1984-85 Star Jordan XRC 101 Manipulation

[ezez420]

I wanted to get some takes on the 1984-85 Star Jordan Card XRC 101. Maybe there is a clear reason, but it seems that the market for this card is being extremely manipulated to an almost ridiculous point. I have never seen a card go from a few thousand a year ago, to <$7000 in December 2015 to almost $20000 in April 2016. I am referring to the Beckett 8.5s out there. There are plenty of these out there. Although Jordan is the best of all time this card is from 1984, highly counterfeited and does not go up 3 fold in a 4 month span. This is not a high end Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle Rookie.

[Bored5000]

You may be right that the surge in prices of the Jordan Star 101 is just price manipulation (or a PWCC phenomenon). I know the shilling/price manipulation charge has been leveled against the stratospheric rise in prices of some of the rare '90s Jordan inserts from a few years ago.

But I also think the prices of the Star 101 are finally catching up to where they should be relative to how "rare" that card is. I know the card is not rare compared to most pre-war cards, but that is still an iconic card, debatedly his true rookie card. It doesn't sell anywhere close to prices of high grade iconic cards of Ruth and Mantle. PSA alone has graded nearly three time as many '52T Mantles as total Jordan Star 101s have been graded, and look what has happened to the prices of '52T Mantles over the past 2-3 years.

IMO, the Jordan Star 101 has moved more to where is should be price-wise compared to his 86 Fleer card. PSA alone has graded over 14,000 'Jordan '86 Fleers (including 233 PSA 10s) compared to 452 total Jordan Star 101s graded by Beckett.

To me, the really crazy thing is that the 1997 Topps refractor reprints of the Jordan Star 101 card routinely sell for $200-250 at auction.

I get the point you are making. It is kind of amazing where the Jordan Star 101 has gone lately price wise. It may indeed all be manipulation. But the sold listings at $12-14,000 on eBay in recent months for 8.5s have all been BINs. I dunno, maybe the auction price for that card really is $20K right now in a Beckett 8.5.

[JustinD]

These to me are waiting for a crash, but I feel the misinformation out there on the later printings has finally died and this is now recognized by collectors as Jordan's true RC and not a silly XRC.

Even in a crash situation I do not see any graded nice examples dropping below 2500 ever again. However breaking the 10k barrier is unsustainable.

If you have one, sell it now and replace in 3 years.

[mmier118]

I feel that the card is finally catching up to what people are willing to pay. I have one, and at these prices I'm not even close to being interested in selling. I view this card as my generations 1952 mantle. It had been described as a "unicorn" in the 90's. I remember the first time I saw one and was amazed. It was an $800 card in the 90's when I first saw it and I think it got as high as $2500 or so back then. It got beat up when the Shop at Home scandal broke and is just now regaining it's footing as Jordan's premier rookie card. I'm sure that a large majority of the population is tucked away without the intent of ever coming to market again, that's why it is taking higher and higher prices to pull them out of peoples collections. Is it a bubble? Who knows, but I'd rather ride the wave down then bet I can replace my Star 101 Jordan cheaper than they are now in 3 years.

When I got back into collecting the two big ticket cards I really wanted were a 1933 Goudey Ruth and the Star 101 Jordan. I'm sure there are other "kids of the 90's" that are getting back into collecting cards and that these two will be high up on the list of premier cards to obtain.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How does this get a 9 grade on corners?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-STAR-101-Michael-Jordan-XRC-BGS-8-5-NM-MT-subs-8-9-9-5-9-5/231912945651?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D36462%26meid%3D2500a2ceedab4a5f873da78d9038 d1d1%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D1721 70036737

[Peter_Spaeth]

These to me are waiting for a crash, but I feel the misinformation out there on the later printings has finally died and this is now recognized by collectors as Jordan's true RC and not a silly XRC.

Even in a crash situation I do not see any graded nice examples dropping below 2500 ever again. However breaking the 10k barrier is unsustainable.

If you have one, sell it now and replace in 3 years.

That PSA refuses to grade them says something, no?

[HRBAKER]

This generation's Mickey Mantle?
Maybe but STAR is not Topps and basketball is not baseball.
Jordan is Mantlesque though, maybe more than Mantle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The 101 is also not an attractive card IMO -- Jordan's face is a blur really. I don't see how these values last if the major grading service won't even touch it.

[HRBAKER]

The 101 is also not an attractive card IMO -- Jordan's face is a blur really. I don't see how these values last if the major grading service won't even touch it.

I agree, I have always thought the STAR sets looked like someone made them in their garage.

[Bored5000]

The 101 is also not an attractive card IMO -- Jordan's face is a blur really. I don't see how these values last if the major grading service won't even touch it.

I'm not sure how much the "not an attractive card" aspect matters at all. It is still the rookie card of the most iconic athlete of the past 30-40 years, probably the most collected athlete in the hobby overall. Being an unattractive card has not hurt the value of Shoeless Joe's E90-1 at all. The second point, I can agree with. The price of Star 101s would really go through the roof if PSA ever started grading them again.

[Bored5000]

The 101 is also not an attractive card IMO -- Jordan's face is a blur really. I don't see how these values last if the major grading service won't even touch it.

Sorry, double post.

[mmier118]

I agree that the 1986 fleer card is a better looking card, but it is not that rare. The Jordan Star 101 is relatively rare compared to demand, like I said in the 90's it was sort of a unicorn. Also It doesn't really bother me personally that PSA won't grade the Star cards, for me it's a non-issue as I prefer BGS graded cards and I understand the reasons that PSA doesn't grade them anymore. I feel that if they really were as counterfeited as the myth's say the pop report would be higher than the 500 or so it's at now. I think that the group of people that are willing to pay the high prices for a Star Jordan feel that PSA is best for Vintage, and BGS does modern best so it's a non issue to them that PSA won't grade them. Just like I'd rather have a Bowman Chrome Trout or Harper RC graded by BGS, the Star 101 graded by BGS is just fine by me. These are all just my opinions so take them with a grain of salt because sometimes my opinions differ from the norm. As an example I don't really see why people are paying as much as a car costs for a 1952 Topps Mantle. It's a great card and I see the appeal but the 1951 Bowman is his RC and if people can justify 40 to 50k for that card why is it so nuts that the Jordan Star 101 can get 10k? In the end they are both just cardboard and the price is set by how much money it takes to get one collector to sell to another at this point.

[ezez420]

It is nuts when a card goes from $6500 to $18000 in 4 months. Is it nuts or manipulation?i think the latter.

[sbfinley]

It is nuts when a card goes from $6500 to $18000 in 4 months. Is it nuts or manipulation?i think the latter.

I don't particularly follow the basketball sector of the hobby, much less this card, but I have heard more than hobby member I respect suggest that PSA will soon begin grading the card (and star issues in general) once again. I doubt that can explain a three fold increase in four months, but then again with some of the price increases I've seen (and paid) nothing would surprise me at this juncture.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If the 101 becomes generally accepted as his RC, does that devalue the Fleer which then becomes a third year card?

[aro13]

but I have heard more than hobby member I respect suggest that PSA will soon begin grading the card (and star issues in general) once again.

That would be major news in the basketball card world. It would certainly help the value of major HOFers like Barkley, Drexler, Thomas, Olajuwan RC's.

[mmier118]

Wow hadn't heard that but if PSA starts grading Star cards, that would explain the big jump in prices.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wow hadn't heard that but if PSA starts grading Star cards, that would explain the big jump in prices.

And how would all these buyers know this? Sounds like rumor mill stuff to me.

[JustinD]

It does not bother me in the least that PSA will not grade them, it actual looks bad on Psa in my opinion.

The facts are there from very solid sources that star did not reprint the 101 and in all reality the ultra modern collectors of post 84 seem to prefer bgs anyways.

I would never buy raw as the counterfeiters are on this this Rose rookies in the 80s, but I have no qualms at all with a bgs copy.

I think you are on to something though, if psa grades these the 86 will plummet. The myths are the only thing holding this down from matching the 86 values.

[aro13]

I think you are on to something though, if psa grades these the 86 will plummet. The myths are the only thing holding this down from matching the 86 values.

The Star Company values for the major rookies have already exceeded Fleer particularly the Jordan.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The Star Company values for the major rookies have already exceeded Fleer particularly the Jordan.

One could buy five Fleer Jordan 8s for the price of one Star these days.

[sbfinley]

And how would all these buyers know this? Sounds like rumor mill stuff to me.

It's pretty much now accepted within the community that the myth of Star Company reprinting the Jordan from the original plates is just that, a myth. The original print run was between 3,000 and 8,000 copies. BGS, the only top TPG that will grade or authenticate the issue, had graded a grand total of 462 copies. PSA won't grade the issue because they stated once upon a time that a reprint from the original plates would be indistinguishable from the original. I feel safe to assume that if they were printed in mass at a later date, exceptionally expensive, indistinguishable, and only graded by Beckett - the population listed would be bit more only 20%-30% of the original printing.

The only reason PSA is not currently grading the card is that they haven't for so long. They also bow to pressure of collectors fairly often. I've seen them grade a Nolan Ryan newspaper cutout for a collector. When they then added it to the registry collectors went nuts because it was some random cutout from a random newspaper in the mid-70's. Within a month it was taken off the registry, no longer graded, and wiped from the population reports. The calls for this card to be graded are getting constantly louder and this combined with the fact it's relatively easy to spot a fake lead many to believe it will be soon.

[ezez420]

Yes it sounds like rumor stuff on PSA grading these. Probably like the one that is graded a PSA 8 up there. Also funny how the two sales were at $18000 yet another 8.5 sells for $14500. More convinced then ever couple people manipulating this card to show bullsh*t comps.

[Bored5000]

One could buy five Fleer Jordan 8s for the price of one Star these days.

That is why I still think the Star card is still a bargain relative to Jordan's '86 Fleer. PSA alone has graded over 30 '86 Fleer Jordans for every Star 101 that has been graded.

[scooter729]

On a similar note, does anyone have any thoughts on the other Jordan cards to pre-date the '86 Fleer?

The '85 Merchante is one I find intriguing - PSA only has 36 total graded between the two back varieties, so it is much scarcer than even the Star card. But the picture is pretty unappealing, and it's a European issue that isn't widely known.

Compared to the others, it seems very cheap - PSA 6-7's have sold in the $500 - $700 range, which is obviously much lower than the Star or Fleer, for cards much rarer.

Any thoughts? (Not mine pictured - lifted from VCP)

[ezez420]

a rather poor choice of a card. I wouldnt buy to see the back of Jordans head.

[Peter_Spaeth]

a rather poor choice of a card. I wouldnt buy to see the back of Jordans head.

The Interlake is much better than that and an 85 issue.

[Bored5000]

As far as early Jordan cards go, my favorite is still the Nike Jumpman promo card -- more than the Fleer or the various Star cards or the Interlake or the Prism/Jewel. I know the Nike promo card is not worth a lot, since there are tons of them around and they are not officially NBA licensed. But I love the Nike card because that is where the Jordan Jumpman logo started and how it became such an iconic logo.

Example of a Jordan Nike promo card for those unfamiliar with what I am referring to (not my card):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Nike-Promo-Flight-School-Michael-Jordan-ROOKIE-RC-PSA-8-5-NM-MT-PWCC-/351704830921?hash=item51e33dd3c9%3Ag%3A1dYAAOSwiyl XCrPJ&nma=true&si=ueHdqUjpj66mol%252BG2XBfuMGaeJM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Bored5000]

A Beckett "9" of the Star 101 closed at $46,500 at Mile High yesterday.

http://milehighcardco.com/1984_85_Star__101_Michael_Jordan_BGS_9_MINT-LOT44242.aspx

[sniffy5]

I've never seen a clearer case of someone buying the holder and not the card with that BGS 9 that sold for 46k.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Beckett seems very inconsistent in its centering grades to me. Most 101s I have seen like that get an 8 which means the card can't grade higher than an 8.5 (I think).

[Peter_Spaeth]

I've never seen a clearer case of someone buying the holder and not the card with that BGS 9 that sold for 46k.

That's what the money folks do.

[1952boyntoncollector]

i paid 19 dollars for a pair of 1985 canvas jordans, didnt wear them ever, and sold them on ebay for 750 instead of throwing them out...lots of age on them, creases showing the foam etc....so if someone is paying that for shoes ...the sky is the limit on cards..