View Full Version : 1956 Mantle Advice Needed Sgc 96
Delray Vintage
05-02-2016, 11:11 AM
I bought an SGC 96 1956 Mantle over 5 years ago. I see the PSA 9 price just went through the roof in REA, so is it worth trying to cross to PSA? I do not have much experience crossing over as I never sold any of my cards and was not concerned about which holder I had it in. Does PSA usually agree with SGC on the 9 level? Now that we are talking many thousands the issue is what normally happens to SGC 96 when sent to PSA?
Peter_Spaeth
05-02-2016, 11:15 AM
I bought an SGC 96 1956 Mantle over 5 years ago. I see the PSA 9 price just went through the roof in REA, so is it worth trying to cross to PSA? I do not have much experience crossing over as I never sold any of my cards and was not concerned about which holder I had it in. Does PSA usually agree with SGC on the 9 level? Now that we are talking many thousands the issue is what normally happens to SGC 96 when sent to PSA?
It is unlikely to cross as a general proposition but obviously a more informed opinion could be given if you posted a scan of the card.
jfkheat
05-02-2016, 01:43 PM
A few months ago I crossed a SGC 96 1954 Red Heart Dog Food card to a PSA 9. As Peter said, post a scan for a better opinion.
James
pokerplyr80
05-02-2016, 01:55 PM
I suppose a 56 Mantle is pre Vietnam War at least. With the huge difference in value I believe it would be worth the grading fees to take a shot. Unless there's some obvious flaw or the card is too off center.
bobbyw8469
05-02-2016, 02:01 PM
A few months ago I crossed a SGC 96 1954 Red Heart Dog Food card to a PSA 9. As Peter said, post a scan for a better opinion.
James
Left in the case or cracked out?
jfkheat
05-02-2016, 02:07 PM
Left in the case or cracked out?
Left in the case. I sent in two SGC graded Red Heart cards for cross over, an 8 and the 9. Both crossed to the same as SGC had graded them. I listed minimum grades of 8 and 8.5 on the form. Both cards were in the SGC holder when PSA received them.
James
Delray Vintage
05-02-2016, 02:13 PM
Thanks guys, I have the card in the vault so do not have a scan handy. I guess I was not looking for a Net54 grade, just the general experience crossing over from sgc to psa. Does PSA act objectively when receiving the SGC card, as an SGC 96 should cross? It is kind of ridiculous to even think of this but these mantle collectors seem to pay much more for PSA. I see many SGC mantles that are gorgeous at sgc 80 or 84 but they go so much less than PSA even though they look equivalent. Crazy that someone would pay over 50k for the 56 PSA nine and half for the SGC 96.
ullmandds
05-02-2016, 02:16 PM
Thanks guys, I have the card in the vault so do not have a scan handy. I guess I was not looking for a Net54 grade, just the general experience crossing over from sgc to psa. Does PSA act objectively when receiving the SGC card, as an SGC 96 should cross? It is kind of ridiculous to even think of this but these mantle collectors seem to pay much more for PSA. I see many SGC mantles that are gorgeous at sgc 80 or 84 but they go so much less than PSA even though they look equivalent. Crazy that someone would pay over 50k for the 56 PSA nine and half for the SGC 96.
crazy it is!
Peter_Spaeth
05-02-2016, 02:19 PM
Thanks guys, I have the card in the vault so do not have a scan handy. I guess I was not looking for a Net54 grade, just the general experience crossing over from sgc to psa. Does PSA act objectively when receiving the SGC card, as an SGC 96 should cross? It is kind of ridiculous to even think of this but these mantle collectors seem to pay much more for PSA. I see many SGC mantles that are gorgeous at sgc 80 or 84 but they go so much less than PSA even though they look equivalent. Crazy that someone would pay over 50k for the 56 PSA nine and half for the SGC 96.
General experience is not going to say much about your chances of crossing a card of that magnitude in the holder.
pokerplyr80
05-02-2016, 02:31 PM
I forgot to mention if it was graded before SGC implemented their new grading scale the chances are very low. SGC doesn't even guarantee those will cross into new holders. If the flip only has the 96 grade and not the 9 as well it's a long shot at best.
If you think it will get a 9 then send it to PSA in the SGC slab and specify a minimum grade of a 9. If you crack it you risk not getting that grade from PSA and getting a lower grade from SGC - not to mention two grading fees.
vintagetoppsguy
05-02-2016, 02:44 PM
If you submit a card in person (i.e. a show) do they let you talk to the graders? In other words, if he submitted it for crossover at a show and it didn't cross over for whatever reason, would someone tell him why not?
pclpads
05-02-2016, 02:57 PM
If you think it will get a 9 then send it to PSA in the SGC slab and specify a minimum grade of a 9. If you crack it you risk not getting that grade from PSA and getting a lower grade from SGC - not to mention two grading fees.
What he said. My view of SGC is that the greater a card is o/c, the higher the grade. :D SGC has a blind eye to centering. Doesn't apply with PSA. So, unless your 96 is 50-50 all around on both sides and no flaws, getting an even cross ain't gonna happen. Don't pop it out, just send it in in the SGC slab for a like x-over. That way, if it fails, you still have your 96.
Delray Vintage
05-02-2016, 03:19 PM
It has both the 96 and 9.
ullmandds
05-02-2016, 03:22 PM
how's the centering Bob?
pokerplyr80
05-02-2016, 03:31 PM
It has both the 96 and 9.
Thats good at least. As someone else mentioned just send it in the case with psa 9 minimum grade requested. At only a few hundred bucks to pick up 25k or more in value it only has to work 1 in 50 tInes to make sense. I'm no expert but I'd say your chances of crossing it are greater than 2%.
Delray Vintage
05-02-2016, 04:46 PM
found front image on mile high site where I acquired it
GasHouseGang
05-02-2016, 04:51 PM
That card is beautiful, and nicely centered. Submit it in the SGC holder and ask for the minimum grade you will accept. It looks like it should cross to a PSA 9, but it's a crap shoot.
Stonepony
05-02-2016, 05:37 PM
That card is beautiful, and nicely centered. Submit it in the SGC holder and ask for the minimum grade you will accept. It looks like it should cross to a PSA 9, but it's a crap shoot.
+1
ullmandds
05-02-2016, 05:40 PM
sure looks like a 9 to me!!!
hangman62
05-02-2016, 07:50 PM
Oh yes..break it out..no doubt
CMIZ5290
05-02-2016, 07:56 PM
Oh yes..break it out..no doubt
Absolutely not, dont break it out thats crazy. Submit it in the holder with a minimum grade request....
pokerplyr80
05-02-2016, 07:59 PM
Oh yes..break it out..no doubt
I hope this guy was joking. Awesome looking card by the way.
ullmandds
05-02-2016, 07:59 PM
I hope this guy was joking. Awesome looking card by the way.
i think he meant submit it...not necessarily break it out!
Joshwesley
05-02-2016, 08:44 PM
So you can take a holdered SGC card and send it to PSA and request a minimum grade?
If you send them an SGC 50 and PSA thinks it's a 1..... Can you ask them to abort mission and send it back in the SGC holder?
Bestdj777
05-02-2016, 09:01 PM
So you can take a holdered SGC card and send it to PSA and request a minimum grade?
If you send them an SGC 50 and PSA thinks it's a 1..... Can you ask them to abort mission and send it back in the SGC holder?
They don't break the card out of the holder unless it meets the minimum requested grade. So, if it is not a 9, PSA is leaving it as is and just mailing it back in the SGC holder untouched.
begsu1013
05-02-2016, 09:14 PM
hadn't read the entire thread, but
here's a formula i tend to stick to:
1. submit in holder for a cross. be sure to designate a 9 as minimum grade.*
2. do not expect it to cross the first, second or third time.
3. after the 3rd strike, try a minimum grade of 8.5
4. repeat.
5. once/if it crosses submit for a bump a couple of times.
i would not advise cracking anything out of that magnitude.
have had several nice examples cross/bump using this formula.
it does carry some significant consideration in submittal fees, but the eventual landing of a 9 will most definitely recoupe any and all resources and then a whole lot more.
tell me how southern italy was and send some limoncello and a post card.
* this is very important. if you do not mark a 9 as minimum grade, they will crack it out and grade at whatever they seem fit. as long as you mark a 9 as the MG then your card will stay encapsulated in the sgc holder.
begsu1013
05-02-2016, 09:29 PM
i'd say he has a good shot, eventually.
so long as the back is a-ok and there are no surface issues. the 56' is notorious for having small residue-like stains, so check carefully.
these surface issues which we cant detect via scans are the primary reasons people scratch their heads.
a simple scratch, knick that can only be seen w/ a properly lit, tilted angle could hold it back.
beautiful card, btw.
begsu1013
05-02-2016, 11:33 PM
also, forgot to add
at this submission level, usually the grader will leave little stick it notes on the holder where the imperfection that holds the grade back is located indicating why.
one of the things i do appreciate that they do.
glynparson
05-03-2016, 04:21 AM
I would take the chance, will cost you about $700 to cross it over.
Joshchisox08
05-03-2016, 04:28 AM
I would take the chance, will cost you about $700 to cross it over.
Why or how is that?
gnaz01
05-03-2016, 05:23 AM
Why or how is that?
Multiple resubmits
jhs5120
05-03-2016, 06:39 AM
Multiple resubmits
Actually, it'll be $700 per submission attempt. That's the PSA fee for cards worth over $10,000.
aro13
05-03-2016, 07:40 AM
I think it is worth the crossover. My only question would be why did Mile High not submit it to PSA for crossover if it is worth so much more in a PSA holder.
xplainer
05-03-2016, 08:51 AM
I think it is worth the crossover. My only question would be why did Mile High not submit it to PSA for crossover if it is worth so much more in a PSA holder.
OP bought it five years ago.
ullmandds
05-03-2016, 08:55 AM
WOW!!!!! $700 for the submit?!?!?!?
So if one is not current/up to date on SMR values...or values in general and submits a card. Is that submitter less likely to get a higher grade if they've undervalued their submission...whether intentionally or not????
jhs5120
05-03-2016, 09:06 AM
WOW!!!!! $700 for the submit?!?!?!?
So if one is not current/up to date on SMR values...or values in general and submits a card. Is that submitter less likely to get a higher grade if they've undervalued their submission...whether intentionally or not????
I don't believe there is any significant bias between submission tier and grader outcome. I've seen $20 cards become $5,000 cards under standard bulk submissions with a $100 value cap.
If PSA charged $50 per review for a $25,000 card, the owner will submit it 50 times just to see if they can get a bump. In my opinion it's a sort of luxury tax to help prevent market manipulation. There are very few $10,000 raw cards on earth, so this fee structure essentially only affects resubmitters.
ullmandds
05-03-2016, 09:27 AM
I don't believe there is any significant bias between submission tier and grader outcome. I've seen $20 cards become $5,000 cards under standard bulk submissions with a $100 value cap.
If PSA charged $50 per review for a $25,000 card, the owner will submit it 50 times just to see if they can get a bump. In my opinion it's a sort of luxury tax to help prevent market manipulation. There are very few $10,000 raw cards on earth, so this fee structure essentially only affects resubmitters.
OK...well has anyone been contaced by a TPG'er afer a submission...to be notified that they have dramatically undervalued a submitted card(s) and that they will have to pay a higher fee if they want the card graded?
CMIZ5290
05-03-2016, 09:49 AM
The card certainly looks very sharp and it's well centered. As an alternative,you might want to consider trying to get SGC to bump it to a 98, especially if you can do it in person.
begsu1013
05-03-2016, 09:58 AM
OK...well has anyone been contaced by a TPG'er afer a submission...to be notified that they have dramatically undervalued a submitted card(s) and that they will have to pay a higher fee if they want the card graded?
yes that does happen, pete
but has to be completely unrealistic original submission level.*
like submitting a card w/ a value of $14,999+ at the $7 level.
you will also be posed about the return shipping insurance level if your card bumps.
and on the rare occasion I have heard about them actually raising the submission price if the card does bump after the fact. I do not know if this is 100% accurate, but have heard about 2 instances a while back.
* but they do that before the card is even graded. while it is getting logged.
Peter_Spaeth
05-03-2016, 10:06 AM
I think it is worth the crossover. My only question would be why did Mile High not submit it to PSA for crossover if it is worth so much more in a PSA holder.
Who says they didn't try?
So they'll check to see if it meets the minimum grade while it's in the other holder? Considering that there is minimal (or, if you're being cynical, no) difference between an 8.5 and a 9, is that even something that they can do? Like, can you get proper magnification on the sides of the card to check for bumps etc., while it's in the holder? I mean, I guess the answer is yes, but man...
What would they do if you sent them something graded by a really sketchy grading company? The kind of place that sometimes grades fakes. If you put a minimum grade on it they'd need to authenticate it without holding it, and so, e.g., without being able to check to see if it's the right card stock. Would they refuse to grade it, and if so on what grounds?
Delray Vintage
05-03-2016, 01:07 PM
Bought the card in 2010 and doubt the price difference between PSA and SGC was large. After all it was a $6000 card so maybe PSA 9 was 6500. Maybe they tried but doubt it was worth the effort in 2010.
glchen
05-03-2016, 03:00 PM
OK...well has anyone been contaced by a TPG'er afer a submission...to be notified that they have dramatically undervalued a submitted card(s) and that they will have to pay a higher fee if they want the card graded?
Yes, I submitted this card at the under $5K level. PSA called me, and told me I had to pay at the under $10K service level.
hangman62
05-03-2016, 03:08 PM
Oh no doubt its worth trying..for 700 bucks or so ? why not
pokerplyr80
05-03-2016, 03:11 PM
So they'll check to see if it meets the minimum grade while it's in the other holder? Considering that there is minimal (or, if you're being cynical, no) difference between an 8.5 and a 9, is that even something that they can do? Like, can you get proper magnification on the sides of the card to check for bumps etc., while it's in the holder? I mean, I guess the answer is yes, but man...
What would they do if you sent them something graded by a really sketchy grading company? The kind of place that sometimes grades fakes. If you put a minimum grade on it they'd need to authenticate it without holding it, and so, e.g., without being able to check to see if it's the right card stock. Would they refuse to grade it, and if so on what grounds?
Thats the trade off. It's harder to examine the card in a holder and it's less likely to get a bump. But there is too much risk for most to crack a card of this caliber out. If they can't determine the card will meet your minimum grade requirement, or even authenticity PSA will return the card to you in the same holder you submitted it in.
HRBAKER
05-03-2016, 06:09 PM
$700, wow - does the increased grading fee get your more eyes or a more expert grader? Or is it just participation in the secondary value of the card? Don't give me the blah blah blah about how it is about insuring a more valuable card against loss or damage on the premises.
CMIZ5290
05-03-2016, 06:43 PM
Once again, I'm not an SGC fan, but his best option for improvement with least possible expense, might be to try and bump the SGC grade.....Card quite possibly could be an SGC 98 with a little luck...
Touch'EmAll
05-03-2016, 06:45 PM
Talk to PWCC and ask them if they would want to try crossover for you on their nickel. And have a predetermined deal that if it does cross to PSA 9 you will sell it through their auctions. Just an idea - worst they say is no thanks.
Otherwise I wouldn't try it on your own for $700. - ouch! But if you do gamble, make sure centering is near perfect with no tilt cut. And I wouldn't risk if it has a natural rough cut boarder.
drmondobueno
05-03-2016, 06:47 PM
Who says they didn't try?
True. Ask the AH....
OK...well has anyone been contaced by a TPG'er afer a submission...to be notified that they have dramatically undervalued a submitted card(s) and that they will have to pay a higher fee if they want the card graded?
When I found out they were charging $700 for a $10,000 card, I questioned what is so special/different about a $10,000 dollar card compared to a $9,000 dollar card or less?
I believe it was answered above, but I initially thought PSA, seeing your good fortune also wanted a piece of the action?
Just curious, do any of you see either of these cards costing me $700 dollars U.S. ($1000+ CdN) to get these graded?
begsu1013
05-03-2016, 08:59 PM
$700, wow - does the increased grading fee get your more eyes or a more expert grader? Or is it just participation in the secondary value of the card? Don't give me the blah blah blah about how it is about insuring a more valuable card against loss or damage on the premises.
yes to just about all.
more informed grader.
a hellavu lot faster service. usually same day.
notes as to what held it back.
the notion of sending it to an auction house to have them submit is a pretty good idea though. kudos there.
not sure pwcc would do it considering their "certified high end" program. however, I do not know that as fact and basically speaking outta my @ss there.
but the auction house submittal is still brilliant nevertheless.
Peter_Spaeth
05-03-2016, 09:08 PM
Once again, I'm not an SGC fan, but his best option for improvement with least possible expense, might be to try and bump the SGC grade.....Card quite possibly could be an SGC 98 with a little luck...
How do we know? We haven't seen the back or looked at the corners under a loupe. The card looks great from the front scan, but other than the guy who has it in hand, it's all speculation.
Bestdj777
05-03-2016, 09:18 PM
Irv, given the value of your Mantle, it would only cost you $85.00 to have PSA grade it, plus shipping both ways. Not sure the value on the Mays, but it should cost more than the Mantle to grade. You might even be able to squeeze it in at a lower price level.
pokerplyr80
05-03-2016, 09:52 PM
Irv, given the value of your Mantle, it would only cost you $85.00 to have PSA grade it, plus shipping both ways. Not sure the value on the Mays, but it should cost more than the Mantle to grade. You might even be able to squeeze it I at a lower price level.
This sounds right. Declare the Mantle's value at 4,900 and the Mays at 1,900. Grading fees will be 85 and 40 plus shipping both ways. If those were my cards I would get them out of those cases right away and would sumbit them to PSA. Good luck either way.
How does one go about getting the less informed grader, pay less?
yes to just about all.
more informed grader.
a hellavu lot faster service. usually same day.
notes as to what held it back.
the notion of sending it to an auction house to have them submit is a pretty good idea though. kudos there.
not sure pwcc would do it considering their "certified high end" program. however, I do not know that as fact and basically speaking outta my @ss there.
but the auction house submittal is still brilliant nevertheless.
Stonepony
05-04-2016, 07:39 AM
Are submission sources NOT blinded to the grader? If no, please explain.
begsu1013
05-04-2016, 07:46 AM
How does one go about getting the less informed grader, pay less?
by sending subs to bccg or pro grading....
by sending subs to bccg or pro grading....
This city is in California already, home of PSA. I think it might be where the less informed graders are...
and I should add, I have no issue with PSA and most of my valuable cards, in my current collection, are in PSA holders as that is how they came :)...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City
.
begsu1013
05-04-2016, 08:07 AM
.
rjackson44
05-04-2016, 08:17 AM
agree with pete
Irv, given the value of your Mantle, it would only cost you $85.00 to have PSA grade it, plus shipping both ways. Not sure the value on the Mays, but it should cost more than the Mantle to grade. You might even be able to squeeze it in at a lower price level.
This sounds right. Declare the Mantle's value at 4,900 and the Mays at 1,900. Grading fees will be 85 and 40 plus shipping both ways. If those were my cards I would get them out of those cases right away and would sumbit them to PSA. Good luck either way.
Thanks for the info guys.
Was hoping you'd all say my Mays would cost me $700 but that was wishful thinking! ;)
I know the slabs are a bad idea, and when I originally read about them back in January when I joined this site, panic set in and I checked them.
Thankfully I didn't screw them down any tighter than I had too back then as when I unscrewed them, both cards slid easily inside them.
I also never laid them flat or on top of one another. They were stored on their sides only.
I am going to bite the bullet and likely get them slabbed soon, but in the mean time, I think I am still going to remove them and place in penny sleeves/top loaders or purchase some Pro Mold one screw vintage holders.
Thanks again for the input/replies. :)
Tao_Moko
05-04-2016, 08:08 PM
hadn't read the entire thread, but
here's a formula i tend to stick to:
1. submit in holder for a cross. be sure to designate a 9 as minimum grade.*
2. do not expect it to cross the first, second or third time.
3. after the 3rd strike, try a minimum grade of 8.5
4. repeat.
5. once/if it crosses submit for a bump a couple of times.
i would not advise cracking anything out of that magnitude.
have had several nice examples cross/bump using this formula.
it does carry some significant consideration in submittal fees, but the eventual landing of a 9 will most definitely recoupe any and all resources and then a whole lot more.
tell me how southern italy was and send some limoncello and a post card.
* this is very important. if you do not mark a 9 as minimum grade, they will crack it out and grade at whatever they seem fit. as long as you mark a 9 as the MG then your card will stay encapsulated in the sgc holder.
And people continue to pay for the grade? Evidence of an extremely flawed system if what you say actually works. Not to derail the thread on tpg bashing, but c'mon!