the collection before throwing out your opinion.
The Nagurski 9 was never sold at auction, Therefore it is impossible to confirm an actual sale price.
In the last 6 months, Other football cards have privately sold for over 300K. Including a 1965 Namath PSA 9.
The true documented most valuable football card as of now is the 1957 Unitas.
It accurately sold at a recognized auction for 151K.

I am not sure what you mean by mainstream?
It is the All time Highest graded complete rookie card set along with thousands of other high graded rare cards.

Lets face it, The Nagurski is a great card. We have two Psa 8s in the collection, But it will never be a baseball Wagner. Time will really only tell if it ever shows up at auction. Then we would really know for sure.

Robert Casterline

Stevew
08-25-2016, 08:57 PM
It's undoubtedly a tremendous collection. I have the #4 Dallas Cowboys Hall of Fame set and am in awe of your Cowboys set - which does have every Cowboys Hall of Famer in the highest grade available - let alone the rest of the collection.

I'm personally looking forward to going to see the display at the Hall of Fame and wanted to say thank you for putting a portion of the collection on public display.

TanksAndSpartans
08-25-2016, 08:59 PM
As one of the owners, I feel its only correct to respond.

Lets see the collection before throwing out your opinion.



This seems like an unnecessarily unfriendly reply to a thread that was sharing information on your collection. Which opinion offended you so much that you saw the need to join the board? I apologize if my post didn't stroke your ego enough, but I don't think I've ever been anything but friendly and encouraging towards other collectors - at least until now.

The website says:

Hunt and Casterline built an amazing assemblage of these rookie cards that includes the highest graded card available for each member of the Hall of Fame.

If the PSA 9 Nagurski isn’t in the collection, then the collection doesn’t contain the highest graded of every rookie card. That's not an opinion. It's an observation that there is a factual misstatement. Where do you even see an opinion on the collection in this thread other than complimentary ones?

By mainstream I meant some collectors aren’t all that excited by the hobby defined rookie cards. For example 1955 cards of Don Hutson and Benny Friedman aren’t exactly period pieces. I was wondering if there are items in the collection like those displayed in this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=201392

Ultimately everyone should collect what makes them happy, regardless of the opinion of others, but for some collectors it isn’t about most expensive, for some it is. Good luck on getting the Nagurski - I hope you can pick it up for less than 151K - like you said there's no way to confirm the prior sale prices....

robertcasterline
08-25-2016, 09:32 PM
John

A small miss statement doesn't mean you need to pick apart the whole collection.
Yes, Joe from HOF meant highest rated set. Not every highest graded card.
Thank you for bringing that to our attention.
We are only missing a few.

Just go see it, Then comment.

Complete 1935 Chicle set-High grade.
Complete Mayo set
Complete psa 8 including checklist 1957 set.

My last post, So I will let you get the last word.

robertcasterline
08-25-2016, 09:34 PM
steve w

Thanks for complement.
It was really a major commitment that we are proud to share with fans.

Robert

robertcasterline
08-25-2016, 09:43 PM
Yes

As to your link.
The show includes


Complete 1931 Walker cleaner set in binder
Star candy cards
Mayfair candy cards
Spalding football cards
Nagurski Dixi ice cream lid PSA 8
Grange Shotwell cards
Kellogs cards
Complete Topps Magic photos

Its not so mainstream.

TanksAndSpartans
08-25-2016, 10:59 PM
Robert, I don't see any of these mentioned in the link:

Complete 1931 Walker cleaner set in binder
Star candy cards
Mayfair candy cards
Spalding football cards
Nagurski Dixi ice cream lid PSA 8
Grange Shotwell cards
Kellogs cards
Complete Topps Magic photos

That's why I asked. Are others seeing these mentioned? I see this:

"Featured sets include the 1894 Mayo’s Cut Plug set, the first to focus solely on football players. Also included is the 36-card 1935 National Chicle Football Set, considered to be the “Holy Grail” of football sets, and the 1957 Topps Card Set that includes a “who’s who” of future Hall of Famers."

Mayo, Chicle, and 57 Topps which are all mainstream sets. I'm glad you mentioned those items are in there - that brings out information we wouldn't have had.

I don't think misstatements on the website are going to deter people from seeing the collection - that really wasn't my point - but the write-up had a few elements that weren't great, so I mentioned one of them - so what. The point was - here's an amazing collection on display at the HOF - take a look. But I don't think you got that as the point of my initial post.

Here are some statements I didn't mention from the website's write-up:

1. "A rookie card is not necessarily indicative of the player’s first year, but more specifically the first card issued with his likeness."

But that isn't what the HOF rookie set on the PSA registry is - those are all mainstream cards - the earliest is from '33 and there are some HOFers not represented which doesn't seem right - but I didn't mention any of that in my initial post because I wasn't trying to be negative.

2. "Most in the collector industry consider the 1965 JOE NAMATH rookie card as the single-most-valuable."

So that hinges on the fact that the Nagurski PSA 9 didn't sell at auction? - just seems like a technicality to me. Like it was brought up so your collection would have the most expensive card - who cares about that anyway? So I didn't mention that one either.

I'm glad you thanked Steve - that was a nice thing to do. If your first post had thanked me for starting a thread informing people (although a couple months late), that your collection was on display, I'm guessing the exchange would have been different.

Hot Springs Bathers
08-26-2016, 07:43 AM
Robert the collection is amazing! Thank you very much for putting it on display to the public.

We passed through Canton two weeks ago and it made for a great stop at the Hall of Fame. I will also add that the entire Hall is wonderful. They still have a bi to go to match the presentation at Cooperstown but it is light years ahead of where it was on my first visit in 1989.

The card collection is breath taking. Like well over 90 percent of collectors in this hobby I could care less about TPG's and slabs but the quality of these cards is magnificent.

Thanks again for making it available and congrats to the HOF for a great job.

robertcasterline
08-26-2016, 12:33 PM
Mike,

Really makes me happy to hear you enjoyed the collection. The designer hit a home rum when it came to putting the cards in-between glass.
I really had no idea how they were going to exhibit the cards.

I do understand the slab controversy, I just am happy they do it because otherwise I wouldn't want anyone touching my cards for any type of display.

I do agree that the HOF really is stepping it up, The Game of Life Hologram theater was amazing. It was my boys favorite thing to see. I think they are tired of my football cards and obsessive hobby.

Thank you again for kind words.

Robert

bbcemporium
08-26-2016, 02:35 PM
Robert, simply amazing the collection you've put together. How long will it be on display at the HOF?

robertcasterline
08-26-2016, 03:11 PM
The collection will display at HOF for 8 months, Then they are planning to travel it for 6-7 years.
Then it may end up staying at the HOF.
Interactive displays will be added along with another large group of cards.

Dan Hunt and I put together to be viewed and enjoyed. Were happy that we were able to do it prior to the big jump in card prices.

Thank you for complement.

Exhibitman
08-31-2016, 12:48 PM
Any plans to travel it to SoCal? I probably won't get to Ohio.

Does it have the 1926 Spalding Benny Friedman. I've not seen one in person.

robertcasterline
08-31-2016, 03:18 PM
I would love to see it go to Southern California.
No schedule has been set quite yet.
Don't have the 1926 Benny. Its a great card and same here, I haven't seen one in
person.

Stevew
08-31-2016, 04:11 PM
Robert, if I might inquire of a few things if you don't mind:

Did you collect cards growing up and come back to the hobby when you decided to assemble the collection with Mr. Hunt?

Any childhood favorites in the collection that you were particularly excited to acquire?

Any favorite cards in the set you'd like to share and what about them you enjoy the most?

It's always enlightening to hear about some of the personal touches in relation to the tremendous collection assembled. Thank you.

robertcasterline
08-31-2016, 09:33 PM
Steve

Wow!!

Great questions.
SMR is doing a 5 page article next month. I don't want to sound redundant, but I will answer the best I can.

I absolutely collected baseball and football. I would go to flea markets and talk to the older guys that collected for years.
I didn't buy packs in the 80s thank goodness and would save every penny to buy one good card like Ernie Banks rookie or a Frank Gifford rookie card.
Most would not have graded high, But I loved them and wanted to learn everything about their career.

Favorite
Ted Williams and Sandy Kofax 1957 cards.
Loved them more then anything.

My Terry Bradshaw rookie card
Paid 200.00
Probably would grade a PSA 3, But I saved for it and also loved it.

My collection now
Hmmm..

When I got my 1948 Bednarik PSA 8, I was the final card needed to have all cards in HOF set a PSA 8 and higher. It was bitter sweet because the journey was pretty much over, But the accomplishment was amazing.
Favorite cards
1935 Chicle..Cool as it gets.


I met Jimmy Johnson at the past HOF induction and got to talk to him about his career and Rookie card.
I said to him
It looked like you were holding a baby..
He couldn't stop laughing.

They are the best moments in everything that Dan Hunt and I have been able to do.

Cant tell you how much I appreciate these questions.
Thank you

jefferyepayne
09-01-2016, 05:58 AM
Don't have the 1926 Benny. Its a great card and same here, I haven't seen one in
person.

That Friedman card is tough, tough, tough! Only card from his playing days that I'm aware of.

This is the area of "rookie" cards that I struggle with. Having a 1955 football card be considered someone's rookie card who last played in 1934 is a joke. I understand why the powers that be might have done this but it's still pretty ridiculous in my book.

jeff

robertcasterline
09-01-2016, 09:20 AM
Jeff

I agree that it is a true rookie card.
Do we know if the cards were distributed nationally or regionally?

I own a few, Not Friedman's.
They are probably one of the only cards that I think would be easily forged.
Black and white with thin paper.
Not trying to ignite an argument, But boy are the tiny cheap,thin pieces of paper.

revmoran
09-01-2016, 11:44 AM
I love the Spalding set because it has a few players you just can't find in any other set - most notably for me, Ed Weir, a great All American from Nebraska who was on the NFL Champions Frankford Yellow Jackets in 1926 with my father. I once owned the Grange from the set but sold it to a devoted collector - in part to buy a guitar and in part because I gave up getting the Friedman which would have completed the football set for me. I think it would be easy to spot counterfeits if you used a loupe and examined the half-tone pattern in the photo reproduction - it's an old style that would be hard to duplicate without a period printing press, in my opinion.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8474/29308546271_02045c804d_z.jpg

I have to content myself with just a scan of Friedman - another teammate of my dad on the Giants.

https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8428/29099813890_8ee08d4aa1.jpg

I would love to see this collection at the Hall of Fame, but if not I hope to catch it in its travels. It would be nice if in the upcoming 100th Anniversary of the NFL the cards could spark some additional interest in the history of the pro game - especially the teams before WW II.

finalscore
09-01-2016, 03:28 PM
Robert, what an amazing undertaking and collection. I can't think of a better venue than the Hall of Fame for display.

In regards to the 1926 Spalding Football and the Friedman card - I acquired my 26 Friedman back in the late 80's. The card was really in rough shape and had a hole-punch in one corner (I think the cards could be redeemed for prizes as I have seen a number of hole-punched Spalding's over the years). I always thought I would be able to upgrade the card but never had the opportunity. Definitely one tough card!

revmoran
09-01-2016, 04:01 PM
I'm going to start a thread on the 26 Spalding set - I still have questions and don't want to derail the focus on the Hunt/Casterline Pro Football Hall of Fame Card Collection -

clamendo
09-01-2016, 04:33 PM
We'll I always thought Ed Kabala got the best of me on when I traded him a 1934 Nagurski Diamond Matchbook (only known) for this Friedman (later graded by me).

I agree with Jeff. If a PSA-9 (which three exist and probably a few more) goes for $6910. What is a 1926 Spalding PSA-7 (29 years earlier) worth? Which card would you guys want in your collection if both were available.

I guess the there is more demand for the 1955 AA Friedman and it is "collectible" and can be sent in to PSA, etc for grading. Where my card is not collectible, sometimes you can outsmart the collector.

What about a 1967 Royal Castle Dolphin Bob Griese, or for a matter of fact a 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle?

revmoran
09-01-2016, 05:45 PM
Was this yours, Carl? Again, I have to be content with the scan, although I did get the Hewitt full book on eBay a while back and it's the only one I've seen.

https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7509/29314214941_7fc4c30fa4_o.jpg https://c3.staticflickr.com/9/8495/28769617634_09fac4d961.jpg

clamendo
09-01-2016, 05:47 PM
Yes


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clamendo
09-01-2016, 06:03 PM
What about this Benny? 1935 Tough to get enough border to get a numerical grade.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/598a12a805c54ac9d3517ae9d6db7bd8.jpg


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jefferyepayne
09-02-2016, 04:21 AM
Jeff
I agree that it is a true rookie card.
Do we know if the cards were distributed nationally or regionally?


Hi Robert. Good question.

From the correspondence I've seen between Sports Company of America and some of the athletes they were courting to be part of this set, the plan was for national distribution. They talk about 'spreading sports information across the country'. I don't know if anyone knows for sure how successful they were at accomplishing this goal.

jeff

jefferyepayne
09-02-2016, 04:27 AM
I think it would be easy to spot counterfeits if you used a loupe and examined the half-tone pattern in the photo reproduction - it's an old style that would be hard to duplicate without a period printing press, in my opinion.


Yeah, I agree with Mike on this one. The printing technique is such that it would be very easy to identify counterfeits with a loupe ... a vintage collectors best friend ;-)

Also, the paper fiber might be difficult to duplicate and finding paper that doesn't have any whitener might be a problem as well.

jeff

clamendo
09-02-2016, 06:33 AM
I had most of them in my hand at one time and they were all the same, mostly the Ad Backs. No on cared about Benny Friedman 15 years ago like they do now.

Usually people will counterfeit something that is single-sided (blank back) or something that has wide appeal and easy to sell. People were counterfeiting Pete Rose Rookies.

Plus PSA graded them all like Robert's collection.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/e5be1ba1fc24c8b20b571f58fb64c971.jpg


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robertcasterline
09-02-2016, 12:24 PM
The information is amazing.
Thanks again for welcoming me into the discussion.

Any info on 1930 Rogers Peet football cards? I am searching for one for collection.
I would love to see images.


Robert

revmoran
09-02-2016, 01:33 PM
That set has eluded me as well, but I do have two scans - and I was able to buy a wire photo used on the Ken Strong card.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8248/29410750375_b729e65dc3.jpg https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8110/29410724515_88f268f3f7_o.jpg

[https://c7.staticflickr.com/9/8164/29302231542_77d29fd885_o.jpg

jefferyepayne
09-02-2016, 01:58 PM
The information is amazing.
Thanks again for welcoming me into the discussion.

Any info on 1930 Rogers Peet football cards? I am searching for one for collection.
I would love to see images.
Robert

I'm missing the Grange but have the others. Let me know if these scans don't work as I'm having trouble with Google Photos.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_HHdeG2gLfoWa76imYMEno6VKDEIL5vOy7hWainq4GZQp1UT43 GJX3ccpDWzMdIsB5tKo5BFJ3jMOEtspGZqGGe6wX6ZKQ5iV_Be OUOeoOxhUgO70IvV-OoU8HgQK6_mjjgSlKpPOLwFMAcYo2Tl_CXvR_EpYFTH8oxjD6j m0CONQ6tph0KDg_-9HxM9XhQS3BYSUT6S6vE1AA4OEpR1AVaQ4F1OW7VTcS5vPZstV CjppYifgurrDFHbgzUisxZUlCiXUkm7beuafLNq0BAbMsV_fwX Ydbrcx4R307p37JDX9kXrKA2xqimWP56tlPNvscotMzdPj6Pr7 S-foy2IWNUiYQNAPse9AZme0vRUJRycebwasb5DA-mYHWaYvaZHG8CgUxAX3rV77Ey8zPnBzxvEBPS7gL1DigTiP4Kl _j7xaZ-TrHjj210utUmI7GbyenbAophFJ1SXf9D_5biDG8PDPkVkQNF3H BFPc6jshRdVtDxzE0wyxH52q69MfXiZny1oBc3RK4WZZFo8yzM mGtaX_e9_0p3L-bpdamtt0k1Orhv8DshU-xbJV0_DdALqQaaxTs3j0W7FckgpR2-WIXi3zZvUrNx4LeACCZzqkh_tLquX=w381-h640-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/2CfEMCZtn9J85Ti94yZnE-2qj6S4h6mFPGgh72t9w_d9cfv28PZlQxZVxomA4X3MmdJ-1sISCZ1JX_-4QnmmFqQYrbIu7pnzAiwR5CV6LiAsWHF14KY0JgBN9D5MSDPwW IHDZrMSvKu6iebfLFU1CY0-ef2mOUHTlqNo7A-mHowO7tcPogCt0gsA3IAisiuQAdJ2kfBIHHIMXBJd30YSOkHfo DV5dasX2bP4ur7n7L-niKTD-wW0gaHhKA7G5zLakHY4HxY0jEEk2RUivewns8dR5nfEZuc3FcB 3DWuVdRvdnaHj8HOSapXBS_4k04Dp5UiYyLJ3C2wTJJkIawzzp fYLwCtoxtDCucvyL8OxvsodYOs8In3oDV52Nd59VRHioog0Vr0 8zFu6TB0NzMbB8FZFI0SyiDNANtFMfb6PiaXpW3T3o4vEHZlMc 8KSj4_-RMOhCooMB01fdXW9LNeFu1pRwPNVyxzOLna9gfLNbabHF7wREU InjlxlPhOcNxKrx_zzEZGbCxoVSmHvockp7jgcIpyIY5hfVzTQ 1QvmID2I4DmYASlBBVjEFnIgM2Ewe0zctrpS0OiS2UPHP-eNeH6AheHM4G1ffOrgIiV1iPL5gmZt=w381-h640-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mmz-hllZZsSUADsbJkWXTP6Gix_EFAA-i-igUSZJ7IAxCDQXHt7GrRINMnBmnUZMehpPcf5gvFtyJ4RclfTf 5J8G_J0bUTB110Uyx5oBgNngIQ4Nlnb_xV7mnJcD3amC2svtpF 8xiDX36OBnDI701R2RGy7uK-3jGtKIjBHMpln_5EustOHHl71H8GzVHgFbpv0li0_esTArny5L cyzUCh7FET2g4CaQc0aQl7HAPrq2ngMgduwMGXF-eIkoThha3SbnoTPUFo2EnLDBgKojaw6WDlq5y6I68SpXHHyjas ALpPxk8kHitNmSrw08456QerT4sQjudxlGuZEjTayWuMPLuydV v0tv86BLoyniIOBvV5-HrzyAEnaNfiXKEhlEq5joAtrAs-VwpEkXNp4nsnTDHXn_QCPaLDFy__ehkKpQkkvLEduUmhStQSlk 3NMyNYX92Auz0sX55L9oDmXRzzt7zOouYOpdiGI2N4CDpImxfc OVGXPTqD6FbdfWv3-jvDQrLvbddMSOiQBzWAEPQx-9l79kZuJ1vjoEukh0TQiYSx3pSjAhb1eZsm8L5iNKAA4I70YOQ WFWD1MzmfLBYQhe2d44sEJEDdfXCvvwYdUvEtYq=w378-h640-no

The Strong is one of my top 10 favorite cards!

jeff

jefferyepayne
09-02-2016, 02:02 PM
Good point about the Friedman Wheaties, Carl! How could I forget about that item?

Here is my Friedman.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8q8Bg1bftkKmzSCxACvOyrOrPXrcaxyyOJ9uPDXjy4_Y3Q04EO OMv5soiPQg8ovMxh-j7icjUPx1i-iLykOpChGNOvnLSy14Q78m28cU7cDbhAjOXhuMlBnvKciuvMCT fxIin4-HvbzKaEQTClawSCK1zV-uQGzohP7iSrOybfT21UsZ9AqSmpWGRArAn77zJFDzLo2biTWvv XbCDzqlwx_2TBuFdKGdSYTcw7lzJqGdBZA6F0ZPUryq-SH6-WRyvHZFoQEq4v74F6R5vMxj6aAX5MRyK3Aff7MIpGvqn3hAQao dsbrYRf-hOc-9qUlCgN73Nw7rUrOSJW8Hozf5kAgHRRWABeKATbq87xIaGQdnT lrJMBZPe49oYKkL4-be5TCSsk8uEL-xE8so_mj7tO243lru3akiiUo1o5xs1qdeJebHa97EbMTeCpT0T OX-ViQKd0juBVDCKe8Fep1Nc7G37enZf-FYoxNlwq4Y-hsvC7AogL63uZTaTyo5S9Sr7LQokKhSjwTft8chkedJVrE3Yaj N1Qiao5550GM3wVZgG4thIZ6i0ahlW5xstaAncaljxluMp4txt KzTw9EfDy0A3hNyXZ7NZDB2zqzQUyU76XIC=w468-h743-no

And the exceedingly rare Thorpe!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qLY2l6278O4ATU5kfZwuCIM37-ikzkhad03AfLiqlqQd8crCIRyg9_L3fTS4nuv9nKrVQjaAp9WI OTnfXIOJd1OpQ4qWwhBslAO5DT3Li3mGqkZCr4wn1_qsKxyb-xaE6E-PaxyG02XmuPpIgP4Qf5Kmp56AXeIOwczgrqbkty6fCd0k7lfPf YpxJQfJ5O6Kgpk8m730Ud1LJqz8v4ju-1kmh3MzegADR_sXRPj3Yp496BcC5gZixNLkyidlmCiIxYhvFGS ymlpFScBYJSk6_b4hOjE9yBW7OhNjGKERFVGgduzuCiMzQ6tW7 tSXFKqlrQAAN1Br0hxYGT6r4GXQkLnfku6MqjiGrKxsymcRCW-0Jyfvcz84hyHd9y-jyNGwi9r4K7aGF3lOMeXMyFVnYsDE15Zm2y7Be9xXn6GHwE2t6 Z7aJN9TbL3sO75DYqS9FdKQRljp9UdWFFt9Bi5nGoK6at7RziH Eyem5xahqW2a68ozm5QRufPZpczkFLGwrjAHhE2SI1Etwpm2vB ZQQVEAR6VvVbzMg3jZ2Vravg19TVBBy3TWKeZvqknaGXmnW0gD CsfkXkcaWKiezFdc0hsup0bu9xC8D4jz3mE-QDjmdwXL_=w486-h686-no

jeff

clamendo
09-02-2016, 04:43 PM
Nice photoshop


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clamendo
09-02-2016, 04:56 PM
Here's th album and the grange http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/9bcdfb4c50e81bb71fa63c4a6bf3db6d.jpg


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