1952 Mays on ebay

[orly57]

Was anyone watching that psa 2 Mays that sold on ebay for 2150? It looks like a 7, and I couldnt figure out how or why it is a 2. I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts, but didnt want to bring it up until after it sold. What do you guys think? It sold for what some 5s sell for. Worth it?

[GasHouseGang]

It's really hard to tell for sure from the scan, but there appears to be a bend to the left of Willy's head that runs about 2/3rds the length of the card. PSA isn't in the habit of giving a 2 to a card that nice for no reason.

[orly57]

David, I didnt say that PSA conspired against this card. I am sure they have their reason for the technical grade. My post was really meant to begin a discussion on the value of a technical grade vs. the value of a card's appearance and presentation. If that slab on this card had a 7 on it instead of a 2, I dont think you would question it for a second. I personally buy the card and not the holder, so I prefer this card to MOST 52 Mays cards that come up regardless of the grade. Find me a nicer one in ANY grade. My question to the board was intended to start discussion on grade vs presentation for purposes of collectibility AND value. Usually, my practice of buying the card and not the holder saves me money because I get a beautiful card at a lesser grade. In this instance, however, we have a card that with the lowly grade of a 2 has sold for what some 5s sell for (and i believe rightfully so). I am curious as to the opinions of others on the issue.

[ajquigs]

Sorry ... accidental dupe post ... glitchy mouse.

[ajquigs]

I agree that this Mays card seems to be a good illustration that grades are mainly objective assessments of condition (not subjective assessments of appeal). As David said, this card has flaws that will be evident with the card in hand unless the grade is a huge swing-and-a-miss by PSA; which is possible but unlikely to me especially since I think human nature would cause a grader to take a little extra care knowing he's grading a '52 Mays.

Thus, to me it's a question of the nature of the flaws that can't be seen on the scan. Based on the '2' grading standard (copied below) I guess there may be creases and little to no surface gloss. Before buying this Mays card I would definitely seek a lot of details - and probably additional scans - from the seller. In my experience a number of sellers will provide you a fair description of the flaws if you ask.

When buying a low grade card I think of the Ott scanned below. It has a raised ridge, not just a crease, running the length of the card through his face. It's visible, but not very obvious on the scan. The way I have it displayed - in a case along with other lower grade DS HOFers - the flaw doesn't stand out and I'm okay with it. Naturally, my standards for a $2,000+ card would be very different.

A PSA Good 2 card's corners show accelerated rounding and surface wear is starting to become obvious. A good card may have scratching, scuffing, light staining, or chipping of enamel on obverse. There may be several creases. Original gloss may be completely absent. Card may show considerable discoloration. Centering must be 90/10 or better on the front and back.

[1952boyntoncollector]

David, I didnt say that PSA conspired against this card. I am sure they have their reason for the technical grade. My post was really meant to begin a discussion on the value of a technical grade vs. the value of a card's appearance and presentation. If that slab on this card had a 7 on it instead of a 2, I dont think you would question it for a second. I personally buy the card and not the holder, so I prefer this card to MOST 52 Mays cards that come up regardless of the grade. Find me a nicer one in ANY grade. My question to the board was intended to start discussion on grade vs presentation for purposes of collectibility AND value. Usually, my practice of buying the card and not the holder saves me money because I get a beautiful card at a lesser grade. In this instance, however, we have a card that with the lowly grade of a 2 has sold for what some 5s sell for (and i believe rightfully so). I am curious as to the opinions of others on the issue.

we dont know who bought the card..theres a question whether its a legit sale...if a real person on this board bought the card that would end the question of legitimacy of the sale.....anyway until people stop selling the holder and not the card...the holder matters more than people admit..

[1952boyntoncollector]

the winning bidder on that mays psa 2 came out of nowhere

u***i ( 50Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description:
Item Title:
1952 Topps #261 Willie Mays New York Giants HOF PSA 2 GOOD " AWESOME CENTERING "
Bids on this item: 1

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1
Items bid on: 1
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0

[begsu1013]

where's a pic of the back?

the slightest hint of paper loss w/ overall eye appeal like that would auto knock it down to a 2, thus being graded properly.

happens all the time and usually end up being steals.

[pokerplyr80]

The back was clean. The issue appears to be on the front, whatever is going on in the background to the left.

Quite possibly the nicest looking Mays PSA 2 in existence, and at the least one of the best. I'm not sure why people are surprised by the sale price.

[begsu1013]

let's see the back, still....

[pokerplyr80]

let's see the back, still....

There is a link to the ebay listing in the Mays crossover thread. I'm on my phone so posting links and pics is difficult. But I just clicked through to see it.

[irv]

It still blows me away the price differences between grades.

I know it's the norm, and I understand why, but I just can't get my head around how this card is worth $37,000 more dollars than that 2.
http://www.goodwinandco.com/1952_topps_willie_mays__261_psa_8_nm_mt-lot30284.aspx

[Brianruns10]

It's really hard to tell for sure from the scan, but there appears to be a bend to the left of Willy's head that runs about 2/3rds the length of the card. PSA isn't in the habit of giving a 2 to a card that nice for no reason.

When PSA gives a grade like this, it must be for a reason. And sometimes photos don't show that reason. For example, I bought a '52 Durocher that was PSA 4 but my god the corners and the color...it was a surefire PSA 7 to my mind. I couldn't figure out what they were thinking...until I got the card in hand and saw there was a hairline crease that transected Durocher's face. Very subtle but definitely there. A good lesson learned.

[begsu1013]

previous card owner contacted me (and laughing at all of this) but the card did have a very minute surface wrinkle that isn't visible in scans.

all part of it and while it blows away the technical grade, I'd probably crack and resubmit. worth a shot or two.

and I doubt very seriously this guy shilled this auction or the pete rose 7 that was being talked about in another thread.

there's no need for him to do it, especially on these...

[pokerplyr80]

With the market the changing so fast it's easy to jump to conclusions and conspiracy theories. Who knows exactly how much, if any, of what's going around is true, but sometimes a collector just steps up and spends big to get a nice card.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I'm telling you, it's oil money gone wild.:D

[begsu1013]

well from what other threads are pointing to (and making a lot more sense) is that this could be a group of internationals looking for somewhere to park money. at least they quoted somebody vs all this talk w/o one shred of evidence.

seems to be better rationality there vs claiming it's 4 guys that are creating the entire stir in every single aspect of the hobby.

i have an experiment going on w/ one of these *1950's* rc cards just to see that i set @ a $.99 auction w/ no buy it now option.

within minutes, an ebay user actually offered me $2500 for the card. ***BUT*** he has the same card, same grade listed @ $7xxx.

this is where it gets good. he actually dropped the "buying group" angle, n54 and said $2500 is the right price...but again, he's asking $7xxx for his and wanted to scoop mine up.

im was just curious just to see what happens whether i win or lose.

but that certainly was not the way i expected the experiment to start.

mainly wanted to see who the bidders where/are, check history and bidding patterns.

[begsu1013]

so far all bidders seem legit w/ several feedbacks left from pwcc, probs, champsnbaums, memory lane, etc.

edit: there is 1 private and one that is under 15, but were very early bids.

[pokerplyr80]

Should be interesting. At least no one will be able to claim it was shilled.

[begsu1013]

should be about the best market gauger out there....

edit: only 1 card, not consigned, wont be shilled, watched thoroughly and will report back if it's bid up and not paid for.

and a second ebayer asked how much to end it which was replied w/ "im open to an offer..."

it will not be ended early.

[TheNightmanCometh]

should be about the best market gauger out there....

edit: only 1 card, not consigned, wont be shilled, watched thoroughly and will report back if it's bid up and not paid for.

and a second ebayer asked how much to end it which was replied w/ "im open to an offer..."

it will not be ended early.

Bob, you're doing God's work. :)

[begsu1013]

this is absolute nonsense, actually!

i have literally been peppered w/ several great and tempting offers already to end it.

4 very legit offers actually and several by good people (amongst all the boards) that did not know this was my account.

there absolutely is no "buying group".

i can tell this already and still have almost 5 days to go.

and yes, i did intentionally mislead by saying "1950's rc".

[begsu1013]

Bob, you're doing God's work. :)

thanks, bud.

and didn't even hype up the card in the listing one bit.

simply put: "let the card do the talking"

no extra fillers or puff fluffers like "centered, high end, top-tier, hot, pop blah" or any of that non-sense.

i even put $30 shipping to kinda sorta work against the d@mn thing!

[TheNightmanCometh]

thanks, bud.

and didn't even hype up the card in the listing one bit.

simply put: "let the card do the talking"

no extra fillers or puff fluffers like "centered, high end, top-tier, hot, pop blah" or any of that non-sense.

i even put $30 shipping to kinda sorta work against the d@mn thing!

That's just so dang odd. I'm really still trying to wrap my head behind the meaning of all of this. I don't follow the hobby as deeply as some of you, because frankly I don't have the $$$, but it's really fascinating to see all of this go down and play out.

[begsu1013]

original lowballer / buying group theorist / guy who had his card listed @ $7xxx has now retracted his bid and lowered his card drastically.

even funnier part: this person also has **16** bid retractions.

very interesting. maybe i should out'em?


and nightman,

don't worry about wrapping your head around it. just thought id have some fun and obtain some real data on one of these "hot" rookie cards that this supposed buying group is sucking up.

the only thing that has been suspicious so far is original n54'r trying to lowball which had the same non centered card @ $7500 claiming the buying group.

exact opposite of what i was expecting.


btw: and just so nobody makes any false accusations, it is ***NOT*** peter.

[Brianruns10]

Mays sure seems to be hot right now. Just the other day I got an offer through Heritage Auctions from a fellow wanting to buy my 52 Topps Mays PSA 6. He offered a thousand over what i paid for him, just two years ago.

[TheNightmanCometh]

original lowballer / buying group theorist / guy who had his card listed @ $7xxx has now retracted his bid and lowered his card drastically.

even funnier part: this person also has **16** bid retractions.

very interesting. maybe i should out'em?


and nightman,

don't worry about wrapping your head around it. just thought id have some fun and obtain some real data on one of these "hot" rookie cards that this supposed buying group is sucking up.

the only thing that has been suspicious so far is original n54'r trying to lowball which had the same non centered card @ $7500 claiming the buying group.

exact opposite of what i was expecting.


btw: and just so nobody makes any false accusations, it is ***NOT*** peter.

What's happening with your card is super interesting and very entertaining. Can't believe a n54'r tried to lowball you, while selling the same card for 2.5 times what they're asking for theirs. That's like taking a reprint Mantle rookie, scuffing it up, and duping buyers on the bay. Thankfully you're not gullible and know what your cards are worth.

[pokerplyr80]

Any update on the mystery card experiment?

[begsu1013]

2 more offers, stuck at $2550 and will prolly stay there til the last 10 secs.

a few great conversations though!

several more 7s surfaced, but centering is key! 😉

[pokerplyr80]

Centering is pretty important on these types of cards as of late as is evident by the big sales mentioned on this board. I've paid a premium for a nice centered card myself from time to time. Good luck with the sale.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Mays sure seems to be hot right now. Just the other day I got an offer through Heritage Auctions from a fellow wanting to buy my 52 Topps Mays PSA 6. He offered a thousand over what i paid for him, just two years ago.

Heck id pay that too

[bobsbbcards]

I have a buddy that's looking to sell this card. Thoughts? What avenue would you use to sell it if it were yours?

http://www.bobsbbcards.com/images/miscellaneous/51Bowman305Mays.jpg

http://www.bobsbbcards.com/images/miscellaneous/51Bowman305MaysBack.jpg

[Canofcorn]

A good friend would tell him he's nuts for selling now, and that beauty will double in a year and to thank you later

[pokerplyr80]

A good friend would tell him he's nuts for selling now, and that beauty will double in a year and to thank you later

The way things are going it could double in a month. Or they could all come back down in a year. Hard to predict the future. I hope you're right though.

Edit: as for where to sell that card I don't think you can go wrong anywhere right now. Every major AH and Ebay are recording record prices. Definitely a seller's market for HOF RCs.

[1952boyntoncollector]

people buy direct also all the time......on a card worths several thousands you are talking about an auction house getting potentially a few thousand instead of a good part of that money going to the sellers pocket..

but some buyers just dont pony up direct like they will with an auction house for safety or whatever other reason..

[Jdoggs]

Interesting there are 7 rose PSA 8 rookies and 15 rose PSA 7 rookies listed on eBay. With such a large supply prices have been decreasing for the 8's and 7's.
The PSA 9 rose rookies and only PSA 10 rookie are in low supply so they are more likely to retain their value.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Interesting there are 7 rose PSA 8 rookies and 15 rose PSA 7 rookies listed on eBay. With such a large supply prices have been decreasing for the 8's and 7's.
The PSA 9 rose rookies and only PSA 10 rookie are in low supply so they are more likely to retain their value.

plus many psa 7s and 8s on other sites now too....its supply AND demand not just supply remember.....

[Republicaninmass]

And the PSA 10 rose just came up


Pardon me if it's been discussed

[Jdoggs]

The demand for the rose 7 and 8 rookies will be hard to keep with the large supply at current prices.
The demand for the rose 9 Rookies and 10 will be more likely to keep up with the limited supply so prices for those should continue to rise.
The only PSA 10 rose rookie will be in heritage auctions sale this summer.

[begsu1013]

you are dead wrong.

centered cards will always be in demand

and the supply is certainly not overflowing.

outta all those 7's and 8's that are posted,

id probably only be happy w 3 of them.

but the one id really want, id go big on.

clear cut evidence that you are solely looking at the flips,

and not the cards.

in closing, your definition of supply and mine are most definitely....

off-centered, dogg.

[Jdoggs]

I like the Rose rookie PSA 9's as both a collector and investor and I especially like the Rose rookie PSA 10:)
Jdoggs

[begsu1013]

I especially like the Rose rookie PSA 10:)
Jdoggs

my point exactly.

[Jdoggs]

you are dead wrong.

centered cards will always be in demand

and the supply is certainly not overflowing.

outta all those 7's and 8's that are posted,

id probably only be happy w 3 of them.

but the one id really want, id go big on.
Let's see how the sales of all the PSA 7 and 8 rose rookies go and we can see if you are correct that the prices won't drop from the current highs. Even for the so called centered ones. If you look at eBay completed sales you can see that the most recent sales have already dropped from the highs.

[begsu1013]

you are the only one concerned about what the oc 7s and 8s go for.

i could care less.

but enjoy your one track continued care only about prices.


quick question:

you like your psa 10 w/ that huge fish eye and numerous pd's?

or just mesmerized w/ the price that it fetches?

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/26029/20881277/rose10.jpg

[Jdoggs]

you are the only one concerned about what the oc 7s and 8s go for.

i could care less.

but enjoy your one track continued care only about prices.


quick question:

you like your psa 10 w/ that huge fish eye and numerous pd's?

or just mesmerized w/ the price that it fetches?

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/26029/20881277/rose10.jpg
Quick answer:
I like PSA 10's better than PSA 9's. I also like PSA 9's better than PSA 8's.
Reason:
PSA 10's and 9's have proven to be great investments.
However:
For PSA 8's and below this is not always the case depending on the card.

[begsu1013]

Quick answer:
I like PSA 10's better than PSA 9's. I also like PSA 9's better than PSA 8's.
Reason:
PSA 10's and 9's have proven to be great investments.
However:
For PSA 8's and below this is not always the case depending on the card.

thank you. ya proved my point again.

you care nothing about the card itself, solely what the flip says.

and not only that, your only motive is the investment angle.

you're a sad lil puppy, dogg.

[Jdoggs]

thank you. ya proved my point again.

you care nothing about the card itself, solely what the flip says.

and not only that, your only motive is the investment angle.

you're a sad lil puppy, dogg.

Well if PSA says a card is a 9 or a 10 I believe their opinion more than yours.
You are the one who doesn't like to discuss your previous sale of rose PSA 9 rookie of $35k recently and you brought up your sale when I didn't even know.
Funny how you like to show the cards you bought but any sale you do you are offended.
To answer your question of where you posted that you sold your 52 mantle topps PSA 7(oc) for $27k a few months ago it was on a thread in collectors forum I read cause you said you sold your 52 topps set to help fund a lake house for your family.
Oh and the source of where you sold your 52 topps mantle PSA 5 and 51 mantle PSA 6 for the $34k range combined was on your eBay completed sales page.
So that's the answers to your questions dogg.

[begsu1013]

again. point proven and caught in your own lie.

you said i boasted my sales prices when in actuality you stalked them and then posted them because you were pissed about me turning down your low ball offer.



oh and the sales you are referring to on the 52 topps were last year, dogg.

not last week or month.

but good to see you finally getting your facts straight.

[begsu1013]

Well if PSA says a card is a 9 or a 10 I believe their opinion .

well since they say it, it must be true.

[pawpawdiv9]

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mb547bce176f5f11028893944319937c6o0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300

[begsu1013]

well since they say it, it must be true.

jason cheng.

[Leon]

jason cheng.

The next time you reference him or say his name on this board, without being provoked, you will be suspended.



To clarify my point a bit, one of my biggest peeves on this board is when someone follows someone else around giving them a hard time for no (new) reason. I have experienced it, wouldn't let it continue to happen to me and won't let it happen to any board member if I can help it.

.

[begsu1013]

jason cheng.

suspend me, please.

[Leon]

jason cheng.

suspend me, please.

ok

[1952boyntoncollector]

what the heck...you would think avid sellers with cards that are going up in the market would want to stay around ...or fake another new account...we shall see.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You don't pull the mask of the old Lone Ranger
and you don't mess around with Leon
doo doo da doo
dee dee da dee dee dee

[Leon]

Could of have done without that :). It's never a good day when that kind of stuff happens.

[1952boyntoncollector]

wierd he posts over 1200 times..and this thread subject matter enough for him to get banned..... its like when you offer 58 for a card and the guy wants 70....and later he sells it to someone else for 57..cause he cant go back to the original guy which would make sense cause can get offered more..

people in the card world are interesting......also in the casino world...people will lose 200 dollars waiting for their free comp to for a 10 dollar chicken sandwich..

[Stonepony]

Well his perfectly centered Rose rookie PSA 7 - Experiment card- went for $4,352. Not overly impressive at all IMO. I have no idea what it says about the buying group theory....nor could I care less. I don't own a Rose rookie because, well, it's an ugly card.

[ullmandds]

Well his perfectly centered Rose rookie PSA 7 - Experiment card- went for $4,352. Not overly impressive at all IMO. I have no idea what it says about the buying group theory....nor could I care less. I don't own a Rose rookie because, well, it's an ugly card.

i agree...despite the fact the rose rookie has always had somewhat of a mystique to me...it is a lame card. i much prefer the 64 or the kahns.

[Peter_Spaeth]

i agree...despite the fact the rose rookie has always had somewhat of a mystique to me...it is a lame card. i much prefer the 64 or the kahns.

For 1 percent of the price of the rookie.

[pokerplyr80]

Well his perfectly centered Rose rookie PSA 7 - Experiment card- went for $4,352. Not overly impressive at all IMO. I have no idea what it says about the buying group theory....nor could I care less. I don't own a Rose rookie because, well, it's an ugly card.

I think that had more to do with the fact that ebay was flooded with them. It's still impressive when you consider what they were selling for a couple of weeks ago.

[Dpeck100]

Up over 100% in a month. Absolutely awesome. If you owned a position in a stock that doubled in a handful of weeks and you sold and took your profit you are beyond thrilled. Nice going regardless of the future direction of the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The seller is listed as New York. Bob is in Savannah. Did he say it was his card or was he just pointing to it as a good test?

[Stonepony]

It was his, I'm certain. Now has a PSA 7.5 Ryan rookie for sale.... come on Bob, test the auction waters again!!!

[pokerplyr80]

He did say it was his card. Maybe he has a mailing address in NY as well.

[ullmandds]

For 1 percent of the price of the rookie.

yes...thats a beauty!

[Jdoggs]

Thank you Leon for handling the situation and being the best moderator!:):)

[CW]

sorry, nvm

[orly57]

For 1 percent of the price of the rookie.

Can you imagine what the '64 would sell for if Topps hadnt made that abortion of a rookie card in 1963? So much nicer! As someone else mentioned previously, I am a rookie collector, and would theoretically love to own a Rose Rookie, but I dont simply because it is so damn ugly.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Can you imagine what the '64 would sell for if Topps hadnt made that abortion of a rookie card in 1963? So much nicer! As someone else mentioned previously, I am a rookie collector, and would theoretically love to own a Rose Rookie, but I dont simply because it is so damn ugly.

I feel that way about the Rose and the Bench. I've owned both but sold them because I hated them so much, and instead have the 64 Rose and 71 Bench.

[jb67]

Can you imagine what the '64 would sell for if Topps hadnt made that abortion of a rookie card in 1963? So much nicer! As someone else mentioned previously, I am a rookie collector, and would theoretically love to own a Rose Rookie, but I dont simply because it is so damn ugly.

I believe the Rose rookie is the same photo that is on his 64 card. Amazing how a little cropping changes the appearance.

[ullmandds]

I feel that way about the Rose and the Bench. I've owned both but sold them because I hated them so much, and instead have the 64 Rose and 71 Bench.

I started acquiring the cards from the 50's of players I coveted as a child a few years ago...and while my initial intention was to obtain rookies in most cases...I deviated when I felt the rookies were not the best looking cards to me. As a result I have a 56 clemente...a 55 aaron...a kahns auto'd rose...etc.

[mintonlyplz]

I believe the Rose rookie is the same photo that is on his 64 card. Amazing how a little cropping changes the appearance.
It is....

[Leon]

I like the Rose rookie PSA 9's as both a collector and investor and I especially like the Rose rookie PSA 10:)
Jdoggs

I have to agree with Bob on your view of cards in high grade holders. All 7s aren't the same as well as 8s,9s or 10s... Once investors realize that then there will be some realizations, on a few levels :), which aren't fun.

One last thing is that Bob is back on the board (hi Bob). If he wants to post he can. It seems I wasn't "seeing" some of the things going on. Your name absolutely should have been by your posts the whole time as it is now.

At any rate I only want world peace ...happy collecting....

[1952boyntoncollector]

I have to agree with Bob on your view of cards in high grade holders. All 7s aren't the same as well as 8s,9s or 10s... Once investors realize that then there will be some realizations, on a few levels :), which aren't fun.

One last thing is that Bob is back on the board (hi Bob). If he wants to post he can. It seems I wasn't "seeing" some of the things going on. Your name absolutely should have been by your posts the whole time as it is now.

At any rate I only want world peace ...happy collecting....

i thought he asked you to suspend him......but i assume net54 is against the posting death penalty, you never know if there is there is a thread of DNA evidence or just a thread on Net54 that will exonerate someone.....

[Leon]

i thought he asked you to suspend him......but i assume net54 is against the posting death penalty, you never know if there is there is a thread of DNA evidence or just a thread on Net54 that will exonerate someone.....

Apparently Bob was making a point I was missing concerning the name rule and he was correct about it. So him asking to be suspended was actually just wanting me to enforce the rules as they should have been. A mistake on my part in that matter. If anyone gets into arguments or disagreements on the board the name rule applies. Another day another rookie card..... :)

[begsu1013]

thank you and exactly.

i may be a lot of things, but a snitch and a whiner isn't one of them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Scent of a Woman?

[Beastmode]

thank you and exactly.

i may be a lot of things, but a snitch and a whiner isn't one of them.

Welcome back Bod. This thread got really boring without you.

[Neal]

I think the 63T is actually kinda cool .... I have seen worse rookies. But I do agree that the 64T is his best.

[orly57]

I believe the Rose rookie is the same photo that is on his 64 card. Amazing how a little cropping changes the appearance.

I would say it is a whole lot more than "a little cropping." The rookie has a mini-photo of his neck-less face set in that red dot on a yellow background. The 64 shows that nice Reds uniform with a backdrop and the AllStar Rookie trophy (and um, his neck). Lets face it, Rose isnt known for his good looks, so a face-only portrait isnt a great idea.

[Leon]

thank you and exactly.

i may be a lot of things, but a snitch and a whiner isn't one of them.

he snitched and whined about this post :).... LMAO

[begsu1013]

luckey me.