Addie Joss?

[Corporal Lance Boil]

I suppose I should just delve right into the story. Forgive me if time has blurred the details. I can certainly provide more info, but I'm trying to keep this shorter than War and Peace.

About 12-15 years back I purchased what I believed to *maybe* be an Addie Joss autograph on eBay. I say *maybe* because I tried my best to do my research. I had been searching for his autograph for years at that point. I had just been burned on a very poor copy of a Ramly and I was sore. I had not bought many cards then. So I scoured the interweb and found little about his signature. I purchased whatever database it was you could buy from PSA at the time and literally spend a few hours in front of the computer comparing the two. I was somewhat ridiculous with caution, even going so far as to ask the seller for a sample of his handwriting and any info he could give me on where he had acquired it. He was most accommodating, providing not only that, but also a disk of the autographs that had come from the album where this came from. And the backstory, which was nice. He was a consummate gentleman, and I was somewhat horrified to find out he is a member here, as I can say nothing bad about the transaction, nor would I ever ask for a refund.

The newspaper clipping comes from an old ledger in which, if I remember correctly, there were signed newspaper clippings and photos. Originally out of Rochester, NY, maybe. The disk he sent me I can't remember which autographs he pictured, its' an old square Mac disk. I only mention this for completion...apparently they were authenticated. I did ask why he did not send it in for authentication, and was reasonably told that PSA could not unquestionably authenticate a Joss auto...now that I've read virtually everything I could find on the subject, I understand why. He offered a full refund if it wasn't from 1906, which is the pencilled date around the beltline on the photo.

Look, this thing has sat in my possession for 12-15 years (my wife and I disagree) and I am OK with it being fake. It was money spent a long time ago. I will hang it in a place of honor in my office as a gentle reminder, and an homage to great pitcher. If it isn't, well.

Any input is welcome. BTW, I'm having issues with uploading a close-up. Working on it.

Tony

[Corporal Lance Boil]

Here is the closer scan:

[Klrdds]

He was a consummate gentleman, and I was somewhat horrified to find out he is a member here, as I can say nothing bad about the transaction, nor would I ever ask for a refund.



Tony

Frankly I am a bit confused . You say that you were somewhat " horrified " to find out your seller is a member here , but that you can say nothing bad about the transaction . Then why are you horrified ?
Also what are you wanting? An opinion on your Joss autograph as to authenticity or to post it for display purposes ?
As the owner at this time and for the past 20 years of the only accepted Addie Joss full name signature , the one used in Ron K' s book is mine , I can only say that there are 2 accepted signatures of Joss. Mine and a postcard addressed to his son.
Is yours a real Joss ? There is no way to tell positively due to the lack of authentic examples to use as exemplars that are considered positively as his signature .
Also an interesting item is that the Cleveland Indians did not begin their season until April 30 th in 1906 . So where was this piece signed and under what situation ?

[Klrdds]

This topic has been addressed earlier this year in February , I believe .
Please search for Addie Joss Autograph and the thread / posts should come up .

[Corporal Lance Boil]

Ah, let me clarify:

I have posted it for opinions as to whether or not it might be genuine.

I have read all the previous posts, specifically the one from earlier this year and the one from 2012. I thought it would be OK to start a new thread, perhaps I should've just tacked on to an old one.

When I joined just recently I was going to post this and get y'alls opinion, I dug out the letter sent with the item in question and realized it was either someone who posts regularly or a close relative and was concerned, perhaps wrongly, that it might somehow reflect on them if it was just a super-obvious fake. "Horrified" may have been a poor choice of words. I just didn't want to ruffle any feathers and wanted to make sure I made it clear from the get-go that I was very happy with the seller, the transaction, and understood the risk I had taken.

I think your signature is fantastic (!), and have appreciated you posting it for all to see. I see the obvious differences, particularly the obvious "A" and the difference in the "J". I also see similarities, and wonder why a forger would take a risk with spelling "Adrian", as I have never seen a version of that. The Coach's Corner knock-off uses the same "A", but (could be wrong) I think this pre-dates that and very well may have been the template they used for the "A". The image was available on the internet for a year or so after the purchase. But I'm really out of my league here, hence the post to seek opinion.

As to additional information, I can only tell you what I know from the letter. I will paraphrase it for completion's sake, dated March 8, 2003: "The item was removed by the seller from a vintage scrapbook which was purchased as part of an estate sale. It was compiled by a boy in NY and consists of over 350 pages of photographs. A ledger which dates from the 1890's was used to paste the pictures in. Several autographs (about 15) were pulled from the book and sold. Many were sent to 3rd party authentication and passed, while other passed from prominent dealers and were purchased for their collections. This item is guaranteed to date from 1906 or a full refund will be given". A separate note states the name on the ledger was "George Kolo....., Rochester, NY" The full name is illegible, per the seller. I know nothing more of its' providence.

Thanks again, any other input/discussion would be most welcome.

Tony