First time I’ve been ripped off

[jonvancouver]

Hey guys,
Just thought I’d share an experience with you as this seller continues to sell on the BST here (for now).
I bought a Piper Bat from Kevin (khkco4bls) and the deal for one bat ballooned into 15 bats. Kevin sent me a lot of pictures of his collection and I said that one day I would like to purchase my first vintage baseball.
He proceeded to offer me a Goldsmith baseball that has the word ATLANTIC across the front. The price was 600 dollars, and that was only because I was already purchasing 15 bats. The Atlantic League was 1896 to 1900 and I told him that I would be so happy to add a ball from that era.

Long story short, I asked Brandon Grunbaum to confirm the age of the ball and he tells me that it’s ball from 1926-1932 and it’s worth 50 to 75 bucks. Not 600. Not rare and certainly not of the era I was told.

I write Kevin and simply tell him that the ball isn’t what he said it was and that I’d like a refund. His first response is that he has another one and when it goes to auction in October, he would refund me the difference.

I responded to that saying that waiting until October is too long and that I never would have bought the ball if he told me what it actually was, regardless if he actually knew or not.

He then responds to me “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

I’ve had countless deals on the forum and every one has been smooth. I’ve never deceived anybody and nor will I ever. I’m thoroughly disappointed that I won’t be refunded but I think it’s fair that everyone knows that when dealing with Kevin, you will not be refunded if unhappy. Heck, he won’t refund me after selling a ball that he completely misrepresented.

I hope that he reconsiders and refunds me my money, but there has been a lot of back and forth and essentially he’s telling me that he knows I’ve been taken but that’s just part of the hobby.
Well it’s certainly not the hobby I want to contribute to.

Rant over.

Jonathan Schwartz

[111gecko]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

[Stonepony]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

I thinks there's bigger issues than your " immediate question".

[pokerplyr80]

It looks like the seller you've accused has many items listed for sale on this site. If this is all true it doesn't say much for his honestly or credibility. Hopefully he will respond and present his side of this story. Returning the item for a refund if it was misrepresented seems like a logical resolution.

[rholmes]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

Remind me to never buy anything from you.

[Leon]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

If I sold you something as authentic and it wasn't would that be your fault?

[jonvancouver]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

After speaking to Kevin over the phone many times, and having many many texts back and forth, there would be no reason to believe he was misrepresenting anything. The prices of the 15 bats were extremely spot on and he came off as trustworthy. In the future, would I buy something like this again without doing research? no way.
In my heart, I believe Kevin was ripped off when he bought the ball originally. And maybe he has too much pride to admit that.

[111gecko]

Saw a few responses and read the original post again.
My bad, I just got hooked on phonics....should have spent more time on it before responding.

[Jeffrompa]

The sellers response is like well we all get ripped off so I'll rip off you too . Totally inappropriate and BS .

[Jason]

Im not sure what your payment method was but that might give you a few different options with regards to the refund.

[jonvancouver]

Im not sure what your payment method was but that might give you a few different options with regards to the refund.

Paypal f/f through my AMEX. You might be on to something. Thankfully, I've never had to go through something like this so I don't know whether AMEX might cover me. I assume that because I paid f/f I'm a little screwed?

[xplainer]

The seller really needs to make this right.
His future sales depend on iy. If you don't stand behind what you sell, then it is all a crapshoot.
Most folks on here would make it right.
I hope he does too.

[Mdmtx]

In my opinion the sale is fraud. Misrepresentation definitely falls in that category.

Mark Medlin

[Joshwesley]

If he doesn't make this right... He should have "sanctions" put on him..

That's complete bull crap from top to bottom. Keep us posted.

[Canofcorn]

Good luck with the refund

[vintagetoppsguy]

Did Kevin tell you the ball was that old, or did you assume the ball was that old? That part of your story isn't quite clear.

If he told you that, yes you deserve a refund because it was misrepresented. If you assumed that, then you should have done more research.

[jonvancouver]

Did Kevin tell you the ball was that old, or did you assume the ball was that old? That part of your story isn't quite clear.

If he told you that, yes you deserve a refund because it was misrepresented. If you assumed that, then you should have done more research.

Hey David,
He told me that. And then when I told him that Brandon said it wasn't from when he said it was, he said that Brandon doesn't know what he is talking about, I to quote his response "Whoever told you that was worth $75 he's totally wrong the ball is not from the 19 thirties there is a later model of the same type with different type faces that is not as early as that one"
To which Brandon replied to me "Comical, "there's a later model that looks the same"...The stuff these guys come up with. Tell him you talked to me, and show him this image. This is not opinion, this is research and fact."

[vintagetoppsguy]

Hey David,
He told me that. And then when I told him that Brandon said it wasn't from when he said it was, he said that Brandon doesn't know what he is talking about, I to quote his response "Whoever told you that was worth $75 he's totally wrong the ball is not from the 19 thirties there is a later model of the same type with different type faces that is not as early as that one"
To which Brandon replied to me "Comical, "there's a later model that looks the same"...The stuff these guys come up with. Tell him you talked to me, and show him this image. This is not opinion, this is research and fact."


Thanks for the reply. Good luck with your refund. Hopefully he'll see the post and make things right.

[glchen]

I hope you get your money back. I do think you have more protection with American Express although I'm not sure how paying via Paypal F/F will affect it. Here's a link: Link (http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=1366281&postcount=19)

[jonvancouver]

I hope you get your money back. I do think you have more protection with American Express although I'm not sure how paying via Paypal F/F will affect it. Here's a link: Link (http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=1366281&postcount=19)

Thank you for the link.
I will speak to AMEX and see what they can do.

Best,
Jonathan

[gnaz01]

I have had one transaction with the OP, and communication was flawless as well as the transaction, VERY SOLID BUYER!!!

[Snapolit1]

To pull that to a good buyer -- who purchased a lot of bats in the same transaction -- is very poor form. To put it charitably.

[drmondobueno]

Yesterday I had a NET54 member send me a PM and offer me a card he had on eBay he thought I might like.....
I liked it and we agreed to price...then they backed out and decided to take it to the National. Pissed me off because he approached me..and I agreed to his price...but at least money didn't change hands

Just a frustrating waste of time and bad experience because I did like the card a lot.

I would expect that bullcrap from Blowoutcards members, not NET54

Out the person. Period.

[xplainer]

Yesterday I had a NET54 member send me a PM and offer me a card he had on eBay he thought I might like.....
I liked it and we agreed to price...then they backed out and decided to take it to the National. Pissed me off because he approached me..and I agreed to his price...but at least money didn't change hands

Just a frustrating waste of time and bad experience because I did like the card a lot.

I would expect that bullcrap from Blowoutcards members, not NET54

Yes, this needs to be covered too. Occurs everyday at Blowout. Net54 seems to be more mature collectors. More vintage inclinded.

If no one has, and apparently not, I will PM the seller of the ball and alert them of this thread. We need to hear his angle on it.

EDIT: Just sent a PM with a link to this thread. He was last on at 4:51 today.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

What a douche of a seller. Yeah, Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about, ok. Has a book on the history of the baseball for no reason I guess lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[baseball tourist]

I have had one transaction with the OP, and communication was flawless as well as the transaction, VERY SOLID BUYER!!!

I second that and it's not just because he is a local that could take a ferry over to my house and bring his baseball bats to motivate a fair deal,'if needed ;).

I hope this gets resolved fairly ASAP.

[Stetson_1883]

Def contact AMEX. They usually cover their clients even if its the clients fault (which it isnt in this situation).

Best of luck!

[shammus]

Hey David,
He told me that. And then when I told him that Brandon said it wasn't from when he said it was, he said that Brandon doesn't know what he is talking about, I to quote his response "Whoever told you that was worth $75 he's totally wrong the ball is not from the 19 thirties there is a later model of the same type with different type faces that is not as early as that one"
To which Brandon replied to me "Comical, "there's a later model that looks the same"...The stuff these guys come up with. Tell him you talked to me, and show him this image. This is not opinion, this is research and fact."

Just a thought, maybe you could post a couple clear scans of the ball and then let a few of the other memorabilia experts on the forum weigh in on this one? Then it wouldn't be a case of simply Kevin's word vs. Brandon's. You'd have a much stronger case here if other's could weigh on whether the ball came from the 1896-1900 era vs. the 20s or 30s.

And yes, if he misrepresented the ball to you, that's a clear case of needing to give you a full refund. He needs to make that right.

[7nohitter]

The fact that this ball was being purchased in ADDITION to a large number of bats, and I'm assuming that was no small purchase, and the seller is yanking your chain like this? Unethical and in very poor form.

Over the years I've been on 54, I've seen instances where one's reputation can be eternally tarnished, deservedly so, because of a very poor choice. I truly hope the seller makes this right.

[slidekellyslide]

I second Brian, I would like to see photos of this ball.

[jonvancouver]

Hey all,
Here are the pics of the ball.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/20160629_122643.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/20160629_122643.jpg.html)

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/20160629_122651.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/20160629_122651.jpg.html)

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/20160629_122718.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/20160629_122718.jpg.html)

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/20160629_122724.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/20160629_122724.jpg.html)

And finally here is just a baseline PDF that Brandon sent me to clearly illustrate how that logo alone proves the year.

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/GOLDSMITH%20-LOGO-DATING.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/GOLDSMITH%20-LOGO-DATING.jpg.html)

Brandon also said that he could get into the materials etc but with this case is so clearly evident. Brandon says the ball is Canvas and that it's the 126-1932 equivalent of a ball sold in Dick's Sporting Goods today.

Not sure how much more info I could provide and when I sent Kevin this info, his tune changed to offering me the refund based on what his other ball sells for in October. Some people...

[mechanicalman]

Paypal f/f through my AMEX. You might be on to something. Thankfully, I've never had to go through something like this so I don't know whether AMEX might cover me. I assume that because I paid f/f I'm a little screwed?

Not to take this off topic, but I thought you could only do Paypal f/f from your bank account, not Amex. Unless it changed?

Regardless, I hope this situation works out for the OP. Never a good strategy for a seller to "pay it forward" in a negative way.

[jonvancouver]

Not to take this off topic, but I thought you could only do Paypal f/f from your bank account, not Amex. Unless it changed?

Regardless, I hope this situation works out for the OP. Never a good strategy for a seller to "pay it forward" in a negative way.

Sh*t I just went back and looked at the transaction and it wasn't f/f.
I pay f/f about 95% of the time and for some reason I guess on this one I didn't.
I'm calling AMEX now to see what my options are.
Thanks for your post as it motivated me to log into my paypal account to double check. Much appreciated.

[mechanicalman]

Sh*t I just went back and looked at the transaction and it wasn't f/f.
I pay f/f about 95% of the time and for some reason I guess on this one I didn't.
I'm calling AMEX now to see what my options are.
Thanks for your post as it motivated me to log into my paypal account to double check. Much appreciated.

That's actually a happy accident. Regular PayPal and Amex give more protection. One thing to know: once you file an Amex claim, you can't do anything through PayPal; they automatically take the seller's side. Might be better to go through Paypal, then Amex, if PP doesn't help.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

That's good news, that means you can get paypal involved if you don't want to bother with Amex.

EDIT: Sam types faster

[xplainer]

I don't understand. He sent you a pdf. that is showing the logo on the ball, is from 1926-1932? Yet, sold it as a pre 1900 ball, for 600 bucks?

I must be missing something.

[Joshchisox08]

I guess the immediate question is: you spent $600 on a ball that you did no research on until after you paid for it?
Am I reading this incorrectly?

If it was being advertised as something it wasn't you shouldn't have to do the research.

At least not off of this site. This is the one site that I feel as though I can trust everyone.

[jonvancouver]

I don't understand. He sent you a pdf. that is showing the logo on the ball, is from 1926-1932? Yet, sold it as a pre 1900 ball, for 600 bucks?

I must be missing something.

The PDF is what Brandon sent me to clearly show that the ball was not pre 1900.
Kevin only offered the "let's see what my other one sells for in October" after I forwarded the PDF to him to prove that the ball was 1926-1932

[1952boyntoncollector]

Yesterday I had a NET54 member send me a PM and offer me a card he had on eBay he thought I might like.....
I liked it and we agreed to price...then they backed out and decided to take it to the National. Pissed me off because he approached me..and I agreed to his price...but at least money didn't change hands

Just a frustrating waste of time and bad experience because I did like the card a lot.

I would expect that bullcrap from Blowoutcards members, not NET54

'the going to the National' is the excuse we will hear now on any deals that fall through when it looked like a deal would go for a certain price but now the National has sprung up so the seller thinks can get more money there...

of course if they dont get that price they still dont come down even though 1000s of people who saw the card there didnt buy it...so just one of those fun fake excuses

[xplainer]

The PDF is what Brandon sent me to clearly show that the ball was not pre 1900.
Kevin only offered the "let's see what my other one sells for in October" after I forwarded the PDF to him to prove that the ball was 1926-1932

OK, yeah, I understand now. Brandon sent you the pdf. Pretty much a closed case.

I really want to hear from the seller.
He probably was lied to on purchase, but he should take the hit on the resale, when shown, it was not as presented.

[ibuysportsephemera]

The fact that you purchased so many items from the seller should have resulted in an immediate refund. I would like to hear his side of the story, but until he replies (if he does) shame on him for such poor customer service.

Jeff

[xplainer]

'the going to the National' is the excuse we will hear now on any deals that fall through when it looked like a deal would go for a certain price but now the National has sprung up so the seller thinks can get more money there...

of course if they dont get that price they still dont come down even though 1000s of people who saw the card there didnt buy it...so just one of those fun fake excuses

Yeah, but come on. A price was agreed to, then detached because of the NATIONAL?

Really? Not acceptable, as far as I am concerned.

[jonvancouver]

He probably was lied to on purchase,

My thoughts exactly. And if that was the case he could have been honest with me about it. If he was lied to, than I do feel bad for him too, but I've clearly shown him that the ball is not what he sold it to me as and he should refund me my money. The total deal was around 2500 USD.

[1952boyntoncollector]

My thoughts exactly. And if that was the case he could have been honest with me about it. If he was lied to, than I do feel bad for him too, but I've clearly shown him that the ball is not what he sold it to me as and he should refund me my money. The total deal was around 2500 USD.

right...it like he trying to 'win' ....he should just refund the money....people dont like being victims..but they should like more being an ethical seller

[jason.1969]

If the OP is telling the whole story, I'm appalled that no refund has been made. This seems like outright theft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The silence (from the seller) is deafening.

[earlywynnfan]

The silence (from the seller) is deafening.

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

[Fred]

Is the second ball being taken to the National the same vintage as the one you purchased? If so, and the seller is now aware of the vintage, why would he try to sell it as an older ball at the National?

[deeg23]

That's pretty shady! I actually PM'd the seller a few days ago about one of his BST listings, but haven't heard anything back. Thanks for posting this and making us all aware. You def deserve a refund!!!!

[pokerplyr80]

That's actually a happy accident. Regular PayPal and Amex give more protection. One thing to know: once you file an Amex claim, you can't do anything through PayPal; they automatically take the seller's side. Might be better to go through Paypal, then Amex, if PP doesn't help.

Agreed. Paypal claim first. No reason to contact Amex yet.

[jonvancouver]

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

I wholeheartedly agree. It is my belief that he was completely taken when the ball was sold to him, and now he is too proud to admit it. If that isn't the case, then he is a complete scam-artist. He put the ball in an era, and it ends up not being from that era so those are really the only two explanations as to how that could happen.
Look, at the end of the day it isn't 5K or 10K, so I can at least be thankful for that. That being said, I wanted to get as much info on the ball as possible because I was proud to have something like that in my collection. When I sit in my baseball room with my 5 year old son, we talk about the history of the game, and we handle the items because that's how we enjoy it. It's not enjoyable to show him the ball that I got ripped off on.

I gave him a chance to take that out. When I originally emailed him I said that the ball isn't what WE thought. That gives him the out to say "crap, well I must have been lied to when I bought it so return it for a refund and I'm sorry" or some iteration about that.
Instead he said that Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about.
Then I emailed him the PDF reference to show the different Goldsmith logos and their years of usage.
Then he responds that he can refund me the difference after his other ball sells in October.
Then I tell him that it's a little much for me to have to wait until October for a refund.
His response was “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

THAT is where he crossed the line with me.

It's 100% unacceptable.

[slidekellyslide]

Is the cover of that ball canvas? It knid of appears so which would make it a more a kids playground or carnival type ball. Either way the logo proves it to be much later than what it was sold to you as and you deserve a full refund on it.

[slidekellyslide]

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

Well, he was on the board as of 9 PM CDT tonight, he may not have seen this post, but he was here.

[jonvancouver]

Is the cover of that ball canvas? It knid of appears so which would make it a more a kids playground or carnival type ball. Either way the logo proves it to be much later than what it was sold to you as and you deserve a full refund on it.

Brandon said that it is canvas. Also of note, he said that it would have been a regular ball that was bought from the equivalent of todays Dicks Sporting Goods.

[jonvancouver]

Double post by mistake.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I wholeheartedly agree. It is my belief that he was completely taken when the ball was sold to him, and now he is too proud to admit it. If that isn't the case, then he is a complete scam-artist. He put the ball in an era, and it ends up not being from that era so those are really the only two explanations as to how that could happen.
Look, at the end of the day it isn't 5K or 10K, so I can at least be thankful for that. That being said, I wanted to get as much info on the ball as possible because I was proud to have something like that in my collection. When I sit in my baseball room with my 5 year old son, we talk about the history of the game, and we handle the items because that's how we enjoy it. It's not enjoyable to show him the ball that I got ripped off on.

I gave him a chance to take that out. When I originally emailed him I said that the ball isn't what WE thought. That gives him the out to say "crap, well I must have been lied to when I bought it so return it for a refund and I'm sorry" or some iteration about that.
Instead he said that Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about.
Then I emailed him the PDF reference to show the different Goldsmith logos and their years of usage.
Then he responds that he can refund me the difference after his other ball sells in October.
Then I tell him that it's a little much for me to have to wait until October for a refund.
His response was “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

THAT is where he crossed the line with me.

It's 100% unacceptable.

I got to an age when people say they will 'pay AFTER this or that' (in this case after he sells a ball in October) i just dont ever accept anymore....we probably here the old 'waiting on my tax refund' excuse..

if you took your money he should have the money RIGHT now to pay back...why does he make you have to be unconfortable waiting for your money when he easily can be the unconfortable one refunding you now...then he can waiting till October to resolve his money issue.......you have bills to pay now...... slow pay with conditions is the same is no pay to me ..

i may get in back and forth on some on some posts..but you will see its never about an actual sale of a card and a dissatisfied buyer...i not sure how you dont refund the money on that issue immediately i know i woudl

[slidekellyslide]

Brandon said that it is canvas. Also of note, he said that it would have been a regular ball that was bought from the equivalent of todays Dicks Sporting Goods.

Agreed, no professional baseball league would have used that ball.

[jonvancouver]

I got to an age when people say they will 'pay AFTER this or that' (in this case after he sells a ball in October) i just dont ever accept anymore....we probably here the old 'waiting on my tax refund' excuse..

if you took your money he should have the money RIGHT now to pay back...why does he make you have to be unconfortable waiting for your money when he easily can be the unconfortable one refunding you now...then he can waiting till October to resolve his money issue.......you have bills to pay now...... slow pay with conditions is the same is no pay to me ..

i may get in back and forth on some on some posts..but you will see its never about an actual sale of a card and a dissatisfied buyer...i not sure how you dont refund the money on that issue immediately i know i woudl

And take your point (which I agree with) one step further, I don't even WANT a 1926-1932 canvas baseball that has nothing to do with a professional league. If he would have told me what it was when he offered it to me, I would have said no thank you.
So to wait until October to see what it sells for, ONLY to be able to get a refund for the difference makes absolutely no sense. I simply don't want it. I've told Kevin that I don't want it and that I can't wait until October for a partial refund. His response was "what I sent you is the best I can do"

Unacceptable.

[deeg23]

I agree that he probably got taken when he bought it. I can't see, after this thread, how he wouldn't give you a refund. He seems to be a great contributor here and not really worth it. Hey, it's past midnight... Happy 4th errbody!

[ibuysportsephemera]

Not to pile on, but I thought that khkco4bls did something a little shady in June in this thread http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=213750&highlight=andy+sandler. Basically he took another seller's for sale thread and listed his own item in that thread. In my opinion that was bad form...Just my 2¢.

Jeff

[ruth-gehrig]

He is at least viewing this thread at the moment.

[khkco4bls]

Let's talk about Jonathan for a minute he did this deal with me talked about how much he was so excited to get these items and so excited to have all these bats and the ball he was so excited to put them in his collection this is what he was telling me when we made the deal told me to ship the whole bag of items to Pennsylvania where his buddy lives. Jonathan is in Washington state. Then he proceeded the next day to have his friend put them all up on eBay for profit I have no problem with him doing that he should have just told me that in the first place and I'm telling you right now since he couldn't hawk the baseball and make money on it he wants to return it 4 months later 4 months. not a week, week and a half for months so who Shady here Jonathan. and obviously appears to me that Jonathan didn't do is homework. Yes I do have the same ball in the box that is going up in REA including my whole collection in October I'm not going to the National. Jonathan is nothing but an eBay store looking to make profit on everything he buys it's not for his collection like he says. The guy emailed me last week and asked you have any more baseballs to sell and then he comes up with this. So let's make sure we tell the whole story Jonathan not just what you think in your head. And yes I bought mine with the box from Bob McCann I didn't get ripped off in any way when I bought them so let's stop all that nonsense and Bob McCann obviously Miss informed me of the dating of the ball

[khkco4bls]

By the way how my basketball item wound up in somebody else's thread I don't know and didn't know until I read this it was supposed to be on the my own thread

[khkco4bls]

I have never ever had a problem selling items to anybody on here or outside of here until now he will get his refund I got to get it together. But his partner in Pennsylvania who ever it is I'm nothing but an eBay store or Hawking items that they buy from other people. That kind of bothered me because he tells me how excited he was to get all these items he's full of crap

[gnaz01]

4 months???? :confused:

[ibuysportsephemera]

4 months and items being sent for a quick turn to the eBay store....And now the plot thickens, can't wait for the response from Jonathan.

Jeff

[jason.1969]

The plot thickens...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

and the other shoe drops.

http://i.giphy.com/E3xXqq617AaFW.gif

[7nohitter]

Talk about FIREWORKS!!!! BOOM!

[gnaz01]

<iframe src="//giphy.com/embed/w2UtIGtEpuR9u" width="480" height="226" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://giphy.com/gifs/funny-snl-yes-w2UtIGtEpuR9u"></a></p>

[savedfrommyspokes]

Could these be some of the bats?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=bat&_ssn=vintagesixset&hash=item281639767c%3Ag%3Aq4UAAOSwubRXFEtj&item=172171556476&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xbat+-1911.TRS0&_nkw=bat+-1911&_sacat=0

[boneheadandrube]

Let's talk about Jonathan for a minute he did this deal with me talked about how much he was so excited to get these items and so excited to have all these bats and the ball he was so excited to put them in his collection this is what he was telling me when we made the deal told me to ship the whole bag of items to Pennsylvania where his buddy lives. Jonathan is in Washington state. Then he proceeded the next day to have his friend put them all up on eBay for profit I have no problem with him doing that he should have just told me that in the first place and I'm telling you right now since he couldn't hawk the baseball and make money on it he wants to return it 4 months later 4 months. not a week, week and a half for months so who Shady here Jonathan. and obviously appears to me that Jonathan didn't do is homework. Yes I do have the same ball in the box that is going up in REA including my whole collection in October I'm not going to the National. Jonathan is nothing but an eBay store looking to make profit on everything he buys it's not for his collection like he says. The guy emailed me last week and asked you have any more baseballs to sell and then he comes up with this. So let's make sure we tell the whole story Jonathan not just what you think in your head. And yes I bought mine with the box from Bob McCann I didn't get ripped off in any way when I bought them so let's stop all that nonsense and Bob McCann obviously Miss informed me of the dating of the ball


Hi Kevin, my name is Greg. I'm the friend of Jonathan's in Pennsylvania you mentioned. Jonathan is new to memorabilia and I've been around long enough to be able to help a little with advice on old baseball bats. Yes, he was very excited about the bats he bought from you. He was still a little nervous about such a big purchase and he asked me to have a look at them and tell him what I knew about them before sending them along to him with a few other bats that I had already sold him.

Unfortunately the bats that you sent were mostly in rough condition, with two "bats" from the 19th century that barely qualified as pieces of baseball equipment. I think one used to be a bat (cut in half) or the handle of a farm tool and another looks more like a banister piece/stairway railing post to me. Another bat was barely held together with grip tape or else it was two pieces.

You shipped them all inside a bat bag thrown into a large box. Normally this wouldn't have been that big of a deal, but you included the Eddie Collins Mini Decal Bat (wrapped in one layer of bubble wrap) just thrown in with the big heavier bats and it lost about 20% of the decal that was on it before you shipped it. Most of it was in a pile of crumbs stuck inside the bubble wrap. I really don't know much about old baseballs so I couldn't be of much help to him with that baseball unfortunately.

Anyway, when I informed him of the overall quality of the bats he decided that he didn't want them. He was both upset that he made a purchase without knowing enough about what he was buying and discouraged about the whole deal he had made with you. Instead of asking for a full refund he decided to "take his lumps" as a learning experience and move on hoping that his "cool baseball" would be the saving grace of the deal. So, I offered to list the bats (that were actually bats) on my ebay ID in an auction style with starting bids just under his individual cost. About half of the bats sold for the starting price or one small bid higher. The other half did not sell.

To say he was trying to make a profit is making you look foolish Kevin. Don't forget the 10% ebay fee and the 3% ppal fee were subtracted from those sales, and half didn't sell. They were sold to ease the financial pain of a horrible deal with you.

As for the ball, neither of us knew anything about it so he did research on his own after I mailed it to him...and here we are. Why don't you just refund him? He was too nice to not just send everything back in the first place. You are an ameturish "picker" with a basement full of 30 years of leftover fleamarket junk you gathered, not a memorabilia expert. You were wrong about the ball. Man up sir!

Greg Bishop

[EvilKing00]

Ball not being from the year / era is a problem

4 month return also a problem

Cut the ball in half and return 1/2 and refund half the money - :rolleyes:

[boneheadandrube]

Could these be some of the bats?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=bat&_ssn=vintagesixset&hash=item281639767c%3Ag%3Aq4UAAOSwubRXFEtj&item=172171556476&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xbat+-1911.TRS0&_nkw=bat+-1911&_sacat=0

Thats them.
GB

[jason.1969]

A little off topic but the bats on eBay look pretty nice for their age and for the prices paid.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[gnaz01]

Thats them.
GB

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg

[Leon]

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg

This seems like a witch hunt to me. Unfortunately I have been the focal point of one of those and it's not fun. Jonathan tried to take the high road, did nothing wrong and deserves a refund, Period.

BTW, I have been intricately involved in this issue for a few days. Ball was sold as something it isn't. Four seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years.....still not the ball it was portrayed to be.

[gnaz01]

Ball was sold as something it isn't. Four seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years.....still not the ball it was portrayed to be.

I understand LL, not trying to upset anyone and apologize if I did, but at the end of the day, isn't it "caveat emptor"

Just my 2 cents (no change required :D)

[khkco4bls]

Those are all of my bats that he listed I sent photos descriptions told him over the phone what they were to what they were before he bought them so don't tell me they were in rough shape they weren't in that rough shape and the decal was missing 20% of it when I shipped to you. You should have sent me pictures and said that some of it come off you didn't you chose not to and then you sold everything. what more can I do I sent plenty of photos to him

[boneheadandrube]

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg


Naz, only the Hornsby bat was nice. By my standards those are rough. I said the Collins bat lost 20% of the decal from when it was pictured, meaning 20 off what was on it before. Not 20 off original 100.

GB

[frankbmd]

So posting you dirty laundry on a public forum to encourage a lynch mob to join you after hearing half the story is "taking the high road".

Got it.;)

[boneheadandrube]

Those are all of my bats that he listed I sent photos descriptions told him over the phone what they were to what they were before he bought them so don't tell me they were in rough shape they weren't in that rough shape and the decal was missing 20% of it when I shipped to you. You should have sent me pictures and said that some of it come off you didn't you chose not to and then you sold everything. what more can I do I sent plenty of photos to him

Direct your speech to Jonathan, not me sir.
GB

[jonvancouver]

If I had a little more experience (and probably less respect for my elders as I'm only 33 years old) I would have returned the entire group of bats. But Kevin, I didn't want to 'bug' you and instead chalked it up to my inexperience. The problem is that you've been doing this for a long time. You said that on the phone too. When you told me that you were going to put them all in a single bat bag and ship them to Washington State (I actually live on Bowen Island in British Columbia and my post box in Washington State is about a 60 minute drive for me) I decided to call Greg and see if he wouldn't mind meeting you to pick them up because I was nervous about them rattling around together in a bag with no protection. When I get a bat from Greg it comes in a tube, bubble wrapped, with peanuts on either end, with bubble wrap around the tube and shipped in a big box.Unfortunately he couldn't meet you on the day you were driving to play golf with friends. We took about a week to see if I could make that meeting happen.

When Greg got the bats in hand he called me and said that they were no good. And Greg is the ONLY person I trust when talking about this stuff. He has been around a long time and has never once steered me wrong.
He didn't say they were no good but 'man oh man you are going to make a killing selling these things". As a matter of fact, it would have been easier for him to just reship them to me and hype them up so that I wouldn't have had a bad experience buying from you. He wasted his time unloading them to at least recoup me some of the money.

One of the most discouraging things about you is that after speaking to Brandon, coupled with you having experience in this hobby, you could have sold me even a decent ball that was a pro model for the 600 dollars. You showed me pictures of balls in your collection that I know now to be pro baseballs. To me, it's clear that you flat out ripped me off. The ONE ball you choose to offer me ends up being a dud? What are the odds of that happening? With all those balls you showed me, and their boxes in cubes, you choose to sell me the one ball that ends up being a dud? Come on, I might only be 33 but I have common sense.

I told you on the phone when we spoke the I've been doing this for around 18 months, and that I'm practically brand new in the equipment side of the hobby. I told you that I do this to be able to sit with my 5 year old son and talk about the game. Anyone on this board who has taken a second to have a chat with me would know exactly the kind of person I am, and you took advantage of that person.

At the end of the day, I struggled even posting the original message, because on some baseline, being associated with negativity isn't something I like to be a part of. When I spoke to Leon I told him that I needed some time to think about whether or not to even do it. I know how these things can go. The people that don't know me can certainly come to their own conclusions. However, I gave you a chance to refund the money. I was nice about it. I told you that even though the condition of the bats wouldn't fit in my collection I was ok with it. I wrote that in an email to you. I never ONE TIME emailed you or called asking to return the bats. I had already chalked that up to a loss. The GREAT deal you gave me resulted in a $600 ball worth $50 bucks, and a loss of around $800 on bats that were not properly described.

Let's take it a step further. One of the bats was a Winchester. It was completely cracked. The crack was hidden under grip tape. You never said, one of the bats I'm selling you is completely cracked but the crack is hidden under grip tape so you'd never really know unless you take the tape off..."
You kept that information to yourself. I have no clue how you wouldn't have known that it was cracked, but maybe you didn't know for the same reason you say you didn't know about the baseball. The whole thing stinks.

You know what you did, and now you can undo it. For someone to be in the hobby a long time and take advantage of a new collector is sad. It's something that every other person on this board has NOT done to me.

600 dollars it's peanuts. This whole deal started with a cheap Piper Bat. It developed into a phone conversation where you heard firsthand about my inexperience. Then you sunk your teeth in.

Finally, I fully expect that some members will think I've done something wrong, and that's ok. All I can do is lay out the facts and try to explain my point of view. We are talking about a 600 dollar baseball, sold from an experienced collector to an admitted novice. Those are the facts.

6:37 AM and the kids are up. I check the thread all the time and will answer any other questions that are asked of me.

Jonathan

[jason.1969]

I understand LL, not trying to upset anyone and apologize if I did, but at the end of the day, isn't it "caveat emptor"

Just my 2 cents (no change required :D)
Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

[khkco4bls]

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

[khkco4bls]

Also I never told him it was from 1896.

[boneheadandrube]

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional


I refund for things when customers aren't happy with them.
GB

[jonvancouver]

edited because I am getting too heated. Comment not necessary.

[gnaz01]

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

Jason, I get it, all I am doing is reiterating what is on the top of all the B/S/T threads (not placed by me). Before I make ANY purchase of something I'm not sure about, I do some research on my end first, that's all that was meant to imply.

[Leon]

So posting you dirty laundry on a public forum to encourage a lynch mob to join you after hearing half the story is "taking the high road".

Got it.;)

Yes. He tried to sell the bats he didn't like, and take a loss, without even contacting the seller. Then he tried to resolve this amicably over and over and over privately. So, yeah, to me that is taking the high road. Had he posted this without ever trying to get it resolved privately first I wouldn't have the same opinion. He also ran his first post by me before posting to make sure it was ok. Of course it is/was. But that is just my take that he took the high road. Maybe he should just shut up and get taken, right?

And I should reiterate this had already gone on for several days BEFORE it was posted about. When the crazy statement about "some deals are good and some aren't" came out, is when it went public.

[ibuysportsephemera]

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

So just return the guys money on the ball and be done with it. Instead, your reputation keeps taking a beating on Net54. Again, just my 2¢.

Jeff

[Leon]

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

I almost barfed when I read that. How could an intelligent person say that?

[gnaz01]

I almost barfed when I read that. How could an intelligent person say that?

Agreed everyone, just tired from a long, hard weekend. I've refunded $$ (only one time when a person wasn't happy) so agreed, Kevin does need to do the right thing here.

[Leon]

Agreed everyone, just tired from a long, hard weekend. I've refunded $$ (only one time when a person wasn't happy) so agreed, Kevin does need to do the right thing here.

I have posted thousands of things where I went back and said "I said that?, what was I thinking" ....no worries......

[Econteachert205]

I have posted thousands of things where I went back and said "I said that?, what was I thinking" ....no worries......

Amen to that.

[111gecko]

220 items at the REA auction?. That's actually pretty impressive....this deal just looks/smells bad all over. Give the man his $500 bucks and move on. Is it worth getting this much unwanted attention? Sounds like you are a pretty successful dealer..your call; just an outsider's viewpoint.

[khkco4bls]

First of all I'm not a dealer I'm just a collector who is parting with his collection because I'm moving south next month and can't take it with me I kept some selected items for myself that's it. These items would describe and photograph for him I don't understand Jonathan what you don't get about that and what you did not see before you purchase these items we had many phone conversations not just one. I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money but Jonathan I'm certainly not shedding a tear over your purchase you saw everything you had plenty of photos descriptions I told you about the crack that under the tape

[khkco4bls]

By the way this will be my last post on in this matter so let's move on

[khkco4bls]

Jonathan wants to keep bashing me he's more than welcome to because I have thick skin Jonathan it doesn't bother me in the least.

[gnaz01]

I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money

Maybe LL should lock the thread once this happens, no need to go on, IMO.

[jason.1969]

However it all plays out, I think it took real balls to post this. [emoji1]

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh517/JonIraSchwartz/GOLDSMITH%20-LOGO-DATING.jpg (http://s1249.photobucket.com/user/JonIraSchwartz/media/GOLDSMITH%20-LOGO-DATING.jpg.html)

[Leon]

Maybe LL should lock the thread once this happens, no need to go on, IMO.

I saw that and thought about it. But locking threads isn't something that is frequently or casually done. Kevin (hi Kevin) is doing the right thing and kudo's for that.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Um, he MAY be doing the right thing. He's said all along he'd give the refund... In October. I don't see him addressing the timeline for refund issue. If he is refunding immediately then the thread (and community) seem to have served their purpose, which is great.

[7nohitter]

Um, he MAY be doing the right thing. He's said all along he'd give the refund... In October. I don't see him addressing the timeline for refund issue. If he is refunding immediately then the thread (and community) seem to have served their purpose, which is great.

Agreed. The refund should be immediate, not 4 months from now.

[charrigan]

PayPal covers the buyer for purchases for up to 6 months. Time to end the polite conversation and get your money back. Good luck.

[slidekellyslide]

Um, he MAY be doing the right thing. He's said all along he'd give the refund... In October. I don't see him addressing the timeline for refund issue. If he is refunding immediately then the thread (and community) seem to have served their purpose, which is great.

And originally he was only going to refund the difference his similar ball sold for in the REA auction except now we learn that ball is in the original box and probably in much better shape since he kept it with the original box. So how could he fairly make up the difference between those two balls? How was that ever a fair offer?

[vintagetoppsguy]

If I'm reading this right (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the total purchase was $2500. We know the ball was $600, so that means the bats were $1900. Is this correct?

The OP felt that the bats were misrepresented and cut his loses by selling them on eBay. I think I speak for most everyone here, but if I made a purchase of that size and felt it was misrepresented, I would ask for a refund, not cut my loses by turning around and selling them on eBay.

A few months later he feels the ball is misrepresented and now wants a refund (and I think he deserves one). I guess the part of this that doesn't make sense to me is why he was willing to cut his loses on the $1900 worth of bats, but wants a refund (again, which I think he's entitled to) on the $600 ball? Why not cut his loses on that too? Why the bats, not the ball?

It just looks strange to have the bats shipped to a third party and then immediately posted on eBay. I understand the explanation for this, but others have said the bats looked nice. This is the part that I just can't wrap my head around - why be willing to immediately cut your loses on $1900 in worthless bats, but not on a worthless ball?

Last, if the bats and ball were shipped together (I'm assuming they were), why did Greg immediately dismiss the bats as worthless, but not the ball?

[vintagetoppsguy]

One other thing, if the bats were received and immediately thought to be misrepresented, shouldn't that have raised some red flags on the ball too at the time?

[1952boyntoncollector]

First of all I'm not a dealer I'm just a collector who is parting with his collection because I'm moving south next month and can't take it with me I kept some selected items for myself that's it. These items would describe and photograph for him I don't understand Jonathan what you don't get about that and what you did not see before you purchase these items we had many phone conversations not just one. I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money but Jonathan I'm certainly not shedding a tear over your purchase you saw everything you had plenty of photos descriptions I told you about the crack that under the tape

Is the part true about not giving a refund until another auction in October?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

One other thing, if the bats were received and immediately thought to be misrepresented, shouldn't that have raised some red flags on the ball too at the time?

The bats seemed to be mainly a condition issue which, while still a problem, is a much more understandable one, condition being subjective. The ball however had an objective problem. Buyer claims he was told it was something other than what it is. That's fraud as opposed to a difference of opinion. If it was an honest mistake, fine, but it's still a different caliber problem than disagreeing over condition.

[CxG Seven Dust]

There's a clinic in Dallas Texas that allows you to donate one of your balls for like 30 grand. You can always recoupe your losses that way if all else fails. Lol

All jokes aside, this is a transaction gone completely wrong.

If it was a 30 dollar ball would we be here discussing this?

[xplainer]

If I'm reading this right (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the total purchase was $2500. We know the ball was $600, so that means the bats were $1900. Is this correct?

The OP felt that the bats were misrepresented and cut his loses by selling them on eBay. I think I speak for most everyone here, but if I made a purchase of that size and felt it was misrepresented, I would ask for a refund, not cut my loses by turning around and selling them on eBay.

A few months later he feels the ball is misrepresented and now wants a refund (and I think he deserves one). I guess the part of this that doesn't make sense to me is why he was willing to cut his loses on the $1900 worth of bats, but wants a refund (again, which I think he's entitled to) on the $600 ball? Why not cut his loses on that too? Why the bats, not the ball?

It just looks strange to have the bats shipped to a third party and then immediately posted on eBay. I understand the explanation for this, but others have said the bats looked nice. This is the part that I just can't wrap my head around - why be willing to immediately cut your loses on $1900 in worthless bats, but not on a worthless ball?

Last, if the bats and ball were shipped together (I'm assuming they were), why did Greg immediately dismiss the bats as worthless, but not the ball?

I agree. So many unanswered questions.

As I have stated before, if the ball is not as stated, a refund is in order. But the bat story is crazy.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I agree. So many unanswered questions.

As I have stated before, if the ball is not as stated, a refund is in order. But the bat story is crazy.

I think the the guy was looking to flip and the 'cut his losses' story is the same thing as 'going to sell at the national' or 'bought it for my personal collection' it goes in the category of who cares if true or not ..

but the ball wasnt what he paid for so he didnt want to sell that at sure loss...

thats my theory...more info can change my mind but thats what my thoughts are now..

[jonvancouver]

I think the the guy was looking to flip and the 'cut his losses' story is the same thing as 'going to sell at the national' or 'bought it for my personal collection' it goes in the category of who cares if true or not ..

but the ball wasnt what he paid for so he didnt want to sell that at sure loss...

thats my theory...more info can change my mind but thats what my thoughts are now..

To put it as simply as possible, I collect SGC 60 T206 cards that (in my opinion) are graded properly. SGC 60 cards can have a whole bunch of different conditions. Nobody is perfect. So if I buy an SGC card on eBay with a blurry photo, and it gets to me with corners that I deem too round for my collection, I try to recoup as much money as I can and move on.
If I buy a SGC 60 Green Cobb, only to find out it's counterfeit, I think I would have a hard time reselling it to recoup my investment and move on.

My options with the bats were plentiful. Greg was kind enough to list them on eBay and I took a loss. The story about the bats (in my opinion) has nothing to do with the ball. And I said that in various emails to Kevin. His opinion on condition is different than mine. He thinks they are SGC 60. I think they are slabbed SGC 60 but look like a 30. We've all seen things like this before, and almost everyone has more experience than I do.

What I can't for the life of me understand is how we all seem to be skipping over the most salient point. How in the world, could someone with so much experience that they have 220 pieces that REA deems worthy for their auction, choose the one ball in his entire collection that turns out to be not what he says it is.
How is that humanly possible? He's not new to this hobby.

I have bought many many items on this forum. I've had every single deal be flawless.

I really tried to not post again as Kevin says he will be refunding my money (even though no timeline has been spoken about) but I really don't see the harm in NOT returning the bats because it was simply a condition disagreement, that I didn't even once bring up to him!

As always, I'm here to answer any further questions. I just hope that Kevin will let me know when the refund is coming.
Jonathan Schwartz

[1952boyntoncollector]

To put it as simply as possible, I collect SGC 60 T206 cards that (in my opinion) are graded properly. SGC 60 cards can have a whole bunch of different conditions. Nobody is perfect. So if I buy an SGC card on eBay with a blurry photo, and it gets to me with corners that I deem too round for my collection, I try to recoup as much money as I can and move on.
If I buy a SGC 60 Green Cobb, only to find out it's counterfeit, I think I would have a hard time reselling it to recoup my investment and move on.

My options with the bats were plentiful. Greg was kind enough to list them on eBay and I took a loss. The story about the bats (in my opinion) has nothing to do with the ball. And I said that in various emails to Kevin. His opinion on condition is different than mine. He thinks they are SGC 60. I think they are slabbed SGC 60 but look like a 30. We've all seen things like this before, and almost everyone has more experience than I do.

What I can't for the life of me understand is how we all seem to be skipping over the most salient point. How in the world, could someone with so much experience that they have 220 pieces that REA deems worthy for their auction, choose the one ball in his entire collection that turns out to be not what he says it is.
How is that humanly possible? He's not new to this hobby.

I have bought many many items on this forum. I've had every single deal be flawless.

I really tried to not post again as Kevin says he will be refunding my money (even though no timeline has been spoken about) but I really don't see the harm in NOT returning the bats because it was simply a condition disagreement, that I didn't even once bring up to him!

As always, I'm here to answer any further questions. I just hope that Kevin will let me know when the refund is coming.
Jonathan Schwartz

It so easy to refund..it takes like 5 seconds...not sure what the hold up is

[xplainer]

Yeah, good talk on the phone Jonathan.
What is the hold up on the refund...on the ball?

[jonvancouver]

Yeah, good talk on the phone Jonathan.
What is the hold up on the refund...on the ball?

Your guess is as good as mine, Jimmy.
I think that with today being the 4th he must be busy with family commitments. Totally understandable if that's the case. If not, I don't know what the holdup is.

[111gecko]

Gotta have it to pay it???

[Dewey]

I'm guessing he doesn't have it. But that's the problem. It's a guess because he hasn't communicated with OP (and secondarily to future potential buyers). Communication doesn't seem to be his forte to be frank. Hope for all involved this is resolved soon.

I have never ever had a problem selling items to anybody on here or outside of here until now he will get his refund I got to get it together.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I'm guessing he doesn't have it. But that's the problem. It's a guess because he hasn't communicated with OP (and secondarily to future potential buyers). Communication doesn't seem to be his forte to be frank. Hope for all involved this is resolved soon.

so someone with 1000s of dollars of merchandise and in the business of selling a ton of stuff doesnt have a few hundred dollars...you would think someone in teh business in buying an selling has a few hundred dollars (of at least credit no less by credit card) to refund..

i got a feeling if this seller was arrested for something and needed 500 dollars bail to give to a bondsman he wouldnt have to get it together..he would have it

[packs]

Re: the refund thing, I bought an item from a big auction house which they then shipped to the wrong address. This AH made me wait until they had received a refund from the post office before they would refund me. I thought it was BS and will never bid with them again. You should refund immediately every time.

[Tigerden]

So just return the guys money on the ball and be done with it. Instead, your reputation keeps taking a beating on Net54. Again, just my 2¢.

Jeff

Agreed. Kevin- If you have such a collection of quality stuff to have 220 items listed in REA my guess is that you have 600 bucks laying around to send Jonathon a refund and put this issue to rest. Adam

[bnorth]

Re: the refund thing, I bought an item from a big auction house which they then shipped to the wrong address. This AH made me wait until they had received a refund from the post office before they would refund me. I thought it was BS and will never bid with them again. You should refund immediately every time.

What AH?

Maybe a couple members will also stop bidding with them.

Some will only bid on their items IF they really want them and MIGHT pass on something not real important.

Most will say that sucks and keep bidding just like before because it didn't happen to them.

;):eek::):D:cool:

[packs]

I will send you a PM. I'm not looking to derail. It was BS though and I'll never understand why a professional AH would make a buyer wait for them to get a refund before refunding the buyer.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I will send you a PM. I'm not looking to derail. It was BS though and I'll never understand why a professional AH would make a buyer wait for them to get a refund before refunding the buyer.

right that classic with deadbeats...if they do the wrong (and are in the business to get customers ) they should be the one waiting to collect not the person that was wronged

[jonvancouver]

Not sure why this refund is taking this long....
I think paypal works 24/7 and banks are certainly open on the East Coast at 1pm if needed.
Super professional.

[Cobra Kai]

Still no refund Jonathan?

[jonvancouver]

Still no refund Jonathan?

Nope. I'm still waiting.

[khkco4bls]

Since this works the opposite way I want my item back and then I will pay

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Actually that's completely reasonable. I assumed it had already been returned. Even Ebay makes you return the item first.

[khkco4bls]

No problem returning the money I just want my item back

[jonvancouver]

No problem returning the money I just want my item back

Kevin, can you please PM me your address and I'll have the ball in transit tomorrow. Thank you.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Do I have to say... insure it and get a signature?

[jonvancouver]

Do I have to say... insure it and get a signature?

I will absolutely be doing both...but I need his address first. I've PMd him asking for his address as well but have yet to get a response.

[Griffins]

Re: the refund thing, I bought an item from a big auction house which they then shipped to the wrong address. This AH made me wait until they had received a refund from the post office before they would refund me. I thought it was BS and will never bid with them again. You should refund immediately every time.


I got an empty box from an AH. Called them right away, waited 4 months, and then was told I'd need to provide character references before they could refund me. And the guy said "if I refund you're money I'm out the card and the money, right now you're only missing the card, so that seems fairer"
Finally got my money back, never bid with the guy again at any AH he's been to.

Takes a while to build a reputation, but seconds to kill it.

[Leon]

Kevin, can you please PM me your address and I'll have the ball in transit tomorrow. Thank you.

I guess if he never gives you his address you never get a refund? :eek:

[botn]

Jonathan please keep us apprised of any developments.

Good luck,
Greg

[Klrdds]

It only took 136 posts on this thread to get the story straight and to get the refund agreed to by the seller .
I wonder how many posts it will take now to get the address issue resolved .
😀😀😀
Glad it seems to have worked out in principle now .

[charrigan]

Charge it back. Money to you within 48 hours. Enough with the silliness.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Charge it back. Money to you within 48 hours. Enough with the silliness.

good point...after all when a buyer pays he doesnt have the merchandise and is out the money so whats the big deal of a seller refunding first.

[murphusa]

You an get the address from your PayPal transaction.

BTW, the 1933 goldsmith catalog show the Atlantic ball with box selling for 25 cents

[jfkheat]

Any time someone files for a refund through Ebay or Paypal they have to return the merchandise first. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to have the ball returned before giving a refund.
James

[1952boyntoncollector]

Any time someone files for a refund through Ebay or Paypal they have to return the merchandise first. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask to have the ball returned before giving a refund.
James

I agree, but it wouldnt be the first time ever a refund is issued as good will first...after all you can always get the refund back if the item isnt returned

[jonvancouver]

I agree, but it wouldnt be the first time ever a refund is issued as good will first...after all you can always get the refund back if the item isnt returned

I would love nothing more than to return the ball but he has yet to send me his address. It's all packed up and ready to go.
I PMd him this morning for his address too. No response.

I checked the paypal transaction and it doesn't show his address anywhere.

[chaddurbin]

seller is being an ass, isn't the valuation of the ball like $30-$40? if so the seller can certainly refund the $600 first, it's not like the dude didn't just buy $1500 worth of bats from you! if you have 220 items in REA and numerous PC balls, then you knew the ball you sold was shitty...end of story.

[the 'stache]

Unbelievable. Refund him the $600, Kevin, and be done with it. Stop playing games.

[khkco4bls]

Oh boo hoo like I'm supposed to feel bad about a guy that waited for months to send the item how many times do we have to go through this that he'll get his money back so stop the nonsense

[4815162342]

Oh boo hoo like I'm supposed to feel bad about a guy that waited for months to send the item how many times do we have to go through this that he'll get his money back so stop the nonsense


You do realize that you're insulting and ticking off pretty much all of the potential bidders of your REA lots, don't you?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

You do realize that you're insulting and ticking off pretty much all of the potential bidders of your REA lots, don't you?

Well, I doubt that's actually gong to have any impact on anything. I for one would bid on anything I wanted. Of course if HE was handling the sale that would be a different story.

[bnorth]

You do realize that you're insulting and ticking off pretty much all of the potential bidders of your REA lots, don't you?

I highly doubt it will have any affect on bidding. It has been proven over and over that people will buy cards from complete scum. If Bill Mastro had a cheap PSA graded T206 HOFer for sale people would line up to buy/bid on it.

[packs]

If it's only a $40 baseball and you owe him $600, why are you demanding the ball back first?

[Mdmtx]

Kevin,
I don't know you, and I feel fortunate I don't. You misrepresented an item. If proven to be intentional, that could be construed as fraud. Your unwillingness to make this an easy transaction is also confounding. So you need the 30 dollar ball back before you refund the $600 you charged? That seems a little ridiculous. Refund him $570 now and hold back $30 until you get your ball back. Your complaint of 4 months time passing is weak as well. Aren't you lucky it took him 4 months to figure out he had purchased something that was misrepresented, you got an interest free loan for 4 months. I think if you reread this thread you will do the right thing, cause the thread is anything but flattering for your image.


Mark Medlin

[jb217676]

Wow, some seriously bad mojo here. What a way to alienate potential customers, many of whom call this site home.
Jeff Betts

[vintagetoppsguy]

I highly doubt it will have any affect on bidding. It has been proven over and over that people will buy cards from complete scum (insert Probstein's name here). If Bill Mastro had a cheap PSA graded T206 HOFer for sale people would line up to buy/bid on it.

Yup. Sad. True, but sad.

[khkco4bls]

So I gotta sit here and listen to you vindictive people constantly. I told you I would refund his money what is the problem here. I have never had a problem dealing with anybody on here selling items he's gonna get his money but this is why people run from this site cuz they just can't stand all you people that live in such a perfect world. Time to move on people

[Mdmtx]

So the guy that ultimately had to go to the court of public opinion and the subjects of that court are vindictive? Wow. That's rich.

[Laxcat]

Every time this thread pops up, this is what I picture in my mind.

[khkco4bls]

You know Leon I used to really like coming on this site I've done a lot of deals in the BST with guys always loved reading the posts but I'm done, remove me. I'm finished here...

[7nohitter]

I'm finished here...

Well said.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Wow, some seriously bad mojo here. What a way to alienate potential customers, many of whom call this site home.
Jeff Betts

Guys he said he's liquidating his collection. Basically he doesn't care about repercussions because he's never making another deal. That's also why booting him (at his request) is also meaningless.

[Bpm0014]

I'm done, remove me. I'm finished here...

Good riddance. We don't need your kind here and the board will be a safer place. You could have made this "right" 158 posts ago by apologizing, giving your address, and a clear timeframe of when the refund would be there. But YOU chose to make this difficult...

[Tigerden]

Based on Kevin's last post looks like Jonathan is not getting his refund. Agreed, no repercussions for Kevin as he admits he is liquidating his collection. Kevin appears to have had zero desire giving a dime of the money back all along. One hurdle after another for Jonathan as the goalposts keeps being moved. Kevin found a new collector and sold him the stuff REA would not take. I just hope Jonathan learned from this experience and knows Kevin is the exception rather than the rule on this site. Hopefully you will continue to collect not be discouraged and recognize this is a great forum and a great source for knowledge about this hobby.

Adam Blaney

[pokerplyr80]

So I gotta sit here and listen to you vindictive people constantly. I told you I would refund his money what is the problem here. I have never had a problem dealing with anybody on here selling items he's gonna get his money but this is why people run from this site cuz they just can't stand all you people that live in such a perfect world. Time to move on people

Why didn't you offer to let him return the ball for a refund before this thread started? It sounds like he emailed you explaining that the ball you sold was not from the era you said it was. Allowing the return would have been the right thing to do, and would have saved you from all of these "vindictive" people who hopefully won't be buying anything from you in the future. I know i won't be.

[Tigerden]

REA is only a hop skip and a jump from Long Island. Kevin can drop off his consignments and hit NYC on the way back maybe hock some fake Rolex's to a few tourists along the way. Geez. I'd like to know how much he paid from Bob McCann auction for the ball! My guess is even if Bob had dated it wrong it probably sold for a fraction of $600. I don't even think this ball had the box probably sold for around $200 at most. Bottom line REA didn't want the ball and Kev found a live one and reeled him in. Sad.

Adam Blaney

[Tigerden]

One of the things I noticed in BST with a few items Kevin listed was he didn't have prices. I get annoyed when people post and say make me an offer. How about, your the seller what do you want for it? At least list a price and OBO even if the price is inflated. When people put make me an offer its as if they are hoping that someone is dumb enough to offer insane money and would gladly take it even if they know they are ripping them off.

Adam Blaney

[khkco4bls]

Here's the thing you guys don't know me and yes he will get his money back so stop putting words in my mouth.it's amazing how perfect all you people are on this site it makes me sick. Did you not read the post above that he will get his money back when I get my item back I think that's only fair regardless of what you think it's worth. And what does this have to do with the BST and just asking for offers people do it all the time these are just things I'm trying to move along to other collectors because I'm moving and don't have the room for it all what is the problem here

[khkco4bls]

I have always been fair to every guy on the other side selling items so one bad thing happens and you people just have everybody up all the time this is the one thing I cannot stand about this site

[Mdmtx]

Then send him his money. You've said it, but you've not done it. Words are cheap. I'm guessing you don't have the money which is why you have made it so difficult. It's not hard. Here is the address for PayPal if you can't find it PayPal.com.

[Joshchisox08]

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

If you have that many items for sale then you shouldn't have much of an issue paying him back now should you.

Better yet if you have that many items for sale I would think $600 is chump change for you.

[CxG Seven Dust]

I have always been fair to every guy on the other side selling items so one bad thing happens and you people just have everybody up all the time this is the one thing I cannot stand about this site

Why do you use run-on sentences?

Oh my bad, that's just me pretending to be "perfect".

Dude, grow up! I'm sure you're not a child, but you sure the hell are acting like one.


David

[gemmint77]

Keeping track of names so I don't get screwed!!

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Here's the thing you guys don't know me and yes he will get his money back so stop putting words in my mouth.it's amazing how perfect all you people are on this site it makes me sick. Did you not read the post above that he will get his money back when I get my item back I think that's only fair regardless of what you think it's worth. And what does this have to do with the BST and just asking for offers people do it all the time these are just things I'm trying to move along to other collectors because I'm moving and don't have the room for it all what is the problem here


Have you given him your address? Seems pretty hard to receive an item back when it sounds like from Jonathan's post you ignore his request to get your address.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[khkco4bls]

I sent it to him twice

[Gradedcardman]

I sent it to him twice


No return no refund. Not too much to ask.

[packs]

Hypothetically speaking, if I sold you a T206 reprint for $600 and then told you I'd only refund you once I had my reprint back, wouldn't that be kinda weird?

[khkco4bls]

Hypothetically speaking, if I sold you a T206 reprint for $600 and then told you I'd only refund you once I had my reprint back, wouldn't that be kinda weird?

Point taken I've already returned his money

[Mark17]

Hypothetically speaking, if I sold you a T206 reprint for $600 and then told you I'd only refund you once I had my reprint back, wouldn't that be kinda weird?

No, I would understand you wanted to verify that it was, indeed the same card I sent and that it was, in fact, a reprint.

Let me ask you, if you want a $600 refund and all you have to do is send back a near worthless reprint to satisfy the seller, why not do it?

Take hi-resolution scans of it, keep and document everything about the transaction, and send the card back to the seller so he can see exactly what you're talking about. It costs/risks you nothing.

[earlywynnfan]

I, like many here, have formed the opinion that I will never do business with Kevin thanks to this thread.

However, I don't think it's too much to ask to have the item back in hand before issuing a refund.

[packs]

I guess where my thinking is going is that sending it back to someone who does business in a way you don't agree with opens up the floodgates as to whether their item was "damaged" or something else, which would then lead to endless e-mails about price adjustments, etc.

[jonvancouver]

Kevin has refunded the money and I'll be shipping the ball out today.

[ruth-gehrig]

:) great to hear

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aT3x9JrsshQ/TSdkO2k5NgI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/M1n16bN7o_o/s320/empty%2Bpopcorn.jpeg

[vintagebb2014]

+1

[TheNightmanCometh]

Can we ban Kevin now?

[vintagetoppsguy]

I didn't want to post this until Jonathan received his refund, but PayPal WOULD NOT have refunded his money. This was a combined purchase payment and PayPal does not make seller's issue partial refunds. PayPal can make the seller refund the entire purchase if the entire purchase is returned by the buyer (which in this case wasn't possible), but sellers do not have to give partial refunds. I'm glad this worked out for Jonathan.

[KingFisk]

Our long national nightmare is over.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[GeorgeBailey2]

Our long national nightmare is over.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Not bad. Not bad. I do like the empty tub of popcorn better. If only Scarlett's "Popcorn girl" gif had been posted.

[Gradedcardman]

Hypothetically speaking, if I sold you a T206 reprint for $600 and then told you I'd only refund you once I had my reprint back, wouldn't that be kinda weird?

No, Went through that via ebay and paypal. Sent back and then received the refund. That is the way the system is set up and regardless of your thought process that is the way it happens.

[batsballsbases]

Bailey which Bailey? This is Mr. George Bailey. Love the movie. Sorry couldnt resist!;);) This is about all the thread warrants.......;);)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Not bad. Not bad. I do like the empty tub of popcorn better. If only Scarlett's "Popcorn girl" gif had been posted.

Sorry, I started off with Jon Stewart's popcorn gif, needed closure.

[charrigan]

I didn't want to post this until Jonathan received his refund, but PayPal WOULD NOT have refunded his money. This was a combined purchase payment and PayPal does not make seller's issue partial refunds. PayPal can make the seller refund the entire purchase if the entire purchase is returned by the buyer (which in this case wasn't possible), but sellers do not have to give partial refunds. I'm glad this worked out for Jonathan.


His credit card surely would have sided with him. That's why it's good to have multiple means of protection.

I'm certainly for the general policy of "return before refund", but in this case the buyer would have been well within his rights to get his money back in whatever way was quickest and most convenient.

[EvilKing00]

Kevin,
I don't know you, and I feel fortunate I don't. You misrepresented an item. If proven to be intentional, that could be construed as fraud. Your unwillingness to make this an easy transaction is also confounding. So you need the 30 dollar ball back before you refund the $600 you charged? That seems a little ridiculous. Refund him $570 now and hold back $30 until you get your ball back. Your complaint of 4 months time passing is weak as well. Aren't you lucky it took him 4 months to figure out he had purchased something that was misrepresented, you got an interest free loan for 4 months. I think if you reread this thread you will do the right thing, cause the thread is anything but flattering for your image.


Mark Medlin

Well said

[1952boyntoncollector]

One of the things I noticed in BST with a few items Kevin listed was he didn't have prices. I get annoyed when people post and say make me an offer. How about, your the seller what do you want for it? At least list a price and OBO even if the price is inflated. When people put make me an offer its as if they are hoping that someone is dumb enough to offer insane money and would gladly take it even if they know they are ripping them off.

Adam Blaney

preaching to the choir....preaching to my choir at least...

[bmattioli]

Wow..This is such a dirty hobby.. Isn't it a pity..

[mattjc1983]

Although I'm glad that the buyer ultimately got his refund, is anyone else kind of disappointed this thread is over...it's like, what do I do with this extra hour I just found?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Wow..This is such a dirty hobby.. Isn't it a pity..

The hobby isn't dirty, but some of the players definitely file their spikes.