Most Valuable / Desirable Non-Contemporary Cards

[scotgreb]

As a HOF collector I'm pretty biased toward contemporary or "playing-years" cards. I try to avoid non-contemporary issues whenever possible but sometimes use them as placeholders until I'm able to add a suitable replacement -- or where a contemporary issue is simply not possible.

A 1948 Leaf Ruth in PSA 9 just sold for $91,000 at Memory Lane. The Babe was long removed from his playing days by 1948. I just don't understand the appeal of this card.

Two other quite valuable such cards are the 1934 Goudey Lajoie and the 1950-51 Toleteros Josh Gibson. These two make a little more sense to me, especially the Gibson, as he has essentially no contemporary issues.

What are your thoughts on the desirability of non-contemporary cards and what other valuable examples are present in the hobby?

Scott

[Snapolit1]

I generally agree that I want contemporaneous, and the market puts a premium on it, but that Ruth card is pretty iconic. Guy who bought it might have no idea Ruth was dead by the time it issued.

[ullmandds]

to me...these cards are not at all desirable.

[nat]

Yeah, I have no interest at all in non-contemporary cards. In fact, I find myself looking down at sets that include lots of them. (1940 Playball, I'm looking at you.)

But whatever. People buy reprints as well. If you like them I'm not going to complain. I don't really mind bids going to cards that I'm not going to bid on.

[pokerplyr80]

I am also not a fan and was surprised by the price of the Ruth sale. The 1940 Playball set was mentioned and the Joe Jackson card comes to mind as another expensive card that doesn't interest me at all.

[packs]

I like the Ruth card because it's a really nice design and it looks better than a lot of his career contemporary cards. But I still don't think the price is in line for what it is, just like the Joe Jackson Play Ball.

[GasHouseGang]

I agree. If I was going to pay big money for a card, I would want it to be a card issued during his playing career.

[drcy]

The Leaf Ruth is desirable because it's part of the famous and highly collected Leaf set. People are into the entire set as it was one of the first major nationally distributed Post WWII sets. If the T206 contained a Cap Anson card I'm sure it would fetch good prices from people here.

[Mdmtx]

I agree with the op on 2 of his 3 examples. The one outlier to me is the 33/34 lajoie. I would love to have that card. Wanted one since I was a kid. Thought long and hard about trying to play for the album specimen with pencil on the front in the hunt auction, but chickened out. Maybe someday.

[clydepepper]

I also much prefer the contemporary in-career cards. However, the Leaf Ruth and Wagner are my personal exceptions. The Ruth because I believe he is ,to this day, outside normal hobby rules. The Wagner because it shows him pulling a chaw thereby debunking forever the theory that the T206 was rare due to his dislike of tobacco products.

Neither player had enough attractive (or affordable) contemporary in-career cards for me, anyway.

My Babe is a beauty...but, not my only Ruth card

230578

230579

230580

[Eggoman]

While I would RATHER have a contemporaneous card or Ruth (or whomever), when I bought my Leaf Ruth, I did so at a time when I could NOT afford a '33 Goudey.

Still not sorry that I own one!

Just my 2 cents...

[Pilot172000]

So I stepped outside of my comfort zone and bought a 48 Leaf Ruth card! I'm extremely excited as I have always wanted a Ruth. While I prefer a 33 Goudey, they are so much more expensive and out of what I usually collect. For the record, while Contemporary cards are of course more desirable, one of the great rarities of the hobby is a non-contemporary card in the 33 Larry Lajoie. I don't think anyone here would mind owning one at least for a little while.

Ps. Who is the Ruth Expert here. I have questions about my new card and the Internet has not provided answers.

[bobbvc]

[QUOTE=clydepepper; The Wagner because it shows him pulling a chaw thereby debunking forever the theory that the T206 was rare due to his dislike of tobacco products.
[/QUOTE]
That's actually a fact not a theory. There is a letter from Wagner to a sportswriter from 1909 documenting it. Also a "Baseball" magazine article from 1912 documenting it as well. (forgot the month, sorry). Wagner always chewed and drank beer but otherwise was a bit of a heath nut and had a disdain for cigarettes in particular. Either way, did not want to promote smoking to kids via his picture in cigarette packs. There are 4 very good biographies written on Wagner, I think they are all still in print.

And, please excuse the soapbox, but a personal pet peeve of mine (I've been collecting over 40 years) is when people bring up the "fact" that the 1948 card "proves" what Wagner thought or did in 1909.

Back to the topic at hand, 50 years post Major league career and still a great and not inexpensive card.

[Pilot172000]

Just finished a Cobb Biography Sunday and immediately went looking for a Wagner Bio but couldn't find what I thought was a good one so I settled for a Tris Speaker book instead.

[bobbvc]

This one's good--
http://www.amazon.com/Honus-Wagner-Baseballs-Flying-Dutchman/dp/0786418117/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1463629709&sr=1-1&keywords=honus+wagner

This one too and Bill is a cool guy as well--
http://www.amazon.com/Honus-Life-Times-Baseball-Hero/dp/1571670424/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1463629709&sr=1-9&keywords=honus+wagner

This one is very good and there are others....
http://www.amazon.com/Honus-Wagner-His-Life-Baseball/dp/1587263084/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1463629709&sr=1-7&keywords=honus+wagner

[Eric72]

The T205 Addie Joss is (obviously) from after his playing days and is still a nice card, in my opinion.

[Steve D]

The T205 Addie Joss is (obviously) from after his playing days and is still a nice card, in my opinion.



Actually, the T205 Joss is "career contemporary". The set was issued in 1911, and Joss' final year in the majors was 1910. Even PSA considers cards issued the year after the player's final year, to be "career contemporary".

To not consider the T205 Joss "career contemporary", would be like considering the 1973 Topps Roberto Clemente to be the same, since Clemente died Dec 31, 1972.


Steve

[scotgreb]

Even PSA considers cards issued the year after the player's final year, to be "career contemporary"

Not to nit-pick your comment [Steve] but that is not completely true -- as I've been down this road in great detail with PSA. Your comment is correct for player sets but not for HOF sets, i.e., the 1973 Clemente is included in his Master Set composite but would not be acceptable toward the Restricted (playing years) HOF Registry set.

I believe that PSA makes the exception for the player sets because they often show the career stats and not because they consider them contemporary issues.

Admittedly, PSA seems pretty inconsistent with this policy. I've offered to review and "clean up" the stated playing years associated with the HOF Restricted registry but that offer fell on deaf ears.

Scott

[clydepepper]

Bob- I thank you for the debunking of my contemporaneous debunking.

I need to kick myself in the rear as two of my many Baseball biographies are of Mr. Wagner himself - and I have let the 'travels and tragedies' of life get in the way of finally reading them.

I will try not to voice any more 'facts' if I know of any evidence to the contrary.

Keep in mind that the newly published Cobb biographies 'debunk' a lot of what most of us have long accepted as fact.


Anyway, the Goudey Lajoie is clearly the most 'valuable' non-contemporary card...just based on how few were printed.

As far as what is the most desirable, well that's really up to the individual collector (good idea for a poll?) - The Leaf Ruth is mine.


-Raymond


That's actually a fact not a theory. There is a letter from Wagner to a sportswriter from 1909 documenting it. Also a "Baseball" magazine article from 1912 documenting it as well. (forgot the month, sorry). Wagner always chewed and drank beer but otherwise was a bit of a heath nut and had a disdain for cigarettes in particular. Either way, did not want to promote smoking to kids via his picture in cigarette packs. There are 4 very good biographies written on Wagner, I think they are all still in print.

And, please excuse the soapbox, but a personal pet peeve of mine (I've been collecting over 40 years) is when people bring up the "fact" that the 1948 card "proves" what Wagner thought or did in 1909.

Back to the topic at hand, 50 years post Major league career and still a great and not inexpensive card.