Listing Reprints as "unknown" [Archive] - Net54baseball.com Forums

View Full Version : Listing Reprints as "unknown"

Edwolf1963

06-27-2016, 02:11 PM

This one has so many red flags, not sure where to begin?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ty-Cobb-1909-t-206-Piedmont-/191899707213?hash=item2cae1d274d:g:H9YAAOSwOVpXZIN F

Looks like a reprint from the off-color and paper stock. "No returns". Seller tried to sell back in April and appeared to renege (see neg feedback - "God Bless" language and all). Now relisting again and look at the bidders - one with 4 feedback and 36 bid retractions in last 6 months :eek: bidding it up to close to $300 currently. I still don't know why eBay continues to allow this crap ?? :mad:

My guess is the seller bought it, found out it was a reprint, now stuck with it, trying to unload as an "unknown" knowing it won't get two bucks as a reprint.

Seems like this game is a regular occurrence. You'd think eBay would require 3rd party authentication or stipulate returns for not authentic/not as described. I realize they will usually back you in these cases if push comes to shove, but it shouldn't even come to that.

njdunkin1

06-27-2016, 02:27 PM

Agreed, I was about to post in regards to the same auction. The font looks off on the card as well. Even looking at the bidding pattern, the 4 feedback bidder looks to be shilling.
NJ

Paul S

06-27-2016, 02:32 PM

Gotta love that cup-o-tea toning.

vintagetoppsguy

06-27-2016, 02:41 PM

Look at his other auctions - 1914 CJ Joe Jackson, 33 Goudey Lajoie, T206 Plank.

Unknown. Yeah, right!

Aquarian Sports Cards

06-27-2016, 03:20 PM

it is against ebay policy to list a card as "unknown" off to my latest round of reporting items. Someone watch them and let us know if they're actually removed.

nat

06-27-2016, 04:15 PM

It says "t206" at the top, and "unknown" further down. If it's a reprint (or a forgery) it isn't a t206 card. I assume that these guys list their cards as "unknown" in the hopes of avoiding prison, but since it says "t206" at the top, could they still be nailed for fraud?

Perhaps of more relevance, when it comes back as "? AUTH" from PSA, will the sucker who buys it be able to file a "item not as described" claim, since it isn't a t206 card?

granite75

06-27-2016, 04:18 PM

I flag these things on eBay and report the item. If they're selling as a reprint, they shouldn't list it as original pre-WWII which many of these do.

bravos4evr

06-27-2016, 04:19 PM

Aquarian Sports Cards

06-27-2016, 04:50 PM

as a noob with t206, these sorts of things care me to death, sure many of you experienced collectors of these cards can spot a fake, but me? I am not so sure. Look at this one for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222163934122?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291803934819?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222163939360?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I would be hard pressed to nail these as reprints if the seller was even less cryptic than these ones are.

How do you sift through the crap without hopping over and asking for opinions (and risking getting sniped at the same time if it's real?)

These are the sellers I rail about all the time. The ones who give novice collectors the impression that maybe they can get something for nothing. My favorite is the Wagner. Somehow posting a picture of PSA SAYING it's fake is going to help the legitimacy of the card???

Very simple rule. If it looks too good to be true it is. If you are buying from a seller who does not GUARANTEE the authenticity of his cards, you are playing with fire. And frankly I think you could post every card you are considering on here and ask for thoughts. I'm new here, but it wouldn't bother me. Thoughts?

egbeachley

06-27-2016, 04:50 PM

Here is how to get back at them. Bid a high, even dollar amount, like $180, then $200. Let the shill bid over that amount, then retract to $190. Then you do a retraction with just over 12 hours to go, which is the latest allowed.

They get stuck paying fees on the $190 winning bid.

TheNightmanCometh

06-27-2016, 04:52 PM

I don't usually bid on anything pre-WWII, but when I officially do I will never buy from a seller that lists their card as "unknown" or "real, but listing as reprint because it isn't graded".

Aquarian Sports Cards

06-27-2016, 04:54 PM

I don't usually bid on anything pre-WWII, but when I officially do I will never buy from a seller that lists their card as "unknown" or "real, but listing as reprint because it isn't graded".

Good, if all else fails I will always happily offer my 2¢

Buythatcard

06-27-2016, 04:54 PM

Look at his other auctions - 1914 CJ Joe Jackson, 33 Goudey Lajoie, T206 Plank.

Unknown. Yeah, right!

Notice that many of the same bidders for each one of these cards. 36 retractions, 66 retractions, etc.

bravos4evr

06-27-2016, 05:09 PM

These are the sellers I rail about all the time. The ones who give novice collectors the impression that maybe they can get something for nothing. My favorite is the Wagner. Somehow posting a picture of PSA SAYING it's fake is going to help the legitimacy of the card???

Very simple rule. If it looks too good to be true it is. If you are buying from a seller who does not GUARANTEE the authenticity of his cards, you are playing with fire. And frankly I think you could post every card you are considering on here and ask for thoughts. I'm new here, but it wouldn't bother me. Thoughts?

How do you spot the reprints , ungraded, if they are listed as real raw cards and no cryptic titles? I'd hate to spend even $30 for a common only to find out it was fake aged reprint. thirty bucks is thirty bucks!

nat

06-27-2016, 06:37 PM

I don't buy many cards compared to the other folks around here, but in my (limited) experience, the scammers usually have red flags in their postings. Limited feedback is one. "I bought it at an estate auction/inherited it from my uncle/etc don't really know what it is" is another. "Listing as reprint/unknown" is another. It being a raw, high-dollar card is another.

Really, I think that the best advice is to not get greedy. Zillions of people trawl ebay every day, including everyone on this board. The deal of a lifetime is not going to sneak through. If there's anything iffy about a posting, just don't bid. It's only a baseball card, there will be another eventually.

As for spotting fakes, it's easier with the card in hand. For pre-WWII cards, a black light and magnification help a lot. (Incidentally, David Cycleback has a useful website: http://www.cycleback.com/baseballcards/index.html ) On line, it helps to be familiar with the issue. I'm not a t206 guy, so I don't have much to say about the ones linked. But the Johnson and the Cobb have suspicious corners, they look clipped and then filed down to me. But those postings are so suspicious that I'd never bid on them even if the cards looked good.

Edited to add: the ones to be really careful with are the postings by people who don't really sell cards. If they usually sell, like, yard sale junk, and just happen to have a card, the posting itself won't have anything sketchy about it, but you also can't trust them to be able to spot fakes. I usually check seller's history, and deal with these guys carefully.

Billy5858

06-27-2016, 08:10 PM

I buy only raw T206 commons if other people with high feedback number have already bid. And seller has good feedback rating. And I buy my HOFers and SLers only if graded 2 or 3.......also there is a great thread on Net54 showing how to look for fakes or trimmed cards using T206ers as an example since they are traded so much

drcy

06-27-2016, 09:43 PM

A good rule is to gather a list of reputable sellers who know what they sell and buy raw cards from them. There are many good sellers on and off eBay.

Back when I was an active collector, I'd have links to my favorite sellers and I'd see what they had for sale. In part it was because they sold authentic items, in part because they had a plethora of stuff I'd be interest in and in part because I knew from experience that they were reliable about shipping, etc.

As far as the fakes T206s shown here, the front of the genuine T206s have a white coating (before the printing) and anywhere where are surface abrasions (scrapes, creases, edges, etc) it should be somewhat darker (The back of a genuine T206s is somewhat darker than the front white borders). The reprints linked to here are much whiter where the front surface is missing, which is a giveaway of a reprint. Though I do agree that a few of the reprints linked to here are very good.

Also, if you look at enough cards, most reprints are obvious and, as already noted, most scam/tricky sales have red flags in the written description-- "being sold as reprint," etc. After all, all the examples posted here were being sold as "unknown" or "reprint." Some descriptions have enough red flags you don't even have to see the pictures to know it's a reprint.

Another thing to do is to check out the seller's other auctions. As a collector of rare photos and considering bidding on an expensive esoteric photo, I'll check out what else the seller is selling. If he has other photos I know about and it's obvious from the descriptions that he's knowledgeable about photos, I'll bid with confidence. In the case of the seller here, he's offering two "unknown" Goudey Lajoies, along with an unkown T206 Wagner, unknown Ruth Rookie, unknown Cracker Jack Joe Jackson, unknown Leaf Ruth, unknown 53 Mantle-- yet his 1992 Donruss Mike Piazza is being sold as original and PSA graded. If you can't deduce that something fishy or questionable might be going on from the totality of his listings, you shouldn't be bidding on expensive baseball cards. Even if you take him at his word, which in my opinion would be most charitable, he says he doesn't know if what he is selling is real or fake and is offering the buyer no guarantee of authenticity-- not exactly the type of seller you want to be purchasing raw high end cards from.

Jason

06-28-2016, 05:14 AM

Seems to be a recent rash of T210 JJ reprints listed as unknown or even just listed as reprints on eBay that routinely sell for more than authentic low-mid grade Red Borders. Not sure who continues to buy them but its madness.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=T210+Joe+jackson&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=23228-3048&_sargn=-1%26saslc%3D1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200&LH_Complete=1

Leon

06-28-2016, 06:07 AM

as a noob with t206, these sorts of things care me to death, sure many of you experienced collectors of these cards can spot a fake, but me? I am not so sure. Look at this one for example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222163934122?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291803934819?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222163939360?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I would be hard pressed to nail these as reprints if the seller was even less cryptic than these ones are.

How do you sift through the crap without hopping over and asking for opinions (and risking getting sniped at the same time if it's real?)

How do you sift through the crap without hopping over and asking for opinions (and risking getting sniped at the same time if it's real?

You can always PM me or other board members for some help.

btw, if someone wants to report this one it could help someone else.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Honus-Wagner-e90-1-American-Caramels-Baseball-Card-RARE-WOW-/142037769539?hash=item21121c5d43:g:Xf8AAOSwzJ5XcGC H

.

Jayworld

06-28-2016, 08:09 AM

How do you sift through the crap without hopping over and asking for opinions (and risking getting sniped at the same time if it's real?

You can always PM me or other board members for some help.

btw, if someone wants to report this one it could help someone else.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Honus-Wagner-e90-1-American-Caramels-Baseball-Card-RARE-WOW-/142037769539?hash=item21121c5d43:g:Xf8AAOSwzJ5XcGC H

.

Leon:
Reported.

Thanks.

bravos4evr

06-28-2016, 03:17 PM

Republicaninmass

06-28-2016, 04:17 PM

:cool:it is against ebay policy to list a card as "unknown" off to my latest round of reporting items. Someone watch them and let us know if they're actually removed.

Link? I can't find that specific verbiage

unamuzd1

06-28-2016, 09:44 PM

:cool:

Link? I can't find that specific verbiage
I'm guessing it was a reference to their Authenticity Disclaimer policy.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/authenticity-disclaimers.html

Leon

06-29-2016, 08:13 AM

I'm guessing it was a reference to their Authenticity Disclaimer policy.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/authenticity-disclaimers.html

And a synopsis of the rules...

Sellers are not allowed to:
List items that aren't authentic
List items if they're not sure if they are authentic
In addition, sellers can't disclaim authenticity of their item by stating, for example:
"I cannot guarantee the authenticity of this item, so please bid accordingly."
"Vintage handbag Chanel???"
"Looks like this could be a Louis Vuitton bag"
"I believe this is painted by Degas, but I can't be sure."
"I got this from an estate sale, so I have no idea if it's real or not."
"The autograph looks real to me."
"I'm no expert, so look at the pictures and decide for yourself if it's real."

.

Paul S

06-29-2016, 08:47 AM

And a synopsis of the rules...

[B]Sellers are not allowed to:
...

"I believe this is painted by Degas, but I can't be sure."
.

My personal favorite.

ALR-bishop

06-29-2016, 09:10 AM

I think there may be a Dean Chance 1967 Topps card in here but am not sure ;)

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img016.jpg

Mantle, Koufax and Mays may be in these cards, but am not sure

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img017.jpg

njdunkin1

06-29-2016, 09:11 AM

I think there may be a Dean Chance 1967 Topps card in here but am not sure ;)

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img016.jpg

Haha, nice :]

Leon

07-01-2016, 06:01 AM

My personal favorite.

The releasing of all liability in hopes of catching a sucker statement is nice....

"I'm no expert, so look at the pictures and decide for yourself if it's real."

.

irishdenny

07-01-2016, 10:58 AM

And a synopsis of the rules...

Sellers are not allowed to:
List items that aren't authentic
List items if they're not sure if they are authentic
In addition, sellers can't disclaim authenticity of their item by stating, for example:
"I cannot guarantee the authenticity of this item, so please bid accordingly."
"Vintage handbag Chanel???"
"Looks like this could be a Louis Vuitton bag"
"I believe this is painted by Degas, but I can't be sure."
"I got this from an estate sale, so I have no idea if it's real or not."
"The autograph looks real to me."
"I'm no expert, so look at the pictures and decide for yourself if it's real."

.

My personal favorite.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk