Will anyone be giving a blow-by-blow account from the National this year?

[Howe’s Hunter]

Know in the past there has been a thread set up to do that. Sorry if I just missed it, but since I can't be there, would like to see any uploads of photos or videos shot while there.

Thanks, attendees. Good luck.

[Stonepony]

Yeah I'd like to see/hear if there's anything interesting.

[Huck]

Yeah I'd like to see/hear if there's anything interesting.

Ditto!

The Bill Simmons reports from his Grantland days are good reads!

http://grantland.com/features/2014-national-sports-collectors-convention/

[Tennis13]

Alright, so here is a brief (i mean long) summary of tonight and what I saw in a quick 2 hour tour (new baby, so getting out was a homerun from the wife). I usually spend nearly 2 full days browsing, this was 2 hours:

1). I collect 1933 Goudeys and 1934 Goudey Gehrig's, but have learned so much from you all the past year, so I was more up to speed on stuff I saw. Overall, very disappointed with the overall 1933 selection. One guy, though, had the market cornered on the medium end 1933 and 1934 Ruth/Gehrig, with a few higher end ones as well. I bought a 1934 Gehrig from him. Aside from him and the auction houses of course, i saw one 1933 yellow Goudey Ruth 7 for sale and that was it. Last year I saw 1 Gehrig sgc 7/84 1934 which I bought on the last day. Outside of auction houses, this higher end stuff harder to Find, I have to be honest, in 1933/1934 Goudey.

2). I saw one guy who just owned the Caramel Cards. The red ones. He had a lot of them, so if you are looking for those, they will be there. Same with the 206 stuff. I saw those a lot. I sort of feel like an outsider not collecting those on this forum.

3). There is a very big dealer who has a very big table every year. I was very disappointed with his Gehrig/Ruth selection from my 2 years to now. He must have sold most of his stuff and is unwilling to replenish at current prices. Also it seems like the 1933 Gehrig isn't appreciating at the lower-mid range like some other cards. I dont love this card, hence my move to 1934 ones.

4). Lots of chatter--remember I was there for 2 hours so it's relative-- about the increase in price of some Koufax and Clmente and Mantles. Like the guys that have been around a long time --not me obviously-- are sort of dumbfounded. Not sure how many of those guys are you guys on the board. (I was wearing an obnoxiously bright orange Rafael Nadal shirt today, in case I met some of you. ). So i am not sure if they echo your sentiment, or it was your sentiment expressed in person.

5). I wanted to pull the trigger on some modern wax boxes: 1983 topps baseball and maybe 1985 fleer baseball. Because 83 was one year before I started to collect, and I always liked 1983 and 1984 topps cards. It seemed that that early to mid-80s stuff is sort of getting into a sweet spot. It wasn't cheap, but not expensive either. But i would venture to guess it has appreciated as well recently. I was surprised how much I wanted this stuff, but I didn't buy any of it. You could convince me to spend like $10,000 on this stuff and vault it for 7 years and double or triple your money as guys like me get nostalgic.

6). I don't know how the modern guys do it. My eyes glaze over, and there is just no way to easily display everything. As a Cubs fan, I wanted a Contreras and a Baez card, but I was so confused as to why something was $15 vs $60 vs $100 and didn't even grt into the 4-figure stuff. Its also so damn hard to display that I cant find anything easily. It's like a supermarket where the beer is shelved next to the swiffers and then the next aisle has the swiffer next to the pet food with the beer on the farthest aisle. None of it makes sense, and it's never in the same place twice. It gives me a headache to try to get to the bottom of it all and get organized. One guy has an awesome assortment of 2010-2016 baseball unopend boxes which I love, but I need someone to explain which one to buy to get a shot at my favorite Cubs best cards. Kris Bryant. Kris Bryant. Kris Bryant. It almost makes me want to barf how much stuff people have of his, except he's not a Yankee.......yet. So I will keep my food down for the time being.

7). People were dragging, wondering how they were going to make it to 8 pm I heard this on multiple tables. So not sure what their day looked like before 4 pm when it opened to public, but multiple people were tired by 7:30-ish.

8). Random story of the day: some dudes seemed to be travelling with a bunch of Joe Namath rookies. Not sure why. Only told this second hand, then I saw them and confirmed it.

9). This is my third national. Two years ago I saw so much of my dad's 1950s-1960s cards that I figured they'd never go up. So take these comments with a grain of salt. I will say that the third time around, I have gone from overwhelmed and bright eyed to a bit more of a steely assassin, and I don't know how I feel about that. I didn't buy a vintage Cubs pennant or a Northwestern University mini silk thingy and I would have in prior years.

10). There seem to be a ton of like 1978/1979 Topps baseball boxes. The white ones with red and blue. Was there some sort of case break in that in last few years? Lotsa authenticated boxes going from $1200 to $1600. I saw two 1986 Fleer Basketball unopened boxes.

11). Garbage Pail Kids are sort of my dirty little secret, and I only saw one Series 2 authenticated box about 10% premium to ebay prices. There was the occasional pack of Series 3 and 14, but not much else. I bet none of you give a flying you knw what about that.

Ok, sorry if this rambled. This is just my view from the cheap seats.

[Leon]

Thanks for the update, Tennis13. Much appreciated...

[4815162342]

Thanks for the update, Tennis13. Much appreciated...


+1 Thanks for posting, Tennis!

[HexsHeroes]

.

Tennis13, actually, your observation on item #13 (Garbage Pail Kids) was well received here, as I have a 11 year old godson who has been collecting them for the past 4-5 years. So he will appreciate the update. Who knows, maybe on my next return trip to a mid-west National, I will bring him along and together we can hunt GPK packs and cards :-)

[Tennis13]

.

Tennis13, actually, your observation on item #13 (Garbage Pail Kids) was well received here, as I have a 11 year old godson who has been collecting them for the past 4-5 years. So he will appreciate the update. Who knows, maybe on my next return trip to a mid-west National, I will bring him along and together we can hunt GPK packs and cards :-)

One of my biggest regrets is not pulling trigger on a series 1 box on ebay in 2002 for $600.

[gnaz01]

Thanks for the update, Tennis13. Much appreciated...

+2 great observations

[bobbyw8469]

+2 great observations

+3. I wonder what the Joe Namath "group" was doing?? Are they trying to sell them? How many did they have?

[Tennis13]

+3. I wonder what the Joe Namath "group" was doing?? Are they trying to sell them? How many did they have?

I didn't personally see the stack. I saw the guys. I was told 30. But I don't have personal confirmation.

[Joshwesley]

Finally another tennis fan (I'm a teaching pro)..

Great account of the national and thanks!

[ullmandds]

+3. I wonder what the Joe Namath "group" was doing?? Are they trying to sell them? How many did they have?

id guess the joe namath group is doing the same thing as the sandy koufax group and the roberto clemente group!!!!

[Northviewcats]

A lot of effort went into your post, Tennis13. Especially after spending time on the floor at Nationals. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

Joe

[Tennis13]

A lot of effort went into your post, Tennis13. Especially after spending time on the floor at Nationals. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

Joe

No problem. I was a journalism major in college, so I just cranked it out in between waiting tables.......I love going to the national and given that I work in finance, I am so curious about the market segmentation that seems to be occuring. The ability to restrict supply in some of these cards is so intriguing to watch.

[mechanicalman]

I decided not to go for the first time since I got back into collecting four years ago, and I have a bit of regret, so I will have to live vicariously through these posts. Hopefully others will paint as colorful a picture as Tennis.

Interesting comment on the Goudeys. I've been trying to assemble mid grade HoF sets for both 33 and 34, and I'm finding the available supply to be a lot less comparable to other issues. Whether it's the major AHs, PWCC, or everyday eBay offerings, it just seems that not a lot is popping up.

That said, great pick-up on that Gehrig. Really nice looking for the grade!

[Huck]

I enjoyed the post. Ramble on!

[Steve D]

Great post; thank you Tennis13 :)

Regarding the Namath RC, it's another card that seems to be being manipulated. Between PWCC, Heritage, Mile High, Memory Lane, and maybe some other recent auctions, I have never seen so many PSA 7/8/9s offered over so short a period.


Steve

[tennisguy]

Was there when it opened at 10 and left the show around 1. It was nice to see and chat with Glyn P.,Scott B., Richard M., and Bill Z. of Shoebox cards. Walked right by many tables of modern and 50' and 60' topps tables. I was only really interested in looking at 19th century and pre-war. Which there was a decent amount of I thought. When I say "look" that's all I did. Didn't buy a thing.

Enjoyed chatting with the boys at REA. Brian D. is always a class-act. He immediately handed me a Net54 pin, which is really cool and well done. I did find some dealers and some auction house employees rude. Especially, when you are considering consigning something and are asking them a question and they can't even focus on you. Even striking up conversations with passersby.

Definitely quality material of all era's of baseball on the floor.

[GasHouseGang]

Great post; thank you Tennis13 :)

Regarding the Namath RC, it's another card that seems to be being manipulated. Between PWCC, Heritage, Mile High, Memory Lane, and maybe some other recent auctions, I have never seen so many PSA 7/8/9s offered over so short a period.


Steve

Didn't someone post a fake Namath Rookie on the board that was in a PSA holder? I'd be concerned if someone was offering me Namath rookie cards in high grade and large quantity. This same thing happened at one of the early National's when the Rose rookie was first hot and someone made some really convincing fakes. Several dealers bought them and were offering them at their tables. Later it was discovered they were fakes. Several dealers lost some pretty good money. I've seen some of these Rose rookies still floating around with FAKE stamped across the back.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Enjoyed chatting with the boys at REA. Brian D. is always a class-act. He immediately handed me a Net54 pin, which is really cool and well done. I did find some dealers and some auction house employees rude. Especially, when you are considering consigning something and are asking them a question and they can't even focus on you. Even striking up conversations with passersby.

I'm a big customer service grumpy old man and Brian blew me away. I was talking via with him via email about consigning a T205 common in NM 7 with REA. I walk up to the table with the card out and Brian walks over and says "Scott Russell!" Like we're old friends. We've never met, he just knew by the card I was holding who I must be. Now how many people was he expecting to meet this weekend? I didn't have a time set up or anything, he just pays that much attention to customer service. In my mind I hadn't committed to consigning it until that moment. That was a deal-maker as opposed to so many in the hobby who treat you so poorly that it's a deal-breaker. AND he remembered to give me my pin even though I forgot to ask for it!

Kept missing Brent at PWCC, but talked to a couple other guys with them. I was helping a friend consign a gorgeous 86 fleer basketball set and 79 Topps hockey set a PSA 8 1965 Mantle and a PSA 7 Seaver Rookie. I had talked with Brent about it all via email, but the other guys at the booth were great. I gotta say they do seem honestly passionate about trying to do the right thing and they do understand that being the only guys who have ebay's ear is a very big deal. Felt very good after walking away from them

PSA had a huge line for submissions, SGC was looking for something to do.

Hmmm the only guy I know at SGC was at someone else's booth when I walked by. I called his name just to let him know I was there and he gave me the "just a minute" finger (I double checked because I often get the other finger) and that was fine, I didn't expect him to stop what he was doing to come talk to me. So I waited patiently. He finished talking to the guy and then turned his back on me and walked away. This is a guy who has been courting my business for several months now, trying to convince me to switch my grading from PSA to SGC. Guess not.

Bumped into a bunch of guys I know and even gave someone an intro to Net54.

All in all a good time.

[CharleyBrown]

For those that went today, how was the selection of Jackie Robinson cards/items? Was hoping to go today, but I wasn't able to make it. Debating on going tomorrow.

[scottglevy]

Scott,

I'd like to meet you. I'm Scott as well, last name Levy. My dad and I are more collectors than dealers but nonetheless would like to say hi. I'm at booth 900 tomorrow (at least until 2pm). Then I have to get back to my real job.

Best
Scott Levy

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Sorry man I was a one and done this time. Wish I had known where more N54 guys were.

Easy solution:

>WARNING SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT<

Do my show in Jim Thorpe this November!

>This concludes the shameless plug alert system<

[1952boyntoncollector]

I didn't personally see the stack. I saw the guys. I was told 30. But I don't have personal confirmation.

i wonder what condition the cards were in...but i was surprised at the large POP for that card..i assumed it would be far less...

[brass_rat]

I've had a great time hanging out with collectors (net54 and non) thus far -- everyone is in great spirits. Wednesday and Thursday seemed a little slow, but it's sure to pick up with the big autograph names showing up for the weekend days. I'm not a (paying) autograph collector, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

The floor area is nice and wide open, although I wish booth numbers and dealer names were more prominently displayed...it helps for jotting down notes.

I've bought exactly one card thus far...for the most part, these are the highest prices I've seen at a National, but maybe it's just what I'm looking at. Several times I've seen cards I've wanted, but their sticker prices are literally 3x what the dealer paid for them either on ebay or a major auction house in the past 6 months. It's hard to start a negotiation when a real price is so much lower than the sticker. Then again, kudos to people that actually list prices on their cards?? Catch 22.

I've also noticed that PSA's line is literally an hour plus wait for the entire day...and SGC is a ghost town. Not a good sign for the state of competition.

One of the more interesting things I've seen is the dealer who had a stacked full case of 60's decade Mantles...all raw. He was happy that he had sold over 200 Mantles already, mostly to dealers. Doesn't seem to care that he's leaving money on the table...the collector that I was with explained that this dealer doesn't believe in grading. I'm sure the dealers buying those Mantles do though...

The Jumbo Wagner is on display...some people may think "seen one, seen em all", but I always enjoy seeing a Wagner...especially one so nice.

I'll write more tomorrow. Are there any particular details people would like reports about?

Cheers,
Steve

[Stonepony]

Interesting. Thanks Steve

[1952boyntoncollector]

I've had a great time hanging out with collectors (net54 and non) thus far -- everyone is in great spirits. Wednesday and Thursday seemed a little slow, but it's sure to pick up with the big autograph names showing up for the weekend days. I'm not a (paying) autograph collector, so it doesn't make a difference to me.

The floor area is nice and wide open, although I wish booth numbers and dealer names were more prominently displayed...it helps for jotting down notes.

I've bought exactly one card thus far...for the most part, these are the highest prices I've seen at a National, but maybe it's just what I'm looking at. Several times I've seen cards I've wanted, but their sticker prices are literally 3x what the dealer paid for them either on ebay or a major auction house in the past 6 months. It's hard to start a negotiation when a real price is so much lower than the sticker. Then again, kudos to people that actually list prices on their cards?? Catch 22.

I've also noticed that PSA's line is literally an hour plus wait for the entire day...and SGC is a ghost town. Not a good sign for the state of competition.

One of the more interesting things I've seen is the dealer who had a stacked full case of 60's decade Mantles...all raw. He was happy that he had sold over 200 Mantles already, mostly to dealers. Doesn't seem to care that he's leaving money on the table...the collector that I was with explained that this dealer doesn't believe in grading. I'm sure the dealers buying those Mantles do though...

The Jumbo Wagner is on display...some people may think "seen one, seen em all", but I always enjoy seeing a Wagner...especially one so nice.

I'll write more tomorrow. Are there any particular details people would like reports about?

Cheers,
Steve

sounds similar to last year....i know last day the line was fast to PSA..like a 5-10 minute wait if people stay that long....


as far as prices of dealers..its about not having to wait for an auction to a buy a card if in fact the card is available...dealers have to buy cards so they cant sell them for what they paid for them obviously...will always be a markup...

[Tennis13]

sounds similar to last year....i know last day the line was fast to PSA..like a 5-10 minute wait if people stay that long....


as far as prices of dealers..its about not having to wait for an auction to a buy a card if in fact the card is available...dealers have to buy cards so they cant sell them for what they paid for them obviously...will always be a markup...

......in a bull market.

[Jewish-collector]

The show seems to have less dealers than usual. And the crowd so far has been less, but I did notice more young kids there than at other nationals. I didn't see the SCP booth, but the other auction houses were represented, although Heritage is not able to put their name up at their booth for legal reasons. They are giving free appraisals at their very large booth.

Anyone at the national is welcome to join us for dinner on Friday, Aug 5th at Wingcraft Kitchen & Beer Bar. It's right across from the convention center. We will be there soon after the show ends at around 6:30 pm - 7 pm. Just ask for the Net54 collectors group if you don't see/know someone from Net54.

http://www.wingcraftac.com/

[1952boyntoncollector]

For those that went today, how was the selection of Jackie Robinson cards/items? Was hoping to go today, but I wasn't able to make it. Debating on going tomorrow.

i looking for a nice mid grade 1952 topps or rookie leaf jackie robinson

[1952boyntoncollector]

......in a bull market.

well as you probably know most of the dealers dont have to sell...they can wait for the next bull market if the market goes down...no reason to sell at a loss.....you can see listings on ebay for 10 years for example..

[dembums]

For those that went today, how was the selection of Jackie Robinson cards/items? Was hoping to go today, but I wasn't able to make it. Debating on going tomorrow.

I heard a 1953 Canadian Exhibit Green tint was sold. Matt C. of The Post Game Show had about 75 Jackie items at his booth, which as a Jackie collector, was pretty impressive. Saw a couple Bond Bread Jackies: Running Down Basepath (with a fake signature in blue pen on the bottom left corner),a PSA 1 Leaping with Scoreboard in Back, and the fielding one where he's standing on the bag (forget the technical name off the top of my head).

Prices on Jackie were relatively high, but there were definitely deals to be had.

My first National, so totally overwhelmed, but I loved every minute of it. Especially talking Brooklyn Dodgers with the generation who lived through those golden years. So cool.

[CharleyBrown]

I heard a 1953 Canadian Exhibit Green tint was sold. Matt C. of the Postgame show had about 75 Jackie items at his booth, which as a Jackie collector, was pretty impressive. Saw a couple Bond Bread Jackies: Running Down Basepath (with a fake signature in blue pen on the bottom left corner),a PSA 1 Leaping with Scoreboard in Back, and the fielding one where he's standing on the bag (forget the technical name off the top of my head).

Prices on Jackie were relatively high, but there were definitely deals to be had.

My first National, so totally overwhelmed, but I loved every minute of it. Esplecally talking Brooklyn Dodgers with the generation who lived through those golden years. So cool.

Sweet, thanks for the heads up! Wish I was there for that Green Tint. Had one and sold it a few years ago. Incredibly tough to find. Might just have to make the trip down there tomorrow.

[kailes2872]

(long-winded recap coming below. One of my degrees was journalism as well - but I never really did well in the editing class)

After missing last year in Chicago, we did the National as the back end of a pseudo family vacation - it started in Secaucus Sunday night, meandered through the Yankees/Mets at Citi Field on Monday, on a boat out to the Statue of Liberty on tuesday, down to AC on Wednesday with a detour to the Borgata with a 10 hour session in the card room Wedneday Night/Thursday Morning and finally to the convention center today.

I really enjoyed Cleveland a couple of years ago. It was a day trip and it was my first one - so we spent 2 full days walking the show. Maybe the the newness has worn off after being to one of them, but it was much less enjoyable today.

1.) I spent the first 90 minutes in line for PSA. I had 3 cards that I wanted to get slabbed (55 Koufax, 54 Kaline, 55 Robinson). I have the PSA 6 Koufax but wanted the other one slabbed as well (probably 2.5-3). I think Kaline and Robinson would be 3-3.5. I know that it is largely a waste of money to get lower grade cards slabbed - but if it was ever time to sell them off, I prefered the comfort of knowing a solid price as I usually get flaws pointed out and lowballed when selling, and then the same card would have its centering and virtues emphasized when it works its way into dealer inventory. I'd prefer to take the guess work out even if it calls for some extra investment up front. I also had 2 cards that needed reholdered - 56 Red Shoendienst and 33 Goudey Lloyd Waner. Red fell in my safe and the slab opened up. Waner was damaged when I opened up the box from the submission - it was packed so tightly and so well that when I finally got the scissors in, they scratched the plastic - right on the face.

I waited for 90 minutes and had a nice guy who wanted to talk the entire time. And by entire, I mean every possible second. He was a low talker and I couldn't hear about 80% of what he said, so I just laughed a lot. Very nice fellow, just more line talking that what I was hoping for. The boys finally jumped out of line and went and walked the show because they were worn out by him as well.

When I finally got up there, I was informed that they would reholder Red, but they needed to regrade it as well for $40. It is a $25-$30 card in PSA 6. I told her that their holder popped open. She said that they are sonically sealed and incapable of opening - thus I must have opened it and they cannot be sure that it is the actual card - plus it might have been damaged when removed. I decided against it - so now, I need to either deal with it or find another one. What's worse is that there is an open PSA case that I was hoping to put back into their property, but when she accused me of trying to put the slide on a $30 card, I decided against grading services today (plus it was 48 hour turnaround and we are leaving tomorrow - so for $40 onsite grading plus insurance to ship back, it was definitely not worth it).

2.) whew, so 90 minutes in, a rough conversation wtih PSA and now time to walk the show. I agree with comments above, it did seem smaller than Cleveland - even though I believe that there were similar amounts of rows. I had a black Austin 3:16 shirt on today and I got a lot of fun comments. I am folically challenged, so I was getting a lot of WWE circa '96 references. Lots of good times! It was nice seeing Pat & Kevin Savage, Zimp & Wayne (and luckily they were right next to each other). I missed some of the dealers from 2 years ago. I like looking at the pieces from the auction houses, but it was just observation - it would be nice if they put them all together in one section.

3) Speaking of shiny stuff... count me as someone who doesn't understand the case brake phenomenon. They are continually at the mic chatting. People are excited and celebrating the "pulls" and I am not quite sure what the celebration is about. It just creates noise. The food court was always packed full - seats were hard to come by. But with the case break pavilion and the food court, it looked like about a fourth of the convention center was wasted before they actually started selling the cards.

4.) The manufactuers area in the center seems to be a lot of unprodcutive space. Again, because I don't do modern stuff - except for a new set for the boys every year (more on that later) - So, it is square footage that is unproductive for me - along with the AH displays and the case break area - basically 1/3 to 1/2 of the space I just gloss over and run right through -except for getting to make a baseball card with Topps.

5.) The material is always great. Besides seeing the lucky 7 4.5 Cobb and the 4 Wagner, the coolest table I saw was one that had tons and tons of T206 Cobbs, Matty's, Youngs, Johnsons, etc. He also had a bunch of 33 Ruths, Gehrigs, just beautiful, amazing inventory. He was selling the full Ruth run in PSA 6 for 58,000. He was selling a 4 Cobbs as a set as well. He had 3 52 Mantles with the PSA 5 going for 115,000. A different income stratesphere, but it was breathtaking for me looking at all of them there.

6.) I am always impressed with the amount of material at Levi's table. I think that if I had unlimited funds and the ability to pay a super premium that would require me to take a terrible hit if I ever had to liquidate, I could probably fill every single thing on my current want list.

7.) I spoke with Scott at Just Collect. He is a super nice guy. I really wanted to say hey to Leighton as he gave Conner a T-Shirt and a T206 card a couple of years ago when he discovered pre-war, but he wasn't there at the time. It was probably something that he doesn't even remember but it left such an impact on me and Conner and I wanted to thank him personally. I saw Scott last year at the Robert Morris show in Pittsburgh and related the story - and he recalled it as I was explaining why I was looking for Leighton today. I hope that I never have to sell and I continue to grow my collection but those are the kind of things that make me want to deal with those guys if something were to ever happen - and it makes sense why they get such good material all of the time (and it was cool seeing the Plank from the fairy godmother find).

8.) My want list is pretty small right now as I am finishing up my 55 and 54 Topps ugrades. I am on the verge of buying a 63 fleer set and have a few other upgrades in the set run that I am hitting as I go along - but I didn't have a huge list of singles that I was going to sit at a table and go through commons trying to build my sets. This saved some time. I also bought a 54 Berra and 54 Billy Martin on Monday night, so I counted them as show purchases. I have set up a 63 Fleer and 64 Rose purchase with a very nice N54 member and am transacting that next week - so I am counting them as my National purchases - even though I didn't actually buy them at the show (they will be there when I get home).

9.) The one thing that I did buy was the boys' 2016 Topps sets that I get them every year - so that we have the set run going to current. Last time, I went to Steel City collectibles. They had them for $40. I took a flyer and asked if they would take $75 for two. In 2014 they did, when I asked, the immediate response was "NO SIR!" I told him that I would walk the floor and see what I could find and maybe be back later. I ended up finding a smaller vendor who had them for sale for $40. I asked if he would discount a multiple purchase. He said, "How about $75 for 2?" SOLD. I then went and spent $42 on sheets and binders. That was it. I should have waited until the end of the day because it got tiresome lugging them around.

10.) The boys were treated well, but now that they are 17 and 14, and are getting closer to me in size, it wasn't quite the free for all that it was in 2014 - when random people would pull them aside and try to give them free stuff. My younger son was asked by the Panini rep if he wanted to participate in the NBA kids case break at 4 with the Memphis Grizzlies. Alas, no Grizzlies were pulled, but he did get a nice consolation prize. The only problem was that we had walked the floor nearly twice by a quarter after 3 and we spent the next 30 minutes just sitting in the food court waiting until the break started at 4. As soon as he was done there, so were we. I would have never imagined not only finishing in one day (it was 2 full in Cleveland), but being done 90 minutes before it shut down.

11.) Prices were all over the place. I can usually look at 1-2 cards and have an idea of pricing strategy. One guy had a 68 PSA 5 Clemente for $250. He had other cards that looked to be about 3-5x the going rate. That was a quick walk by. Another guy had very strong pricing - a PSA 6 Kaline (albeit the first generation label and it looked like it had some marks in the border) for $700 - but had some room. I need to get it but didn't love the card. I know tht it was a $500 a few months ago, but $700 with some room seemed reasonable - and that was how his inventory was priced. Another guy had 33 Ruth's at a grand a grade, decently price low grade Ruth and Gehrigs, and other solid, fair prices. The 50's and 60's prices are heavy at the National - A PSA 6 Rose was $1400. I saw a PSA 6 Clemente that was not especially nice (off center, just meh) for $5500. They tended to run $4500-$6500. 5's are consistently $3000. I am so happy that I pulled the trigger for mine last March for $2200 - and it was $400 above SMR at the time and I worried about paying too much). Koufax PSA 6 was consistently $2000. Aaron was generally $3000 for PSA 6. There were deals to be made, I just had a pretty narrow list and I already had the 63 fleer set up, so I had to keep that in mind.

12.) I had marked my list to see some of the Net54 folks and visit their booths. Unfortunately, I left it at the hotel and didn't have it to reference. If you saw a guy in an Austin 3:16 shirt and you were nice, I appreciate it. I am starting to get burned out on the hobby a bit. I always feel like I am the buy high sell low guy and I feel like a lot of these dealers would really stick it to me if they figured they could make a buck. If that is the way to get ahead in the hobby then count me out. I would witness the negotiation as they were going through material and buying. It was always discounting their collection, reminding the collector that they had plenty of inventory and would be sitting on it for a while, cherry picking the best stuff, giving a low ball take it or leave it offer, yet continually asking anyone with a backpack or a box in hand what they had and then going through the same exercise. If 70-80% of VCP is what I can count on, I shutter to think how much I would lose if I ever got liquid. Oh well, I collect for my personal pleasure - to buy up the stuff that I could never afford when I was a kid. I hope to pass it on to my boys some day. When I was a kid, I was often shoo'd away by the dealers as I was a low rent guy wanting to look at the big cards in their cases.

End of Rant, End of recap. File under TLDR, or enjoy if you were unable to attend and wanted a taste of what it was like. Probably not going to Chicago next year, as $60 for the three of us to walk through in 4 hours doesn't really justify it - but I will probably break down and go to Cleveland in 2 years if I am still in this collecting game.

Cheers,
Kevin

P.S. heard rumblings from a dealer that an autographed Mantle ball was swiped today.

[timzcardz]

Just wanted to say that you guys reporting here really suck! ;)

For months I've been planning on going Saturday, but have been exhausted lately. Pretty much decided last night that I might not be up to the 6 hours of driving roundtrip. So, I got on the 5:26 train this morning, heading to work in Manhattan, tired and resigned to not going tomorrow.

Now reading the reports here, I'm reconsidering. Have to see what I feel like tonight.

[4815162342]

... Heritage is not able to put their name up at their booth for legal reasons. ...


Huh?

[gnaz01]

Huh?

I was thinking the same thing

[bobbyw8469]

I'm a big customer service grumpy old man and Brian blew me away. I was talking via with him via email about consigning a T205 common in NM 7 with REA. I walk up to the table with the card out and Brian walks over and says "Scott Russell!" Like we're old friends. We've never met, he just knew by the card I was holding who I must be. Now how many people was he expecting to meet this weekend? I didn't have a time set up or anything, he just pays that much attention to customer service. In my mind I hadn't committed to consigning it until that moment. That was a deal-maker as opposed to so many in the hobby who treat you so poorly that it's a deal-breaker. AND he remembered to give me my pin even though I forgot to ask for it!

Kept missing Brent at PWCC, but talked to a couple other guys with them. I was helping a friend consign a gorgeous 86 fleer basketball set and 79 Topps hockey set a PSA 8 1965 Mantle and a PSA 7 Seaver Rookie. I had talked with Brent about it all via email, but the other guys at the booth were great. I gotta say they do seem honestly passionate about trying to do the right thing and they do understand that being the only guys who have ebay's ear is a very big deal. Felt very good after walking away from them

PSA had a huge line for submissions, SGC was looking for something to do.

Hmmm the only guy I know at SGC was at someone else's booth when I walked by. I called his name just to let him know I was there and he gave me the "just a minute" finger (I double checked because I often get the other finger) and that was fine, I didn't expect him to stop what he was doing to come talk to me. So I waited patiently. He finished talking to the guy and then turned his back on me and walked away. This is a guy who has been courting my business for several months now, trying to convince me to switch my grading from PSA to SGC. Guess not.

Bumped into a bunch of guys I know and even gave someone an intro to Net54.

All in all a good time.

Great post. Very odd that the SGC guy did that. And they are wondering why they are losing market share.

[bobbyw8469]

i wonder what condition the cards were in...but i was surprised at the large POP for that card..i assumed it would be far less...

That card probably has an extremely misleading report. I'm sure it has been cracked out numerous times.

[Leon]

Huh?

I was told of this Heritage situation some time ago. If Heritage brought stuff there were some legal hurdles I just don't remember the details. It might have been a taxation thing. *(and I realize they aren't selling at the show but it was something crazy)

[Mountaineer1999]

12.) I had marked my list to see some of the Net54 folks and visit their booths. Unfortunately, I left it at the hotel and didn't have it to reference. If you saw a guy in an Austin 3:16 shirt and you were nice, I appreciate it. I am starting to get burned out on the hobby a bit. I always feel like I am the buy high sell low guy and I feel like a lot of these dealers would really stick it to me if they figured they could make a buck. If that is the way to get ahead in the hobby then count me out. I would witness the negotiation as they were going through material and buying. It was always discounting their collection, reminding the collector that they had plenty of inventory and would be sitting on it for a while, cherry picking the best stuff, giving a low ball take it or leave it offer, yet continually asking anyone with a backpack or a box in hand what they had and then going through the same exercise. If 70-80% of VCP is what I can count on, I shutter to think how much I would lose if I ever got liquid. Oh well, I collect for my personal pleasure - to buy up the stuff that I could never afford when I was a kid. I hope to pass it on to my boys some day. When I was a kid, I was often shoo'd away by the dealers as I was a low rent guy wanting to look at the big cards in their cases.

End of Rant, End of recap. File under TLDR, or enjoy if you were unable to attend and wanted a taste of what it was like. Probably not going to Chicago next year, as $60 for the three of us to walk through in 4 hours doesn't really justify it - but I will probably break down and go to Cleveland in 2 years if I am still in this collecting game.

Cheers,
Kevin

P.S. heard rumblings from a dealer that an autographed Mantle ball was swiped today.

Nice write-up Kevin, enjoyed reading. I've never been to a National, I did not know there was such a thing until a couple years ago when I became a member here. From what I have read, the common theme at The Nationals seems to be the over pricing of cards and the word 'rude' is used a lot. So I wonder why go? The money spent just to get there with travel, hotel and food etc. , then what does one get? Overpriced cards and rude dealers moving you along because he can tell you aren't going to drop $6K on a 1955 kids bubble gum card.

[tennisguy]

Nice write-up Kevin, enjoyed reading. I've never been to a National, I did not know there was such a thing until a couple years ago when I became a member here. From what I have read, the common theme at The Nationals seems to be the over pricing of cards and the word 'rude' is used a lot. So I wonder why go? The money spent just to get there with travel, hotel and food etc. , then what does one get? Overpriced cards and rude dealers moving you along because he can tell you aren't going to drop $6K on a 1955 kids bubble gum card.

Understandable.

[4815162342]

I was told of this Heritage situation some time ago. If Heritage brought stuff there were some legal hurdles I just don't remember the details. It might have been a taxation thing. *(and I realize they aren't selling at the show but it was something crazy)


I guess I understand a possible tax problem. It's a shame though; they always brought great items to the National. Seeing the BSF E98s there was a highlight.

If they don't have any Heritage signage, and they don't bring stuff, what do they do at at their booth?

[Snapolit1]

I've been in the room for about 7 hours and didnt meet a single person I'd consider rude. Overwhelming people seem almost giddy to be in a room with so much cool stuff and so many folks with same hobby.
As they say, your mileage may vary ....

[Snapolit1]

PS. I don't consider someone rude for not negotiating on price. I may not appreciate it but it's their prerogative.

[kailes2872]

I've been in the room for about 7 hours and didnt meet a single person I'd consider rude. Overwhelming people seem almost giddy to be in a room with so much cool stuff and so many folks with same hobby.
As they say, your mileage may vary ....

I apologize if I came off as saying they were rude to me. In most cases, quite the contrary. At worst, they were indifferent and there is no harm there. I was only speaking to the collection/card buying process from patrons as I witnessed a half a dozen of these transactions. Admittedly, I have deep scars from a transaction gone wrong at a show when I was 9 years old that I won't rehash here - so I always view with a skewed eye, but the general walking of the floor and interaction was pleasant.

[Leon]

It's all about knowing when to play and having the right piles. Very straightforward, actually. (at around 2:12 there is some serious strategy going on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09TSwVSl3ZM




If they don't have any Heritage signage, and they don't bring stuff, what do they do at at their booth?


.

[vthobby]

I have a friend who is at the National AC with a roommate and so far the roommate bought a 1953 Topps set for $4500 and about $2000 in singles from various years.

My friend has spent $5500 on cards (mostly top rookies) and still has around $2500 left to spend.

These are just 2 folks walking the floor who admittedly are not afraid to spend some cash but can you imagine how much money is changing hands down there?!

:eek::cool::eek:

Peace, Mike

[irv]

PSA had a huge line for submissions, SGC was looking for something to do.

Hmmm the only guy I know at SGC was at someone else's booth when I walked by. I called his name just to let him know I was there and he gave me the "just a minute" finger (I double checked because I often get the other finger) and that was fine, I didn't expect him to stop what he was doing to come talk to me. So I waited patiently. He finished talking to the guy and then turned his back on me and walked away. This is a guy who has been courting my business for several months now, trying to convince me to switch my grading from PSA to SGC. Guess not.



If I was there with my cards looking to get them graded I wouldn't have hesitated getting SGC to grade them.

Of course, not knowing the situation fully or the time frame, do you think it is possible he simply forgot about you as I am sure he, like everyone else has a ton on their minds?

I have a friend who is at the National AC with a roommate and so far the roommate bought a 1953 Topps set for $4500 and about $2000 in singles from various years.

My friend has spent $5500 on cards (mostly top rookies) and still has around $2500 left to spend.

These are just 2 folks walking the floor who admittedly are not afraid to spend some cash but can you imagine how much money is changing hands down there?!

:eek::cool::eek:

Peace, Mike

WOW! :eek:

I can only imagine the money that is changing hands around there!

I am sure Brinks trucks are making frequent visits?

Sucks to hear a signed Mickey Mantle ball was swiped. :(

[vthobby]

A funny side note about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!! :eek:

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC! :cool:

Peace, Mike

[irv]

A funny side not about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!! :eek:

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC! :cool:

Peace, Mike

LOL

Don't blame him one bit!

[uniship]

outstanding write-up Kevin - thank you!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Of course, not knowing the situation fully or the time frame, do you think it is possible he simply forgot about you as I am sure he, like everyone else has a ton on their minds?


Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

[Snapolit1]

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

[Stonepony]

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

What did you buy, if you don't mind?

[bobbyw8469]

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

That would tick me off royally. Especially if the guy was begging for your business just months earlier. And to treat you like you were nobody.

[Vintagecatcher]

Just returned from 2016 Atlantic City National.

I drove down from Maine. Took a relaxing antiquing trip across New Hampshire to Vermont starting early on Wednesday. Was excited about how relaxing a trip it was taking this route. Unfortunately the 2nd half of the trip was a nightmare. New Jersey has the worst road signs in the country, and the traffic was bad including seeing the wreck of a smoldering 18 wheeler just prior to leaving NJ headed for Interstate 87 North on my trip home on Thursday afternoon. Lucky for me, I was headed North and the wreck was Southbound.

I reached the Atlantic City Convention Center a few hours before the opening on Thursday, and was excited about what surprises might lie ahead.

Here's my impression of the show.

I have been to Nationals in Cleveland, Atlanta, the original Atlantic City show, and Baltimore, and this show had a lot of open area at both the ends. Found the layout of dealers to be very fragmented with larger displays in the middle that broke up the flow of going row to row.

No doubt I was agitated from a crappy drive through New Jersey, but I viewed the entire show in only about 2 1/2 hours. Keep in mind, I had no interest in any autographs, new products, grading services, card breaks, auction houses...strictly an interest in 1905-1920 cards and memorabilia.

Of all the Nationals I have been to, I have never seen such a small amount of memorabilia. I also never recall seeing so many tables not ready to receive customers at the 10 opening at previous Nationals. I also noticed that prices were much higher compared to other Nationals I had been to in years past.

On a positive note, however, the show did have some nice T202s, T204s, T205s, T206s, T207s and T210s. One dealer had a display case full of nice 1909 Obaks. Don Hontz of Portand, Maine had a really nice selection of 1914 Cracker Jacks, 1915 Crack Jacks, and T205s at his table.

There also seemed to be a decent selection of nice postcards such as: Rose Co., Novelty Cutlery, Sepia, Ullmans, Sporting News etc.

Lucky for me, I did see one rare item that I was interested in acquiring in one of the tables at the far end opposite from the card break end.

As luck would have it, I was able to strike a trade deal with Tim N. from the board, and acquired this 1913 Ira Thomas cravats. That purchase was the lone saving grace from a disappointing show.


Patrick

[irv]

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

That does seem odd, but I bet whatever it was he was talking about, distracted him enough to forget about you? (Just a guess of course and not taking sides)

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

That is great to hear! :)

[baker85]

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

[Snapolit1]

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

[kailes2872]

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

There is a table on the far left (as you are heading to the back that has multiples of all of those. Can't remember how they were priced. The same table had the PSA 5 mantle for 115k - so use that as a relative price index.

[baker85]

the mantle does not mean anything to me. I do not track mantle stuff at all because it's just not worth it.

[jbsports33]

Thanks for all the updates!

Jimmy

[kailes2872]

the mantle does not mean anything to me. I do not track mantle stuff at all because it's just not worth it.
Just letting you know that was the only price I remember from his table as a point of reference.

[ullmandds]

thanks for the updates...sounds kinda similar to every national I've been to in last 10 years!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He's been very persistent at some shows I've been doing, making all sorts of great offers etc... and I've enjoyed talking with him, but I hadn't submitted anything yet. One can always misinterpret, but it really felt like I was getting the brush-off, like I hadn't been worth his time. Contrast that with the treatment I got with Robert Edwards and PWCC it came off even worse. I mean Larry Dean was busy as hell while I was there, but he still took a few seconds to chat with me and meet my friend.

[Tennis13]

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

So I am somewhere between a jammoke (I think, I'm not sure what that is but it doesn't sound complimentary) and a knowledgeable collector. I know there is a ton of talk about pricing at the National, and here's sort of my view:

1) The National is the only show where I can confidently walk in knowing that I can line up 5 to 10 cards that I want, look at them side-by-side, and understand exactly what I'm buying and how it stacks up versus the other cards. I bought my Gehrigs this year and last year, and both times I hemmed and hawed, and went back and forth on what card I wanted, and could have easily bought any of 4 or 5 cards, but I settled on a LOWER GRADED card because I did not like the higher graded alternatives as much as I thought I should. It had nothing to do with price, but it had to do with what I could see and how the row of cards stacked up against each other. I won't get that at many other shows, I don't think.

2) Because it's the National, these guys are paying premium $$$ for tables, and so in a seller's market, that cost is transferred to the buyer. That's just basic economics in what is clearly right now a price inelastic market.

3) I don't go to the National to compete on pricing. I go for the experience, the ability to learn and to see what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale at this stage in life. I get good data points on how prices are moving, what's available and not in broad strokes, and a way to sort of narrow down my focus. In short, it's a very complete data point in what is typically a very fragmented, opaque marketplace. If I ever go, and guys are competing on pricing aggressively, that will be very instructive to me as well for how I could purchase cards over the next 12 to 18 months.

Using all of that information, I think you can find pockets and areas that are soft, or not extremely elevated, in order to get what you need. I paid a lot more than I wanted for my Gehrig last year (and I didn't bargain on mine this year) but I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL. That pressed me into action; I wouldn't have had that experience without the National.

Is it worth $22 and $10 for parking and maybe $25 in gas? For me, without a doubt. I look forward to it every single year.

[x2drich2000]

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

I did almost the exact same thing. Wed I went searching for any e92 Nadjas I could find but came up completely empty. Thursday I tried to just find something different/unique but nothing really stood out. I did meet and complete a trade with ValKehl that netted me a e92 Nadja Schaeffer. This morning I ended up picking up a great looking t3 Johnson for a very reasonable price.

Overall I thought the show was pretty good and everyone who was complaining about the location missed out. I was able to Meet a ton of folks from the board (too many to name) while hanging out at Al's booth and just as many while roaming the floor. I think this was probably the highlight of the show for me. Below are a few of my other thoughts.

1) Dealers seemed to be doing well. Observed several deals being completed for over $1k. None of the dealers I spoke to were complaining about the amount of business they were getting.

2) Tons of 52 Topps Mantles available. I would say at least 30-40 were qavailable with several dealers having multiples in different grades available. Prices were all over the place, but I think the cheapest I saw priced was $10k. I did hear multiple discussions for the 51 bowman from attendees either looking to buy or sell.

3) Lots of T206s available including several dealers with rare backs. I know I saw red Hindu, Drum, multiple Uzits, etc. One dealer had a number of different oddities and another had cases filled with Cobbs, Youngs, Mathewsons, etc. The same dealer also had quantities of Goudey Ruth's, Gehrigs, etc. In general, caramels seemed to be in short supply.

4) AC - I thought the convention center was good enough. but about 1/4 of the convention center was reserved for the case break area. Every time I went pasta this area it seemed to be empty. This kind of made me wonder if the case break was smaller, would that open up the possiblity of different locations being considered for the future. At the same time, I spoke with several people that expressed confusion over the whole case break ideas.

Walking the streets seemed safe enough in the morning. Granted, I did not walk back in the evening. I could see how the streets outside the convention centers/outlet area could be less than friendly when the sun goes down.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
DJ

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

to see what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale at this stage in life.

I liked a lot of what you had to say, but you clearly overestimate the National if you think the above is even remotely accurate.

Kinda contradicts what you said later "I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL"

[Tennis13]

I liked a lot of what you had to say, but you clearly overestimate the National if you think the above is even remotely accurate.

Kinda contradicts what you said later "I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL"


So, what is the percentage? Again, I'm no expert, I am just guessing.

It doesn't contradict it. It's my assumption that if I want it, I'm going to find it at the National, and in multiple forms. If I don't find it in multiple forms, then I better act quick, because I'm not sure how I'm going to find it elsewhere without paying a finder's fee/auction fee of some sort.

Again, because I think there's so much at the National, if I can't find it, I sorta say "Oh, man, I gotta buy it now or maybe not get a chance again."

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'd be shocked if 25% of the industry's prewar inventory was in that room. BEYOND shocked actually. There might be as much prewar inventory in board members homes who weren't at the National as there was at the National. I think I'd actually take that action in favor of the board.

[Stonepony]

I'd be shocked if 25% of the industry's prewar inventory was in that room. BEYOND shocked actually. There might be as much prewar inventory in board members homes who weren't at the National as there was at the National. I think I'd actually take that action in favor of the board.

Yeah, I put a decimal point then start adding zeros to the right of it before writing a 1.

[e107collector]

Anyone see any tougher Joe Jackson cards for sale?

Tony

[clydepepper]

Well, it has been very interesting reading all the reports from National. I'm not sure when or even if I'll ever be able to attend.

If it ever comes to Atlanta, I would make a concerted effort to be there...but, even then, I would be quite the green-horn to such surroundings. Nice to know there was a good Net54 representation there...perhaps that sort of group would provide some guidance should I show up.

For someone who is yet to move up to a smart-phone, what's the best way to carry / handle your finances / then purchases at National...I mean, I know to carry anything in my front pockets, not my back pockets - but what else would y'all advise?

Thanks,
Raymond

[uyu906]

My son (12 yrs old) and I went all day on Thursday. I have been collecting since 1976, but this was only the 2nd National I have ever attended and my son's first.

When we entered the hall at 10AM we walked right past Joe Orlando of PSA chatting with some guy in an aisle near the PSA booth.

Things I noticed - I asked at a number of dealers' tables that had pre-war for York Caramels (E210) but found none! Very strange, I thought.

I was also looking for a 1934 Goudey Jimmie Foxx in PSA 3 and could not find one. In fact I only saw a few in any condition, most were not graded or PSA 1's or 2's. Most of the raw were in similar condition. I also saw at least 1 high grade.

I was also looking for Old Judge Baltimore players and John Tener cards. I saw a bunch of Old Judges - but not one Baltimore or John Tener Old Judge. Nada -

Saw lots of high & low grade card stars and RC's from 1950s and 1960s. But less in mid grade - PSA-4-6. PSA 6's I saw in these were priced significantly higher than normal prices for these. I tried to buy a 1951 Bowman Nellie Foxx RC in PSA 6 and found only 1, but could not come to an agreement with the dealer. He wanted $175, but it was OC top to bottom and I just could not pull the trigger.

My most successful buys were 3 graded T206 Baltimore players I needed: Adkins, Dessau, and Dunn (Old Mill).

I met one guy in his 30's at a dealer's table who specialized in high grade 1950s stars and RC's. He dropped 9K on a couple of high grade RC's. The dealer asked him what he did for a living and he said he was an investment broker. I guess those guys really are driving the market now.

Bitter sweet thing, my son bought mostly Pokemon cards (of which there was a fairly large supply) - but we still had fun hanging out all day and he liked looking at the pre-war stuff I was checking out. I was kind of secretly hoping some collector or dealer would verbally encourage him to collect sports cards but no one said anything to him (possibly because he is already 5'10"), except one dealer who rudely told him to get out of a chair at his booth because they were for customers (not realizing I was on the other side of the booth trying to purchase some cards from his partner).

I though the show had plenty of room in the aisles and in the hall in general. Seemed like a bigger space than what was at the last Baltimore National. Easy parking for $15 right next to the convention center.

White House Subs did not disappoint after the show was over.

I will anxiously look forward to the next National on the East Coast!

[ValKehl]

Rich, I did see some E210s at the show on Thursday & Friday, but not all that many. I do specifically recall seeing a couple of York Caramel WaJos.

[Snapolit1]

Did not notice any valuable Shoeless Joe cards.

[vintagehofrookies]

8). Random story of the day: some dudes seemed to be travelling with a bunch of Joe Namath rookies. Not sure why. Only told this second hand, then I saw them and confirmed it.


they were probably getting them signed as Namath is signing Sat.

[ullmandds]

they were probably getting them signed as Namath is signing Sat.

that wouldnt be very smart if they were graded...esp high grade.

there appears to be no shortage of jordan rookies at this years national!

[Snapolit1]

One of the big auction houses was selling a Gehrig rookie exhibit SGC 30 I think for $35K. Not a bad investment considering where that card is sitting right now on the Heritage site with nearly a month to go in bidding.

[pawpawdiv9]

Aaargh. Make me wanna go back and take the BestOffer I had with 707 on Ebay on his poor water damaged copy he had for sell at 4k-ish.
Waiting for the bubbles to burst any moment now!!!

[BeanTown]

One of the big auction houses was selling a Gehrig rookie exhibit SGC 30 I think for $35K. Not a bad investment considering where that card is sitting right now on the Heritage site with nearly a month to go in bidding.

Was that the card at Memory Lane (I Own It) booth? If yes, I looked at that card and one of the employees own it. He had a price tag of 60k on it. I didn't see another 1925 Gehrig Rookie there on the floor. I saw a 1927 Gehrig Exhibit and bought it for a great price from Scottsdale Cards.

[Section103]

Saturday morning at the Nationals and the Feds havent been on the floor yet for a dramatic bust? :smh:

[tiger8mush]

I'd be shocked if 25% of the industry's prewar inventory was in that room. BEYOND shocked actually. There might be as much prewar inventory in board members homes who weren't at the National as there was at the National. I think I'd actually take that action in favor of the board.

I believe he said "what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale"

not just total inventory
:)

[sushihotwings]

Thanks everyone for the fantastic national descriptions and I appreciate the entirety of it even if it isn't pre war. Great to get the big picture and details on all of it. You got me excited about Chicago next year

[glynparson]

My awesome dad for all his help this weekend. I was recently diagnosed with Lyme disease after a nearly year long battle they finally figured out what it was. It has left me weak and tired and he has certainly picked up the slack for me. If I seemed aloof or stand offish to anyone this weekend I apologize. Again Love you dad and thanks for all of your tremendous help.

[MacDice]

Are there a lot of Zeenuts at the national this year

[bnorth]

My awesome dad for all his help this weekend. I was recently diagnosed with Lyme disease after a nearly year long battle they finally figured out what it was. It has left me weak and tired and he has certainly picked up the slack for me. If I seemed aloof or stand offish to anyone this weekend I apologize. Again Love you dad and thanks for all of your tremendous help.

That really sucks Glyn. Hope they get you fixed up, Lyme disease took a very good friend about 3 yrs ago.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I believe he said "what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale"

not just total inventory
:)

I understand, but there's no way even with that qualification.

[DeanH3]

Thanks to everybody for their reports. It's a joy to read your experiences as it does make me feel like I'm a part of it even though I'm not there.

One tidbit I found interesting is the lack of caramel cards. I guess a lot of people are stashing them in case another wave of caramel craziness comes around.

Wanted to add...what about Coupons? Any t213-1's, 2's or 3's out there?

[Bicem]

No kidding, saw 2 different dealers with at least 75 Jordan rookies each.

[kkkkandp]

I was also looking for Old Judge Baltimore players and John Tener cards. I saw a bunch of Old Judges - but not one Baltimore or John Tener Old Judge. Nada -

I have been away on vacation and will not be able to attend the show at all this year. :(

I have been scanning the posts in this thread and this is the first mention I have seen about 19th century material, specifically Old Judges. How was the "bunch" you saw distributed - one dealer with lots of them, a handful of dealers with quite a few of them, many dealers with five or less of them?

[david_l]

Assuming anyone pays attention, did you see a selection of oddball pre-WW1 sports/Olympic cards (T218, T221, E229, etc.)? There's probably not much demand but I'd love to go somewhere and be able to browse these sort of sets.

[Steve D]

Anyone see any tougher Joe Jackson cards for sale?

Tony


A thread over at CU had this picture with an E90-1 Jackson for sale.

(Dealer's booth is "Luckiest Man"):

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag449/Conrad2141/image_zps2fnoufgc.jpeg

Steve

[david_l]

Wow.

[ullmandds]

I love when the term "set" is used creatively!!!!


A thread over at CU had this picture with an E90-1 Jackson for sale.

(Dealer's booth is "Luckiest Man"):

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag449/Conrad2141/image_zps2fnoufgc.jpeg

Steve

[uyu906]

I have been away on vacation and will not be able to attend the show at all this year. :(

I have been scanning the posts in this thread and this is the first mention I have seen about 19th century material, specifically Old Judges. How was the "bunch" you saw distributed - one dealer with lots of them, a handful of dealers with quite a few of them, many dealers with five or less of them?

I saw about 5 dealers with Old Judges. I believe the dealer that had the most had about 25 total. The other four had about 10 each.

[uyu906]

Assuming anyone pays attention, did you see a selection of oddball pre-WW1 sports/Olympic cards (T218, T221, E229, etc.)? There's probably not much demand but I'd love to go somewhere and be able to browse these sort of sets.

I did notice one dealer who had a at least one display case with pre - WWI sports cards, and 1 case of pre-WWII sports cards. Saw at least 3 dealers with the pre-WWII Olympic sports cards.

[uyu906]

I love when the term "set" is used creatively!!!!

Good point - but it was an impressive display. When I looked at it, I wondered if many collectors think in terms of these as sets, or if it was just a marketing ploy for expensive cards.

[uyu906]

Rich, I did see some E210s at the show on Thursday & Friday, but not all that many. I do specifically recall seeing a couple of York Caramel WaJos.

Rats! I still need a Johnson. Oh, well. . . .

[spacktrack]

I just posted a few dozen pictures of our display at the show on Facebook for those of you who weren't able to make it to AC. Check them out and give us a like for more updates as it gets closer to the auction.

https://www.facebook.com/RobertEdwardAuctions/

We've met dozens of Net54ers this week, given out a lot of pins, and even steered some new members to the board. It's been a great show for us, and we picked up some incredible stuff that we can't wait to show off.

Brian

[gnaz01]

I just posted a few dozen pictures of our display at the show on Facebook for those of you who weren't able to make it to AC. Check them out and give us a like for more updates as it gets closer to the auction.

https://www.facebook.com/RobertEdwardAuctions/

We've met dozens of Net54ers this week, given out a lot of pins, and even steered some new members to the board. It's been a great show for us, and we picked up some incredible stuff that we can't wait to show off.

Brian

Awesome pics, Brian.

[david_l]

I did notice one dealer who had a at least one display case with pre - WWI sports cards, and 1 case of pre-WWII sports cards. Saw at least 3 dealers with the pre-WWII Olympic sports cards.

Neat. I'm glad to hear people are displaying and selling them. Thanks for letting me know.

[Steve D]

Here are some pictures a CU member posted on their boards, showing BBCE's recent "Arizona Find" of Old Judges:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0287.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0289.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0291.jpg

Steve

[Steve D]

Here's more from the CU boards:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0263.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0264.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0265.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0346.jpg

Steve

[Joe_G.]

My awesome dad for all his help this weekend. I was recently diagnosed with Lyme disease after a nearly year long battle they finally figured out what it was. It has left me weak and tired and he has certainly picked up the slack for me. If I seemed aloof or stand offish to anyone this weekend I apologize. Again Love you dad and thanks for all of your tremendous help.

Sorry to hear this Glyn, so many times Lyme disease is diagnosed late which makes treating it a bit more challenging. Hang in there, hope you are on the path to a full recovery with no long term issues.

Best Regards,
Joe G.

[Joe_G.]

Love Brian's pics of REA booth, can't wait for fall auction!

The Arizona Find OJs look fantastic, some nice cards mixed in there.

[Stonepony]

Here's more from the CU boards:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0263.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0264.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0265.jpg
http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0346.jpg

Steve


Wow

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Here's more from the CU boards:

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k602/davidratliff4/2016%20National/IMG_0263.jpg

Really? Stickers directly on the slabs?

[glynparson]

The stickers are directly on the flab. It's no problem if you use removable ones. Cards look like crap displayed in bags and customers want the cards priced sovthey need not ask prices. Probably something you should consider if you are setting up at your show.

[Huck]

Also, with high end cards like those depicted, the dealer does not have to keep opening and closing the case, which helps diminish the chance of a duo working in tandem to steal cards.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The stickers are directly on the flab. It's no problem if you use removable ones. Cards look like crap displayed in bags and customers want the cards priced sovthey need not ask prices. Probably something you should consider if you are setting up at your show.

Hi Glyn, met you with David Birmingham. It's my experience that even removable stickers become less removable with time. I'm assuming those are yours? I was mesmerized by your T206 display, so I must've missed them!

I bag and sticker my cards. Different strokes. The stickers in question are indeed small and well-placed, it just surprised me to see them on the slab. With your inventory you clearly don't need me telling you what to do!

Speaking of my show...

[glynparson]

Not part of mine but I do sticker. I'll have to check out the bags you use may be better than what I have tried. I am honestly not sure if I will be in town that weekend I will have to check. Dave is agreat guy it was nice meeting you. I believe we sat next to each other at an auction of his back when it was in Hershey. I remember winning a nice 1962 Maris not sure what else either of us bought that day. I'll be at his September sale hope to see you. If I find I am free I may give you a call about the show you are certainly putting in some effort for which I applaud you many promoters don't work so hard. I think this could be a nice consistent show if you keep pushing.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That's some memory! Hershey was at least 3 years ago now!

September I'm at a show but I will definitely be at his auctions October and November, though October conflicts with Chantilly.

Thanks for the encouragement, trust me there are times when I think "man this takes a ton of work to even try to do correctly!" but I really feel like most shows the dealers are just commodities and I want them to feel more like partners. Any thoughts you might have feel free to PM me! We're always listening.

The dream is to eventually grow it into a large multi-day show. Split Rock has the facilities and they've been a great partner so far. We expect to take a loss this time out, we just hope we don't lose our shirts!

Thanks again, and you really do have amazing stuff! Anyone looking for a great T206 selection tomorrow you HAVE to stop by Glyn's booth.

[Tennis13]

Really? Stickers directly on the slabs?

This is the place I bought my Gehrig. Sticker didn't even cross my mind. I bought last year's card with a sticker on back. Is that a faux pas? If so, why? It made it so much easier for me to shop and walk through the show quicker.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Just that some people (one of whom is me) have had bad experiences with stickers leaving very difficult to remove residue. If the sticker hasn't been on long it shouldn't be a problem. But even removable stickers can get dicey if they've been on a while, or have sat and baked in a hot car etc...

If the stickers came off for you no problem than there's definitely no issue. I also whole-heartedly agree that it is nicer to shop at the table of someone who has his inventory priced as opposed to feeling like I'm getting sized up when I ask for a price.

[Al C.risafulli]

I was really impressed with this year's show, it was one of the better Nationals I can remember. In terms of consignments, it was the best show LOTG has ever had; I'd even say it was better than any TWO shows we've done, combined. The fall auction is going to be an outstanding one.

That said, the best part of the National, for me, is spending time with everyone and getting to meet and shake hands with so many Net54 members. It never ceases to amaze me how awesome everyone is, and how much fun I have at the show, just talking with people.

Handwritten Springsteen lyrics aside, my favorite items that I saw this year were the Christy Mathewson military ID in Kevin Keating's booth, along with a stunning Goodwin Round Album with its pages all professionally matted and framed to make a beautiful display.

And of course another awesome thing was what seemed like an increase in the number of kids who were there, opening packs and getting genuinely enthusiastic about what they got.

One last highlight was the fact that DJ brought a 1984 Topps rack pack box to the booth, and it stayed there for two or three days. During that time, various collectors would occasionally stop by and open a pack, and we'd sit there and reminisce about pulling a Mattingly or a Strawberry out of a pack back in those days. Thanks to DJ for the great conversation piece.

Can't wait til next year's show!

-Al

[Snapolit1]

Every time I saw you Al you had two fists full of holders and another stack or two on the table waiting to be looked at. Can't wait for the next auction.

[GasHouseGang]

I saw this 30 minute video of a stroll around the convention that was posted by Steel City Collectibles. It's at least a small fix for those of us that didn't get to attend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uABhfN7pRks

[gnaz01]

That first dealer they show is kinda shady :D:D:D (hey Dan)

[vintagerookies51]

Do the majority of people actually go to the National ready to buy? I'd imagine if I went it would be more for the experience rather than paying more for cards that are readily available on eBay for much less... Or are some prices there comparable?

[ullmandds]

I go to the national with a pocket full of cash...prepared to buy if I see something I want. From my experience the last 5-8 years....I will likely not employ this tactic anymore if I ever attend a national again.

For me it would be a social experience with the cards taking a back seat.

As many have said for what it has cost me in the past to attend the chicago show...I could have stayed home and added a decent ruth...or aaron rookie to my collection.

[Leon]

Do the majority of people actually go to the National ready to buy? I'd imagine if I went it would be more for the experience rather than paying more for cards that are readily available on eBay for much less... Or are some prices there comparable?

Just like anywhere else there are great deals to be had at Nationals. It just takes effort.

[basesareempty]

I saw about 5 dealers with Old Judges. I believe the dealer that had the most had about 25 total. The other four had about 10 each.

Steve and Reed from Baseball card Exchange had a nice grouping of 25-30 OJ's from a recent find in Arizona in PSA 4-6 range that were really nice. If you just wrote off that entire area because he was located in the unopened/corporate area you missed them.

[packs]

I found a lot of the prices to be out of control. I tried to work with some dealers but they were often only willing to budge $100 or so on their cards. Trying to sell was a nightmare as well. For some reason their cards always seemed to be worth more and my cards always seemed to be worth less by virtue of who owned them.

[bobbyw8469]

I found a lot of the prices to be out of control. I tried to work with some dealers but they were often only willing to budge $100 or so on their cards. Trying to sell was a nightmare as well. For some reason their cards always seemed to be worth more and my cards always seemed to be worth less by virtue of who owned them.

Yea....I thought used car salesmen were bad! :p

[rats60]

Do the majority of people actually go to the National ready to buy? I'd imagine if I went it would be more for the experience rather than paying more for cards that are readily available on eBay for much less... Or are some prices there comparable?

It is like any show. Some dealers are there to sell cards and some are museums. Last year I got a good deal on a t206 Magie. See the thread on the M116 Bates. There are reasonable prices on some cards, but you can also get good buys on things that rarely hit Ebay.

[Steve_NY]

I have done 34 nationals and have seen the good and the bad, well not very bad except for both earlier nationals in A.C. So I kind of expected this A. C. to be similar. In fact this was probably my best national in 10 to 15 years.

If you pick up many new acquisitions, and don't bring the same display every year, you are bound to do well if you are different than everyone else. If you load your display with 1950s and 1960s cards, you will not do well unless you already have a defined client base that buys from you every year.

For example, a potential customer saw that I had the best graded Cuban, Japanese and Caribbean cards. He asked if I had any Valenzuelan cards, and I responded that I had a 1962 Spahn in grade 7, 8, 9 or 10. He said that was impossible and wanted to see the card. It was in grade 7, and is the highest grade being a 1 of 2. He wanted to do some research on it, and left to contact me this week. I am not counting the days, because I let my stock sell itself; if he decides against it, such is life.

My point is that if you don't visit every table, you will never know what you are missing. Five of the cards that have already been posted as pickups were from me. I am not one of the big guys who pick up large finds, but I tend to focus on special items that are in demand or no one has ever seen it, including me.

Stop by next year as I am the 8th booth straight in the door.

But I will report that I have spoken to many other dealers who responded that they were down in sales from 20% to 50% or more. Maybe I was just lucky but before the show opened to the public, I was already up almost 200% from last year, so this was a great show for me.

Steve Sabow
Dynamictwo@aol.com

[Exhibitman]

I have been to every National since 2003. This was the worst. Logistically, it was a nightmare for anyone traveling from the West. AC is not near anything, really, and has a small airport that is served only by Spirit, which is the worst airline around. I had to split my trip into two pieces to get in and out of there and maintain my sanity in the process. It was an ordeal. It is actually easier to get to London from L.A.

As a consequence of the travel logistics and the higher cost of hotels for the show, a good many vintage dealers did not make the journey or did so but only with what they could carry on a plane. That was problematic for me. I tend to collect oddball items, regional cards, team issues, etc., so when the bulk is missing from the booths, so is my target material. I need to pick lots of random stuff to find the items I collect; little of that at the show. There was quite a bit of nice mainstream slabbery, but that really isn't my speed at a show. I can get that stuff on eBay or in any of the dozens of AH's.

I basically finished my real shopping by Thursday and spent the rest of my time filling in items in my postwar mainstream collection. Nice cards and cheap, but hardly worth a trip to AC. I really only got three decent prewar items, another Thorpe strip card in the Indian headdress and a pair of Diamond Dust cards (Grove and Vandermeer), both on Wednesday morning during set-up.

One more rant: there is no friggin' way that the National needs that much floor space. That is just nonsense. The sheer amount of dead space and useless area on that show floor was proof. The corporate carpet was vast and empty, and the pack break pavilion was also big and basically deserted.

On the plus side, I did get to meet and chat with Riddick Bowe, 2x heavyweight champ and HOFer, and get him to sign a ticket from one of his Holyfield fights:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/websize/Bowe.jpg

And I got this graded:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/1955%20Topps%20Clemente.jpg

And this too:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/saleholding/websize/1997%20Browns%20Mayweather.jpg

Plus, I was able to drop off my order with SGC for their August special and give them the Thorpe and the Diamond Dust cards in that order, a cost and effort saver.

[ls7plus]

A lot of effort went into your post, Tennis13. Especially after spending time on the floor at Nationals. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you.

Joe

A big +1 on that--thanks much for taking the time!

Larry

[ls7plus]

One of the more interesting things I've seen is the dealer who had a stacked full case of 60's decade Mantles...all raw. He was happy that he had sold over 200 Mantles already, mostly to dealers. Doesn't seem to care that he's leaving money on the table...the collector that I was with explained that this dealer doesn't believe in grading. I'm sure the dealers buying those Mantles do though...



Cheers,
Steve

I'm personally more than a bit suspicious when a dealer has what appear to be NmMt or better valuable cards and they claim they don't believe in grading--caveat emptor, as a lot of danger lurks there. Hopefully the dealers buying knew what to look for in terms of edges and print dot patterns.

Thanks for the report, Steve,

Larry

[ls7plus]

there appears to be no shortage of jordan rookies at this years national!

Why would there be a shortage--in nearly 30 years of collecting, this card has never been in short supply.

Best wishes, Pete,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Sorry to hear this Glyn, so many times Lyme disease is diagnosed late which makes treating it a bit more challenging. Hang in there, hope you are on the path to a full recovery with no long term issues.

Best Regards,
Joe G.

Absolutely! My prayers go out for you.

Best always,

Larry

[ullmandds]

Why would there be a shortage--in nearly 30 years of collecting, this card has never been in short supply.

Best wishes, Pete,

Larry

well the sentiment seemed to be that the demand for jordan rookies was insatiable...perhaps not? To justify the ridiculous prices being paid for 9's and 10's...you'd think supply was short.

[Tennis13]

A big +1 on that--thanks much for taking the time!

Larry

Anytime. I can't begin to tell you how much help everyone on this board has been to me the past 8 or so months I've been on. I had someone help me just the other day. Just trying to put in as much as I take out.

[ls7plus]

Just like anywhere else there are great deals to be had at Nationals. It just takes effort.

+++1. Didn't go this year, but came away with a 1913-1915 Pinkerton Matty (thanks, Glyn!) and a '34 Gold Medal Flour Dean (his 30-7 season--2.65 ERA when the league ERA was over 4.00!) last year in Chicago. Two treasures for me (and thanks to Leon for his input on the Matty).

Regards,

Larry

[toppcat]

To me there are five Nationals in one:

1) Vintage Card National
2) Modern Shiny Card National
3) Corporate/Case Break/Hit The Lottery National
4) Autograph Guest National
5) Hang Out With Your Hobby Friends National

I'm only interested in 1) and 5) but I guess that 2), 3) and 4) are what pay the bills.

[Jewish-collector]

You can also add in groups and/or subgroups

Non-Sports collectors
Baseball Memorabilia collectors
Football collectors
Basketball collectors
Hockey collectors
Golf collectors
Racing card collectors
etc,...

[Snapolit1]

Lots of pro wrestling stuff. To each his own. Most seems to be middle aged guys focusing on the stars of the 80s.

[tbob]

Didn't someone post a fake Namath Rookie on the board that was in a PSA holder? I'd be concerned if someone was offering me Namath rookie cards in high grade and large quantity. This same thing happened at one of the early National's when the Rose rookie was first hot and someone made some really convincing fakes. Several dealers bought them and were offering them at their tables. Later it was discovered they were fakes. Several dealers lost some pretty good money. I've seen some of these Rose rookies still floating around with FAKE stamped across the back.

I bought a NRMT 1965 Topps football set recently, minus the Namath card. I bought a Namath reprint on eBay as a placeholder until prices come out of the stratosphere and was shocked when I got it to see how authentic looking it was. It has made me realize that when I get ready to buy a Namath rookie it will be in a graded holder, regardless of condition. The "quality" of reprinted, fake, replicated (whatever you want to call them) cards has become very scary.

[e107collector]

I bought a NRMT 1965 Topps football set recently, minus the Namath card. I bought a Namath reprint on eBay as a placeholder until prices come out of the stratosphere and was shocked when I got it to see how authentic looking it was. It has made me realize that when I get ready to buy a Namath rookie it will be in a graded holder, regardless of condition. The "quality" of reprinted, fake, replicated (whatever you want to call them) cards has become very scary.

Agreed. There seems to be two versions of the reprint. Here is the older one that I saw once in person. Hopefully no one here bought it - $445 for a worthless reprint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Topps-Football-122-Joe-Namath-RC-/222206459600?hash=item33bc897ed0%3Ag%3AOTUAAOSwTZ1 Xn1I7&nma=true&si=M4gyrpCyTloyMESJLwnJeBHwVPQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

You could tell very easily on this example. See the tops of the letters in his name - they seem to have white on the tops that give it a 3D type look. The color is sort of faded in person.

The newer example seems too goo to be true. Just be careful and leery when buying a high dollar, ungraded card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-topps-joe-namath-rookie-hof-vg-ex-please-read-listing/122073461175?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3Da4a2f586eaba4946a95 9022ad4b9d9b2%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%2 6mehot%3Des%26sd%3D222206459600

Just my two cents.

Tony

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Agreed. There seems to be two versions of the reprint. Here is the older one that I saw once in person. Hopefully no one here bought it - $445 for a worthless reprint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Topps-Football-122-Joe-Namath-RC-/222206459600?hash=item33bc897ed0%3Ag%3AOTUAAOSwTZ1 Xn1I7&nma=true&si=M4gyrpCyTloyMESJLwnJeBHwVPQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

You could tell very easily on this example. See the tops of the letters in his name - they seem to have white on the tops that give it a 3D type look. The color is sort of faded in person.

The newer example seems too goo to be true. Just be careful and leery when buying a high dollar, ungraded card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-topps-joe-namath-rookie-hof-vg-ex-please-read-listing/122073461175?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3Da4a2f586eaba4946a95 9022ad4b9d9b2%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%2 6mehot%3Des%26sd%3D222206459600

Just my two cents.

Tony

Please stop calling these reprints. Reprints are legal authorized reproductions, these are counterfeits and have no place in the hobby. I am CONSTANTLY reporting counterfeits being listed as reprints on ebay. Join me!

[tschock]

You can also add in groups and/or subgroups

Non-Sports collectors
Baseball Memorabilia collectors
Football collectors
Basketball collectors
Hockey collectors
Golf collectors
Racing card collectors
etc,...

Color me confused, but isn't it called the National Sports Collectors Convention? :D

[glynparson]

Thnak you to those showing concern. My condition has improved greatly since my illness was identified and i took a regimen of antibiotics. I truly am feeling like myself again and am optimistic i will make a full recovery. Hopefully continue heading in the right direction and hope to be fully back to my old self by Chicago.

[Leon]

The quality of a lot of fakes and counterfeits has got a lot better the last few years, so it seems.
I bought a NRMT 1965 Topps football set recently, minus the Namath card. I bought a Namath reprint on eBay as a placeholder until prices come out of the stratosphere and was shocked when I got it to see how authentic looking it was. It has made me realize that when I get ready to buy a Namath rookie it will be in a graded holder, regardless of condition. The "quality" of reprinted, fake, replicated (whatever you want to call them) cards has become very scary.

[Yoda]

The quality of a lot of fakes and counterfeits has got a lot better the last few years, so it seems.

I know all to well. I brought to the National a Wolverine PC of Cobb (batting) to be graded by SGC. I thought it might have a chance; it passed the sniff and paper tests, I checked with a few folks in the know who said they had never run across a bogus one, there were a few light spots and a corner wrinkle on the reverse, lending credibility and the corners were unevenly rounded. Well, submission made and 2 hrs later the verdict returned as counterfeit. Disappointed sure, but maybe a little wiser. In today's world of old raw baseball cards and PC's caveat emptor.
As an aside, the 2 hrs it took my poor Wolfy Cobb to be graded by SGC would have taken 48 at PSA. The surging crowds practically stampeding PSA and throwing their submissions around stood in stark contrast to SGC which resembled the Last Gulch Saloon with all the boys standing around looking slightly desperate.

[e107collector]

I know all to well. I brought to the National a Wolverine PC of Cobb (batting) to be graded by SGC. I thought it might have a chance; it passed the sniff and paper tests, I checked with a few folks in the know who said they had never run across a bogus one, there were a few light spots and a corner wrinkle on the reverse, lending credibility and the corners were unevenly rounded. Well, submission made and 2 hrs later the verdict returned as counterfeit. Disappointed sure, but maybe a little wiser. In today's world of old raw baseball cards and PC's caveat emptor.
As an aside, the 2 hrs it took my poor Wolfy Cobb to be graded by SGC would have taken 48 at PSA. The surging crowds practically stampeding PSA and throwing their submissions around stood in stark contrast to SGC which resembled the Last Gulch Saloon with all the boys standing around looking slightly desperate.

John,

Any chance you could post an image of the card? I've never seen a counterfeit Wolverine Cobb. Scary stuff

Tony

[begsu1013]

.

[Yoda]

Tony, I would be more than happy to scan if I knew how to. My PC skills are still sorely lacking. But wait... the fact that you and several knowledgeable people have never seen a counterfeit one before gives me faint hope that SGC got it wrong and mine just might be ok. Perhaps PSA or BVG might express a favorable verdict. Or I might just tuck it into my Cobb collection, believe it to be real and say to hell with the grading cos. Just before I submitted the card to SGC, I was sitting behind the cases with a bunch of fellow old geezers swapping baseball card lies at the LOTG table. One of the gentlemen there, probably a Net54 guy whose name I never got, apparently an expert on early baseball PC's, took a look at it for a long time, wasn't happy with a couple minor things but said he thought it might have a chance.

[bnorth]

Tony, I would be more than happy to scan if I knew how to. My PC skills are still sorely lacking. But wait... the fact that you and several knowledgeable people have never seen a counterfeit one before gives me faint hope that SGC got it wrong and mine just might be ok. Perhaps PSA or BVG might express a favorable verdict. Or I might just tuck it into my Cobb collection, believe it to be real and say to hell with the grading cos. Just before I submitted the card to SGC, I was sitting behind the cases with a bunch of fellow old geezers swapping baseball card lies at the LOTG table. One of the gentlemen there, probably a Net54 guy whose name I never got, apparently an expert on early baseball PC's, took a look at it for a long time, wasn't happy with a couple minor things but said he thought it might have a chance.

SGC is very good at spotting counterfeit cards, PSA not so much. You could try them and probably get it into their slab, but if SGC says fake it probably is.

[tedzan]

I bought a NRMT 1965 Topps football set recently, minus the Namath card. I bought a Namath reprint on eBay as a placeholder until prices come out of the stratosphere and was shocked when I got it to see how authentic looking it was. It has made me realize that when I get ready to buy a Namath rookie it will be in a graded holder, regardless of condition. The "quality" of reprinted, fake, replicated (whatever you want to call them) cards has become very scary.
The quality of a lot of fakes and counterfeits has got a lot better the last few years, so it seems.


Bob and Leon, et al

Back in 1982, the Rose rookie counterfeit was pretty darn good. And, if it wasn't for the stupidity of the counterfeiter trying to dump a large number of them
at one BB card show in California, these cards would not have been detected as soon as they were.


Hey guys,

Which one of these Rose rookie cards is a fake ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg



TED Z
.

[bobbyw8469]

Im thinking the one on the right is the fake. I can't imagine a fake having a fisheye.

[swarmee]

One on the right is dead centered, and for this issue that would be rare. But the images of the player heads are clearer/better registered. Right is probably the fake, and as pointed out, a fisheye on a counterfeit would be a dead giveaway if you knew about them. Otherwise, the fisheye might become a "variation" of the card and recognized in price guides.... ;-)

[irv]

Bob and Leon, et al

Back in 1982, the Rose rookie counterfeit was pretty darn good. And, if it wasn't for the stupidity of the counterfeiter trying to dump a large number of them
at one BB card show in California, these cards would not have been detected as soon as they were.


Hey guys,

Which one of these Rose rookie cards is a fake ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg



TED Z
.

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.

Im thinking the one on the right is the fake. I can't imagine a fake having a fisheye.

I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?

[bnorth]

Bob and Leon, et al

Back in 1982, the Rose rookie counterfeit was pretty darn good. And, if it wasn't for the stupidity of the counterfeiter trying to dump a large number of them
at one BB card show in California, these cards would not have been detected as soon as they were.


Hey guys,

Which one of these Rose rookie cards is a fake ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg



TED Z
.

Just a guess but I would say the one on the right because of the extra red tint on the players faces. In hand they are very easy to tell real from fake with a loupe.

What most can't understand is the ability to make very high end counterfeits has been around as long as the ability to make the original card.

[Cmount76]

Im thinking the one on the right is the fake. I can't imagine a fake having a fisheye.

+1

[begsu1013]

usually easier to tell in hand as the stock is noticeably thinner,

but the go to indicator is the bolder black line that outlines pete's cap.

[Pat R]

Bob and Leon, et al

Back in 1982, the Rose rookie counterfeit was pretty darn good. And, if it wasn't for the stupidity of the counterfeiter trying to dump a large number of them
at one BB card show in California, these cards would not have been detected as soon as they were.


Hey guys,

Which one of these Rose rookie cards is a fake ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg



TED Z
.

Unless it's something in the posted scans they both have a small break in the border in the same place.

[tedzan]

Thnak you to those showing concern. My condition has improved greatly since my illness was identified and i took a regimen of antibiotics. I truly am feeling like myself again and am optimistic i will make a full recovery. Hopefully continue heading in the right direction and hope to be fully back to my old self by Chicago.


Glyn

This is good news. I'm really glad to hear that you are getting better.

This is an insidious disease, and it isn't easy to shake.

Our prayers are with you.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

usually easier to tell in hand as the stock is noticeably thinner,

but the go to indicator is the bolder black line that outlines pete's cap.


Bob Evans has the clue. The real Rose rookie does not have Rose's cap outlined. Both of these cards are counterfeits.

Therefore, my next question to any of you is......
If I were to submit this un-stamped "COUNTERFEIT" card to PSA or SGC (or etc.), will this card get a numerical grade ? ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50xb.jpg


TED Z
.

[irv]

Bob Evans has the clue. The real Rose rookie does not have Rose's cap outlined. Both of these cards are counterfeits.

Therefore, my next question to any of you is......
If I were to submit this un-stamped "COUNTERFEIT" card to PSA or SGC (or etc.), will this card get a numerical grade ? ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50xb.jpg


TED Z
.

I still don't/can't see the difference. The print defect on the other card, as someone mentioned, was my guess as well. That "Bold black line" is near impossible to see if you didn't know what to look for, imo.

Curious, is that "bolder black line" the only thing that tells it apart from a real one, or are there other indicators as well?

[ullmandds]

thanks ted...and others...this is valuable info I did not know. the black line around petes head is pretty obvious when compared head to head...no other hints seem necessary.

[Stonepony]

I still don't/can't see the difference. The print defect on the other card, as someone mentioned, was my guess as well. That "Bold black line" is near impossible to see if you didn't know what to look for, imo.

Curious, is that "bolder black line" the only thing that tells it apart from a real one, or are there other indicators as well?

BOTH cards shown are counterfeits. Compare caps against a real one.

[irv]

thanks ted...and others...this is valuable info I did not know. the black line around petes head is pretty obvious when compared head to head...no other hints seem necessary.

You either have better eyes than me or a better computer screen because I honestly can't see the differences? :confused:


BOTH cards shown are counterfeits. Compare caps against a real one.

Seriously? Now I am really confused!! :eek:

[ullmandds]

i think the real blow by blow was occurring in a suite at the trump plaza.

[ullmandds]

You either have better eyes than me or a better computer screen because I honestly can't see the differences? :confused:




Seriously? Now I am really confused!! :eek:

Well I hope my eyes can see as I need them!!!!! google rose rookies and zoom in on the hat...it will become obvious.

Ted...being sly...was trying to trick us...and he certainly tricked me!!!

[tedzan]

I still don't/can't see the difference. The print defect on the other card, as someone mentioned, was my guess as well. That "Bold black line" is near impossible to see if you didn't know what to look for, imo.

Curious, is that "bolder black line" the only thing that tells it apart from a real one, or are there other indicators as well?


Hi Dale

The outlined cap is a very subtle indicator. However, if you have an authentic Rose rookie to make an A - B comparison, it becomes obvious.

I sold my 1963 TOPPS set; therefore, I don't have a Rose rookie to display here. Perhaps some one on this forum will post their Rose rookie.


TED Z
.

[bnorth]

Bob Evans has the clue. The real Rose rookie does not have Rose's cap outlined. Both of these cards are counterfeits.

Therefore, my next question to any of you is......
If I were to submit this un-stamped "COUNTERFEIT" card to PSA or SGC (or etc.), will this card get a numerical grade ? ?


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50xb.jpg


TED Z
.

From personal experience if the card is a decent counterfeit PSA will slab it. From that same personal experience SGC will not. I have never had a Rose counterfeit in hand so can't comment on it.

[irv]

Well I hope my eyes can see as I need them!!!!! google rose rookies and zoom in on the hat...it will become obvious.

Ted...being sly...was trying to trick us...and he certainly tricked me!!!

I will try and do that.

Thanks. :)

Hi Dale

The outlined cap is a very subtle indicator. However, if you have an authentic Rose rookie to make an A - B comparison, it becomes obvious.

I sold my 1963 TOPPS set; therefore, I don't have a Rose rookie to display here. Perhaps some one on this forum will post their Rose rookie.


TED Z
.

Thanks for the info! :)

From personal experience if the card is a decent counterfeit PSA will slab it. From that same personal experience SGC will not. I have never had a Rose counterfeit in hand so can't comment on it.

I'm not surprised to hear that actually. :(

[Steve D]

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.



I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?


I don't remember the value in 1982, but I know that in 1984, the Rose RC was a $400+ card.

Steve

[tedzan]

In the Spring of 1982, the 1963 TOPPS Rose rookie was real "hot". It was selling for about $150.

At the 1982 National in St Louis, I acquired 8 of them (Ex to Ex/Mt). Then sold all 8 of them at the Willow Grove Show for $250 apiece.

By the Summer of 1983, these cards were selling in the $300 - $400 range (for Ex/Mt to near Mint).


TED Z
.

[GasHouseGang]

I went to the St. Louis National in 1982. But I can't remember if it was at that show, or later that they had figured out some of the Rose rookies being sold were fake. I remember it was widely reported later in SCD and you could buy one of the bogus cards with the word FAKE stamped on the back. The fake had become "famous" enough that collectors wanted it.

[FourStrikes]

at the 1991 (?) Anaheim, CA NSSC I believe promoter / co-promoter Jack Petruzzelli (R.I.P.) was one of the first to call B.S. er... pull the metaphorical trigger on the Rose rookie card scam...

from my personal recollection, Jack was a good dude, as well as an Anaheim or Fullerton PD / criminal investigator ???

thanks, JP!.

DS

[Rich Klein]

Jack did the work on discovering and cleaning up the mess from the fake Rose RC's but it was in the 1980's. I think circa 1982 or 3

Rich

[tedzan]

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50x.jpg
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/2xPeteRoserookies50xb.jpg


TED Z
.


Hey guys,

I purchased these two Rose rookie counterfeits at the St Louis National in 1982. These fakes were detected at a California Show earlier that year.
The local police were contacted, they stamped the backs of them (as the card on the right); and, confiscated a lot of them. However, a number of
the fakes were already in circulation (as the un-stamped card on the left).

First, I acquired these 2 counterfeit fakes at the 1982 National so I could distinguish them from the real ones. Then I acquired 8 real Rose rookies
at the 1982 National.


TED Z
.

[GasHouseGang]

OK, that goes along with what thought I remembered, of seeing them at the 1982 National already stamped. Sometimes it's hard to remember what you've forgotten!

[slipk1068]

I sold my 1963 TOPPS set; therefore, I don't have a Rose rookie to display here. Perhaps some one on this forum will post their Rose rookie.


TED Z
.

...

[irv]

You either have better eyes than me or a better computer screen because I honestly can't see the differences? :confused:




Seriously? Now I am really confused!! :eek:

Hey guys,

I purchased these two Rose rookie counterfeits at the St Louis National in 1982. These fakes were detected at a California Show earlier that year.
The local police were contacted, they stamped the backs of them (as the card on the right); and, confiscated a lot of them. However, a number of
the fakes were already in circulation (as the un-stamped card on the left).

First, I acquired these 2 counterfeit fakes at the 1982 National so I could distinguish them from the real ones. Then I acquired 8 real Rose rookies
at the 1982 National.


TED Z
.

Uh! So my eyes weren't playing tricks on me! :D

[Griffins]

All the way back in 82? I had no idea this has been going on for this long?
What was a Rose card worth back then? I can't see it being worth the effort but obviously I am wrong.



I agree with that, and if that is the only clue, that counterfeit is really good, especially if it's a 1982 copy?

At the Anaheim show in '75 (precursor to the National) there was a huge scandal with a group of '59 Fleer #68's that came in that were fake. They looked pretty good and got by many but Irv Lerner wasn't fooled and blew the whistle. The promoters told the seller he wasn't allowed to sell them and I think he ended up walking out. Ended up making front page in SCD. I remember at the time the old time dealers thought that the hobby had too much money in it when a card was faked, and lamented how bad things were getting.

[irv]

At the Anaheim show in '75 (precursor to the National) there was a huge scandal with a group of '59 Fleer #68's that came in that were fake. They looked pretty good and got by many but Irv Lerner wasn't fooled and blew the whistle. The promoters told the seller he wasn't allowed to sell them and I think he ended up walking out. Ended up making front page in SCD. I remember at the time the old time dealers thought that the hobby had too much money in it when a card was faked, and lamented how bad things were getting.

Thanks for sharing that information.

I really didn't think, based on the tech that was available back then, that people would be making counterfeit cards in order to make money.

I was surprised, however, to hear what some of the Rose RC's were worth even way back then, so I can understand it, now, why it goes way back like it does.

[begsu1013]

.

[MW1]

Tony, I would be more than happy to scan if I knew how to. My PC skills are still sorely lacking. But wait... the fact that you and several knowledgeable people have never seen a counterfeit one before gives me faint hope that SGC got it wrong and mine just might be ok. Perhaps PSA or BVG might express a favorable verdict. Or I might just tuck it into my Cobb collection, believe it to be real and say to hell with the grading cos. Just before I submitted the card to SGC, I was sitting behind the cases with a bunch of fellow old geezers swapping baseball card lies at the LOTG table. One of the gentlemen there, probably a Net54 guy whose name I never got, apparently an expert on early baseball PC's, took a look at it for a long time, wasn't happy with a couple minor things but said he thought it might have a chance.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yCFB2akLh4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Steve D]

Thanks for sharing that information.

I really didn't think, based on the tech that was available back then, that people would be making counterfeit cards in order to make money.

I was surprised, however, to hear what some of the Rose RC's were worth even way back then, so I can understand it, now, why it goes way back like it does.

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

[irv]

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

Great information.

Although I wasn't collecting anywhere near then like I am now, I always thought the Hologram was just to "pretty" up the card some. :o

[bnorth]

The counterfeiting of cards was beginning to become more of a problem in the 1980s. Another big card that was counterfeited was the 1984 Donruss Don Mattingly. At it's peak, I believe it was around $150 or so.

In fact, that is why it was such big news when Upper Deck came out in 1989 with the hologram on the backs of their cards, as a deterrent to counterfeiting.

Steve

I thought UD used the hologram so only they could counterfeit their cards.:eek:

[Yoda]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yCFB2akLh4s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Michael, bingo, you got me. But, my God, I hope I didn't look or sound like Jim Carey when sitting at the SGC booth waiting for Scott to render judgement on my Wolverine Cobb. Have you ever seen a counterfeit specimen? Can't believe mine is the only one in existence. Why would anybody go to the effort of producing just one complete with little signature marks? So, see, there is still a chance!