Josh gibson mexico card 1959 ebay

[richardcards]

tried winning card even though I never heard of this card.
It was for Josh Gibson mexico card "la afacion de el biesbol" set
never heard or seen bid up $59 card sold for $375.
Is this card real or fake any thoughts.
thanks richard

[richardcards]

pic

[Leon]

No idea but here is a link..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOSH-GIBSON-Baseball-1959-MEXICO-CARD-Negro-League-Mexican-League-/162030532448?hash=item25b9c5b760%3Ag%3AjFUAAOSwsN9 XBZSy&nma=true&si=WszDVKpcwGBZTIALeXuPKl8YGZ4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

.

[Snapolit1]

interesting. Doesn't appear to be selling any other cards. Lots of record albums.

[Kenny Cole]

There were 10 or 15 cards listed. They all sold earlier this evening.

[richardcards]

thank u

[shernan30]

Really neat card. :cool:

[richardcards]

I wish i could have won but
Out of budgt noticed its really tiny
1.25X1.60"
must be really tiny

[JustinD]

I was watching that, but really had my doubts on the authenticity.

I need far more evidence to have gone over the 25 dollar mark. If someone has info on these cards I would love to know more.

[packs]

Would a post-career issue from 1959 be that much more valuable than the Laughlin card printed a little over a decade later?

[richardcards]

The toleteros rookie is post career and worth tons.
Never seen this card or any info on it.

[Rookiemonster]

Looks like a news paper or magazine cut out .

[ullmandds]

Looks like a news paper or magazine cut out .

ya...or something!

[pawpawdiv9]

kinda reminded me of the 48 blue tints. Maybe off a milk carton?? We all know about the water down there in Mexico.

[packs]

I guess that is true about the Toleteros card and that card wasn't issued too much earlier than this one. It's a high quality card though as opposed to this one. It's also part of a widely distributed set.

[richardcards]

I searched high and low for info this card set
La aficion de el biesbol and found nothing.

[Republicaninmass]

Expensive fantasy piece


Possibly

[Cozumeleno]

There are some sets in the Standard Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards simply called 'Dominican Republic'. The book doesn't even have much information or a complete checklist, but I believe this is part of those sets.

This card looks very similar, but not exact, to these. The 1950 set in particular has the same type of images, and as the seller describes in his listing, was printed on very thin paper. It also says they were printed in blue, red, and green, so that seems to match up with this one, which has blue ink. Also like this one, those have blank backs.

My guess is that it was produced by the same manufacturer and was just a different year. The only problem is the book states that the manufacturer is unknown. The book lists 1950, 1958, 1959, and 1966 sets. While the 1959 image is not exact to this one as well, the book mentions that all years are speculative. This one could either be 1959 or a different year, but I believe it is by the same company. The book says they believe the cards were either strip cards or printed on packaging of some sort. The strip card theory seems to jive with the card's cut style. The size of this one is smaller than the ones listed, but it could be trimmed or just cut very short if it was a strip card.

As to the value, the book lists stars from those sets mostly $50 - $100 in VG condition. The most expensive ones listed in those four sets are Willie Mays and Sandy Koufax at $200.00 each.

If I can scan an image of this later, I will.

[Cozumeleno]

Not a good image since I took this one from online, but here is a photo from the 1950 set along with a description if you can read it.

[ullmandds]

the image quality is far superior on the DR set vs the mexican one...it looks suspicious to me.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Big difference in size from the DR issues, I have seen many of these in person. Most likely cut-out from a Latin Baseball magazine of some sort, of which there are many. If so, no value then...... Buyer(s) of the Gibson, Dihigo and Dandridge most likely someone with cash to burn and willing to take a shot on a potentially rare item with a big upside, if authentic.

[richardcards]

I have some those domican different size
Typewriter letters would be ok if from the 1920s?

[Cozumeleno]

I have some those domican different size

Oh, okay. Yeah, if you've seen them in person then you would know the difference. By the description of paper type, ink, blank back, number/name format, they sounded like the same manufacturer to me. But I've never seen any of the Dominican ones to compare them up.

I knew the size was different but figured it could have been a smaller issue (the book only knows of ones printed in those four years, so I wondered if there were others) or trimmed. But who knows.

[Kenny Cole]

Yeah, nothing like the Dominican sets. I too have seen those in person. I also have some. Ryan could provide far more information than I can, but there is really not much comparison between those sets and the cards from the purported Mexican set that were offered. The card stock looks similarly poor, but that's about it.

[ullmandds]

id buy this from that seller!

[ullmandds]

ok...and this!

[Kenny Cole]

I'm sure that's because you are a collector of awesome records irrespective of what language the artist is singing in. Just interested in the melody, right :)

[richardcards]

I like mexican music especially the corridos.

[ullmandds]

I'm sure that's because you are a collector of awesome records irrespective of what language the artist is singing in. Just interested in the melody, right :)

actually...im a bongos kinda guy!!!!

[Kenny Cole]

It's all about the music, as it should be. Always. Nothing wrong with that. :)

[richardcards]

Simon

[Leon]

What would she be graded? AUT (hopefully trimmed:))?


ok...and this!

[sbfinley]

If this were CU a moderator would have just been executed.

[frankbmd]

What would she be graded? AUT (hopefully trimmed:))?

Leon, there's a big difference between AUT (trimmed) and AUG (augmented). But I always told my patients, if they were interested in a numerical grade that a pre-op submission was advisable. With either the AUGs or the AUTs you can always find the scar if you are a professional grader.;)

[Sébastien]

Monday on Ebay I bought 3 Mexican cards of Sylvio Garcia, Alfred Pinkston and Burnis “Wild Bill” Wright from the set identified as the 1959 La Aficion En El Beisbol. Personally, I was not really attracted to the Dihigo, Dandridge and Gibson cards. Not only because in 1959 they were no longer active players, but because in my view we tend to exaggerate the status of these players simply based on the fact that they are enshrined in Cooperstown and, as a consequence, their cards are often overpriced. At the same time, great players that will most likely never be elected to the Hall of Fame are underestimated. For example, who can tell me without doubt that Dandridge was a better infielder than Sylvio Garcia, Perucho Cepeda, Milito Navarro or Sammy Bankhead. As for Gibson, I have the impression that he was primarily a slugger and have my own doubts on his overall skills behind the plate as a catcher. Therefore, even if I have enough money, instead of collecting items of Gibson I would by far prefer by collecting cards of amazing catchers and managers like Julio Rojo and Quincy Trouppe. My points here is not to say that I would not purchase cards of Gibson or Dihigo, but I would never take a shot on suspect cards for these players. However, I decided to take a chance for the cards of Garcia, Pinkston and Wright despite my doubts on the authenticity. I was also interested by the card of Alonzo Perry, but I was outbid in the last seconds by the guy who purchased the Dihigo, Dandridge and Gibson cards.

Despite my doubts, I finally decided to pull the trigger on these cards based on the following considerations. First of all, to this day, most Mexican issues are largely unknown and very scarce, therefore, the fact than none of us know these cards is not a surprise. However, the claim that they belong to a set issued by La Aficion makes sense. La Aficion is an old Mexican sports paper still distributed nowadays, it has recently been purchased by Grupo Milenio. The fact that cards are paper cuts is not suspect but consistent with the time, actually most latin cards from the 40’s and 50’s are paper cuts and they are not less valuable because of that. For example, would any one disregard a card of Buck O’Neil from the 1946-47 Almanaque Deportivo?

Many of you refer to Dominican issues from the 50’s in order to make assessment on the authenticity of the Mexican cards in question. To be honest, I do not see the point. The quality of pictures on many vintage Dominican cards is in fact pretty low, much lower than the pictures we can see on the present Mexican cards. It seems to me that, unlike Dominican issues from the early 50’s and Mexican issues from the late 50’s, Dominican cards from the late 50’s and early 60’s are not paper cards, but cardboard cuts. Moreover, Dominican and Mexican cards are usually not the same size, the Dominican cards part of my collection issued in 1950 are paper cuts the same size as the Puerto Rican Toleteros or Denia. In my view, the fact that the Mexican cards in question measure 1.25” x 1.60” is just another indication that they might be authentic. In December 2015, I purchased a Mexican card of Leon Kellman from a set identified by the seller as 1958 Ases Y Estrellas Del Beisbol (which still need to be authenticated): the dimensions of that card are also 1.25” x 1.60”. Indeed, it is quite small, but not as small as some Cuban issues like Mallorquina. Obviously, there is no relation between the size and the value of a card. How much one would agree to pay for a Mallorquina card of Larry Brown?

The second reason why I was interested in these cards is related to the players represented in this set. Before this auction, I have never expected to get a vintage card of Burnis “Wild Bill” Wright, also a legendary Negro Leaguer. Like a friend says: collecting old latin baseball cards is a lotery, you never know what you will get. My maximum bid for Wright’s card was $300, and I got it for the ridiculous price of $30, seriously! Can you imagine how much such a unique item may worth if authenticated and graded by professionals. I also got a card of Sylvio Garcia, one of my favourites, and believe me I would never let a vintage card of him away. Seriously, have you seen the picture of him on the card, it is just awesome, he looks like a bum ball player straighten out of Rikers Island. But to be honest I was very surprised that it sold for a higher price than the Dihigo and Dandridge cards. At these prices, I should have tried to get these cards as well. Finally, I also got a potential vintage and unique Mexican card of the giant outfielder Al Pinkston, this guy from New Orleans was one the most predominant players in Mexico during the 50’s, it might be a tremendous addition to my collection if authentic.

I will definitely send these cards to SGC for authentification, but so far in my view, they are not that suspect. In any cases, if they are not authentic, I will just send them back to the seller and rely on Ebay protection in order to get refund. Before I purchased the cards, I asked myself a question: If still alive, what would Richard Merkin have done, let potentially unique cards Negro Leaguers away? I don’t think so, he would take a chance and act like a predatory collector with crazy bids. I am afraid some of you missed an opportunity, do you remember the 1945 Mexican Album sold on ebay few years ago? I am very confident that these cards are authentic, but I will contain my enthusiasm until the cards are authenticated by SGC. Before that moment it would be highly appreciated to have opinions from expert collectors like Al Jurgela (also a fan of Pinkston), Cesar Lopez and Ryan Christoff.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Based on past experience, SGC will not touch them since no real info has been documented. They won't deem them real or fake and won't encapsulate them. Please let us know if anything different happens.

The three guys you mentioned would definitely be the best to advise on authenticity.

[Cozumeleno]

Based on past experience, SGC will not touch them since no real info has been documented. They won't deem them real or fake and won't encapsulate them. Please let us know if anything different happens.


That was my thought, to be honest. I have no doubt that they could have significant value, but without any known documentation as to what they are, any value is up in the air. There was obviously a lot of action on them based on those auctions, but unless some sort of documentation is released, I didn't see how SGC would authenticate them.

To the poster, please keep us informed on the status once you get word back from SGC. I'm very interested to know how it turns out.

[Sébastien]

To be honest, it will be the first time I send cards to SGC. Thank you to let me know about the issue, I thought they might be able to date the paper and the ink used to print the cards in order to make an assessment based on age. Or at least do some archives research in old La Aficion papers. I will send the cards and we will see. Actually, it is logical to not expect too much for $10 per card. Any way, I will let you know what is going on with these mysterious cards.
Maybe we should consider establishing a new grading company totally dedicated to Latin baseball and negro league collectibles.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To be honest, it will be the first time I send cards to SGC. Thank you to let me know about the issue, I thought they might be able to date the paper and the ink used to print the cards in order to make an assessment based on age. Or at least do some archives research in old La Aficion papers. I will send the cards and we will see. Actually, it is logical to not expect too much for $10 per card. Any way, I will let you know what is going on with these mysterious cards.
Maybe we should consider establishing a new grading company totally dedicated to Latin baseball and negro league collectibles.

Have you contacted the three guys you mentioned? That would seem the better place to start, as was stated by Phil.

[swarmee]

Welcome to the board Sebastien.

[RCMcKenzie]

To me, the grading companies are there to determine the condition of cards...i.e- "is it an 8 or a 9? Is that a ding on the corner?" I think that's mostly what the graders are trained to do. I don't see the graders as card gurus who have knowledge above the collectors themselves.
If for example I found an uncatalogued n173, I'd want to hear what the other OJ collectors thought about it, and it would make no difference to me what any of the grading companies opinions were. Rob

[aljurgela]

Based on past experience, SGC will not touch them since no real info has been documented. They won't deem them real or fake and won't encapsulate them. Please let us know if anything different happens.

The three guys you mentioned would definitely be the best to advise on authenticity.

Hey Sebastien.... I would tend to agree with Phil on these... do as much research as you can PRIOR to sending them in. I have convinced them to grade a lot of cards that they did not previously touch, but I have also failed a bunch of times. The difference? The amount of documentation. Copies of the albums, other cards from the sets, etc. can provide information. Maybe it will take years!

I think that you have a great value on these cards (risk / reward), and if I had seen them, I would likely have made you pay a bit more! :)

Good for you and part of the fun of collecting is the searching and research.

Best of luck to you and I hope that they are authentic for your sake as well as the general hobby!


Al

[grenuche]

Any interest in selling the Gibson?