Question on T205 Green Borders

[BobC]

I've never heard of T205 cards where the gold paint on the border never got applied but, is that something that did occur, and if so, how rare is that? I know the gold paint easily chips off but, I've never seen one where there was absolutely no residual gold still showing. I was looking to acquire one of the tougher variation cards and though I don't have it in person to scan and share, it appears that the entire border is just a dark green color with absolutely no evidence of any gold flake ever having been applied. I know the T205 set has been reprinted but, I thought the borders on those were always more of a gold color and not a flat, dark green color, which makes me think it isn't a reprint. The card is not in perfect shape and does have a lot of wear and tear but still, I would think there should be some small. minute amount of gold on the borders to show it is authentic. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

[nebboy]

There are a few old threads regarding green boarder t205s. Also more than a few theories as to the boarders came that way or gold wore off or faded overtime.

I'm in the camp that they are faded, the under print color is yellow. If you check out some off center or misprints you will see some examples of this.

Love to heard more debate on the subject, also show your new purchase when you get it. Thanks

[BobC]

Thanks, I didn't realize there might be some old threads on that topic. I'll see if I can find them. As for the border color fading, it doesn't look like this is a case of the gold border having faded. The gold had a rather distinctive, raised feel to it from the paint. This border is very smooth, just like any other color printed on the card itself. As I said, it seems like there was never any gold applied to it all, or you would think there should have been some small residual evidence of the gold having been there at one time at least. I'll see if I can post once I have it in hand. Thanks.

[asoriano]

I'm in the camp that they are faded, the under print color is yellow. If you check out some off center or misprints you will see some examples of this.



+1

Here's a cool one I picked up recently at a card show (apologies for the crummy iPhone pic):

http://i66.tinypic.com/34o1tec.jpg

Does it look similar to this example?

[asoriano]

<a href="http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=200680&highlight=green+borders" >Green borders thread

[BobC]

Thanks, I found that thread about green border T205s from 6 years ago myself and found it quite enlightening. I was initially worried about the lack of any gold on the border of this Wilhelm "suffered" variation that I just got but, after reading through that old thread I'm not as concerned anymore. In fact, it seems to fit a pattern that all of the green border T205s had in that they all seem to be in poor shape. Plus, it had the light green background on the card itself, which a lot of the green bordered T205s appear to also exhibit.

I also found it very interesting that one of the questions Ted Z originally was asking about in that earlier thread was to see if these green border T205s were perhaps limited to only one specific tobacco brand but, as was shown via responses in that thread, that turned out to not be the case. Well here is a Hassan ad-backed T205 with a definite green border, and no evidence of there ever being any gold flake applied to it at all, to add to the list of possible green bordered T205s.

I also noticed in that earlier thread there was speculation as to what may have caused there to be such T205s lacking the familiar gold flake border. One hypothesis was that the last of these T205s may have been printed later in the run, even into 1912, and that there may have been no gold added due to either a cost issue or possibly just running out of the gold flake paint. I'm not sure as to the history of the Wilhelm "suffered" variation and whether or not there is any proof or speculation that the correctly spelled version was thought to have been printed first, and then something happened to the die whereby the "r" in suffered was gone and no longer printed on the back of the card in line 18 for all the remaining cards, or if the error was what was initially printed on all the Wilhelm cards and it was only at the very end of the print run that someone noticed and corrected the error, and then printed the corrected version for just the Hassan brand before the entire print run was then shut down.

Another alternative theory could be that the gold-less cards were possibly some prototype run, and that after the initial start with the Hassan backs, the die for Wilhelm card somehow lost the "r" in suffered and no one ever noticed or bothered to correct it. This doesn't seem as plausible though since a majority of the green bordered T205s appear to be with Sweet Cap and Piedmont backs. One would think there would be a lot more Hassan backs with just green borders if this theory was the case.

Probably can never be proved or disproved 100% but, if anyone has any other thoughts on how, or even if, a green bordered Wilhelm variation card fits into the story and how seeing a green bordered version of it could possibly help to explain how cards actually came to exist, it would be interesting to hear. Thanks.


http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=229338&stc=1&d=1461938026http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=229339&stc=1&d=1461938108

[asoriano]

Nice card, I was an underbidder.

[BobC]

Thanks, I'd been looking for one without breaking the bank and it is actually not in too bad of shape, especially considering the price I got it for.

[Leon]

Thanks, I'd been looking for one without breaking the bank and it is actually not in too bad of shape, especially considering the price I got it for.

I love those kind of cards. Nice pick up!!

[BobC]

Thanks Leon, I am very happy with it.

I am surprised no one chimed in on the question I had about the green border on this card and if it could possibly shed some light on where/how the green bordered T205s came from. If you go back to the thread from a few years ago that another poster added a link to, I thought this might generate some discussion about some of the theories put out in that thread. Probably too many people burnt out from all the auction activity recently, especially REA.

[EvilKing00]

heres one that's about 1/2 gold and 1/2 green



229714

[tedzan]

Here's my greenie......


http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/GreenT205xSchlei50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images//websize/GreenT205xSchlei50b.jpg


TED Z
.