Grading cards that are "damaged" on release

[darkhorse9]

Another thread brings up a question I've always wondered. How does PSA handle cards that are already "damaged" when they are released?

What I mean is, cards such as the one below are issued with heavy creases or staples or other deformities that would otherwise drop a card to a 1 or auth at best.

They certainly take into account staining, which is inherent with many food issues. But what about creases, hang tag holes, staples etc.

I don't grade a lot of cards so I've wondered about this.

I know this is not a pre-war example but I'm sure there are some out there.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz44/Mark_Fricke/wiffle_zpsmsjug4hr.jpg

[Exhibitman]

If the item is mechanically damaged after issue it has to be downgraded. If the manufacturing process causes the damage, that is a good question. I guess you could argue it either way if the item was stapled to the carton or bag. But would that mean that a specimen that had never been stapled should be considered not as-issued and therefore only get an "A" grade?

I know that I had a lengthy discussion with SGC some years ago over the back stamps on certain T cards issued in Cali (T223-T229 Pet/Kopec but I believe it also affects some Obaks) that were actually factory stamped on their backs. Eventually, SGC properly agreed that when those cards were presented they would not be downgraded for the stamping but are instead noted on the flip as stamped.

[Gary Dunaier]

The best thing to do would be to note the defect but also mention that it came that way.

For example: "Straight fold down length of item (as issued)."

[BeanTown]

A grading company should grade the card for how it looks, regardless of the manufacturing process. Many minor league cards are wrapped in cellophane which causes soft corners. Little Sun Jeters are hand packed in a hard plastic container.

[nat]

It's possible to get a PSA 8 on a t202, which means that they must not count factory damage against the card. According to PSA's official standards a card with two huge creases couldn't get above a 2. Since every t202 has two huge creases, and they can still get grades above a 2, PSA must not count factory damage.

[mattsey9]

PSA offers high grades on late 70s OPC hockey cards whose cutting process left the edges naturally ragged.

[BobC]

Aside from the T202's, another great pre-war example of an item damaged in its distribution would be the white version, S-74 silks that originally came with a paper advertisement attached to their backs. These were then folded over when put into the cigarette packs so that virtually every silk you find that still has the advertising back attached has a big fold in the middle.

For whatever reason though, PSA does not grade the silks at all. Probably more so because the silks are material that can easily fray, and if there are creases, they can be easily ironed out if there is no paper backing still attached. They would have to come up with unique grading criteria and because it is just the one issue, likely didn't want to bother.

SGC and BVG do grade them (as did GAI when they were still in business) but, their grades don't always make sense for the silks with the paper backing still attached. The vast majority of graded silks are in SGC holders so, I haven't really seen enough BVG (or GAI) graded silks to form a good opinion as to their grading standard and critieria in regards to this particular issue. As for SGC, it appears that they do take the creases into consideration to some extent in grading the silks as you never see any that have the usual crease in the paper backing that grade higher than a 40, or maybe a 50.

However, once in a blue moon you do come across an ad-backed silk that did not get creased and folded over. Not sure why. Maybe there were some tobacco products that these got distributed in that were slightly larger and didn't require the fold over or, maybe the person doing the packing occasionally didn't fold the silks for whatever reason. In this instance though, since there are some unfolded, ad-backed silks that are out there, I think the grading companies would/should have to take that damage into consideration and only give the highest grades to the unfolded silks.

BobC

[steve B]

A grading company should grade the card for how it looks, regardless of the manufacturing process. Many minor league cards are wrapped in cellophane which causes soft corners. Little Sun Jeters are hand packed in a hard plastic container.


I think there should be a difference shown for how the manufacturer intended the card to be issued.
Stuff like T201, T202, the whiffleball sleeves like the one shown, and the Dixie lids were intended to be issued with folds. 51 Topps, Ringside, the SI for kids cards and a few others came in perforated panels. Batter ups and 64 Topps standups and others came with die cuts as part of the design.

And nobody expects any of those to only get the same grade as a card with a big crease or holes.

The game cards have rounded corners.

And that's fine since they were intended to have those round corners.

Any card intended to be cut off a box or other item can get a number grade if all the printed borders showing where the card ended and the next card or packaging began.

And hardly anyone thinks they should all be treated as trimmed (For what it's worth I consider them trimmed, but since they were intended to be cut out I can see the other side of things. plus I wouldn't pass up most of those cards simply because it wasn't still on the box or was missing the tab. )

I'm still a bit on the fence about the stapled cards from chips. Obviously the manufacturer intended for them all to be stapled. I'd love to see the original complete packaging since it looks like they were stapled to wood. Maybe the top of a wooden chip can? That would be pretty cool.

So it is a lot more like the minor league sets and the little sun, and for that matter a few sets from Classic and a couple other manufacturers.
The cards were intended to be rectangular, but they picked a packing method that caused some damage.

But in some cases I think that's also let slide a bit - Cracker jacks, and some other cards issued with products that left stains get a bit of leeway?


Steve B