Walter Johnson 1907 Postcard--Wow!

[Hankphenom]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291708391170?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[rhettyeakley]

That is awesome with the 1907 postmark from Weiser!

A true Walter Johnson "Rookie" card!

[Leon]

Great looking postcard. The Big Train never looked so good!!

[shernan30]

That is really cool!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[philliesphan]

absolutely amazing!

Really shocked by the price -- but three people in over $20k-

[h2oya311]

if I weren't closing on a house in April and if I had an extra $25k sitting around, I would have been all over that one! The 1907 postage date is absolutely awesome!

Congrats to the winner...hopefully it's a Net54 member!

[Jobu]

Thanks for posting that Hank, that is incredible. Great PC, great cancellation stamp, the only thing this is missing is a note about baseball on the back. I get visions of someone grabbing a stack of PCs at the general store, paying no mind to the strapping young lad on the front.

[Hankphenom]

Thanks for posting that Hank, that is incredible. Great PC, great cancellation stamp, the only thing this is missing is a note about baseball on the back. I get visions of someone grabbing a stack of PCs at the general store, paying no mind to the strapping young lad on the front.

Amazing to see an item of this quality on eBay, and also that the seller had the confidence and courage to let it run after several questions had alerted them that this was something special. Good for them, and I would say that the gamble paid off handsomely, I'm sure they were shocked by the price. I can't imagine a major sports auction doing better, but you never know, maybe we'll have a chance to find out. How many dealers wouldn't have pulled it from eBay and gone the auction route instead? Not many, I don't think. And wouldn't you love to know who got it?

[Baseball Rarities]

What an important postcard. This looks to be the third (and original) version of the "Weiser Wonder" postcard. I love it that stuff like this still pops up on eBay.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Great postcard, very surprised at how high the price went. When the Novelty Cutlery postcard was believed to be 1907-09 for a while, price never approached anything like that. Rose Co. did bring quite a bit of money though.

Agreed, great job by the seller having the guts to fetch such a big number.

[prewarsports]

That is one of the coolest things I have ever seen!

[GasHouseGang]

The postcard is great, but that price! Wow, I'm totally blown away that it went for that much.:eek:

[slidekellyslide]

Amazing to see an item of this quality on eBay, and also that the seller had the confidence and courage to let it run after several questions had alerted them that this was something special. Good for them, and I would say that the gamble paid off handsomely, I'm sure they were shocked by the price. I can't imagine a major sports auction doing better, but you never know, maybe we'll have a chance to find out. How many dealers wouldn't have pulled it from eBay and gone the auction route instead? Not many, I don't think. And wouldn't you love to know who got it?

The bidding started at $7,999 so clearly he must have known that he had something special.

[Shoeless Moe]

The winner is rolling in E-bucks like Fiddy Cent!

[Hankphenom]

What an important postcard. This looks to be the third (and original) version of the "Weiser Wonder" postcard. I love it that stuff like this still pops up on eBay.

Anybody have a feel for where this would rank on the list of highest prices for an unsigned postcard? Could this be tops for non-negro league? And it's not an example of two bidders driving it way up, there were three willing to pay at least 22K. Makes me wonder if a high-profile auction might have actually done better--how many high-end collectors look at eBay any more? Interesting that of the four variations of postcard I've seen with this image, it's the only one without an identifying caption of some kind, presumably because everyone in Weiser knew who it was. I would assume that the studio that took the photo produced the postcard from negative, based on the clarity of the image. A cousin of mine auctioned the original studio cabinet several years ago and it went for 11K. I'll try to attach a picture of that cabinet.

[Hankphenom]

The bidding started at $7,999 so clearly he must have known that he had something special.

Oh, sure, he did his research, he was looking for what he thought was top dollar. If it didn't move, he could always find a nice auction for it. But I'm guessing he was blown away by the result.

[Bicem]

Price was a good deal compared to almost $8k for what is essentially a 10 year later reprint...

http://www.goodwinandco.com/extremely_rare_c__1907___1910_weiser_wonder_walter-lot27844.aspx

Amazing postcard.

[Hankphenom]

Price was a good deal compared to almost $8k for what is essentially a 10 year later reprint...

http://www.goodwinandco.com/extremely_rare_c__1907___1910_weiser_wonder_walter-lot27844.aspx

Amazing postcard.

That's probably what the seller based the reserve on.

[slidekellyslide]

I would bet that most high end baseball postcard collectors are still looking at ebay because there are still a large number of baseball postcards in postcard collections and estates because most regular folk don't consider postcards as baseball cards which everyone knows are worth millions. :D

[Baseball Rarities]

Interesting that of the four variations of postcard I've seen with this image, it's the only one without an identifying caption of some kind, presumably because everyone in Weiser knew who it was.

Are you considering the cabinet photo the fourth variation of the postcard or is there another version besides these three?

[Vintageclout]

Great postcard, very surprised at how high the price went. When the Novelty Cutlery postcard was believed to be 1907-09 for a while, price never approached anything like that. Rose Co. did bring quite a bit of money though.

Agreed, great job by the seller having the guts to fetch such a big number.

Due to the 1907 postage stamp, this card has ZERO ambiguity with regard to its 1907 origin. Not surprised at all with the price, and I firmly believe its new owner got a great deal in lieu of that March 1907 stamp.

JoeT.

[slidekellyslide]

Due to the 1907 postage stamp, this card has ZERO ambiguity with regard to its 1907 origin. Not surprised at all with the price, and I firmly believe its new owner got a great deal in lieu of that March 1907 stamp.

JoeT.

September 1907

[Hankphenom]

Are you considering the cabinet photo the fourth variation of the postcard or is there another version besides these three?

I thought I remembered seeing the sepia card with a different caption at the bottom, but couldn't find any evidence of it in a Google search, so perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me.

[Hankphenom]

[QUOTE=Vintageclout;1520254]Due to the 1907 postage stamp, this card has ZERO ambiguity with regard to its 1907 origin. Not surprised at all with the price, and I firmly believe its new owner got a great deal in lieu of that March 1907 stamp.

JoeT.[/QUOTE

So the consensus seems to be that 24K was a good deal for the buyer. I must be out of the loop on postcards, that seems like a lot to me, even for such a great card. How many postcards have gone that high, and what are some comparables?

[bcbgcbrcb]

How many postcards have gone that high, and what are some comparables?


1915 Red Sox spring training Ruth, a few different images exist. I believe a couple of private transactions on these exceeded this number.

[botn]

How many postcards have gone that high, and what are some comparables?


1915 Red Sox spring training Ruth, a few different images exist. I believe a couple of private transactions on these exceeded this number.

For an unsigned postcard, this one..http://catalog.scpauctions.com/CIRCA_1908_09_JOE_JACKSON_POSTCARD-LOT10864.aspx. Suspect it would bring far more than 22K if sold today.

[prewarsports]

I am not the only one in the hobby that thinks that Joe Jackson postcard is completely bogus, a cutout from a book or something glued to a postcard back and turned into a baseball card.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Agree with Mr. Yeakley on that Joe Jax postcard.

The 1907 Victor Mills (w/Joe Jax) is a big ticket item though, albeit a team photo. Sorry, I don't have a scan of that one to post.

[botn]

Forgot about this one...

[Vintageclout]

[QUOTE=Vintageclout;1520254]Due to the 1907 postage stamp, this card has ZERO ambiguity with regard to its 1907 origin. Not surprised at all with the price, and I firmly believe its new owner got a great deal in lieu of that March 1907 stamp.

JoeT.[/QUOTE

So the consensus seems to be that 24K was a good deal for the buyer. I must be out of the loop on postcards, that seems like a lot to me, even for such a great card. How many postcards have gone that high, and what are some comparables?

Hi Hank its JoeT and I hope all is well with you. Considering that for years, there has been ZERO resolution with regard to the specific release date of the various Walter Johnson Weiser Wonder post cards (other than the one found with a 1910 postage stamp), this 1907 stamped one is HUGE! It now irrefutably resides as the "Big Train's" earliest known card via its 1907 stamp, and I firmly believe it would have achieved an even higher figure in a major auction. As you know Hank, any level of "ambiguity" is a collector's worst nightmare, and this Weiser Johnson now stands as the TRUE earliest known Johnson cardboard collectible in the hobby...Wow!

As always, best regards,
Joe

[Hankphenom]

[QUOTE=Hankphenom;1520290]

Hi Hank its JoeT and I hope all is well with you. Considering that for years, there has been ZERO resolution with regard to the specific release date of the various Walter Johnson Weiser Wonder post cards (other than the one found with a 1910 postage stamp), this 1907 stamped one is HUGE! It now irrefutably resides as the "Big Train's" earliest known card via its 1907 stamp, and I firmly believe it would have achieved an even higher figure in a major auction. As you know Hank, any level of "ambiguity" is a collector's worst nightmare, and this Weiser Johnson now stands as the TRUE earliest known Johnson cardboard collectible in the hobby...Wow!

As always, best regards,
Joe

Hey Joe,
I'm not arguing with you at all, in fact I would accept your opinion more than just about anyone I can think of, certainly more than mine on vintage high-end stuff. Maybe a dealer did buy it, and we'll see it again in an auction. It would be interesting to know where 24K ranks for a non-signed postcard.
Look forward to seeing you in A.C.
Hank

[GasHouseGang]

I feel we should show copies of what was sold on Ebay, or soon the listing will disappear along with the pictures of what was sold. So, for those who follow this thread later and wonder who all these people named Archive are, here are pictures of the front and back of the postcard sold on March 23, 2016 for $23,557.98.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Just playing devil's advocate here but haven't we questioned the authenticity of some news service stamps on the back of vintage baseball photos before? Does the same possibility exist for a postmark stamp on a vintage baseball postcard?

I wonder if we can track back any previous sales/auctions for this exact postcard based on condition details where back scans are available to ensure that the date stamp appears on previous sale(s) as well?

[ramram]

Just playing devil's advocate here but haven't we questioned the authenticity of some news service stamps on the back of vintage baseball photos before? Does the same possibility exist for a postmark stamp on a vintage baseball postcard?

I wonder if we can track back any previous sales/auctions for this exact postcard based on condition details where back scans are available to ensure that the date stamp appears on previous sale(s) as well?

Well, I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories but, let's run with that a minute. Does anybody else see the horizontal line above the postage stamp and the vertical mark just to the right of it that look like dirt or smudges? Kind of look like the rough edges of an old stamp? Also, how come the stamp marks, the ones that run slightly upward and to the right, in several places on the postage stamp don't run off the stamp anywhere (I'm not talking about the circle date stamp)? Especially the one at the very top.

226071

Rob M.

[shernan30]

Well, I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories but, let's run with that a minute. Does anybody else see the horizontal line above the postage stamp and the vertical mark just to the right of it that look like dirt or smudges? Kind of look like the rough edges of an old stamp? Also, how come the stamp marks, the ones that run slightly upward and to the right, in several places on the postage stamp don't run off the stamp anywhere (I'm not talking about the circle date stamp)? Especially the one at the very top.

Rob M.

Interesting :confused:

I see what you are talking about. Its almost like a canceled stamp was used.

[h2oya311]

Interesting :confused:

I see what you are talking about. Its almost like a canceled stamp was used.

I was thinking the same thing.

I feel like we always have conspiracy theories on this website w/r/t awesome items, but I must admit, I'm hesitant to say with 100% confidence that this was indeed postmarked in 1907.

[h2oya311]

and does anyone recall a day when the post office was open at 6:30pm?? My how things have changed...

[ullmandds]

I was thinking the same thing.

I feel like we always have conspiracy theories on this website w/r/t awesome items, but I must admit, I'm hesitant to say with 100% confidence that this was indeed postmarked in 1907.

its hard to not question authenticity with all the funny business that goes on. While on one hand it seems that just about anything can be falsified these days...taking into account the quality of the ink writing...combined with the stamp and date this postcard looks pretty legit.

[ramram]

Aren't those circle date stamps available out there on the internet? Somebody can put any location and date on it and then stamp the postcard?

Somebody could pull the old stamp off of the post card and then place an appropriate 1907 postage stamp from another postally used item onto this postcard? Would that possibly explain why the marks don't run off of the stamp? There also look like a few other stamp marks on the right side of the postage stamp that don't run off onto the postcard. Just sayin.

Wish there was a better photo of this area -
226072

[ullmandds]

the area under the 10 in the date stamp appears as if something was erased too. I'm sure high magnification of this piece could help determine if there is evidence to question this piece.

[cincicards]

Random postcard from Weiser dated 1906:

226074

226075

[Leon]

My opinion- Card is definitely real to the date. No issue with the stamp. The card is a great, great postcard and was won at a good but not great price. My estimation of market value is 25k-35k, and close to the middle is what I would expect in a big auction...Others will differ :)

ps...when I first saw the card I didn't really figure it was going to go as high as it did....but it did.

[Baseball Rarities]

I had the same concerns when I first saw the postcard, but I did quite a bit of research, including comparing other 1907 Weiser postmarks and RPPC back printings. I have no doubt that it is 100% genuine to 1907. The 1907 Weiser cancellation stamp was very small and would not always extend beyond the stamp. Congrats to the winner. It really is a special postcard.

[ramram]

Yeah, the date stamp looks consistent. So much for the conspiracy. It was a short run. I suppose somebody's gonna tell me there's no Big Foot next.

[Baseball Rarities]

Here is another 1907 stamp.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Good detective work, guys. Just goes to show though that you can jump the gun and get super excited about date stamps. You always need to do your due dilligence to back it up. Glad everything checks out with this one.

[h2oya311]

Good detective work, guys. Just goes to show though that you can jump the gun and get super excited about date stamps. You always need to do your due dilligence to back it up. Glad everything checks out with this one.

ditto! Awesome detective work! And I see that one of the random postcards also had a 6:30pm date stamp. Apparently that was a popular time to visit the post office to send postcards.

[prewarsports]

As a side note, I live pretty close to Weiser and have been there several times. At one point in time (about the time Walter Johnson was there) there were Opium Dens, whore houses and something like one bar to every 30 residents or something! It was a rough town in the middle of nowhere in Idaho and was a big railroad hub, so a tough "old west" town. Many of the original buildings and main street are still there and it is a cool place! If anyone is ever in the area for some weird reason, its a cool place to spend an afternoon!

[ramram]

Amazing that the card Kevin posted above is only ten days after the Johnson postcard was stamped. Has all the same appearances. Top of the "1907" obscured, etc. It also appears that the football shaped portion of the stamp is possibly part of the same operation as the circle date stamp as it seems to always be placed at about the same spacing and with the lines in the same parallel fashion as the circle date stamp lettering. I suspect it was designed to catch both sides of the postage stamp. On the Johnson postcard it apparently just didn't get pressed down hard enough to run off of the postage stamp.

[slidekellyslide]

I deal in postcards pretty extensively...there is nothing wrong with the cancellation on that postcard.

Here are just two random cards I pulled out of a stack sitting on my desk

[Bicem]

As a side note, I live pretty close to Weiser and have been there several times. At one point in time (about the time Walter Johnson was there) there were Opium Dens, whore houses and something like one bar to every 30 residents

Sounds like my kind of town... I mean for the baseball history.

[D.P.Johnson]

Anybody know what the "deal" is with Walter's long-sleeve undershirt??? I mean, the stripes on the right and left sleeves look different. Also, the left sleeve appears "raised" in the forearm area (like he's wearing something under the sleeve)...Just wondering...It's a super cool postcard...

[ZachS]

Anybody know what the "deal" is with Walter's long-sleeve undershirt??? I mean, the stripes on the right and left sleeves look different. Also, the left sleeve appears "raised" in the forearm area (like he's wearing something under the sleeve)...Just wondering...It's a super cool postcard...

The stripes look the same. I think it's just the lighting. It's a small light colored band on each side with a darker color in the center.

The "bump" in the sleeve looks like where the shirt sleeve meets the cuff... just a long-ish cuff.

[D.P.Johnson]

The stripes look the same. I think it's just the lighting. It's a small light colored band on each side with a darker color in the center.

The "bump" in the sleeve looks like where the shirt sleeve meets the cuff... just a long-ish cuff.

Thank you.

[ls7plus]

[QUOTE=Vintageclout;1520254]Due to the 1907 postage stamp, this card has ZERO ambiguity with regard to its 1907 origin. Not surprised at all with the price, and I firmly believe its new owner got a great deal in lieu of that March 1907 stamp.

JoeT.[/QUOTE

So the consensus seems to be that 24K was a good deal for the buyer. I must be out of the loop on postcards, that seems like a lot to me, even for such a great card. How many postcards have gone that high, and what are some comparables?

It won't be too long before Cobb's 1907 Dietsche Fielding Pose and 1907 Wolverine News rookie postcards (especially the portrait, which has already traded hands twice at approximately $11K in Ex) look like a tremendous bargain at that price. I heard at the 2015 National that a Dietsche Fielding Pose Cobb in Ex went for $8K right around that time. Both quite rare, with significance beyond enormous. Postcards are baseball cards like any others--no different at all from Topps without the gum! As someone recently said on this forum, they are "near-sacred relics that enable the collector to connect physically with the game's heroes and traditions." I like to think of them as two dimensional slices of a single moment in a player's three dimensional life and career.

Re the Johnson, the buyer, long-term, got a bargain, IMHO.

May collecting bring you great joy as you hold the very history of the game right in your own two hands,

Larry

[ls7plus]

For an unsigned postcard, this one..http://catalog.scpauctions.com/CIRCA_1908_09_JOE_JACKSON_POSTCARD-LOT10864.aspx. Suspect it would bring far more than 22K if sold today.

Agreed--figure on at least $40-$50K, IMO. Baseball cards connect you to the player and take you back to the time, and that attribute is enhanced with the quality of the visual image of the player. Some of the best of the latter appeared on postcards, versus rather crudely colored drawings/images of the players of early times on regular cards of the same vintage.

May your collecting fare well,

Larry

[Hankphenom]

Any guesses on what the Johnson card would do in a big auction?

[Vintageclout]

Any guesses on what the Johnson card would do in a big auction?

If appropriately marketed, $35/$40K would not surprise me at all....maybe more if a war develops between 2/3 collectors with a "must have" attitude. We've seen it happen so many times before. Bottom line is...find another one with a 1907 cancellation date!

[GKreindler]

Not for nothing, but I'd kill to paint that image!