Kenny Cole
03-29-2016, 10:34 PM
With Leon's permission, I am going to post an email thread that I had with the seller of a Negro League photograph that I won. After I won it, before I paid for it, the seller cancelled the auction. I asked why. Here is the thread, which I have included in its entirety (except for one thread in which the seller said he'd get back to me later) so that everyone can draw their own conclusions. All I will say is that the seller chose the auction venue, chose not to list the item with a reserve, and chose not to consign it with an auction house that might have publicized it better. With that said, here it is. I will warn everyone that it is long.
(Me)
I am getting an email indicating that you canceled this order. Would you please advise what is going on? Thank you.
Kenny Cole
(Him)
americanlaureate:
Mr. Cole, Good Evening.
Two things caused me to cancel the sale of the panorama. The first and most obvious was the poor result that the photo brought, which was ironic in view of the number of folks that were excited about the image and that contacted me..some even asking that I delist the item and sell it to them privately.
Before i talk about the weightier reason that influenced the cancellation, I wish to tell you how much I enjoyed reading your generous forum postings about the Negro Leagues - it is obvious from these postings that you are an incredibly intelligent, passionate and honorable guy.
The second reason I cancelled the sale was the small part of one forum thread that bemoaned the lack of spirited bidding of top notch Negro League items and the role that private "core collectors" played in keeping the records of those sales, as well as the items sold, private. Further along in the forum there was a short but pungent discussion that cast doubts about my items and over me.
Mr Cole, as you know, the world of collectors is small and narrows quickly as it climbs to better items and higher prices. I do not think that the panorama had a fair showing and i do think that that there was some undue discussion and possibly collusion among buyers that prevented it from reaching even a moderately fair price.
I am sorry for what disappointment it has caused you. Jimmy Allen
(Me)
Well, as you are doubtless aware, seller's remorse is no better excuse for failing to honor a deal than is buyer's remorse. I am not going to even dignify your "collusion" assertion with a response except to say that I won the item on a snipe bid that was substantially higher than the ending price and, given the way eBay currently works, I don't even know who the other bidders were.
I won the item fair and square. Had you received more than you felt the item was worth, I very seriously doubt that you'd feel so unhappy for the buyer that you would refund them what you believed the excess to be. If I had won the item for $10,000 and then backed out of the deal for no legitimate reason, I suspect you would feel somewhat like I do know. In any event, I will be leaving you a negative. I will also be contacting eBay and informing them that the reason you cancelled the deal was that you were unhappy with the ending price. I will inform all of my friends, the "core collectors" of negro league items that you referred to, of what happened and how lacking in integrity you appear to be. If I can think of anything else, I will do that as well. I can't prevent you from breaking your word, breaching your contract, and keeping the item you promised to sell, but I will certainly do what I can to make you regret having done those things.
Kenny Cole
(Him)
Dear Mr. Cole,
I am grateful to eBay for the opportunity to conduct business. I believe that eBay will see how my actions protect them as well.
Mr. Cole, my reputation as an honest and professional dealer directly impacts my ability to make a living. I would ask that you show caution.
I do not wish to respond in kind to your message. I sympathize with your disappointment at not purchasing a “top notch” item for a fraction of its value. I can tell you that I have no seller’s remorse. I was, as I stated, simply perplexed.
In the eyes of the law, a red flag is sent up when an object is offered for sale at a fraction of its value; the theory is that the buyer should know that the object is stolen. I look with the same suspicion upon the situation at hand, though, in reverse. The red flag went up when the auction for an irrefutable “top notch” photo closed at a fraction of its value. It raised justifiable suspicion that something was afoul. In such a case, it is not the seller’s motives that are called into question, but the buyer’s.
You are, Mr. Cole, well situated to write about the private sales that are made among your friends, the core collectors, (as you described them on a Negro League public forum), and the effects those unrecorded sales have on other collectors. The “core collectors” join to keep prices down; to soften the marketplace, and shake the confidence of collectors. Then they acquire great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay; honest collectors ( those outside the loop of core collectors) who lose confidence in the market and shake the confidence of collectors. As a consequence, they acquire many great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay.
(Him, continued in the next email)
and shake the confidence of collectors. As a consequence, they acquire many great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay; unsuspecting honest collectors ( those outside the loop of core collectors) who lose confidence in the marketplace, and, of course, eBay is denied honest profits as a diminishing number of objects are listed. Don’t take my word for it; search eBay for real vintage Negro League items. How many would one find, 2, 3 ?
Colluding buyers, when they do not prevail in their schemes, are typically, acutely bitter and vengeful. Your words document the collective, (one might say collusive) campaign you have initiated to harm me - so much for not working in concert. These are your words:
“I will inform all of my friends, the "core collectors" of negro league items that you referred to, of what happened and how lacking in integrity you appear to be. If I can think of anything else, I will do that as well. I can't prevent you from breaking your word, breaching your contract, and keeping the item you promised to sell, but I will certainly do what I can to make you regret having done those things.”
Your concession that you know all the “core collectors” of Negro League items and that they are all friends, and that you are in contact with them underscores the illegitimacy of your claim that you were an innocent, anonymous bidder. How believable is it when you claim, “I don't even know who the other bidders were.?”
I have every right to protect myself against individuals that engineer the outcome of sales. I do not have to surrender to illegal activity and threats to my livelihood.
Again, I am grateful to eBay for the opportunity to conduct business and appreciate the measures that they have put in place to protect both the buyers and sellers.
Sincerely,
Jimmy Allen
Orig. Panorama Photo Negro League, Washington Potomacs, Hall of Famer Ben Taylor
Current Bid: $1,102.89
Auction ends Mar 27, 2016 18:00 PDT
Bids: 35
I thought it was only fair to let folks know how this seller does business without embellishing or throwing my slant on what occurred. As I said before, you can draw your own conclusions about his statement that he was an honest seller. I certainly have drawn mine.
Kenny Cole
(Me)
I am getting an email indicating that you canceled this order. Would you please advise what is going on? Thank you.
Kenny Cole
(Him)
americanlaureate:
Mr. Cole, Good Evening.
Two things caused me to cancel the sale of the panorama. The first and most obvious was the poor result that the photo brought, which was ironic in view of the number of folks that were excited about the image and that contacted me..some even asking that I delist the item and sell it to them privately.
Before i talk about the weightier reason that influenced the cancellation, I wish to tell you how much I enjoyed reading your generous forum postings about the Negro Leagues - it is obvious from these postings that you are an incredibly intelligent, passionate and honorable guy.
The second reason I cancelled the sale was the small part of one forum thread that bemoaned the lack of spirited bidding of top notch Negro League items and the role that private "core collectors" played in keeping the records of those sales, as well as the items sold, private. Further along in the forum there was a short but pungent discussion that cast doubts about my items and over me.
Mr Cole, as you know, the world of collectors is small and narrows quickly as it climbs to better items and higher prices. I do not think that the panorama had a fair showing and i do think that that there was some undue discussion and possibly collusion among buyers that prevented it from reaching even a moderately fair price.
I am sorry for what disappointment it has caused you. Jimmy Allen
(Me)
Well, as you are doubtless aware, seller's remorse is no better excuse for failing to honor a deal than is buyer's remorse. I am not going to even dignify your "collusion" assertion with a response except to say that I won the item on a snipe bid that was substantially higher than the ending price and, given the way eBay currently works, I don't even know who the other bidders were.
I won the item fair and square. Had you received more than you felt the item was worth, I very seriously doubt that you'd feel so unhappy for the buyer that you would refund them what you believed the excess to be. If I had won the item for $10,000 and then backed out of the deal for no legitimate reason, I suspect you would feel somewhat like I do know. In any event, I will be leaving you a negative. I will also be contacting eBay and informing them that the reason you cancelled the deal was that you were unhappy with the ending price. I will inform all of my friends, the "core collectors" of negro league items that you referred to, of what happened and how lacking in integrity you appear to be. If I can think of anything else, I will do that as well. I can't prevent you from breaking your word, breaching your contract, and keeping the item you promised to sell, but I will certainly do what I can to make you regret having done those things.
Kenny Cole
(Him)
Dear Mr. Cole,
I am grateful to eBay for the opportunity to conduct business. I believe that eBay will see how my actions protect them as well.
Mr. Cole, my reputation as an honest and professional dealer directly impacts my ability to make a living. I would ask that you show caution.
I do not wish to respond in kind to your message. I sympathize with your disappointment at not purchasing a “top notch” item for a fraction of its value. I can tell you that I have no seller’s remorse. I was, as I stated, simply perplexed.
In the eyes of the law, a red flag is sent up when an object is offered for sale at a fraction of its value; the theory is that the buyer should know that the object is stolen. I look with the same suspicion upon the situation at hand, though, in reverse. The red flag went up when the auction for an irrefutable “top notch” photo closed at a fraction of its value. It raised justifiable suspicion that something was afoul. In such a case, it is not the seller’s motives that are called into question, but the buyer’s.
You are, Mr. Cole, well situated to write about the private sales that are made among your friends, the core collectors, (as you described them on a Negro League public forum), and the effects those unrecorded sales have on other collectors. The “core collectors” join to keep prices down; to soften the marketplace, and shake the confidence of collectors. Then they acquire great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay; honest collectors ( those outside the loop of core collectors) who lose confidence in the market and shake the confidence of collectors. As a consequence, they acquire many great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay.
(Him, continued in the next email)
and shake the confidence of collectors. As a consequence, they acquire many great items at steep discounts.
Who does this hurt? Not dishonest folks, but honest folks- like me. Honest, good dealers who unwittingly list great material on eBay; unsuspecting honest collectors ( those outside the loop of core collectors) who lose confidence in the marketplace, and, of course, eBay is denied honest profits as a diminishing number of objects are listed. Don’t take my word for it; search eBay for real vintage Negro League items. How many would one find, 2, 3 ?
Colluding buyers, when they do not prevail in their schemes, are typically, acutely bitter and vengeful. Your words document the collective, (one might say collusive) campaign you have initiated to harm me - so much for not working in concert. These are your words:
“I will inform all of my friends, the "core collectors" of negro league items that you referred to, of what happened and how lacking in integrity you appear to be. If I can think of anything else, I will do that as well. I can't prevent you from breaking your word, breaching your contract, and keeping the item you promised to sell, but I will certainly do what I can to make you regret having done those things.”
Your concession that you know all the “core collectors” of Negro League items and that they are all friends, and that you are in contact with them underscores the illegitimacy of your claim that you were an innocent, anonymous bidder. How believable is it when you claim, “I don't even know who the other bidders were.?”
I have every right to protect myself against individuals that engineer the outcome of sales. I do not have to surrender to illegal activity and threats to my livelihood.
Again, I am grateful to eBay for the opportunity to conduct business and appreciate the measures that they have put in place to protect both the buyers and sellers.
Sincerely,
Jimmy Allen
Orig. Panorama Photo Negro League, Washington Potomacs, Hall of Famer Ben Taylor
Current Bid: $1,102.89
Auction ends Mar 27, 2016 18:00 PDT
Bids: 35
I thought it was only fair to let folks know how this seller does business without embellishing or throwing my slant on what occurred. As I said before, you can draw your own conclusions about his statement that he was an honest seller. I certainly have drawn mine.
Kenny Cole